Genet, are you new? You aren't coming across very well in this post and the fact that you're arguing with mx about this is unbelievable (hence me thinking you're new).
Of course I'm new, posting for about 2 months I guess, though I have been lurking for about 2 years now. Never did an AMA, do you want one I stand by my arguments - I feel for women in abusive relationships, and would not wish that on anyone. I also agree with mx about her particular experience, and don't deny that there are many women in similar experiences as the woman she described. I'm not judging those women or the number of children they had due to circumstances.
However, as mx has clearly described, there are resources for women in abusive relationships to get out and control their reproductive futures. We live in a society that values choice, most people value reproductive choice, and we offer government-funded and privately-funded BC choices for women in need. You can't deny that.
I judge women not like the one mx described, but women who have access to these resources and still continue to have multiple children they can't support. If that makes you dislike me, I'm OK with that.
You clearly don't know much about abusive relationships. "There are resources for women to leave" is at best a vast oversimplification, and at worst, just not true in many cases. Many women in these situations have NO resources of their own - their abusive partner has completely isolated them. Leaving is the most dangerous time in an abusive relationship and can potentially get a woman killed. When you have four children to think about, leaving isn't just calling a hotline and then packing up and leaving.
I'll even acknowledge that just b/c a pregnancy is unplanned doesn't mean it's (a) unwanted or (b) that the parents can't afford to raise that child. I don't judge any parents who have an oops baby but can afford to raise that baby and want and love and care for that baby.
It's the people in the third category that I judge. And it's those people, that have access to BC, have the resources, but still choose not to use them, that I judge.
So maybe you're right. Maybe all the resources and BC in the world won't help some people, b/c some people just don't give a shit and take the risk regardless. How is judgment not warranted there?
So rich families are allowed to have oops babies, but poor families are not.
Shit happens. There is a recent study out showing that most unplanned pregnancies occur when on birth control. The pill is 92% effective in the real world. That means for every 100 women who use the pill for a year, 8 will get pregnant. So even with optimal access to the most common form of birth control, unplanned pregnancies happen.
Have you ever been poor and tried to access reproductive health services? I have. I was living just above the poverty line, with self-paid health insurance that didn't cover prescription drugs or routine care. I got my birth control from Planned Parenthood via their sliding fee scale care. It was a 1.5 hour bus ride in each direction from my house to Planned Parenthood. The first time I went, I was not approved for the sliding fee scale because even though I'd read the requirements online before I went, I didn't have all the income and insurance documentation they needed. When I came back with the rest of my income information, I was approved and paid something like $30 for the visit and $15 for three months of pills, which was a fifth of my weekly take home income. This was a huge hardship, and I didn't already have kids who I had to tote with me or find care for.
Let's not even dive into the problem of how welfare and other programs are set up to make you fail...Good luck with that short term assistance while they better themselves, genet.
Oh, gravy. I just quit my job, and I'm sitting around packing up my office and declaring emails. I literally have nothing but time to debate welfare and welfare reform, and I took a college seminar on the welfare state. I would love to debate it, but I'm going to infer from your post that you're not actually serious.
So you're familiar with the studies on the New Jersey family cap policy that showed that women don't actually have more babies to access more welfare benefits?
Oh, gravy. I just quit my job, and I'm sitting around packing up my office and declaring emails. I literally have nothing but time to debate welfare and welfare reform, and I took a college seminar on the welfare state. I would love to debate it, but I'm going to infer from your post that you're not actually serious.
So you're familiar with the studies on the New Jersey family cap policy that showed that women don't actually have more babies to access more welfare benefits?
Quite, I'm from NJ. I was in early high school when the whole TANF system changed federally, I don't remember when NJ put the cap in place. I'm not at all a proponent of it, as I don't think it has a significant effect on increased contraception use, though I know you can find several studies that show measurable increase.
There are many, many, many flaws with the current welfare system. I am a strong proponent of welfare capitalism generally, but find that, as many critics do, the current system distinctiveness productivity, fosters social stigmas (yes, I said that) and allocates resources ineffectively. I don't know how to change it, I'd lying if I said I did.
I'll even acknowledge that just b/c a pregnancy is unplanned doesn't mean it's (a) unwanted or (b) that the parents can't afford to raise that child. I don't judge any parents who have an oops baby but can afford to raise that baby and want and love and care for that baby.
It's the people in the third category that I judge. And it's those people, that have access to BC, have the resources, but still choose not to use them, that I judge.
So maybe you're right. Maybe all the resources and BC in the world won't help some people, b/c some people just don't give a shit and take the risk regardless. How is judgment not warranted there?
So rich families are allowed to have oops babies, but poor families are not.
Shit happens. There is a recent study out showing that most unplanned pregnancies occur when on birth control. The pill is 92% effective in the real world. That means for every 100 women who use the pill for a year, 8 will get pregnant. So even with optimal access to the most common form of birth control, unplanned pregnancies happen.
Have you ever been poor and tried to access reproductive health services? I have. I was living just above the poverty line, with self-paid health insurance that didn't cover prescription drugs or routine care. I got my birth control from Planned Parenthood via their sliding fee scale care. It was a 1.5 hour bus ride in each direction from my house to Planned Parenthood. The first time I went, I was not approved for the sliding fee scale because even though I'd read the requirements online before I went, I didn't have all the income and insurance documentation they needed. When I came back with the rest of my income information, I was approved and paid something like $30 for the visit and $15 for three months of pills, which was a fifth of my weekly take home income. This was a huge hardship, and I didn't already have kids who I had to tote with me or find care for.
You're totally misquoting me - the third category is people who don't use BC, take the chance, and get pregnant. Not an oops baby, no matter rich or poor. Again, that can suck all around, in any circumstance.
Awkward, cheer up. With Obamacare, no one has to pay $15 for the BC. Services are improving. Access to them may still be difficult for some, but the resources are there.
Yes I do. But I don't ever say anything to the parents, although I think it and may remark to whoever is with me at the time. And it doesn't have anything to do with their economic level and whether they can afford stuff. I just think there's no possible way (even if they have them far apart) they can have enough quality time with each child, and each additional child takes more attention away from the previous ones. Plus it strains resources for the family.
I'm not sure I'd say I "judge" them, but I agree with this. I don't think there is any possible way to give each child the amount of attention they deserve when you have too many kids. I think "too many" is probably well more than 4, though. I'm thinking once you hit 6 or 7 kids maybe? IDK.
My dad comes from a family of 10 and while it is awesome being from a large family like that, I know my dad didn't have a lot of the childhood experiences that I had (no bedtime routine, no regular family dinners, no birthday parties, to name a few) and it was because he was #7 and there were just too many kids to take care of to be able to give as much as I'm sure my grandparents would have liked to to each of them. My grandparents were amazing people who absolutely did the best they could, but they were never able to be present in his adult life or the lives of me and my sisters because there just wasn't enough of them to go around to 10 kids, 10 spouses, and 25+ grandchildren. I mean I wouldn't have been born if they stopped sooner, so I'm glad they didn't, lol. But I think having that many kids is an odd choice and not one I can understand or really even have positive feelings toward.