I think its healthy for children to have a certain level of fear of their parents. Fear of disappointment, fear of consequences, etc. We never got spanked growing up, but I feared my parents. I was scared to get bad grades, get in trouble, etc. without having been spanked. I tried really hard not to get in trouble at school because I was worried what would happen when I got home. I didn't get spanked. But I know I disappointed them. So, the fear of disappointment or consequence is healthy to some degree, I think.
Nope never, and to be honest (flame away) I do judge people who do. It makes no sense and teaches nothing, it's very violent and in-effective. This is one of those topics that enrages me and also make me sad, I think this is such a terrible way to discipline.
DH and I were dating like a few months when I asked him how he felt about this, and I told him right then and there that my future husband would NEVER lay a hand on our children ( no one will for the matter). That is how passionate I am about this topic, I would never marry someone who could hit a child. That's just me and how I feel. There are much better ways to teach a child right from wrong.
I am also wondering what it could achieve as opposed to say, taking away their toys. It seems taking away the toys/not allowing them to do fun things they love for a while would be a much better way of going about it but I have no experience yet in anything besides a 13 month old.
Like if they knew they wouldn't get to watch TV or eat an ice cream for a week for misbehaving and KNEW It would happen because it had been followed through on before, wouldn't that be effective?! I have no idea how the minds of children work though. But I am way more ok with that sort of thing than you are going to get spanked.
I won't spank my children (or dogs). I don't think violence is the way to solve problems. Talking, redirection or removing them from the situation are all better options for my family.
I was spanked very rarely as a child (I don't even remember it, but my parents mention it occasionally). What I do remember was being afraid of the yard stick my parents kept above the basement door. All my dad had to do was point to the stick and my brother and I would behave. I don't want my children to experience that fear.
We were always afraid of my dad though he never hit us at all. All it would take was my mom saying "I'll tell your dad later.." and we'd behave. I think Dads might just have some kind of super power sometimes haha. Maybe its the deep voice. Because the dog also listens to my husband but not me
I think its healthy for children to have a certain level of fear of their parents. Fear of disappointment, fear of consequences, etc. We never got spanked growing up, but I feared my parents. I was scared to get bad grades, get in trouble, etc. without having been spanked. I tried really hard not to get in trouble at school because I was worried what would happen when I got home. I didn't get spanked. But I know I disappointed them. So, the fear of disappointment or consequence is healthy to some degree, I think.
I'm wondering how you get here, I was always afraid of disappointing my parents so I never really did anything wrong. But they never spanked me or even grounded me, yet somehow I still had that fear of disappointment. I need to know how to get to this point with Macy!
Post by creamsiclechica on Jun 4, 2013 15:23:12 GMT -5
Damn pro boards keeps eating my responses!! Thanks, guys! If you try to bring it up with my mom, she only swatted us she says. It's like she has no recollection of how much force she used and how often. My brother got it worse than me, and unsurprisingly, he was arrested for domestic violence for beating his girlfriend. I'm not meaning to imply that if you spank, you're going to have a violent person on your hands, because obviously, my mother did more than spank. I just think introducing violence as an option/consequence is a slippery slope. Lots of studies have shown people enduring violence can have a higher propensity for inflicting it themselves. I find there's so many more options, much more effective ones too.
Post by charlielove on Jun 4, 2013 15:26:39 GMT -5
I guess I should've clarified that I don't want them to be fearful of being hurt by me or DH.
I feel very similarly to musiclover about the topic. I try not to judge because I work with a lot of people who are not equipped with the tools or resources they need to effectively discipline, so they spank. However I don't know how to rectify in my mind educated parents that do the same.
Although I'm not totally against spanking, I am less inclined to do it because of the research that shows children who are spanked are more likely to be aggressive.
However, I came across this paragraph in a paper published by the APA: "In a meta-analysis of 26 studies, Larzelere and a colleague found that an approach they described as “conditional spanking” led to greater reductions in child defiance or anti-social behavior than 10 of 13 alternative discipline techniques, including reasoning, removal of privileges and time out (Clinical Child and Family Psychology Review, 2005). Larzelere defines conditional spanking as a disciplinary technique for 2- to 6-year-old children in which parents use two open-handed swats on the buttocks only after the child has defied milder discipline such as time out." (here's the whole article: www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx)
It's not my thing. I feel like there's other ways to enforce good behavior.
This.
I was spanked a few times as a kid (but only by my parents. If a nanny did it, especially without consulting with them, she was immediately fired.) I had a healthy respect for my parents but I dont think it had anything to do with spanking
If I ever did, which I really dont think I would as I dont agree that it teaches them anything, I wouldnt do it hard at all. But I think hitting models hitting and it just makes them scared of you, which I dont think is positive.
I was spanked very hard as a child. To the point of bruises. My dad's favorite phrase was "I am going to spank you so hard you cant sit for a week!"
I was still 'naughty' and just got good at running with my butt tucked under.
I have tapped (smack is too strong of a word) Thad's hand and I will do it again. There are a few dangerous things in our daily life (our stove gets hot, a wire outside, and TV cords) that he has to learn are definite no no objects. I say no, redirect, say no, redirect. If he continues to touch said objects, I will tap his hand, get down on his level, and say no strongly.
He is completely aware of what no and stop mean. I would never tap/smack for something he didn't know was wrong.
My dh and I will keep spanking on the table for other danger objects. We will talk about them before we ever spank. The road being the main one. I want my child to understand that there are immediate consequences for these types of dangers.
I also put Thad in toddler time out. On my lap for 30 seconds while I repeat no. He is very aware when he is being naughty. You should see the grin he gets.
Oh gosh Cream, I'm so sorry you went through that.
I have spanked in the past and I did the other to Eli. I hate it, but I was at the end of my rope. It had been a rough day and tried time outs, talks, taking things away....no change. I wasn't mad when I did it, but time out has not been working. He peed on Micah and then turned around and peed all over there dresser. WTF?! He got a spanking and then there were no issues the rest of the day. We are moving this weekend and then we'll be at my dad's. It's a calm environment and he is a strong, positive, male role model. My grandfather is great, but he is 75, has COPD, and not a lot of energy. He just yells. I hope I see some changes in Eli's behavior soon. I've never had to spank Micah.
I was abused as a kid and teenager. We don't spank, as a rule.
The only exception we make is for breaking away in a parking lot. That is, quite literally, a life or death situation. My children have to know they absolutely have to hold hands in a parking lot and when crossing the street. If Holden broke away in a parking lot, we would grab her, walk to a safe place, say "You have to get a spanking because you wouldn't hold hands. Parking lots are dangerous." Then, she would get two spankings on the butt, over clothes, open palm. She would then get a hug and another explanation as to why she got in trouble. I may or may not do the same with Sadie. I didn't babywear with Holden, so I didn't have a carrier with me all the time where I could punish her by taking away her right to walk on her own. This time, once she's walking, I'll probably just put her on my back if she decides to be naughty in a parking lot.
I am against spanking if it doesn't follow the rules katfco listed: "...spanking is only appropriate as an immediate discipline tool; although it can sting, it has to be very temporary; it should be phased out as kids respond to less corporal discipline tools; and only the hands should be used."
Holden hasn't been spanked/swatted/etc. since she was two-ish. I do not think that spanking a kid older than three or four is appropriate at all. A kid that age can respond to time outs and "your stuffed animals don't like it when you grab a box of cornstarch and completely cover them and your room with it. They have to get an bath and then they're going in the closet for a few days." I might need to dig up a picture of that particular situation.
We don't spank, and I am against it in general. But I have forcefully removed DS1 from dangerous situations with a fair bit of anger. For example running into the road, I have grabbed his arm and dragged him back. And I have yanked his hand away from sharp things/dangerous things outside, eg. when DH is mowing the lawn or edge trimming. Sometimes there's no other way to do it fast. I regret the violence of the action but at the time I couldn't come up with a more immediate solution.
I was spanked as a child, and all it did was give me really conflicted feeling about being spanked as an adult (in the bedroom, not by my parents!), so in addition to my disinclination to be physical with children, I also think it is an extremely limited parenting resource.
Being slapped for talking back, having my hands smacked for touching my hair, being given Tabasco sauce for chewing my nails--none of it taught me that what I did was wrong, or why I shouldn't do what I had done. It just made me feel (even more) alienated from my parents. Every child is different, and there are some temperaments who might learn from physical punishment, but my experiences make me hope I never slip up and do it with any child of mine.
I got the shit beat out of me almost everyday...even into my adult years. I don't think being spanked is always a bad thing...but I would never take a belt to julian for 20 mins, go catch my breath and return to beating him, or kick him in the face while I'm wearing boots, or punch him in the stomach, or twist his arm until he begs or bend his neck into his lap or punch him in the back of the head or wake him up when he is asleep to pound on him for 2 hours.
Would I swat his butt? sure, will I pull his ear? probably...will I be threatening him with spankings? probably daily. However I will never make my child feel the way I felt everyday...that when he hears my key in the lock he feels the need to run and hide under his bed or flinches when I go to hug him. There is a line...spanking is not super effective in the first place, I think educating your kids on proper behavior is better, but sometimes spankings happen. I don't want to turn into my parents, that's my biggest fear.
This is one thing I feel confident saying I will never do. It is lazy parenting. It can be hard to figure out appropriate consequences and achieving the right level of "fear of consequences" in your child, but that doesn't make hitting them ok. Parenting is hard, but suck it up and figure out an appropriate way to manage behavior.
And everyone used the running into the street example as why they might spank. H ran into the street once (in front of a car!) when he was 2 or 3. My reaction and the way I screamed his name scared the SHIT out of him. I mean, that kid was terrified. There was no need to hit him. He was little, he didn't understand the consequences, I made him aware of the consequences/scared him/let him know the severity, and no hitting was involved.
I don't get the lesson that they learn though. If I do something wrong then someone will physically hurt me? I just don't understand it. I don't see how spanking can lead to better behavior. I see it leading to your kid hitting other people when they do something wrong.
I'm really against it. I've never even hit my dogs and they can be real assholes.
For me growing up it was the fear of the spanking that changed my behavior. Just the same as the fear of disappointing my parents or the fear of time out or toys being taken away. I am on the fence about what we will do, but I do fully expect my child to learn there are things I can do to him that he cannot do to other children. (Like remove toys, time out, making eat their vegetables). Does that make any sense? It is early :-)
This is one thing I feel confident saying I will never do. It is lazy parenting. It can be hard to figure out appropriate consequences and achieving the right level of "fear of consequences" in your child, but that doesn't make hitting them ok. Parenting is hard, but suck it up and figure out an appropriate way to manage behavior.
Devon, I normally really appreciate your outlook on parenting but with all due respect I am not being a lazy parent. I'm fine with people disagreeing with my methods and really I accept side eye from this board too. However, I approach corporal discipline the same way I approach all parenting. I evaluate the kid, the tool, and the effectiveness of the approach. I never needed to be spanked. A stern word made me cry. My kid brother was a runner. No amount of talking, shouting, or time outs worked when he was three. It was dangerous. Spanking gave an immediate and obvious response to his behavior that wasn't a part of his game (winding up my mom.)
I don't just haul off and hit my kid. I say no and redirect him. When he heads towards the open sewer hole again I say no and redirect. When he then giggles and takes off towards the sewer hole again, I say no we don't touch the hole and sit him on my lap. When he gets up and still giggles and tries to get to the sewer hole I say no and tap his hand. I don't see how that is lazy. We can't avoid the sewer hole. I refuse spend my summer inside or to always drive to the park. I firmly believe that he can learn to stay away from that part of our front yard (not that I would leave him alone or unsupervised.) If he didn't respond to the taps, I wouldn't continue. If he responded to a raised voice I wouldn't tap. It isn't my first line of discipline. I don't use it often.
Post by livinreality on Jun 5, 2013 7:12:32 GMT -5
We have spanked DS1, but it is always been with a warning. It is saved for repeat bad offender behavior (as in we have tried time out, toy removal, etc) and life threatening (running away in parking lot). Definitely use only the hand on the bottom lightly.
We have tapped DS2 hands, he was grabbing a hot cup of coffee. He got it but it just made him want the coffee more definitely too young for bottom spankings, we will wait till he can do time outs so at least 18 months I am thinking.
This is one thing I feel confident saying I will never do. It is lazy parenting. It can be hard to figure out appropriate consequences and achieving the right level of "fear of consequences" in your child, but that doesn't make hitting them ok. Parenting is hard, but suck it up and figure out an appropriate way to manage behavior.
I have to disagree that it is lazy parenting. I think my parents used spanking in an appropriate way, and they were in no way lazy. Yes, some people use spanking as the easy way out, but I do no think that is always the case.
This is one thing I feel confident saying I will never do. It is lazy parenting. It can be hard to figure out appropriate consequences and achieving the right level of "fear of consequences" in your child, but that doesn't make hitting them ok. Parenting is hard, but suck it up and figure out an appropriate way to manage behavior.
I have to agree with @thadsrad. Making the blanket statement that all spanking is lazy parenting is pretty judgmental. Not all spanking is the same and not all children are the same. There is research to show that "conditional spanking" is effective and not harmful.
I don't mean to offend anyone at all, and I don't judge anyone else's parenting. For me personally it is lazy parenting. Every single study I have read says it is ineffective. Plus, I have been in soooo many situations where oh my goodness I just want to spank or smack my kid. For me, that would be the easy/short term solution. Finding a way to effectively discipline my child without smacking his hand, etc takes a lot more mental willpower and thought process, and in the end is more effective.
Again, I didn't mean to offend anyone. I think we all know I am pretty non judgey about most things (and having two kids teaches me every day that what works for one kid doesn't necessarily work for others!) But for our family we are passionate against no spanking.