Yes, I do. But I don't like when people use that as an excuse not to fight the addiction at all.
But how do you know when someone isn't fighting their addiction? Trust me from a recovering alcohol and addicts view, the fight is ongoing whether I was actively using or not.
I guess only the addict would know for sure. I have watched my dad struggle with and fight against alcoholism my entire life, and whether he was on or off the wagon, I was proud of him for fighting. His brother was also an addict, who refused any and all advice/help/AA/etc. and died in his 40s.
It's something I struggle w on a really personal level deciding. It actually makes me really happy/ comforted that people believe this. It makes me feel like people that do it aren't just choosing to fuck up their lives along with their families.
They really aren't a lot start when they are young and dumb and then are hooked, or are using it to self-medicate a mental health issue, or as an escape from bad situations. Addicts don't go out and think "hey you know what would be awesome? Getting hooked n drugs/alcohol and screwing up my life and my family"
I don't even really know what you're saying here, but good luck watching this spiral out of control
I'm just using my mom as an example of someone who has breast cancer - something that obvious qualifies as a disease - and is also an addict. And the number of shitty choices and decision-making required in being and maintaining and addiction prevents it from being fairly characterized as a "disease" in the same manner as cancer, heart disease, etc. To me, it feels different b/c it is different. I have such a visceral reaction to the whole discussion that it's hard for me to think about the issue apart from my emotional reaction to it. Also, I'm apparently an asshole and an idiot for feeling this way, so that could also be the problem.
A person in recovery should own their screw ups and be held account ale for them in appropriate ways. That doesn't mean it isn't a disease and that it doesn't control their hinting the same way anorexia do trols its victims thinking.
They really aren't a lot start when they are young and dumb and then are hooked, or are using it to self-medicate a mental health issue, or as an escape from bad situations. Addicts don't go out and think "hey you know what would be awesome? Getting hooked n drugs/alcohol and screwing up my life and my family"
you're right they don't. It's also really hard to feel like you are second best to a drug or alcohol, and wonder if that person is just "picking" it or have a disease.
It is. But know they really aren't and that its OK to call them on that shit and let them know that.
I don't think anyone here has said an addict should not be held responsible for their actions. But when you consider how hard it is for a person who is depressed, anxious, bi-polar, etc., to get about in their daily life, can you imagine how hard it is for an addict?
People who are mentally healthy don't do heroine. They just don't.
The only people who are addicted to drugs are running from something - depression, anxiety, trauma.
I have a looooot of addiction in my family, and I'm convinced.
I am glad to find such an expert on GBCN. To think I could have saved so much money by coming here and having you diagnose me.
I don't care how much addiction you have in your family, until you have walked in my shoes girlfriend, you don't have a fucking clue about addiction. I can guarantee you I am not running from anything, I am an addict and an alcoholic and not afraid to admit it.
Even though I have a few years of recovery, the fight lives on inside of me every day and STUPID fucking statements like this enrage me.
Post by VeryViolet on Jul 16, 2013 21:24:30 GMT -5
I think the other problem with addiction as opposed to other diseases and how people view it is the way friends and family respond and should respond. If someone has cancer you want to help and be there for them. However, when a person has an addiction the best way to help is to not support their disease. Because of that I think that people don't view it as a disease.
I think that addiction is a disease in that it creates a chemical and physiological change within a person's body.
I think there is a high correlation between drug addiction and mental health. I also think there is a genetic aspect to addiction, it clearly runs in families and it shows itself in many different ways - not all addictions are as life altering as others but all are based in the same basic premise - using something (drugs, alcohol, food, video games) as a way to escape the realities in our lives that we don't feel capable of dealing with. Some additions create a stronger chemical and physiological response than others, some are more difficult to manage in terms of continuing to live a 'normal' life, and some are more socially acceptable than others.
also, uh, some people do things that cause cancer. mesothelioma and asbestos. smoking and lung cancer. this doesn't mean it isn't a disease. it doesn't mean these people deserve to suffer. it doesn't mean they don't deserve compassion.
I hear you - and I'm not coming from a place where diseases of the mind don't count, by any means. I guess maybe anxiety, depression seem like issues that happen TO a person, and I think of addiction as an issue that folks bring upon themselves, although that certainly seems a little fucked up once I type it out.
I guess maybe a better way to state my reaction to the issue would be to say that addiction is a disease, but that a person can be held accountable for failing to treat / get a handle on that disease. Does that make sense?
I hear you - and I'm not coming from a place where diseases of the mind don't count, by any means. I guess maybe anxiety, depression seem like issues that happen TO a person, and I think of addiction as an issue that folks bring upon themselves, although that certainly seems a little fucked up once I type it out.
I guess maybe a better way to state my reaction to the issue would be to say that addiction is a disease, but that a person can be held accountable for failing to treat / get a handle on that disease. Does that make sense?
That's different then what it seemed you were saying and I don't think anyone disagrees with that assessment. the same way we might hold a diabetic accountable for not managing their insulin and sugar properly.
I think so. I grew up in an alcoholic home and EXDH is a Rx drug addict. There has to be something in the brain that changes the way an addict thinks. Like those that attempt to dry out. They put themselves through pure hell from withdrawls in order to stop doing something because they hate it that much and want to clean up, essentially having hit rock bottom. Then, after the worst part is over, somewhere in their brain, something tells them that a little won't hurt. Things would be better with just a little. The normal brain does not twist things around like that, and make the worst possible decision seem like it's a good idea. I don't know if that made sense. But healthy people wouldn't put themselves through it again and again. The disease changes the way the addict thinks.
There are people who have massively debilitating mental health issues who refuse medical treatment because they don't like how the meds make them feel.
I can't for a minute believe that most addicts enjoy being addicts. They enjoy the high in the moment because it is their escape from whatever horrible reality they are facing (or feel they are facing). The amount of self-loathing I see in my brothers is excruciating to watch. I pity them and I feel badly that they struggle so much to live healthy, happy, normal lives. It doesn't mean that I don't think they are asses most of the time, I do. But I also feel compassion because I know that deep down, they are really unhappy and broken. And nothing I can do can fix that.
I think the other problem with addiction as opposed to other diseases and how people view it is the way friends and family respond and should respond. If someone has cancer you want to help and be there for them. However, when a person has an addiction the best way to help is to not support their disease. Because of that I think that people don't view it as a disease.
That's a good point.
I think its a disease. Both my parents were alcoholics. After my dads liver failure they quit cold turkey. Up until then, it was extremely difficult on my brother and I. Before that, it was hard to see it as a disease because of how it affected us but now that its in the past I can see how hard it is and was for them.
I hear you - and I'm not coming from a place where diseases of the mind don't count, by any means. I guess maybe anxiety, depression seem like issues that happen TO a person, and I think of addiction as an issue that folks bring upon themselves, although that certainly seems a little fucked up once I type it out.
I guess maybe a better way to state my reaction to the issue would be to say that addiction is a disease, but that a person can be held accountable for failing to treat / get a handle on that disease. Does that make sense?
Really? Would you send them to addicts jail? Held accountable how? Because I know a lot of people who would love to get a handle on their disease but can't seem to make that leap. Dude, it isn't as easy as you think for all people.
People who are mentally healthy don't do heroine. They just don't.
The only people who are addicted to drugs are running from something - depression, anxiety, trauma.
I have a looooot of addiction in my family, and I'm convinced.
I am glad to find such an expert on GBCN. To think I could have saved so much money by coming here and having you diagnose me.
I don't care how much addiction you have in your family, until you have walked in my shoes girlfriend, you don't have a fucking clue about addiction. I can guarantee you I am not running from anything, I am an addict and an alcoholic and not afraid to admit it.
Even though I have a few years of recovery, the fight lives on inside of me every day and STUPID fucking statements like this enrage me.
Firstly, congratulations on your recovery. Honestly, you - and everyone around you - should be celebrating it.
You're right; I'm only speaking from personal experience with addiction, I shouldn't have generalized. I certainly don't mean to state that addicts are cowardly or "damaged," just that many of my loved ones who struggle with addiction have been attempting to treat another condition, mostly undiagnosed, with their drug of choice. Their treatment for their addictions was ineffective until they addressed the deeper issues - to figure out why they wanted to use heroine in the first place, why they enjoyed blacking out, etc.
I don't know your situation and won't pretend to; I was just offering my perspective, which, especially in terms of heroine addiction, I still don't feel is entirely incorrect.
I am glad to find such an expert on GBCN. To think I could have saved so much money by coming here and having you diagnose me.
I don't care how much addiction you have in your family, until you have walked in my shoes girlfriend, you don't have a fucking clue about addiction. I can guarantee you I am not running from anything, I am an addict and an alcoholic and not afraid to admit it.
Even though I have a few years of recovery, the fight lives on inside of me every day and STUPID fucking statements like this enrage me.
Firstly, congratulations on your recovery. Honestly, you - and everyone around you - should be celebrating it.
You're right; I'm only speaking from personal experience with addiction, I shouldn't have generalized. I certainly don't mean to state that addicts are cowardly or "damaged," just that many of my loved ones who struggle with addiction have been attempting to treat another condition, mostly undiagnosed, with their drug of choice. Their treatment for their addictions was ineffective until they addressed the deeper issues - to figure out why they wanted to use heroine in the first place, why they enjoyed blacking out, etc.
I don't know your situation and won't pretend to; I was just offering my perspective, which, especially in terms of heroine addiction, I still don't feel is entirely incorrect.
I can not speak for heroin addicts, and I guess in the same way someone who is not an addict can't understand why addicts use, I don't understand why someone would choose heroin. Not something I exposed myself too though I could have easily done so.
Post by lexxasaurus on Jul 16, 2013 21:45:18 GMT -5
Yes. I do.
It is hard for people to accept though. And you can say "we support cancer patients! WE HELP THEM! Why don't we feel so compassionate towards addicts then?!" But take in mind addiction often causes people to lash out, steal, abuse, abandon... Cancer usually doesn't. I think that makes it harder for people to distinguish it as a disease instead of a choice.
((I spent years trying to "save" my partner, and am an addict myself. In no way am I trying to say it is anything but a disease. But as a disease that manifests itself far differently than many "typical" ones, I try to understand the perspective of people who have problems coming to terms with it...))
Post by ashbridemd on Jul 16, 2013 21:49:24 GMT -5
I'm so torn on this. Nobody wants to live the hard life of an addict or a recovering addict. But I don't think that is what they are initially thinking about when they first try the drug. Whether it be kids at a party who are pressured into trying it, or an adult who thinks "Oh just this one time won't get me addicted or anything...." They usually end up addicted. And it's horrible to see someone be so dependent on something like that.
But at the same time...People make the choice to get clean everyday and stay clean for the rest of their lives. Every single person who is addicted to drugs is fully capable of becoming clean and sober and staying that way. But why don't they? Because they are terrified of withdraw. They are terrified of how they are going to feel without the drugs. They are terrified of how much more difficult life is going to be as a recovering addict. And they don't want to go through the pain. Probably the same reason they started the drugs in the first place....They don't want to feel the pain. Who does? So it's easier to continue on doing what they are doing, instead of fixing themselves.
That is why I don't put addiction and a disease like cancer on the same level. Both have treatments that are painful and hard to go through. But the difference is....Cancer doesn't make you feel good. Would someone who is a cancer patient and also an addict turn down Chemo because of the horrible side effects and challenges that come with it? Probably not. They would probably be thankful for any chance they got to get better. But would they be as eager to except treatment for their addiction?? Probably not. This is why I feel there is such a HUGE difference.
I hear you - and I'm not coming from a place where diseases of the mind don't count, by any means. I guess maybe anxiety, depression seem like issues that happen TO a person, and I think of addiction as an issue that folks bring upon themselves, although that certainly seems a little fucked up once I type it out.
I guess maybe a better way to state my reaction to the issue would be to say that addiction is a disease, but that a person can be held accountable for failing to treat / get a handle on that disease. Does that make sense?
But here's the thing. There is a physical component, and there are studies showing that there is a familial pre-disposition/link to addiction. So, some people are more likely to get quickly addicted than others. Sure, there are other contributing factors, but family history is considered to be a risk factor in addiction (or, at least it was when I went through school). Would all this be avoided by just not starting to drink/do drugs/look at porn/whatever? Perhaps. But most people don't start off doing that stuff with the *intent* to fuck everythign up and become addicts. It builds on itself and can take a LONG time before someone actually acknowledges the problem.
I think another big problem with the whole disease/not a disease issue is that it hugely mental, and in our society, we stigmatize mental disease. Some are "better" than others, but in general, mental disease is still viewed as something that someone should be able to control, and, in some cases, not even legitimate or real. Or someone is just written off as crazy, when we're finding that there are actual brain chemistry changes that are associated with these illnesses.
I'm so torn on this. Nobody wants to live the hard life of an addict or a recovering addict. But I don't think that is what they are initially thinking about when they first try the drug. Whether it be kids at a party who are pressured into trying it, or an adult who thinks "Oh just this one time won't get me addicted or anything...." They usually end up addicted. And it's horrible to see someone be so dependent on something like that.
But at the same time...People make the choice to get clean everyday and stay clean for the rest of their lives. Every single person who is addicted to drugs is fully capable of becoming clean and sober and staying that way. But why don't they? Because they are terrified of withdraw. They are terrified of how they are going to feel without the drugs. They are terrified of how much more difficult life is going to be as a recovering addict. And they don't want to go through the pain. Probably the same reason they started the drugs in the first place....They don't want to feel the pain. Who does? So it's easier to continue on doing what they are doing, instead of fixing themselves.
That is why I don't put addiction and a disease like cancer on the same level. Both have treatments that are painful and hard to go through. But the difference is....Cancer doesn't make you feel good. Would someone who is a cancer patient and also an addict turn down Chemo because of the horrible side effects and challenges that come with it? Probably not. They would probably be thankful for any chance they got to get better. But would they be as eager to except treatment for their addiction?? Probably not. This is why I feel there is such a HUGE difference.
I'm so torn on this. Nobody wants to live the hard life of an addict or a recovering addict. But I don't think that is what they are initially thinking about when they first try the drug. Whether it be kids at a party who are pressured into trying it, or an adult who thinks "Oh just this one time won't get me addicted or anything...." They usually end up addicted. And it's horrible to see someone be so dependent on something like that.
But at the same time...People make the choice to get clean everyday and stay clean for the rest of their lives. Every single person who is addicted to drugs is fully capable of becoming clean and sober and staying that way. But why don't they? Because they are terrified of withdraw. They are terrified of how they are going to feel without the drugs. They are terrified of how much more difficult life is going to be as a recovering addict. And they don't want to go through the pain. Probably the same reason they started the drugs in the first place....They don't want to feel the pain. Who does? So it's easier to continue on doing what they are doing, instead of fixing themselves.
That is why I don't put addiction and a disease like cancer on the same level. Both have treatments that are painful and hard to go through. But the difference is....Cancer doesn't make you feel good. Would someone who is a cancer patient and also an addict turn down Chemo because of the horrible side effects and challenges that come with it? Probably not. They would probably be thankful for any chance they got to get better. But would they be as eager to except treatment for their addiction?? Probably not. This is why I feel there is such a HUGE difference.
But at the same time...People make the choice to get clean everyday and stay clean for the rest of their lives. Every single person who is addicted to drugs is fully capable of becoming clean and sober and staying that way. But why don't they? Because they are terrified of withdraw. They are terrified of how they are going to feel without the drugs. They are terrified of how much more difficult life is going to be as a recovering addict. And they don't want to go through the pain. Probably the same reason they started the drugs in the first place....They don't want to feel the pain. Who does? So it's easier to continue on doing what they are doing, instead of fixing themselves. That is why I don't put addiction and a disease like cancer on the same level. Both have treatments that are painful and hard to go through. But the difference is....Cancer doesn't make you feel good. Would someone who is a cancer patient and also an addict turn down Chemo because of the horrible side effects and challenges that come with it? Probably not. They would probably be thankful for any chance they got to get better. But would they be as eager to except treatment for their addiction?? Probably not. This is why I feel there is such a HUGE difference.
Addicts stay addicts because their brains are telling them to, because they have a mental illness, because they are in a bad situation and its an escape, or some combo of all 3.
do you consider anorexia a disease? its the same thing they develop disordered thinking that keeps the illness going and it is very hard to retrain the brain into correct thinking. It takes a lot of work and commitment not only to take the step to get help and work the program but to make the decision every day to not allow the illness to take back over.