Post by hopecounts on Jul 16, 2013 22:52:20 GMT -5
I'm gonna leave this very appropriate song by this drug addicted man who was in and out of rehab 4 times over 40 years before he was able to stay clean. You don't go through withdrawal 4 times just because its fun. Despite money, fame, and the love and support of good people he couldn't beat his demons for a long time.
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
Post by spitforspat on Jul 16, 2013 23:15:45 GMT -5
My mom had a lung transplant due to COPD. She couldn't stop smoking. She died.
I knew there were people in the world who thought she "deserved it" and that they "didn't feel sorry for her."
I'm finding great comfort in knowing ashbride is one of those people. It makes me believe all those people are hate-filled idiots and makes it easier to discount their thoughts.
I don't even really know what you're saying here, but good luck watching this spiral out of control
I change my guess to 15 pages by 9am
I'm taking the under. Despite constantly being proven wrong, I don't believe there are too many really stupid people here. Under 5 pages unless 67 Lurkers chime in with "yes."
I'm taking the under. Despite constantly being proven wrong, I don't believe there are too many really stupid people here. Under 5 pages unless 67 Lurkers chime in with "yes."
Yes, of course it's a disease. In some cases a person brings it on themselves (like you probably shouldn't try meth to begin with) but that is also true of many diseases, such as skin cancer caused by tanning or diabetes caused by an unhealthy diet. If we're going to throw out addiction based on the fact that the person with it "caused" it, we'll have to disqualify a bunch of other things from being diseases too.
Not to mention - with something like alcohol, not everyone gets addicted. I used to drink a lot, and still drink regularly, but I've never been an alcoholic. Someone else may have drank the same amount as I did (or less) and become addicted to alcohol. There is something biological that you have to attribute that to - otherwise all of us heavier drinkers would be addicts, but we're not. I think that clearly shows alcoholism is a disease.
If anyone has any questions about addiction, please feel free to ask. I won't get defensive about it--I want to educate.
How/when did you decide it was time to get help? Did you make amends with people you had hurt? Did they accept? You dont have to answer these. Or PM me if you want. I am not asking to be a nosy bitch. My dad is an alcoholic and its something I really need to deal with.
How/when did you decide it was time to get help? The guy I was living with was threatening me more and more with having my kids taken away, plus the shame and guilt I felt for all the things I was doing was starting to get to me. Honestly, I didn't want to stop drinking--I just wanted people to get off my back. KWIM? That was in 1987. I stayed sober (no alcohol or drugs) for 8 months, then I got this bright idea to buy some coke. That didn't go too well and I made the decision that "sober" meant no drugs too. That was July 3, 1988, and the rest is history.
Did you make amends with people you had hurt? Yes, the 9th Step of AA SUGGESTS that we make direct amends to the people we have harmed whenever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Did they accept? As far as I could tell, they all accepted. Even if I felt they weren't going to, I pocketed my pride and went to work by doing it anyway. If they hadn't accepted, that would have been okay. As long as I swept my side of the street, it was all good.
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
"Why would you ruin perfectly good peanuts by adding candy corn? That's like saying hey, I have these awesome nachos, guess I better add some dryer lint." - Nonny
Not really. My mom is an addict, and a breast cancer patient. I remember sitting in on one of her meetings and she made a comment to the effect of "which disease (addiction or breast cancer) is acceptable?" And it was such utter bullshit. Obviously I'm coming from a hostile place (lol - you think:)) , so that's probably informing my opinion more than anything else...
Another lurker here. As a child of an alcoholic, I completely understand what calledout is saying. She even admits it's a hostile thought, not rational in any way. I'm familiar with the research, even once worked on a study of cocaine dependence. I understand that long term use and abuse changes neurochemistry and all that.
The issue, as I have come to see it, is with the language used to describe how an addict ends up in treatment. It's very different from most other diseases - even many other mental illnesses, although there's a lot of co-morbidity between the two. People talk about the addict needing to "hit rock bottom" because "treatment needs to be their choice." Everyone knows this: You simply can't force an addict into treatment. Forcing someone into treatment if they aren't ready will result in a failed treatment attempt. Meanwhile, it's at least possible, in theory, to force a breast cancer patient to get treatment against her will.
So, while, I understand the science... it's been hard to me to change my gut, visceral reaction. I rationally can comprehend that addiction is a disease. But, the child of an alcoholic in me says: "Fuck that shit! If you needed your goddamned rock bottom, it should have been the fucking disappointment the time you got drunk and ruined my birthday/Christmas/Halloween/a random Wednesday night when I just needed my mom. Why wasn't I enough to make you make the choice for to tackle your issues?"
I think the point made up-thread about accepting that addiction is a disease doesn't mean you have to accept/forgive the transgressions of the addict is really important, and it's honestly a point that I don't think I heard enough as I was growing up. My mom would even throw it back at us "You need to let me be. I was only drunk for one day. This is a disease. It's hard. [Insert words that invalidate her children's feelings here]." She's still not good about truly apologizing, accepting her behavior caused pain, and making amends. Of course she didn't do AA - In her words, she wasn't a "real" alcoholic like those people.
And in no way to I endorse ashbride's comments. As a rational person, I believe that addiction should be treated like any other illness - insurance coverage for treatment, rehab not jail, etc., etc. However, as a part of the "is addiction a disease" conversation, I think it is helpful to highlight the gut reactions of those who have dealt with addicts.
Not really. My mom is an addict, and a breast cancer patient. I remember sitting in on one of her meetings and she made a comment to the effect of "which disease (addiction or breast cancer) is acceptable?" And it was such utter bullshit. Obviously I'm coming from a hostile place (lol - you think:)) , so that's probably informing my opinion more than anything else...
The issue, as I have come to see it, is with the language used to describe how an addict ends up in treatment. It's very different from most other diseases - even many other mental illnesses, although there's a lot of co-morbidity between the two. People talk about the addict needing to "hit rock bottom" because "treatment needs to be their choice." Everyone knows this: You simply can't force an addict into treatment. Forcing someone into treatment if they aren't ready will result in a failed treatment attempt. Meanwhile, it's at least possible, in theory, to force a breast cancer patient to get treatment against her will.  
This is true of every other mental illness. Schizophrenia included.
And I've known many with "medical" illnesses who act similarly. Diabetes is a big one. Heart disease is another.
I can't imagine a person who is SO addicted that they will die from WITHDRAWAL (happy, LCH?) would seek to do it by themselves without any medical supervision. If they do, that's so sad that they have no one left in their life that would be there to help them.
Fuck off. My uncle died at 38, because he was trying to sober up on his own. He had a wife, four sisters, and countless nieces and nephews that loved him who would have done anything for him, if HE HAD LET THEM.
I am a child of an alcoholic too and I highly recommend going to alanon for those on here that are dealing with alcoholics and are angry. It may help you to eventually not feel such anger and get visceral reactions. It will put many things into perspective. (It's a nice place to vent too btw).
Also I just can't get into the comparing addiction to cancer. I don't think the comparison is fruitful. I think it works better to think of every disease in its own right.