you absolutely deserve more. The counselor you guys saw was fucked up, so if you are serious about wanting to fix things (and if he is interested, which I'm not sure from your posts that he is since he is refusing to take any responsibility for being an unsupportive asshole) then you could try another marriage counselor.
I would definitely try to get into counseling just for yourself though so that you can sort through your feelings. Try to sock away money and protect yourself financially as much as you can in case you do need to separate.
Hugs I'm so sorry. I think I could of written your post. I don't have any answers but all the love and support in the world to to. You do deserve better.
Post by wanderlustmom on Jul 27, 2014 21:46:49 GMT -5
I am so sorry! Lots of hugs. You deserve your feelings and respect. I hope your DH can be the husband you need. I would ask for personal referrals for an individual counselor first and then a marriage counselor.
I'm so sorry. I was in a similar situation about five years ago. Among other examples, DH used to make jokes at my expense, and when I told him it hurt my feelings, he said I didn't have a sense of humor anymore and I was being too sensitive. I bought that, for awhile. But when someone else started giving me validation and showing me respect....let's just say I was very susceptible to those charms. We did work through it, and five years later we're both magnitudes happier and our marriage is much stronger. I don't think you need to DTMF, but there are some issues that you guys need to resolve if you're going to make it work. Good luck!
My XH used to always accuse me of being overdramatic or even tell me that I enjoyed picking fights with him. I must enjoy fighting since we always did it. The funny thing is, in the 18 months since I've been separated from him I haven't fought with anyone. I've been dating someone seriously for the last 9 months and he thinks I'm laid back and we never fight. XH was very dismissive of my feelings and always thought he could do no wrong. If I had a problem with something he did, it must be because there was something wrong with me. I can tell you I am SO MUCH HAPPIER now than I was with him. Life is actually really pleasant and easy these days.
Hugs for you. I know it's really hard. I hope you can either figure out how to fix things between you or get out. What's happening right now isn't what you deserve.
The more I read your updates the sadder I get. You do not deserve to be treated this way, especially by your spouse, who is supposed to have your back no matter what. I am so very sorry you're in this situation and I hope you find peace soon. ((hugs))
He didn't want to go to the concert and bought the tickets anyway just to please you. He then sets it up in such a way where he blames you for buying unaffordable tickets. Notice how he says that he spent so much money because you "expected" it. He then puts them up for sale (allegedly because of you) and then conveniently "forgets" to take them off. It seems like he does what he wants without having to take ownership of it.
It makes complete sense because his parents are bullies. He has been trained to put other's needs ahead of his, and the only way he can take care of his own needs and wants is by being sneaky and accidentally "forgetting" or thinking you wanted something else.
Here is an excerpt from an article that I recently read:
The man with passive aggressive behavior needs someone to be the object of his hidden hostility. He needs an adversary whose expectations and demands he can resist as he plays out the dance he learned from his parents. He chooses a woman who will agree to be on the receiving end of his disowned anger. He resists her in small ways setting up a pattern of frustration so that she gets to express the anger that he cannot.
The biggest irritant in being with a passive aggressive man is that he doesn't follow through on his agreements and promises. He dodges responsibility while insisting he's pulling his weight. He procrastinates, takes on big projects but doesn't finish them then feels put upon or hostile if someone else tries to finish it. He often ignores reality as to his irresponsibility and withdrawal. He denies evidence, distorts minimalizes or lies to make his version of reality seem logical.
So we had a big talk. A big one. Sort of a CTJ. Anyways, I told him that I understood about the tickets. He is forgetful and sometimes forgets, it was the way he made it MY problem that he forgot and degraded my feelings.
I told him I was DONE with him ignoring my feelings, " teasing" me about having too many and belittling my desires. I told him I was planning to go about my own life, and would no longer be put on the sidelines emotionally or physically because of him. I also told him that I when I tell him how I feel that he needs to hear me and not shut me down.
I told him about the apartment. I actually found a few places my Mom and I could afford with 3 bedrooms until the house sold. I told him if I don't see an improvement ( and not flowers one day, like actually listening to me) then I would be looking for a place to live.
He apologized. He realizes he is bullying me. He said he doesn't know how to process my feelings. That they are SO BIG sometimes ( this is true I am an empath and become easily overwhelmed with emotions, both mine and others)he get's scared. That emotions and emotional responses actually FRIGHTEN him because he grew up without them.
He also told me that he is angry at me because I "mumble nasty stuff" under my breath at him. I didn't realize I was doing this, but in an effort to not argue in front of DS I started whispering angry thoughts towards him in another room so DS couldn't hear just to get them out. He says it's just infuriating because he knows I am angry but I won't just say it to his face.
I read the article dot posted. This can sometimes be both of us. I really really don't know why we are both so angry at each other. I have an action plan for now though.
1) individual therapy starting next week ( found a therapist this morning will go at lunch time) 2) Church starting in September for DS and I ( I really love going but never do because H isn't into it, I am making it a goal to go 2x a month) 3)Exercise for me. I am going back to the gym, the elliptical at home isn't cutting it. I need to strength train 2x a week. I can actually go on my way home from work I hadn't realized that before 4) Start telling his parents to just stop. No don't contradict me in front of my son. No those aren't the values we teach in this house. No you can't speak to me that way.
He is going to a therapist too, right? Because he needs to deal with his own issues and parenting struggles. You can build on that in couples counseling to learn to fight fairer and more effectively.
He is going to a therapist too, right? Because he needs to deal with his own issues and parenting struggles. You can build on that in couples counseling to learn to fight fairer and more effectively.
I'm happy to hear about the talk. IMO your H's behavior does not have to be a dealbreaker if he is able to take ownership of it and actively work to make it better, depending on how well he does with making changes. Whereas when he put it all on you it was really unworkable.
I agree that he should be in therapy too. If you know he's not the type, maybe wait and see how he does. If he falls back into his old behaviors, you can say "Maybe you could use some help to learn new ways to handle things."
It sounds abusive to me. This is not a sustainable situation. I would feel extremely hurt based on what happened in your OP. Giving/receiving gifts shouldn't be such a miserable experience with your H, but more to the point, he shouldn't be invalidating your feelings and telling you that you're ungrateful. He sounds like a piece of shit that you're better off without.
Also, of COURSE he only wants to go to couples therapy. That way, he can say that you are half to blame for all your issues, and then pass the buck to you. Individual therapy means having to examine his own thoughts/feelings/actions, and he doesn't want to do that.
I know that ML is quick to say DTMFA, but in this case, it seems to me that your interactions with your H are more negative than positive. When the bad outweighs the good, is it really worth it? I wish you well with all this and hope that you find some peace in however you proceed with your marriage, but just know that he will not change. He will most likely remain the same. You have to decide if it's a dealbreaker.
Post by EmilieMadison on Jul 28, 2014 11:38:23 GMT -5
I have the same question as lhc. What is there to save? I can only assume (and yes, I realize what assuming can do) that this isn't brand new behaviour, that he's always been like this. Because this is who he is.
It sounds like the end goal here is for him to become a different person.
i really want and hope things get better for you, but i don't see that happening in this marriage. this sounds like a good time before another bad one.
Post by cuddlyevil on Jul 28, 2014 12:01:55 GMT -5
That's a good plan for you, but where is his responsibility in all of this? What is he going to do to improve things on his end? Couples counseling is not enough. I am glad you put it all out there, but what is the goal?
I will say that my stbx habitually ignored, disrespected, and devalued me and my feelings (if I expressed that I felt ignored, he'd respond with "I do not ignore you"). Any attempts to discuss changes in the behaviors that made me feel disrespected, etc turned into a vent about me taking away a "hobby", or how he "didn't care because it doesn't directly affect me.", or that I was being "irrational and this is what marriage/motherhood is" and I should suck it up. He did it throughout our marriage and I didn't always see it for what it was. It took time for me to leave, but I felt so much better when I did.
Your feelings matter, your thoughts matter, you matter. Don't ever forget that.
If he was committed to actually changing, he would be open to individual counseling. Because his baggage from his parents is exclusively his issue, as is him being a bully. Couples therapy is not appropriate to work on that because the root of those issues are not in your relationship but rather his past. This situation sounds really bad-- refusing to validate someone's feelings is a form of emotional abuse. You don't have to agree with or understand why your partner feels a certain way, but you should accept the legitimacy of those feelings. The fact that he makes fun of you and tries to shame you outright makes it way way worse than if he was simply like "I don't get why you feel this way."
The fact that he won't go to counseling for himself speaks volumes to me. He went to couples counseling and turned it all around on you.
SO, great, you had a talk. He apologized, all seems well and like it's moving in a good direction. But... this will not last. It just won't. It's great that he was able to vocalize what his problems with you are - but he has to be willing to do something about it. Saying "this is my issue" but not doing anything about it really means nothing.
In the end, it's clear that he simply STILL isn't willing to take responsibility. Going to individual counseling will mean a lot of soul searching on his part and a lot of having to own up to his role in this. Until he's willing to do that - I don't see how there will be any lasting change.
Really, is there anything honestly worth salvaging? Honest question.
Yes- there are a bunch of other areas where our relationship " works". He doesn't invalidate ALL of my feelings ALWAYS. There are genuine good times, and happy times and I'm not willing to walk away from that entirely yet.
The fact that he won't go to counseling for himself speaks volumes to me. He went to couples counseling and turned it all around on you.
SO, great, you had a talk. He apologized, all seems well and like it's moving in a good direction. But... this will not last. It just won't. It's great that he was able to vocalize what his problems with you are - but he has to be willing to do something about it. Saying "this is my issue" but not doing anything about it really means nothing.
In the end, it's clear that he simply STILL isn't willing to take responsibility. Going to individual counseling will mean a lot of soul searching on his part and a lot of having to own up to his role in this. Until he's willing to do that - I don't see how there will be any lasting change.
I agree with this. He needs to take personal responsibility for his issues and get individual help. Until he does that, nothing will change unfortunately.
Do you really mumble stuff under your breath? Did he give examples? I still feel like he was putting back on you.
I don't think of it as mumbling. I think of it as whispering. Like rather than yell at him in front of DS ( I have a temper and can be a yeller ) I have been just walking in the dining room and whispering to myself ( while straightening the table or whatever) the things I want to say so I don't just feel like I am holding it all inside.
I asked him why he was so angry with me and this was his response. He said it makes him really mad because if I am obviously upset why can't I say it to his face.
I'm sorry, @savestheday. Parts of your story are SO reminiscent of my exH, so I really feel you.
Your H is not only extremely passive-aggressive, he's a narcissist. This is not something that can be "worked on" by himself. If he values your marriage at all, he will get himself some individual counseling.
Individual counseling for you will help you sort through your VALID feelings and give you tools to deal with him, but ultimately, he has to decide that your marriage is more important than his pride and his own feelings. And that is a REALLY hard concept for a narcissist to accept.