His parents don't yell. They are just manipulative and intimidating. His father intimidates his mother ( by speaking sharply to her but not really ever raising his voice) and she in turn manipulates everyone around her by being the perpetual victim and making things about her all the time.
For example DH was a crappy sleeper as a kid * maybe because he never had a crib and slept on a mattress on the floor with a TV on * Anyways DS is an awesome sleeper and has always been. He just got a big boy bed and has been really really good about staying in it all night. Last time she was over she starts in on DS OVER AND OVER about how you can get out of bed at night and just stand in your room and walk around and it's okay.
WTF?? To H's credit when I told him he called her and told her not to contradict me and not to encourage poor behavior in his kid. She was like " Oh I just want him to be adventurous and have fun and you don't deserve a good sleeper after all you put me through tee hee"
I truly think that I would permanently cut off my in-laws if they acted like that, grandparents or not.
This is where H and I differ. I want to limit contact with them. He feels we " owe " them a family and should have patience with them because they are old. We have agreed on one weekend visit a month, mostly at there house but once in a while ( and I try to keep it to every six months ) at our place.
We did a vacation with them and it was actually BETTER than I imagined it could be somehow. I am still in awe of how much fun we all had together.
I don't think of it as mumbling. I think of it as whispering. Like rather than yell at him in front of DS ( I have a temper and can be a yeller ) I have been just walking in the dining room and whispering to myself ( while straightening the table or whatever) the things I want to say so I don't just feel like I am holding it all inside.
I asked him why he was so angry with me and this was his response. He said it makes him really mad because if I am obviously upset why can't I say it to his face.
But when you say it to his face he invalidates you, turns it around and assumes no responsibility. Wtf?
This.
stbx always ignored or devalued anything I said whenever I would try to bring up issues in our marriage or if I was having a rough time at work. Then he'd wonder why I stopped talking to him about things--he'd tell me he didn't care about it by actively trying to hear the tv better (he'd cup his hand over his ear) or ignoring me completely. Then he'd think it was funny if I called him on it.
And stbx isn't a bad guy either, we had good times and there were things about us that 'worked' but the foundation was crumbling. Really, all that worked about us was our friendship and how much we love our kids.
But when you say it to his face he invalidates you, turns it around and assumes no responsibility. Wtf?
This.
stbx always ignored or devalued anything I said whenever I would try to bring up issues in our marriage or if I was having a rough time at work. Then he'd wonder why I stopped talking to him about things--he'd tell me he didn't care about it by actively trying to hear the tv better (he'd cup his hand over his ear) or ignoring me completely. Then he'd think it was funny if I called him on it.
And stbx isn't a bad guy either, we had good times and there were things about us that 'worked' but the foundation was crumbling. Really, all that worked about us was our friendship and how much we love our kids.
This whole post is making me sad.
H doesn't do the TV thing. He has asked me why I am always on my phone, and finally I had to tell him it's because I am ignoring him in order to avoid getting angry.
Do you really mumble stuff under your breath? Did he give examples? I still feel like he was putting back on you.
I don't think of it as mumbling. I think of it as whispering. Like rather than yell at him in front of DS ( I have a temper and can be a yeller ) I have been just walking in the dining room and whispering to myself ( while straightening the table or whatever) the things I want to say so I don't just feel like I am holding it all inside.
I asked him why he was so angry with me and this was his response. He said it makes him really mad because if I am obviously upset why can't I say it to his face.
Because when say it to his face, he tells you are overreacting, blah, blah, blah and basically that it is your fault that he is getting mad. It sounds maddening.
His parents don't yell. They are just manipulative and intimidating. His father intimidates his mother ( by speaking sharply to her but not really ever raising his voice) and she in turn manipulates everyone around her by being the perpetual victim and making things about her all the time.
For example DH was a crappy sleeper as a kid * maybe because he never had a crib and slept on a mattress on the floor with a TV on * Anyways DS is an awesome sleeper and has always been. He just got a big boy bed and has been really really good about staying in it all night. Last time she was over she starts in on DS OVER AND OVER about how you can get out of bed at night and just stand in your room and walk around and it's okay.
WTF?? To H's credit when I told him he called her and told her not to contradict me and not to encourage poor behavior in his kid. She was like " Oh I just want him to be adventurous and have fun and you don't deserve a good sleeper after all you put me through tee hee"
NO.
They sound terrible. I mean, I know my in-laws can say and do things that are hurtful, but in their case they are truly oblivious to it. These people sound awful.
Oh and you don't "owe" your parents anything, much less a family. Good grief!
Look, whatever you decide to do about this, I hope you realize that you are better than this relationship. You are better than someone who point-blank tells you he does not care about your feelings, whose parents are complete lunatics, who refuses to acknowledge and work on the issues at hand. You are BETTER than this. And better than him.
stbx always ignored or devalued anything I said whenever I would try to bring up issues in our marriage or if I was having a rough time at work. Then he'd wonder why I stopped talking to him about things--he'd tell me he didn't care about it by actively trying to hear the tv better (he'd cup his hand over his ear) or ignoring me completely. Then he'd think it was funny if I called him on it.
And stbx isn't a bad guy either, we had good times and there were things about us that 'worked' but the foundation was crumbling. Really, all that worked about us was our friendship and how much we love our kids.
This whole post is making me sad.
H doesn't do the TV thing. He has asked me why I am always on my phone, and finally I had to tell him it's because I am ignoring him in order to avoid getting angry.
How did he respond when you said that?
Stbx did the tv thing because, at that point in time whatever was on was more important than whatever I was saying. He told our therapist "I know she's downloading and it's important to her, but I just don't care. It doesn't directly affect me and I don't know these people, so I don't care.". Our therapist and I both were like "And yet you wonder why she doesn't talk to you anymore?". My feelings and my status in the relationship didn't matter to him beyond what I was able to do for him (cook, mind the kids, sex)--the actually caring about me as a person? Not important.
You shouldn't feel like you have to avoid getting angry (because let's face it, you're still angry--even if you don't vent it directly at him). You should feel like your feelings are important enough to him that he will try to make things better with you. Instead, it seems like he's putting the responsibility for all of it squarely on your shoulders. And that's not fair.
His parents don't yell. They are just manipulative and intimidating. His father intimidates his mother ( by speaking sharply to her but not really ever raising his voice) and she in turn manipulates everyone around her by being the perpetual victim and making things about her all the time.
For example DH was a crappy sleeper as a kid * maybe because he never had a crib and slept on a mattress on the floor with a TV on * Anyways DS is an awesome sleeper and has always been. He just got a big boy bed and has been really really good about staying in it all night. Last time she was over she starts in on DS OVER AND OVER about how you can get out of bed at night and just stand in your room and walk around and it's okay.
WTF?? To H's credit when I told him he called her and told her not to contradict me and not to encourage poor behavior in his kid. She was like " Oh I just want him to be adventurous and have fun and you don't deserve a good sleeper after all you put me through tee hee"
NO.
They sound terrible. I mean, I know my in-laws can say and do things that are hurtful, but in their case they are truly oblivious to it. These people sound awful.
Oh and you don't "owe" your parents anything, much less a family. Good grief!
This is what I keep saying to H. We don't owe them. Also I am glad to see that other people think this is ridiculous. I was really starting to think I was crazy. I told my Mom and she said it was cruel of MIL to tell a child to defy his parents, but my Mom HATES my MIL her perspective is skewed.
H doesn't do the TV thing. He has asked me why I am always on my phone, and finally I had to tell him it's because I am ignoring him in order to avoid getting angry.
How did he respond when you said that?
Stbx did the tv thing because, at that point in time whatever was on was more important than whatever I was saying. He told our therapist "I know she's downloading and it's important to her, but I just don't care. It doesn't directly affect me and I don't know these people, so I don't care.". Our therapist and I both were like "And yet you wonder why she doesn't talk to you anymore?". My feelings and my status in the relationship didn't matter to him beyond what I was able to do for him (cook, mind the kids, sex)--the actually caring about me as a person? Not important.
You shouldn't feel like you have to avoid getting angry (because let's face it, you're still angry--even if you don't vent it directly at him). You should feel like your feelings are important enough to him that he will try to make things better with you. Instead, it seems like he's putting the responsibility for all of it squarely on your shoulders. And that's not fair.
He was hurt. He told me that he wishes we communicate better. I told him to stop shutting me down. Our one " safe" topic is how cute and smart DS is. We can talk about that forever.
I'm sorry, @savestheday. Parts of your story are SO reminiscent of my exH, so I really feel you.
Your H is not only extremely passive-aggressive, he's a narcissist. This is not something that can be "worked on" by himself. If he values your marriage at all, he will get himself some individual counseling.
Individual counseling for you will help you sort through your VALID feelings and give you tools to deal with him, but ultimately, he has to decide that your marriage is more important than his pride and his own feelings. And that is a REALLY hard concept for a narcissist to accept.
Totally agree. I am pretty positive that my exH is a narcissist. It was so frustrating being married to him.
I would do the mumbling under my breath thing too. I am not proud of that, but now that I am thinking about it in light of this thread, I realize I did it for the same reasons you do, @savestheday. Talking to him about my issues/concerns/whatever never resulted in anything productive happening. It would all get turned around on me. And so it was a way to vent my feelings a bit.
My advice is to put some money aside, don't threaten to leave or show him the apartments you are looking at, perhaps a legal consultation, and when you decide you've had enough and he really isn't changing then you have your ducks in a row.
This doesn't mean not to give him a chance, it just means you'll be prepared to start a life where there isn't the norm for your son.