I find this perspective really interesting because, as a white person, it hasn't always appeared that way to me.
The top 10 most segregated cities are not in the South. Wisconsin just ranked in one study as the worst state for black men. The incarceration rate for black men in Wisconsin is even more astounding than the national rate. Yet Midwesterners talk about "the South" as this foreign, backwards land filled with racist hillbillies. I never really hear anybody admit to being racist, but I feel like I heard more coded language in the Midwest and more overt language in the South.
Please know I'm NOT disputing the racism prevalent in the South (I mean, I'm not lys...my god). Just offering my experience.
HBC said old white people, just to be clear.
I know all the stats for the North and lived there and get it. Racism isn't necessarily more or less prevalent in the South, just different. There are places still trying to integrate proms. Proms in Chicago neighborhoods aren't integrated because the schools aren't. Some proms in Mississippi aren't integrated because the White parents refuse. Same problem, different manifestation. And when I was in Mississippi, my cousin had an actual cross burned on her lawn by the Klan about 15 years ago. But Mississippi is also different from say Memphis or Atlanta.
You're missing the point again. It's subconscious that you think nothing of how you use words or view others - it's almost a tangible example of the people who don't realize or take the time to examine these systemic biases. It fits right in with your questioning racial profiling by police officers.
No, I hear the point loud and clear actually. I just don't agree with it. I think everyone on this board has become very accustomed to conversing with many like minded women. I'm not like minded on a lot of the things spoken about here. I question the reputation all police officers get because of racial profiling. Of course it happens! You know what else happens? Weapon focus. That when your eyewitnesses fuck up their version of what happened because people who are in the presence of a deadly weapon tend to focus only on the weapon and misremember facts about the rest of the event. I die inside when people take eyewitness accounts as gospel- especially in the 1st 48-72 hours following an event. That's because the brain can't even property sort out/process facts until much later. So yeah, I fucking question the hard line stance about cops are are all racially profiling.
This is tangential, but I think you meant... Thanks for pointing out my subconscious biases, let's keep talking about racial issues including the assumption that all police racial profile and that eye witness accounts are biased by fear. I am being sarcastic obviously now, but I have said stupid stuff in the past that was thoughtless and still came back to discuss. Oh and I am one of those bleeding heart liberals.
I find this perspective really interesting because, as a white person, it hasn't always appeared that way to me.
The top 10 most segregated cities are not in the South. Wisconsin just ranked in one study as the worst state for black men. The incarceration rate for black men in Wisconsin is even more astounding than the national rate. Yet Midwesterners talk about "the South" as this foreign, backwards land filled with racist hillbillies. I never really hear anybody admit to being racist, but I feel like I heard more coded language in the Midwest and more overt language in the South.
Please know I'm NOT disputing the racism prevalent in the South (I mean, I'm not lys...my god). Just offering my experience.
I think this though is the difference between racism against individuals and racism as a systemic or societal problem. I do agree that there is racism everywhere and that there is racism in places that would shock people. But person to person racism, I think my comments on the south stand pretty well.
I also find it interesting to think the south is where you find the most racism, considering it's the largest population of black people. You would think that would lead to better relations, but that shit is so ingrained I guess it's hard to escape
It's not ridiculous in the slightest bit. They're related, and you can't see that.
The n-word isn't even part of the pussy discussion, and should not be brought into it. Which just further shows that you have no grasp of what you're trying to argue.
You know, I disagree with a lot of what you people say on here but god damn, you like to insult me and I treat you all respectfully. wtf is your problem?
I know all the stats for the North and lived there and get it. Racism isn't necessarily more or less prevalent in the South, just different. There are places still trying to integrate proms. Proms in Chicago neighborhoods aren't integrated because the schools aren't. Some proms in Mississippi aren't integrated because the White parents refuse. Same problem, different manifestation. And when I was in Mississippi, my cousin had an actual cross burned on her lawn by the Klan about 15 years ago. But Mississippi is also different from say Memphis or Atlanta.
Yes this. And things like referring to my hair as being frizzy, saying my son needs to do something about his hair because it's out of control, using the phrase Aunt Jemima when I do my hair like Rosie the Riveter.
I also find it interesting to think the south is where you find the most racism, considering it's the largest population of black people. You would think that would lead to better relations, but that shit is so ingrained I guess it's hard to escape
I also find it interesting to think the south is where you find the most racism, considering it's the largest population of black people. You would think that would lead to better relations, but that shit is so ingrained I guess it's hard to escape
Really? I don't find this surprising at all.
I have even thinking a lot about how people end up racist - as in how is it learned. I think about it a lot because I wonder about how much little kids hear and absorb (DHs dad and his friends were saying some fairly questionable things up at the cottage this weekend and I was thinking about my nephews, 4 and 5, possibly hearing them).
I don't think it is all surprising that someone would identify the South as being more racist and given some of the stories I have heard here and elsewhere I imagine it is totally possible.
Imma be nice and play, but please understand that I keep everything 100 and Imma say what I have to say because I'm Free, Black and Over 21.
1. Do you believe that racism can be overcome in America?
I don't know. I have grave misgivings because we claim to be Post Racial, but that's really because people take an ostrich approach to racial issues. We ignore when people bring these issues to the forefront and then say "THE RACE CARD IS BEING PLAYED!" Or, white folks get eerily silent when it comes to the things that happen in Ferguson. Save for the folks on my FB feed that are CEP or professors at major universities - ain't nan' one (in slang not a single person) dem fools said ish about Ferguson.
2. If you are black do you feel an inherent mistrust of all white people, or think that all white people have at least some amount of racism?
No. I don't inherently mistrust anyone. You need to show yourself a fool to me first and once you do that, Imma handle you in that fashion. I have serious disdain for these individuals: Racists, Bigots, Chauvinists, Homophobes (also Bigots but they claim they aren't) and Idiots.
I think that white folks benefit from a system created by the beloved Founding Fathers through Privilege. Some folks recognize this and work toward improving the conditions of others. Other folks ignore it and think it's some stuff folks pulled out of the air. I don't know how they don't see this considering the history of the nation, but hey, I guess being willfully ignorant is bliss.
3. If racism can be overcome, how do we do it? What do you think would need to happen?
You start by having REAL dialogue and stop discounting what people of color have to say. When you gloss over people explaining their issues, you don't hear what they are saying because you take it personal. Why we ignore the concerns of the disenfranchised is beyond me. It's like telling your kid that the hairline fracture in their wrist isn't there. You can't know something is wrong unless you examine it carefully. That is something this nation refuses to do.
I also find it interesting to think the south is where you find the most racism, considering it's the largest population of black people. You would think that would lead to better relations, but that shit is so ingrained I guess it's hard to escape
Have you never heard of reconstruction?
Just trying to facilite more productive conversation. Go on ahead being an insulting douche though
Oh race relations have changed drastically. The conscious racism has died back quite a bit. It's the systemic and unconscious racism that's still alive and kicking, if not more deep seated.
It seems worse this way-like it's more ingrained.
I think it's hard for people who have not experienced overt signs of racism to understand what takes place every day in this country. I would hope most younger people would be willing to listen and not just write things off but after seeing some responses to posts about ferguson I think we are a lot further off from that than I realized
But see, people dismiss the overt as just a few while wholesale overlooking the societal and systemic racism.
When I talk to people now, I explain the statistics. I mention studies, facts. Because if I say, oh I experienced that, people say nah, it didn't happen like that, you're just imagining it, oh I'm sure they didn't mean it that way, oh, that doesn't happen very often.
But if I say, you know, they did a study and take myself out of it, people are more receptive.
Do you guys think we are better off today racially speaking, than ever before in our history?
I find this to be an intellectually lazy question anytime anyone asks it.
I mean, do we ask women if they think they are better off today than they were in 1918 before they got the right to vote? It's like asking a black person in 1900 if they were better off than being slaves just a short time ago.
As Sou said, I'm not getting raped by Massa so, Imma count it a win.
Times change and because times change, new issues arise. You have to take those issues inn the context of THAT particular time. Whenever this question is asked, it's always heard in the vein of "Well, you can go anywhere and do this and you couldn't before." That's cool, and everyone is glad for that, but it discounts issues around police brutality, redlining, and other more insidious hidden racial components that still make-up society. Racism is not limited to dudes in white hoods burning crosses in yards.
It is systematic and woven into society via policy. And that shouldn't surprise anyone considering at one point in time that black folks were 3/5s a person and weren't allowed to vote.
Post by iammalcolmx on Aug 15, 2014 18:55:23 GMT -5
I am insulted at the notion I only speak with like-minded people. My entire life is about diversity. From my redneck friends to me being cool with pretty much all of the conservatives on here. It's like that Trayvon Martin thread where that ho told me I needed a more diverse group of people in my life.
Just trying to facilite more productive conversation. Go on ahead being an insulting douche though
You can't claim to be facilitating shit when you come out with a sentence like that that even a fifth grader could tell was full of shit and lies.
Even disregarding reconstruction, the south was the home of Jim Crow, cotton plantations, and slavery. Why in the hell one would think it would be less racist than say Massachusetts, a state that outlawed slavery in 1795ish or something and never put black folks in the back of the bus is beyond me.
Also, I read somewhere that the best time for black folks in this country was just after the Civil War. There was more representation of black folks in government, in civil matters, in police departments etc than any time before or even any time since.
And of course, white folks couldn't handle that and thus began the Ku Klux Klan.
That's not hyperbole, btw. That is the truth. Black folks were being elected to office left and right, owning prosperous businesses, sending their children to school, buying property, hiring teachers in to start schools in large and fairly equal numbers. And that's the reason the KKK started. They reigned terror in those areas and shut that shit down with a quickness. This coaxed a lot of black folks into fleeing for northern cities and to more urban areas. That in turn, caused white folks in northern cities and urban areas to flee to outlying areas or close ranks in certain parts of town.
We already talked about how white people don't have a community. I'm sorry you were absent that day.
And basically told to shut the fuck up cause white people weren't gonna band together and do shit about mass shooters, not our job but black folks damn sho betta do something to stop that shooting in Chicago. I felt some kinda way about this discussion then and feel some kinda way about it now.
I think for real progress to be made, people in general (specifically white people) need to be really honest about more hidden racism and how that has hurt minority populations. Too many people hide behind "that's not how things are now" when there have been policies that lasted far too long and hurt too many people.
For example, near where I live, for years there were racial zoning laws that prevented African Americans from living in certain areas nearest many of the jobs. Because they couldn't purchase homes there, they weren't able to get as well-paying jobs. They also didn't have the wealth building that could have come from home ownership in those areas. It kept many of them at a certain level of poverty.
However, many people won't acknowledge this. They say "it's not like that anymore" or "young people today weren't affected by that" but things like that do affect multiple generations.
Oh and white folks need to stop saying that the programs enacted to help correct these issues are racist.
It's not ridiculous in the slightest bit. They're related, and you can't see that.
The n-word isn't even part of the pussy discussion, and should not be brought into it. Which just further shows that you have no grasp of what you're trying to argue.
You know, I disagree with a lot of what you people say on here but god damn, you like to insult me and I treat you all respectfully. wtf is your problem?
Funny that you think I give any fucks about "helping myself"
I'm beginning to think you're not really interested in a dialogue at all, but in stirring the pot by "being provocative". Really you just come across like an asshole. I don't get it.