I have some questions after reading through the many discussions revolving around Ferguson this past week.
1. Do you believe that racism can be overcome in America?
2. If you are black do you feel an inherent mistrust of all white people, or think that all white people have at least some amount of racism?
3. If racism can be overcome, how do we do it? What do you think would need to happen?
I'm deeply curious especially about what the black ladies on the board feel about white people in general. I know I have a certain level of what I would call unconscious racism- I don't feel racist, but I've been exposed to the American media for 35 years so sometimes I'll catch myself and that makes me angry.
1. I honestly don't know if it can be overcome because to do so people need to really look at themselves and their privilege, and most people just have too many defenses up to do that. I hope it can, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.
2. I'm married to a White man, so that answer is obvious. I absolutely do not mistrust White people inherently. Good people are good people.
3. People need to let down their guard, look and listen to what is actually happening, instead of getting defensive and screaming, "I'm not racist!" People need to read up on history so you know exactly what was happening then is what is happening now. It's not slavery, MLK, Obama, done. Not even close. And for God sakes I will never get over that stat of how few White people have friends of any color. That has to stop yesterday. I still don't understand how that happens. People don't actually know people, and then they start drinking the kool-aid of what they hear.
Post by downtoearth on Aug 15, 2014 16:03:33 GMT -5
I sort of feel like this is a trap also, but I think it's only b/c of the LAPD discussion, so I'm going to come in open minded.
1. Yes, but just like Rome wasn't built in a Day, it will take time... it will just be continually better with some leaps and bounds, but mostly miniscule victories toward equality. I have to hope for a better world for the next kids and the future b/c it's in my nature.
2. Not black
3. I like the pps answers on this one. Talking and knowing real people is the most important. Plus, I think standing together (all races) to fight for better civil rights for one group or another is key. Also, I don't like people who are complacent - it's lazy to just imagine that it's not your fight for civil rights for everyone. We have to encourage people to talk about and examine the tough things that you don't want to disrupt your quiet family life.
In addition to what I said for #3, the biggest obstacle is that a decent proportion of White people simply refuse to acknowledge that racism even exists. Any conversation quickly spirals into how White males are in danger. I really honestly don't know if there is any hope for those people.
Do you guys think we are better off today racially speaking, than ever before in our history?
It depends on what you are talking about "racially speaking". I'm not a slave anymore, but things are far from cool.
I guess I mean of you examine the progression of racism from slavery to the civil rights era of the 60s to present day do you think there has been an uninterrupted positive trend? Or maybe today is very similar to the attitudes of the 60s?
It depends on what you are talking about "racially speaking". I'm not a slave anymore, but things are far from cool.
I guess I mean of you examine the progression of racism from slavery to the civil rights era of the 60s to present day do you think there has been an uninterrupted positive trend? Or maybe today is very similar to the attitudes of the 60s?
I think many many people are as racist today as they ever were, they just know it's not ok to say it out loud. They speak in coded language about it. And they are very angry and indignant that they can't be out and proud.
In addition to what I said for #3, the biggest obstacle is that a decent proportion of White people simply refuse to acknowledge that racism even exists. Any conversation quickly spirals into how White males are in danger. I really honestly don't know if there is any hope for those people.
I think this is a really big stumbling block in the conversation. People are so automatically defensive, and I feel like I can say that because I was young and dumb once, and I am pretty sure 10+ years ago, I probably thought racism wasn't a big deal because I was sheltered enough to have never noticed or seen it personally and didn't really understand the nuances to racism (like coded language or the more insidious parts of racism that are hidden throughout every aspect of our country). So I thought it was a thing of the past, besides some old holdouts. I didn't realize how much of a part of our culture it was, especially in ways that were not immediately visible. Stupidly, I thought that because all the obvious, government endorsed signs of racism in our country's history, like the Jim Crow laws, segregated schools, etc. were gone that racism was a one off. Sure there were still racists, but they weren't the majority nor did others feel the way they did.
One thing that I think is possibly positive is that I think the tone of how we teach kids about these things has changed dramatically. I have no doubt that when I was a kid, my parents thought shushing us if we mentioned something about color was the norm where we've had multiple conversations on this board even about why not to do that.
So I guess what I'm saying is that even though I was young and dumb once, I don't think that way anymore, and I credit a decent portion of the things I've learned on this topic to the lovely ladies on this board. I was already partially there in my thought process, but the added information and experiences they've shared with us finished the job in the sense that I see it so much more now. Things I might not have ever questioned or noticed are so much more obvious to me. For example, I still remember two years ago when I was looking at that suspension stats by race for my son's school and I was like, "THIS IS SOME RACIST BULLSHIT." I don't know that my 10 year ago self would have recognized that. For my part, not only do I recognize these things myself, but I actively work to educate my kids to see those things, too, instead of shushing them and having them internalize their thoughts about race.
It's absolutely not enough, but I do think the first step is more and more people acknowledging these systemic ways our country is keeping racism alive because you can't even have a discussion or find a method of change without first determining a starting point. If you're going to argue that systemic racism doesn't exist, then how do you even get to the next step of finding a solution?
Post by Velar Fricative on Aug 15, 2014 16:39:56 GMT -5
Re: #3, millions of people don't care to understand their fortunate circumstances. They don't care about history. And they don't care about our Constitutional rights beyond the Second Amendment (which only pertains to white people, of course).
Everyone has to care. And once the protests in Ferguson boil over...well, you know how short our collective memories are. They'll just need to remember that Obama is black so what are black people complaining about when it's now been demonstrated that they can aspire to become POTUS?
My thoughts are all over the place. I'm very pessimistic but I really don't want to be.
Post by iammalcolmx on Aug 15, 2014 16:44:31 GMT -5
I think the Racism now is just different. And yeah we aren't slaves anymore and my marriage is no longer outlawed however this entire world has a long way to go.
Also to the OP I am not sure how familiar you are familiar with the Black women on the board but a disproportionate number of us seem to be married to White men. Additionally most of us have the luxury of being extremely Middle Class and well traveled so consider this when reading our responses.
I'm going to echo the subtlety and defensive that everyone else has said. The minute Obama comes up with my parents the first words out of their mouths is "I don't hate him because I'm racist." They also see nothing wrong with talking about the "Mexicans" stealing from them because they are not actual citizens. What's scary is the rest of my family is worse. My niece told me once that she's not allowed to talk to Mexicans or black people.
From my limited view, I really think the only way to hope to change anything is through conversation and education. Though that feels naive. I do know that everyone I'm around (except my bf) feels uncomfortable to talk about these things and I think that's a problem. Nothing can change if we sit here and ignore it.
Do you guys think we are better off today racially speaking, than ever before in our history?
I think this question speaks to why there are so many problems with racism today. People seem to think that because there are no shackles and black people aren't property, they have it so great now. Yet there's example after example after example and study after study after study that shows that this just isn't the case. We need to not only understand the history of racism in this country, but we also need to stop ranking periods because the "best" period to be black in America is probably now but what exactly does that tell us? That our work is done because my friends and I could drink from the same water fountain?
And I'll admit it, I don't trust old southern white people. I knew Paula Deen was racist before it was proven. Ain't hard.
For once, I can honestly say, I spit out my tea just now!
Seriously though, they don't like to hear it but Southern racism is a palpable thing. I do not think all southerners are racist, don't get me wrong. But racism is institutionalized here and flat out accepted. It's also deliberately ignored and swept under the rug.
Imo, the primary difference between southern racism and racism in other areas of the country, is that people in other areas of the country know they are fucking racist. People in the south from what I see say and think the most racist shit on earth and then swear to the core of their little hearts that not only did they not know it was racist but they still don't believe it's racist.
And they really, honestly don't. I think deep down some of them they don't want to know but by and large, they do not get it. I'm going to count 60% of the people I go to church with in this number and I love those people.
Again, look at Paula Deen and the reaction to her bullshit.
Do you guys think we are better off today racially speaking, than ever before in our history?
I think this question speaks to why there are so many problems with racism today. People seem to think that because there are no shackles and black people aren't property, they have it so great now. Yet there's example after example after example and study after study after study that shows that this just isn't the case. We need to not only understand the history of racism in this country, but we also need to stop ranking periods because the "best" period to be black in America is probably now but what exactly does that tell us? That our work is done because my friends and I could drink from the same water fountain?
I hear this. What I was trying to get to is that it seems like race relations haven't changed much since 60s honestly.
Oh race relations have changed drastically. The conscious racism has died back quite a bit. It's the systemic and unconscious racism that's still alive and kicking, if not more deep seated.
There was something else I read here the other day that was really really interesting. It was something to the effect of white people remain racist and don’t recognize it because as a racial group, whites aren’t encouraged to have a sense of belonging or brotherhood so we don’t understand when black people band together to say enough. That just doesn’t exist in the white community. That was the gist of it anyway, as one of the stumbling blocks to eliminating racism.
This caught my attention because I think there is truth to it. White communities don’t rally around or bond over being white. We don’t teach our kids that they belong to white community at large. I suppose this is probably because doing so would be considered horribly taboo.
Oh race relations have changed drastically. The conscious racism has died back quite a bit. It's the systemic and unconscious racism that's still alive and kicking, if not more deep seated.
And that's the worst because it's there, but if it gets called out, everyone goes, "The President is Black! You lie!"
Post by EllieArroway on Aug 15, 2014 17:04:53 GMT -5
I was in college before I had a clue about the racial issues that this country still faces. Since that time I feel like my eyes have been opened to all sorts of things that I did not know were happening. Ten years ago I definitely would have said that we were post-racial. I had no idea. And unfortunately, I think that most white people are still clueless. (At least the ones I know.)
Growing up I was taught that America is post-racial. That the only race problem we still have is that "some people" won't get over slavery and allow us to move on. That affirmative action is no longer necessary and is actually a form of reverse racism. I grew up with people who truly believe that they aren't racist because they do not say the n-word and because they are polite to the black people they come across. (Which doesn't happen often. The town I grew up in is 97% white, .9% black.)
I don't know if we can "overcome" racism. We have so many problems. Where do we even start? And like summer already said, most white people don't even acknowledge the problems at all. How do you fix things that people refuse to admit are broken?
Oh race relations have changed drastically. The conscious racism has died back quite a bit. It's the systemic and unconscious racism that's still alive and kicking, if not more deep seated.
And that's the worst because it's there, but if it gets called out, everyone goes, "The President is Black! You lie!"
Yup. I touched on that in the Ferguson thread. Even before Obama, white folks have a tendency to point to some thing over there are a reason why this country isn't racist anymore.
Tiger Woods plays one white golf courses. Jay Z makes lots of money. Bey is top of the charts. Some random black dude is a head doctor at some hospital.
Nevermind that there are actually verified studies that show that there are more black folks in prison than whites, that we are given harsher sentences, more likely to be convicted, less likely to believed on the stand. Our children are more likely to live in poverty, more likely to be arrested when stopped by the cops, more likely to be sent to the principal's office, to be suspended, to be expelled. Less likely to get into college, less likely to know the process of getting into college, etc.
Verified studies typed out in black and white over and over again. But nah, man.
Plus, I mean really, if we just stopped having babies out of wedlock, if we had access to abortion, if our kids would just stay in damned school, we'd be fine.
There was something else I read here the other day that was really really interesting. It was something to the effect of white people remain racist and don’t recognize it because as a racial group, whites aren’t encouraged to have a sense of belonging or brotherhood so we don’t understand when black people band together to say enough. That just doesn’t exist in the white community. That was the gist of it anyway, as one of the stumbling blocks to eliminating racism.
This caught my attention because I think there is truth to it. White communities don’t rally around or bond over being white. We don’t teach our kids that they belong to white community at large. I suppose this is probably because doing so would be considered horribly taboo.
I don't know that it's that Black people have a "community" that makes people racist. Racists have never cared about any sense of community, I don't think. They just think we're lazy, shiftless, oversexed criminals.
Why on earth would this be a trap? You guys may not like me around here, but these are genuine questions.
Sometimes I feel like both blacks and whites are victims to their cultural norms and we may never escape racism.
Because you came out acting a plum fool at first? Yanno, 1st impressions and all.
Lol- well we disagree on that.
You didn’t like what I had to say and that’s ok with me. I’m not here to trap anyone though, I just enjoy the discussions. I’ll warn you now, I’m likely to disagree with a lot around here though, because I’m not a bleeding heart liberal as the majority seems to be.
I don’t like Pres. Obama
I’m worried about Climate change
I think racism is a real problem today in America
I feel badly for most police officers who get flamed to the stone age in light of a few bad apples
I don’t believe corporations are people
I believe in abortion
I think the pussification of America is real
I think women are inherently smarter than men but we are our own downfall