I think that spending that money on private school is not a good idea. But for us it would change our budget too much and we would never be able to have more then one child.
I honestly think that if you send you kid to a public school and you help your child get through his homework and make sure you become involved with their school then you don't need to spend that extra money on private school.
I also know that public school bs private school is a little different here in Canada then it is in the states.
*i never read any of the other posts, and I do not have kids.*
Plus, if he makes friends with a wealthy crowd, will you be able to fund school break trips and the like? Just something to think about. You don't want to feel like the "poor kid" or the odd one out.
This is actually a serious factor for me too! I don't want my kid to feel like the poor one. We aren't poor by normal standards, and I think in a public school -he'd be the norm.
But at the private schools in our area? I could VERY well see him being the "poor" one.
I also agree with the person who mentioned life experiences. There is so much more to "education" than just what you get in the classroom. We love to travel - and even if it's just a road trip to the beach, we like to go somewhere at least twice a year. I see DS, at just 5, taking a lot of this is and getting a lot from the experiences.
Reading through the replies what strikes me is that if he goes to a private school he will learn in a smaller world -- fairly homogeneous group of students, limited ability to travel as a family, no siblings etc. Whereas if he goes to public he will learn in a bigger world -- presumably more diverse student body, family travel, possible siblings, etc. I *think* I would opt for the latter. All that said, as a publicly educated person, I've always wondered about the connections people make in a fancy private school and the opportunities that offers to them later in life.
I attended small, private schools my entire life. I felt like I missed out on something bigger during the elementary and middle school years. However, HS is really where I noticed the difference b/w my experiences vs my BFF who went to the local public HS. But, it also depends on the type of private HS you attend since not all are equal.
My parents REALLY value education. I grew up in one of the roughest parts of NW DC, and my parents enrolled me in public school for K-8. Sure, I went out of district, on the "good" side of town, but it was still a DCPS, with all the crap that came with it. However, my parents and many of the other parents were very involved, and that made a difference for all of us. It also helped me grow up with a broader world view - I had diversity in my neighborhood (actually, very little diversity, I was the glaring minority), at school, and my parents were able to spend $$ on international travel and a fairly pricey summer camp. When the time came for HS, there wasn't any doubt that I would succeed academically at the public (out of district) HS, but I honestly didn't think I'd find my niche in a 2000+ person school, so I chose private. A very progressive, also diverse private school (turning down admission to other more prestigious schools because the lack of diversity and focus on all-Ivy didn't appeal to me). At that point, my parents were willing to shell out the $$, and continued to do so for private college as well. HS is where I really became the person I am academically and I will do the same for my kids - public, then let them decide what works for them for HS.
I definitely agree that parental involvement, plus some genetics are really what dictates how successful someone will be academically. And don't feel like if you don't get him into private now, you've missed your chance FOREVER. It doesn't work that way.
OK, one last thought: as of right now, we have no desire to move to the suburbs. I have done some initial research and discovered that by the time we pay the higher property taxes and deal with longer commutes that require driving, plus increased driving for errands that are currently walkable from us, the difference between the cost of living in a "good" public school district and sending E to private school is not huge.
I posted something comparing public-vs-private for colleges on MM. Paying full price for a private liberal arts school probably has negative ROI when you count the opportunity cost of 4-5 years of working. But private research universities and engineering schools are still worth it.
I think the point I've made in public/private k-12 threads that if you don't start private right away, you will have more money to do have DS do educational & extracurricular things. Vacations that are semi-educational, nerd camps or sports camps, private music lessons, etc. I grew up in Atlanta, which I'm betting had lots of issues with the city SD similar to Houston. I knew a number of people growing up who did public K-5 or K-8, and then private high school. That always struck me as a good option. Especially because the quality gap in US high schools is much much bigger than the quality gap in elementary or middle schools.
The dirty secret of American public education is that you can find pretty good schools in many school districts, even in many urban school districts. But it's probably hardest in big city districts in the South. Maybe parts of the midwest as well (I've heard some crazy percentage of CPS students are title I eligible).
Post by oliviapope on Aug 20, 2014 11:36:07 GMT -5
This is a tough call because of his age. I was totally you when my kid was 18 months. My husband was totally your husband. Here is what I learned:
Education is a tough parenting area. Just because you live near a "good" or even "the best" school (public or private) does not mean it will be right for your kid. Take the tours, put your kid where you feel it is best. Take each year as it comes and make your decision then.
If you are going to pay daycare anyway-then try the private school and see if it works. That way you can always have a choice.
I don't see this as a "how much do you love your kid," nor do I think giving my future kids the best education possible is the #1, most important goal. It's surely important, but there are other considerations. In my case, and it sounds like maybe in yours too, giving the best education humanly possible would come with a lot of costs--parental availability, vacations, experiences, siblings, etc. I would not jump to the conclusion that it's worth all that. I agree that a kid with involved parents can excel in a public school that's only ok. We are firmly Team Public School, flawed and all, unless we have a child that has some very specific demonstrated need that public school can't fulfill. "But it's the very best" isn't worth $30k/year for elementary to me.
Post by turtlegirl on Aug 20, 2014 11:43:52 GMT -5
I cannot to relate to any of this at all. Private school never even crossed my mind. But we live in a nice suburb with pretty good schools. Our kids are currently zoned to go the the "worst" elementary school in our town. But from what I understand that just means it's the school with the most diversity and ESL students. But from talking to a few friends who have kids that go there and people who have taught there I'm not worried at all. It's also the smallest school in the town and has great parent involvement. So I'm happy with our choice still.
Post by noodleskooze on Aug 20, 2014 11:49:59 GMT -5
Well, I work in a private school, but I make so little that we will have no choice but to send our kids to public school. Our current district is not great, but not awful, but what can we do? We have discussed moving in the next 6-7 years, so school districts will be a large consideration then.
Post by Dumbledork on Aug 20, 2014 11:58:23 GMT -5
We don't have the cash for private school, but she attending what they call a choice school and I think we'd go that route even if we did have the cash for private. By choice, I think they really mean magnet, as it's a public school that you have to apply and be selected in order to attend. She'll be learning Chinese in it and it's an awesome school.
DH attended public elementary, private middle school, and finished with home schooling in HS. He also prefers to keep DD in a high quality public school regardless of our cash flow. He has an extremely negative view on private school despite having met his two closest friends there.
The way we see it, if she can attend an awesome public school, the cash we would use towards private school can be used to enrich other aspects of her life. She can attend a better dance studio, go on cool climbing and camping trips with DH, travel to fun places with us when she's older. Try to give her equal real life experiences to learn from to match her school experiences and lessons.
We are definitely doing public elementary school because we live right next to a very good school. However, the middle school is supposed to be awful. We are thinking about private for middle school. However, there is a well-respected person in our community that is pushing for "all the way through" - meaning, grouping parents together and putting the kids through public all the way through. He is already meeting with the principals, administrators, etc. and trying to come up with ways to make the schools better. I think this is wonderful and I plan to contact him to see what I can do to help. The private schools around here are already $24k-ish a year and that just isn't happening for two kids.
I am VERY concerned about our kids being the "poor" kids if we go private. There is so much money in my area, it is almost sickening. I don't want my kids to grow up feeling like they were always the ones left behind.
Post by DarcyLongfellow on Aug 20, 2014 12:02:25 GMT -5
We had a similar decision to make. We lived in a different county when DD1 was born, and we were zoned for what was considered a "good" public school for the district, but it wasn't great. Very over-crowded, resources (PE, art, etc.) had been cut down so you got one resource once a week. Not a great situation.
Private schools in my area quickly get to $30,000 a year too. They're lower for Kindergarten and early primary (like, maybe $12,000 and up to around $17,000 by late elementary), but middle and high schools are $30,000.
Instead of putting all of that money into private school, we decided to move. We moved to the next county over, and it has one of the best school systems in the state (of course, Florida generally isn't known for great public schools).
DD1 starts kindergarten on Friday, so I don't have first hand experience yet, but so far I'm very happy with our choice. The private schools do offer some stuff that public schools can't, such as less standardized testing, smaller class sizes, more individual attention. But I'm okay with the trade offs. And I don't just mean money. I feel like a lot of times kids do better in public school because they aren't coddled as much. There's also a tendency for prestigious and expensive private schools to let kids get away with stuff because mom and dad are paying so much to send their kids there that they expect to not be challenged and to be able to do what they want.
ETA: I realized after I wrote the last bit that it sounded very judgy. I don't mean it that way -- I know a lot of kids to great in private schools, and there are some wonderful private schools. I was thinking in particular of a little girl from DD1's pre-K class who is starting at a very expensive private school this year. The child doesn't play well with others, and mom and dad are sort of detached and love her dearly but let her get away with murder. I made a comment to a friend that she was going to this private school, and maybe they'd get her to start behaving. The friend (who is a child counselor and has seen kids from all the area schools) laughed and said that no way -- that school would let her continue to get away with whatever she wanted. So that's jading my perspective. :-)
I'm not at this decision point yet for DS but can offer my own experience. I went to private school up until high school. I attended gifted classes from first grade through twelfth. I had small class sizes and was doing advanced math and writing novellas at a relatively young age. However, I did not graduate from my public high school in the top 10%. The top 2 students attended public school the whole way through. It's about more than the school. I'm of the opinion that you give your kids the best you can afford. And if $30K keeps you from aspects of your life, then you can't afford it.
In your shoes I'd seriously look into the pre-K at the private school while testing/applying to other public options. But I'm someone that appreciates a good Plan B and Plan C. The pre-K doesn't cost $30K right? Because that's ridiculous.
Our kids go to private school. It is about $12k a year per kid now for pre-K and first. It creeps up to $15k by middle school and $17-18k by high school (we're in LCOL). We have three kids, so we will be spending in the neighborhood of $40-50k a year on private schools at some point. We can afford it, but we are definitely not swimming in it to the point that money is not even a consideration, and obviously we could do a lot of other things with that money, like more and better travel. But our public schools are crappy (worse than HISD overall, IMO). And H and I both went to private schools (his far more expensive than the schools our kids will attend), so paying for private school seems "normal" to us. All that said, I would never consider someone selfish for not paying for private school unless perhaps they were prioritizing expensive spa treatments and adult-only luxury vacations while send their kid to a really sub-par school or something. I know we would have prioritized a second child over private school if forced to make the choice.
On a side note, is it really $30k to do private? My close friend's kids are in private school in Houston (Kincaid), and I know they are not paying that much. I think their tuition is around $18k for the lower grades, and they are very happy with the school. I know that after and summer care will add to that, but you would have to pay for that if you went with public school anyway, right? I get that $20k is still a lot of money, though. I don't mean to split hairs...
DD1 starts kindergarten on Friday, so I don't have first hand experience yet, but so far I'm very happy with our choice. The private schools do offer some stuff that public schools can't, such as less standardized testing, smaller class sizes, more individual attention. But I'm okay with the trade offs. And I don't just mean money. I feel like a lot of times kids do better in public school because they aren't coddled as much. There's also a tendency for prestigious and expensive private schools to let kids get away with stuff because mom and dad are paying so much to send their kids there that they expect to not be challenged and to be able to do what they want.
ETA: I realized after I wrote the last bit that it sounded very judgy. I don't mean it that way -- I know a lot of kids to great in private schools, and there are some wonderful private schools. I was thinking in particular of a little girl from DD1's pre-K class who is starting at a very expensive private school this year. The child doesn't play well with others, and mom and dad are sort of detached and love her dearly but let her get away with murder. I made a comment to a friend that she was going to this private school, and maybe they'd get her to start behaving. The friend (who is a child counselor and has seen kids from all the area schools) laughed and said that no way -- that school would let her continue to get away with whatever she wanted. So that's jading my perspective. :-)
This is so not the case. Every private school we toured, and the one we ended up at, challenge and discipline. And they don't put up with parents saying 'well we pay to send our kids here, so they can do what they want'. They would be like okay, see you later, you're out. This case you are talking about is definitely not the norm.
I always wonder why there is so much private school hate in general. I get it in real life, and it comes across that way on here too (not this post, but on this board). Every family has to make the right choice for their kids, and for some families that is choosing private over public.
My husband and I both agree we are using public schools unless we know they won't be able to meet the needs of our children. Sounds like that is the tough part for you so many years in advance. But I would take the gamble that public will be fine or an acceptable private can be located when the time comes over paying extra now.
This is where we are as well-- we moved to a neighborhood with good public schools and hope that they will work for our kids, but if they don't, we'll reconsider.
I went to one of my city's "fancier" private schools and had an amazing experience, so I get where your DH is coming from. But I agree with you that tuition inflation has outpaced income, and don't want to pay $25K for kindergarten if we don't have to.
There's also a tendency for prestigious and expensive private schools to let kids get away with stuff because mom and dad are paying so much to send their kids there that they expect to not be challenged and to be able to do what they want.
This is very, VERY much the experience of my family members who works at private schools and the expectations of them as teachers from administration. I'm also jaded, but again this is from a very prestigious school in their area.
Lol. Not at our private school. At all.
And we have a celebrity whose kids are in my sons class and I know she donates a lot of money to the school and her kids don't get away with whatever they want either.
I will say I went to one of the worst schools in the country and am a pretty darn successful attorney who didn't go top 10 but did go top 25 for law schools, and on paper have a better career than most of my fancy elementary - high school friends. Based on my experiences, I just can't limit my family size or commit that kind of money to have the best of the best for elementary school.
This is my issue. Sure, maybe being Puerto Rican had to do with it, but I got into a better law school than DH, despite me going to a Christian school that taught creationism and DH going to a vastly superior school. I think we are also a study in the fact that not all private schools are created equal (neither of us went to a public school for a day of our lives).
But education isn't just about what job you get, and my DH has a vastly superior education to me. He knows a LOT of shit. He was fluent in Mandarin by the time he was out of high school. He can conjugate Latin, he tested out of so many econ classes in his college, there weren't enough classes left to get a major.
I know nothing is a guarantee, it's about giving your kid an advantage. I'm just not sure the advantage is big enough to justify the cost.
It's a hard call. These all sound like a lot of fancy things to be able to claim in life. And I'm sure they have a lot of intrinsic worth that I may be undervaluing. But I wouldn't give $30k a year for the next 13 or however many years to be able to say I could do/did any of them. I certainly wouldn't give up having a second child for any of them (of course, this is deeply personal, and I strongly want a second kid).
Also, there's the whole not knowing what he missed by not going down whatever other path by his parents choosing the one they did thing.
There was another point I was going to address and forgot...ah, yes! To all of the people saying they'd rather spend money on college.... what about the fact that most studies show that earlier years are more important long term? Building a good foundation, etc.? Along the same lines, the private high schools here tend to be religious... so we'd rather not do public until high school and then switch. And the one religious high school we'd be most likely to consider is so out of the way it would require us to move.
I think that the advantages from attending a good college (networking, reputation) can't be found in kindergarten. I don't really think the educational value of a school is that vastly different, but then again, I come from a 100% different educational climate. I think early years are important, to the point that they allow your child to meet their potential. I don't think they can really change that potential.
I'm in the "within reason" camp. We do not save for college and probably won't until we at least pay off our student loans and E is out of daycare. She will go to public school. I would not pay $30k a year for school if there was a viable public option. No freaking way. We also won't let our retirement savings or vacations suffer for the sake of saving for college or private tuition if there was another option. We purposely purchased out home in the district we did so we wouldn't have to consider this. I don't think it's selfish at all.
FWIW, I would not assume that Houston's best private schools aren't worth it or even that they aren't comparable to Northeastern prep schools. I went to private school in Oklahoma and then went to a top 10 college and law school where a ton of my friends went to elite prep schools. My best friend from law school went to Andover. My H went to a fancy DC prep school. My college roommate went to private school in Houston. I would say that those of us that went to private schools in the South or middle of the country received very similar educations and had very similar experiences in most cases to those who went to well-known East Coast prep schools. I can certainly say that my education was very much on par with DH's at a much more expensive, much more well-known private school.
I am not saying that means you should pay for private school--that is a tough call. But having known several people who went to private school in Houston, I am confident that at least some of them are worth the price tag.
Post by redheadbaker on Aug 20, 2014 12:47:37 GMT -5
The public schools near me are not great, some are downright dangerous, but I wouldn't -- couldn't -- pay that much for elementary school.
I wouldn't rule out religious schools. I went to 12 years of Catholic school, and there were definitely kids of other/no faiths enrolled. Some were my closest friends; they definitely weren't ostracized our ridiculed for it.
Off topic, but are people really learning Mandarin at these schools? Of all the people I know who went to schools that taught Mandarin (myself included), I know no one who actually speaks it. My friend who went to Andover doesn't speak another language at all. Maybe she was just a huge failure?
Post by formerlyllizzyb on Aug 20, 2014 13:01:00 GMT -5
Haven't read any responses.
This is what I would do...
I guess we could do pre-K (at great cost and inconvenience) for a year or two, then do the GT test and see if he gets in, and if not, he's in the private school already.
Oh and also - don't forget to factor in things like tuition increases and donations. If it's 30k/yr now, it'll probably be more like 40k by the time he is through high school.
Plus, if he makes friends with a wealthy crowd, will you be able to fund school break trips and the like? Just something to think about. You don't want to feel like the "poor kid" or the odd one out.
30k is a bit of an average already. Tuition right now is "only" like 15-17k, before some additional fees, another 1,000 for field trip, whatever. High school tuition at the schools we're looking at now is about 22-24, but I think some of the after school care will go down.
I'm totally fine with L being the poor kid. He will have to learn to overcome something in his overprivileged life.
Okay, so I think doubling the tuition from $15k to $30k is a jump. We pay $17 for tuition now, and then when we add in lunch, uniforms, books, and donations it probably adds, at most, $2000. And that is being generous. What field trips are you thinking they are going to do in pre-k that cost $1k? I understand that middle and high school are more but you have no idea where you will be at that point, either financially, physically or you could decide to go the G&T route if your child fits that. I do know that after school care costs extra, but, for example, at our school if you do early drop off in the morning, plus extended day is $3400 for the year, about $850 less if you do the normal drop off, which starts at 7:45. So even with the highest worst case scenarios the total is like $22k. Expensive? Absolutely. But not $30k.
I guess we could do pre-K (at great cost and inconvenience) for a year or two, then do the GT test and see if he gets in, and if not, he's in the private school already.
This is what I'm leaning towards.  Of course, then we have to decide which one since the schools we like less start earlier, maybe we can stagger it.  Put him into the bilingual pre-K choice #3 at 3 years old, try for choice #2 at 4 and hope he gets into choice #1 or a G&T program at 5. LOL.
I'm probably too lazy for that, but given that pre-K is the easiest time to get in and our top 3-4 choices start at different ages, I'm still feeling very much like I need to decide on a path soon. Â Which is stupid and not actually the case, I know.
I'd so much rather leave him in my cheap, awesome, and convenient daycare in the building until kindergarten, but then I really think that restricts our options greatly come K. Â I guess we could do a last minute move into a better school district then.
We've also considered either renting an apartment in a better district or telling DH's parents to buy a house there and using that address (they've mentioned buying a house in Houston a few times).
I understand. I have a 2 y/o DS and am pg with #2 and I'm already laying awake at night thinking about schooling. DS is in a great preschool this fall and he will continue there through pre-K, but then we have decisions to make for kindergarten. Do we private school? Send him to our public neighborhood school that is good but feeds into a less desirable middle school? Apply for one of two charter elementaries and then move for middle school, so we don't have to uproot him mid elementary? Should we move before K? Etc. Or is the middle school really ok and I'm being a snob and should just go with it for 3 years.
Okay, so I think doubling the tuition from $15k to $30k is a jump. We pay $17 for tuition now, and then when we add in lunch, uniforms, books, and donations it probably adds, at most, $2000. And that is being generous. What field trips are you thinking they are going to do in pre-k that cost $1k? I understand that middle and high school are more but you have no idea where you will be at that point, either financially, physically or you could decide to go the G&T route if your child fits that. I do know that after school care costs extra, but, for example, at our school if you do early drop off in the morning, plus extended day is $3400 for the year, about $850 less if you do the normal drop off, which starts at 7:45. So even with the highest worst case scenarios the total is like $22k. Expensive? Absolutely. But not $30k.
I'm picking a number that would average out from now to HS. It's not scientific, for sure.
For one of the schools we're looking at for pre-K: 16,300 tuition 800 for a new family fee 240 book fee 250 registration 1,250 capital building fee 6,000 for after school care for the year ________
This does not include any uniforms or field trips. So we're at 26,000 quite easily before any fundraising/donations. And from ages 3-5, when he could be in daycare in my building for all 12 months, the summer care fees are absolutely 100% extra money that would otherwise not be spent. So my 30k is not that far off, but yeah, we'd still be paying 10,000 for daycare.
There will be yearly tuition increases, the older grades cost more, and the more expensive field trips and sports start. So I chose a number that is somewhat representative of the cost for 13 years.
I think you are way overestimating field trips. Every private school I know includes the cost of field trips in the tuition, but even if they don't the kind of field trips they take in kindergarten are like trips to the zoo or to a museum, not a 3 night camping trip.
I get your point, and I am nitpicking the details, but I think it is important to have a true sense of what it will cost and not an inflated average guess.
And generally capital building fees/capital campaigns are not an every year type of thing, but maybe this school is different.
The after school costs/summer costs are a fixed cost, whether you are in public or private. A public school doesn't watch your kids for free once school ends.
I just think your numbers are more realistic for middle and high school than for elementary, which is what you are asking about.
I'd move to a district where I'd be comfortable sending my kids to public school. At least then you are investing in a house AND an education. I can't imagine spending $540k on education BEFORE my kid goes to college, and I would feel very resentful if that money kept me from having another child.
OK, sorry I was out for a while - pedi appointment. Some points:
-Neither of us wants to move too far into the burbs. We work about 10 hours a day and don't want to add to our commute. So the really good public school districts are out, and moving to the good districts that are close are like million+ dollar houses, so moving isn't an awesome option. We'd have to sell additional property (we currently have 2 investment properties in NYC, etc. There is a magnet with good test scores that is nearby and would only require moving a few blocks, but housing prices go up a fair amount. And even then, middle school options are not that great without being in the G&T program.
- Neither of us is comfortable with religious schools, so that cuts out a lot of the good private schools that are reasonably priced.
- DH went to one of the Northeast boarding schools, for comparison, so he keeps thinking all private schools are like that. I'm like.... um, no. Andover may be worth the crazy price tag, doesn't mean Houston's best school is.
I would move the few blocks. There's no guarantee that any school will be the same in 10 years when your kid is in middle school.
$30k a year would buy you a LOT of upgrade in home or neighborhood which I doubt would be entirely necessary.
Are you committed to staying in Houston? Is there another part of the country that would make sense?