Am I the only one who wouldn't mind being apart from my husband on a flight? He never brings anything to do (or he brings a book, then decides he doesn't feel like reading it), and then spends the entire flight looking over my shoulder at whatever I'm doing and sighing to get my attention so we can talk. Maybe I should book a flight on this airline. I'd get $50 and the joy of watching him entertain himself by observing his Saran-wrapped seat mate.
Thank God I am not the only one. The last thing I want to have to deal with on an eleven hour flight is someone whose feelings I am supposed to care about getting his panties into a twist because I am purposefully ignoring him.
Honestly, if this were just some random flight from NYC to London on American Airlines, and the passenger and airline approached me to ask if I'd switch seats, I'd treat it like any other person requesting a special accommodation - someone with an allergy or medical condition or whatever - and try to evaluate the situation reasonably and be a decent human being about it.
It doesn't make anyone an indecent person to say no to such a request. A religious preference invoking misogyny is not a medical condition, and I don't think anyone is called on to bear that patiently.
I mean, yes, the airline should get its shit together. I just disagree that in another context, assholery should be treated the same as an allergy.
I never disagree with you. WHAT IS HAPPENING?
If the offer results in me having a better seat out of the deal, I can overlook misogynistic religious beliefs. LOL
But my point was that I don't even expect everyone to even give up their seat if there's a medical condition involved or a parent is separated from their child and wants to sit near them or whatever the circumstances are. Just that people try to see the big picture. Airline travel sucks for all, and to the extent people are willing to extend small niceties towards others, that makes it easier for everyone. Shitty airline customer service is not any one person's cross to bear, and everyone has their limits, so I don't expect everyone to just bend over for any request, just that to the extent something is a trivial or fleeting inconvenience to you and can relieve a huge inconvenience for someone else, then people ought to try to see that.
In this instance, I can't really get behind this belief, but if I was approached politely and the offer was fair and not an inconvenience for me, I'd at least consider it, not for the person making the request, but for the sake of the poor woman who'd otherwise be subjected to sitting next to him.
I get the sense from the article that the Haredim were being major, major sanctimonious dickbags when they made the request/demand of various passengers. I would have said no too.
Really though, El Al should have escorted them off the flight and reworked the seating for the next flight if possible to accommodate them. Or the Haredim should have walked their happy asses off the fucking plane and then walked en mass to customer service and demanded the situation be resolved.
Using your religion to be a dickbag to the people around you is some fucking horseshit.
Post by iammalcolmx on Sept 26, 2014 17:41:56 GMT -5
Meh fuck it. My bourgeoisie ass flies Business. My husband sleeps the entire time wrapped in Westin heavenly bedding, shout out to Delta! I don't give two shits who I sit next to on long hauls. So being away from my husband is no issue.
Wikipedia is suggesting the Haredi are dickbags in general though. Someone should probably flame me for that but do they really have a history of being unreasonable chodes, defacing shit they don't like, clashing with the po po, and generally espousing a Jewish version of Shariah law, particularly in terms of being assholes at the mere mention of women?
It sounds like they were being over the top with their demands, but I can somewhat understand that it must be difficult for people of some religions to travel (note: I'm not condoning misogyny at all). When DH and a friend and I were traveling in Malaysia, our overnight train seats were assigned, and it happened that we were on one side of the aisle and our female friend was on the other side. A Buddhist monk came on board and was clearly assigned to sit with our friend. He managed to communicate that he wasn't able to, because they'd be touching, and DH and my friend switched.
I can understand making some accommodations, but this sounds pretty ridiculous.
It sounds like they were being over the top with their demands, but I can somewhat understand that it must be difficult for people of some religions to travel (note: I'm not condoning misogyny at all). When DH and a friend and I were traveling in Malaysia, our overnight train seats were assigned, and it happened that we were on one side of the aisle and our female friend was on the other side. A Buddhist monk came on board and was clearly assigned to sit with our friend. He managed to communicate that he wasn't able to, because they'd be touching, and DH and my friend switched.
I can understand making some accommodations, but this sounds pretty ridiculous.
This would also piss me off.
Meh. It's not as though he was asking that we be seriously inconvenienced. We were all still able to talk to each other.
Now, with this group, it seems like the group's ideological expectations go far beyond reasonable accommodation.
Meh. It's not as though he was asking that we be seriously inconvenienced. We were all still able to talk to each other.
Now, with this group, it seems like the group's ideological expectations go far beyond reasonable accommodation.
I'm baffled that people can find a discernible difference here. It's not about how much you are inconvenienced; it's about someone needing me to change something because their beliefs tell them I am unclean, or sinful, or morally wrong to be close to. Fuck that shit.
I would not move if I were black, or gay, or Jewish, or whatever else someone's conscience is telling them to avoid, so I'm damn sure not going to move simply because I have a vagina with me.
It isn't always about believing women are unclean or sinful. I don't know that much about Buddhism, but I've never heard anything about believing women are unclean by nature of being women. I don't believe the two situations are the same at all. This man very respectfully requested that a group that was obviously together make a fairly inconsequential change. We did and he was very kind to us and even tried to communicate with us. He just couldn't touch us.
It seems like the group in the article was the opposite of that situation.
Am I the only one who wouldn't mind being apart from my husband on a flight? He never brings anything to do (or he brings a book, then decides he doesn't feel like reading it), and then spends the entire flight looking over my shoulder at whatever I'm doing and sighing to get my attention so we can talk. Maybe I should book a flight on this airline. I'd get $50 and the joy of watching him entertain himself by observing his Saran-wrapped seat mate.
Thank God I am not the only one. The last thing I want to have to deal with on an eleven hour flight is someone whose feelings I am supposed to care about getting his panties into a twist because I am purposefully ignoring him.
Thank you. I am so glad I am not alone. I hate traveling with MH. He always wants to talk to me and reads over my shoulder and it drives me insane. Or even more annoying asks me repeatedly what I am reading and what is it about. I tune him out and he just doubles his efforts.
He can sit next to the crazy bag dude while I read in blissful peace.
How would he touch you? Was the only seat on your lap?
That's what I can't figure out.
Also, I thought Buddha died after eating not so fresh meat that he knew was not so fresh but ate it rather than offend his host? So it seems strange to me that the Buddhist monk wouldn't just sit there, very still in his seat rather than offend someone.
Meh. It's not as though he was asking that we be seriously inconvenienced. We were all still able to talk to each other.
Now, with this group, it seems like the group's ideological expectations go far beyond reasonable accommodation.
I'm baffled that people can find a discernible difference here. It's not about how much you are inconvenienced; it's about someone needing me to change something because their beliefs tell them I am unclean, or sinful, or morally wrong to be close to. Fuck that shit.
I would not move if I were black, or gay, or Jewish, or whatever else someone's conscience is telling them to avoid, so I'm damn sure not going to move simply because I have a vagina with me.
How would he touch you? Was the only seat on your lap?
That's what I can't figure out.
Also, I thought Buddha died after eating not so fresh meat that he knew was not so fresh but ate it rather than offend his host? So it seems strange to me that the Buddhist monk wouldn't just sit there, very still in his seat rather than offend someone.
But what do I know?
Maybe this is what he would have done if we'd said no. As it was, the whole exchange lasted about 30 seconds.
Sorry, if your religion tells you that I am too unclean to touch? Fuck you. Not moving. I am happy to accommodate a reasonable request, but this ain't it. I'd also announce very loudly that I was on my period even if I wasn't. That would have probably cleared the problem out, though.
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
I think it's kind of shitty to be all WHY SHOULD I MOVE in the face of accommodating someone's religion.
If I could move and still sit by my H or whoever I was traveling with sure. Otherwise; not my problem. It's kind of shitty to tell people they can't sit by women because we're inferior to men or whatever.
Also, as a side note from what I read on Wikipedia... women having to sit in the back of the bus is very similar to African Americans having to sit in the back. Why can't the men sit in the back? Because they're better than women?
The praying thing...so, really observant Jewish men pray A LOT. Like, multiple times a day. Depending on the time of the flight (i.e., which 12 hours they are flying), there are dudes (usually in the back of the plane, not the aisles) praying at all hours of the flight. I've been on a few El Al flights, and I've never seen men praying in the aisles.
Honestly, during the daytime flight, nobody stays in their damn seat anyway. Not for 12 hours.
Sorry, if your religion tells you that I am too unclean to touch? Fuck you. Not moving. I am happy to accommodate a reasonable request, but this ain't it. I'd also announce very loudly that I was on my period even if I wasn't. That would have probably cleared the problem out, though.
COME AT ME BRO.
/not sorry.
There is also a pov that the period thing is woman empowering (I really enjoyed the video about it).
Universal Precautions! Assume everyone has AIDS, every woman is having her period, every flight crosses over a cemetery.
does the bag apply to bus routes/land travel or just air?
And do they not visit cemeteries? How do they bury their dead if they can't go to one? Or can they only go to their own cemetaries?
MrsAJL can probably explain this better than I can but Kohens can't be around dead bodies due to the unclean state of a body. I was recently at a Jewish funeral and my friend (who's Orthodox, but not Hasidic) was explaining this little building that's separate from the rest of the funeral home. It's for the mourners who cannot be around a body - there's a live feed of the funeral shown in the little building so they can participate but not be in the same space.This explains it a bit. www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/543128/jewish/Is-a-Kohen-allowed-to-attend-the-funeral-of-a-loved-one.htm
Wikipedia is suggesting the Haredi are dickbags in general though. Someone should probably flame me for that but do they really have a history of being unreasonable chodes, defacing shit they don't like, clashing with the po po, and generally espousing a Jewish version of Shariah law, particularly in terms of being assholes at the mere mention of women?
Yeah, basically.
In Thailand they have separate areas on transportation and waiting areas for monks. That didn't bother me as its not like they were always the best spots and women were relegated to the back. Also, i think their mentality comes from keeping themselves pure of though rather than that women are dirty gross menstruating creatures.
And do they not visit cemeteries? How do they bury their dead if they can't go to one? Or can they only go to their own cemetaries?
MrsAJL can probably explain this better than I can but Kohens can't be around dead bodies due to the unclean state of a body. I was recently at a Jewish funeral and my friend (who's Orthodox, but not Hasidic) was explaining this little building that's separate from the rest of the funeral home. It's for the mourners who cannot be around a body - there's a live feed of the funeral shown in the little building so they can participate but not be in the same space.This explains it a bit. www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/543128/jewish/Is-a-Kohen-allowed-to-attend-the-funeral-of-a-loved-one.htm
Are there air holes in the bag, though? And how did that work before simulcast?
I think it's kind of shitty to be all WHY SHOULD I MOVE in the face of accommodating someone's religion.
If I could move and still sit by my H or whoever I was traveling with sure. Otherwise; not my problem. It's kind of shitty to tell people they can't sit by women because we're inferior to men or whatever.
Also, as a side note from what I read on Wikipedia... women having to sit in the back of the bus is very similar to African Americans having to sit in the back. Why can't the men sit in the back? Because they're better than women?
Exactly. And it pisses me the fuck off that they get away with harassing women who sit in the front on one of the PUBLIC bus lines in Brooklyn. I was told that they either stopped this or privatized that bus line but I'm skeptical. I'm living in Brooklyn now so maybe I should check, but unfortunately my period is winding down so things won't be as fun.
Exactly. And it pisses me the fuck off that they get away with harassing women who sit in the front on one of the PUBLIC bus lines in Brooklyn. I was told that they either stopped this or privatized that bus line but I'm skeptical. I'm living in Brooklyn now so maybe I should check, but unfortunately my period is winding down so things won't be as fun.
Just from googling, I think they are given entirely too much latitude on religious grounds, particularly since the hallmark of their religious grounds in particular is discrimination and ill treatment of women. Putting women in the back of the bus for instance instead of putting them on the right side of the aisle and the men on the left. Or the signage that says no women instead of men only or men on this side of the street, women on the other.
Also, the movie thing pisses me off. If you believe that watching films violates the tenets of your faith, then how about you bring an eye mask and some fucking ear plugs?
It seems to me that they want the freedom to inconvenience people as visually and obnoxiously as possible and no. I'm cool with reasonable accommodations that would allow others to practice their faith in the least obtrusive manner to those around them. I am not cool with this blatant, look at me, bullshit that treats those of a different faith as second class citizens while they go about their damned business.
Post by debatethis on Sept 26, 2014 21:34:52 GMT -5
@helenabonhamcarter there was a case a couple years ago of a bunch of Haredi men attacking an 8 year old girl in Israel (spitting on her) for not dressing modestly enough. If your religion condones that behavior, something's wrong.
@helenabonhamcarter there was a case a couple years ago of a bunch of Haredi men attacking an 8 year old girl in Israel (spitting on her) for not dressing modestly enough. If a rigid, fundamental, extreme interpretation ofyour religion condones that behavior, something's wrong.
FTFY
It's my religion too and in NO WAY is that behavior condoned in Judaism. Not in the Tanakh. Not in the Talmud.