Ok, so when this first happened, I got into several heated arguments with my coworkers (one who is married to a cop) about the situation. Initially, I was for sure on the side of Mike Brown and from the initial news reports was very angry at the cop. BUT, then move evidence came out, the autopsy report, the full story... I feel like the decision of the jury not to indict is just.
On the other hand, I understand why people are rioting. And I think there need to be some deep conversations about race in this country It is really just a bad situation.
I think it's utter bullshit. Amy- it's rare not to indict except when it comes to police officers. I'm going to have to find the stats I read recently
Interesting.
I'm just so frustrated w/ the commentary on FB and by others - like Amy said, as much as rioting & looting, etc. is awful, I haven't been there. I can't even begin to imagine how it would feel to be so angry and so helpless.n
Post by penguingrrl on Nov 25, 2014 13:59:45 GMT -5
It's absolute bullshit. Only something like 1 in 11,000 cases seen before a GJ don't lead to an indictment. The number is different when it involves a police officer, but I still think it's always better to err on the side of a full trial.
I also think that the AG didn't do his due diligence and that's just not okay.
On the plus side, since there has been no indictment and no trial the door is open for the case to be reexamined (versus it going to trial and him being protected because it would be double jeopardy). I hope that someone finds cause to reopen the investigation and nail him to the fucking wall.
I don't condone rioting and destruction, but I also understand why it has come to this. Rioting is the voice of the voiceless and clearly peaceful demonstrations there were still met with riot gear, so why not riot at that point since it's what everyone expects.
Ok, so when this first happened, I got into several heated arguments with my coworkers (one who is married to a cop) about the situation. Initially, I was for sure on the side of Mike Brown and from the initial news reports was very angry at the cop. BUT, then move evidence came out, the autopsy report, the full story... I feel like the decision of the jury not to indict is just.
On the other hand, I understand why people are rioting. And I think there need to be some deep conversations about race in this country It is really just a bad situation.
He didn't have a weapon and Wilson has barely a scratch on his face. He was really in such danger that he had to shoot the man SIX times? No. That's excessive
Ok, so when this first happened, I got into several heated arguments with my coworkers (one who is married to a cop) about the situation. Initially, I was for sure on the side of Mike Brown and from the initial news reports was very angry at the cop. BUT, then move evidence came out, the autopsy report, the full story... I feel like the decision of the jury not to indict is just.
On the other hand, I understand why people are rioting. And I think there need to be some deep conversations about race in this country It is really just a bad situation.
From what I've read the evidence presented was not enough to indict. But that's because the AG in charge fucked up, not because there wasn't enough evidence.
Ok, so when this first happened, I got into several heated arguments with my coworkers (one who is married to a cop) about the situation. Initially, I was for sure on the side of Mike Brown and from the initial news reports was very angry at the cop. BUT, then move evidence came out, the autopsy report, the full story... I feel like the decision of the jury not to indict is just.
On the other hand, I understand why people are rioting. And I think there need to be some deep conversations about race in this country It is really just a bad situation.
He didn't have a weapon and Wilson has barely a scratch on his face. He was really in such danger that he had to shoot the man SIX times? No. That's excessive
I see where you're coming from. But, all of this was in hindsight. The cop didn't know that he didn't have a weapon. And as far as the six times thing, that is pretty common. You would be hard pressed to find a situation where a cop did NOT completely unload his weapon once he shot. A similar situation happened locally and everyone was up in arms because the cop shot the guy 8 times. It is really common.
He didn't have a weapon and Wilson has barely a scratch on his face. He was really in such danger that he had to shoot the man SIX times? No. That's excessive
I see where you're coming from. But, all of this was in hindsight. The cop didn't know that he didn't have a weapon. And as far as the six times thing, that is pretty common. You would be hard pressed to find a situation where a cop did NOT completely unload his weapon once he shot. A similar situation happened locally and everyone was up in arms because the cop shot the guy 8 times. It is really common.
No, the cop didn't know he didn't have a weapon. But why would the default assumption be that he *did* have a weapon? If it was a white teenager this incident never would have happened.
I see where you're coming from. But, all of this was in hindsight. The cop didn't know that he didn't have a weapon. And as far as the six times thing, that is pretty common. You would be hard pressed to find a situation where a cop did NOT completely unload his weapon once he shot. A similar situation happened locally and everyone was up in arms because the cop shot the guy 8 times. It is really common.
Just because something is common doesn't make it right.
Black men getting shot by cops is common....
I don't disagree, I'm just saying that concentrating on the fact that he was shot 6 times is a moot point. 1 time or 6 times -- it is really the same. If that makes any sense.
Post by rosesandpetals on Nov 25, 2014 14:30:51 GMT -5
The whole situation is awful and I feel so badly for his family. I think it is BS that they waited until 8pm to announce it and I really think they just wanted to point to the riots as a way to justify everything, like "see, this place is full of maniacs, we were right to not indict."
There is a similar case going on in the town next to me. Someone called 911 and said a black man was walking around walmart with a gun and was aiming it at little kids. The cops came in and shot (and killed) him. He did have a BB gun that he was going to buy but the guy who called in was making up everything else. The security footage is damning but they aren't doing anything about it. It seems like these situations keep happening and nothing is being done.
I see where you're coming from. But, all of this was in hindsight. The cop didn't know that he didn't have a weapon. And as far as the six times thing, that is pretty common. You would be hard pressed to find a situation where a cop did NOT completely unload his weapon once he shot. A similar situation happened locally and everyone was up in arms because the cop shot the guy 8 times. It is really common.
No, the cop didn't know he didn't have a weapon. But why would the default assumption be that he *did* have a weapon? If it was a white teenager this incident never would have happened.
I can't answer that. But I would venture a good guess that the cop only shot him because he felt threatened--for whatever reason. I would say that most cops don't WANT to shoot anyone. All the cops I know (and I know SEVERAL) say having to shoot someone (or even draw their weapon) is a huge fear that keeps them up at night.
White teenagers get shot by cops all the time. White men, black men, etc. etc. Just in my immediate area I can think of four instances in the past 6 months where a cop has shot someone. These instances just don't make national news. I think that the racial tension between the police force and the citizens in Ferguson really exacerbated this situation.
No, the cop didn't know he didn't have a weapon. But why would the default assumption be that he *did* have a weapon? If it was a white teenager this incident never would have happened.
I can't answer that. But I would venture a good guess that the cop only shot him because he felt threatened--for whatever reason. I would say that most cops don't WANT to shoot anyone. All the cops I know (and I know SEVERAL) say having to shoot someone (or even draw their weapon) is a huge fear that keeps them up at night.
White teenagers get shot by cops all the time. White men, black men, etc. etc. Just in my immediate area I can think of four instances in the past 6 months where a cop has shot someone. These instances just don't make national news. I think that the racial tension between the police force and the citizens in Ferguson really exacerbated this situation.
I know that not all cops want to shoot someone and that to do so is a life altering tragedy. I have police officers in my family and am well aware that the vast majority of police are truly out there to protect everyone.
The reason this case made the news is that this young man was unarmed and was in the process of trying to surrender when shot (as stated by multiple eyewitnesses). He was unarmed and Wilson claimed to feel threatened by him because he was so large when he was about 2 inches taller than Wilson.
I don't disagree that race relations in the area were such that it was a powderkeg ready to explode and this was the spark that lit it, but I do think that it also got attention because there was no clear cut reason Wilson stopped Brown to begin with (it wasn't until after the stop started that news came in over the radio that there had been a robbery in the area) other than jaywalking and a jaywalking stop for an unarmed teen should not end in the teen's death.
Is beantrees going to be the chickencoop of this conversation? Why is there always someone defending blatantly racist shootings?
No, chicken coop is in a league of her own.
I'm guessing whoever she has been chatting with has really impacted the way she feels about this. We are all entitled to our opinions just please don't start with the all black men are scary stuff.
I guess because there are always two sides to every story?
@tooshort you are right... I have several family members that are cops. And friends as well. I would say I know personally upwards of 15+ cops. And I want to reiterate when this first came out I was livid about the situation too!! Even though everyone around automatically took the side of the cop, I had doubts. Because I KNOW that profiling happens. I know that there are racist/prejudice cops. I know that there are cops out there that say they aren't racist, that truly believe they aren't racist, but society has ingrained terrible subconscious prejudices into their mind that make them racist without even realizing it. I get it--I understand that happens. And I think something needs to be done. But this particular situation, after the evidence came out, I truly believe that even if he was white, the same thing would have happened. I don't think it's fair to paint Darren Wilson as a racist monster just like I don't think it's fair to paint Mike Brown as a trouble making thug.
I can't answer that. But I would venture a good guess that the cop only shot him because he felt threatened--for whatever reason. I would say that most cops don't WANT to shoot anyone. All the cops I know (and I know SEVERAL) say having to shoot someone (or even draw their weapon) is a huge fear that keeps them up at night.
White teenagers get shot by cops all the time. White men, black men, etc. etc. Just in my immediate area I can think of four instances in the past 6 months where a cop has shot someone. These instances just don't make national news. I think that the racial tension between the police force and the citizens in Ferguson really exacerbated this situation.
I know that not all cops want to shoot someone and that to do so is a life altering tragedy. I have police officers in my family and am well aware that the vast majority of police are truly out there to protect everyone.
The reason this case made the news is that this young man was unarmed and was in the process of trying to surrender when shot (as stated by multiple eyewitnesses). He was unarmed and Wilson claimed to feel threatened by him because he was so large when he was about 2 inches taller than Wilson.
I don't disagree that race relations in the area were such that it was a powderkeg ready to explode and this was the spark that lit it, but I do think that it also got attention because there was no clear cut reason Wilson stopped Brown to begin with (it wasn't until after the stop started that news came in over the radio that there had been a robbery in the area) other than jaywalking and a jaywalking stop for an unarmed teen should not end in the teen's death.
But weren't those eyewitness accounts disproved? Some of them blatant lies?
I just think it is a hard situation in general. What's the answer though? Different training of cops? Take their guns away?
I know that not all cops want to shoot someone and that to do so is a life altering tragedy. I have police officers in my family and am well aware that the vast majority of police are truly out there to protect everyone.
The reason this case made the news is that this young man was unarmed and was in the process of trying to surrender when shot (as stated by multiple eyewitnesses). He was unarmed and Wilson claimed to feel threatened by him because he was so large when he was about 2 inches taller than Wilson.
I don't disagree that race relations in the area were such that it was a powderkeg ready to explode and this was the spark that lit it, but I do think that it also got attention because there was no clear cut reason Wilson stopped Brown to begin with (it wasn't until after the stop started that news came in over the radio that there had been a robbery in the area) other than jaywalking and a jaywalking stop for an unarmed teen should not end in the teen's death.
But weren't those eyewitness accounts disproved? Some of them blatant lies?
I just think it is a hard situation in general. What's the answer though? Different training of cops? Take their guns away?
No, the testimony was not disproven. Instead they discredited the character of those testifying (the equivalent of pointing out that the girl wouldn't have been raped if her skirt hadn't been so short it tempted the boys).
But weren't those eyewitness accounts disproved? Some of them blatant lies?
I just think it is a hard situation in general. What's the answer though? Different training of cops? Take their guns away?
No, the testimony was not disproven. Instead they discredited the character of those testifying (the equivalent of pointing out that the girl wouldn't have been raped if her skirt hadn't been so short it tempted the boys).
I thought the prosecutor in the press conference last night gave a specific example of this? He said that the eyewitness accounts said that the Darren Wilson stood over him and shot him in the back several times and when the autopsy report came out those witnesses changed their stories? Some of them even admitting that didn't actually see it, they were just saying what their neighbor had heard.
I am only going to comment on the 8:00 pm announcement time.
This decision was made so that people could safely commute home from work and school and be off the streets. You all saw this shitshow that took place within MINUTES of the verdict. Imagine this was announced at 3:00 when kids were on their way home from school. Or 5:30 when people were commuting. I don't know how many of you live here or around here but the outrage of the announcement time is seriously the least of the problems.
One of my husand's company's branches was burned to the ground. 80+ people were arrested. People lost their businesses and livelihoods right before Christmas. Nobody won. NOBODY.
I do think the rioting is out of control. They have every right to be outraged, but it gets to the point where the reason for their outrage gets lost in the chaos. They might be better off focusing their energy towards helping to effect changes in the system.
I am only going to comment on the 8:00 pm announcement time.
This decision was made so that people could safely commute home from work and school and be off the streets. You all saw this shitshow that took place within MINUTES of the verdict. Imagine this was announced at 3:00 when kids were on their way home from school. Or 5:30 when people were commuting. I don't know how many of you live here or around here but the outrage of the announcement time is seriously the least of the problems.
One of my husand's company's branches was burned to the ground. 80+ people were arrested. People lost their businesses and livelihoods right before Christmas. Nobody won. NOBODY.
I'm not justifying the rioting at all and I don't live there so I obviously can't say what's going on, but it seems like if they were going to wait, announcing it at 8am today would have been better because people would have been at school/work and not on the street. Mob mentality is a real thing. Of course some people would have rioted anyway but IMO it would have been easier to control.
No, the cop didn't know he didn't have a weapon. But why would the default assumption be that he *did* have a weapon? If it was a white teenager this incident never would have happened.
I can't answer that. But I would venture a good guess that the cop only shot him because he felt threatened--for whatever reason. I would say that most cops don't WANT to shoot anyone. All the cops I know (and I know SEVERAL) say having to shoot someone (or even draw their weapon) is a huge fear that keeps them up at night.
White teenagers get shot by cops all the time. White men, black men, etc. etc. Just in my immediate area I can think of four instances in the past 6 months where a cop has shot someone. These instances just don't make national news. I think that the racial tension between the police force and the citizens in Ferguson really exacerbated this situation.
LOL, sure they do. Were these teenagers stopped and then shot for jaywalking? For walking back to their homes minding their own business? Fucking please. White teenagers do not get shot all the time as do most suspected criminals. This is not a common occurrence and as someone who works in criminal defense for the indigent I can assure you police deal regularly with hostile people ( not saying in this case Brown was hositl) and charge many people with resisting arrest, aggravated assault, etc. But, don't fucking tell me that a cop who instigated a bullshit stop who was in a vehicle had no other recourse then to shoot this kid, how many times? The shit I have seen in my career I could write an entire book but please don't state that white teenagers get shot all the time- l.o.fucking.l.
Post by andrewsgal on Nov 25, 2014 15:30:04 GMT -5
It was essentially just declared open hunting season on AA men by white police officers in ferguson. People are angry and scared. People do terrible things out of fear and anger.
Can we talk about the fact that Wilson feels zero remorse and had already sold his story? It's gross.
There is absolutely no need to shoot someone that many times to stop them with the caliber of weapon he was shooting.
The bottom line is an unarmed AA teen was shot for being mouthy and walking down the street. That would never happen to my middle class white sons. And that is the biggest issue here!
I can't answer that. But I would venture a good guess that the cop only shot him because he felt threatened--for whatever reason. I would say that most cops don't WANT to shoot anyone. All the cops I know (and I know SEVERAL) say having to shoot someone (or even draw their weapon) is a huge fear that keeps them up at night.
White teenagers get shot by cops all the time. White men, black men, etc. etc. Just in my immediate area I can think of four instances in the past 6 months where a cop has shot someone. These instances just don't make national news. I think that the racial tension between the police force and the citizens in Ferguson really exacerbated this situation.
LOL, sure they do. Were these teenagers stopped and then shot for jaywalking? For walking back to their homes minding their own business? Fucking please. White teenagers do not get shot all the time as do most suspected criminals. This is not a common occurrence and as someone who works in criminal defense for the indigent I can assure you police deal regularly with hostile people ( not saying in this case Brown was hositl) and charge many people with resisting arrest, aggravated assault, etc. But, don't fucking tell me that a cop who instigated a bullshit stop who was in a vehicle had no other recourse then to shoot this kid, how many times? The shit I have seen in my career I could write an entire book but please don't state that white teenagers get shot all the time- l.o.fucking.l.
Post by broccolisgirl on Nov 25, 2014 16:06:28 GMT -5
DW said that MB was reaching into the car, starting the conflict. He said that he doesn't carry a taser, but he does carry pepper spray. But in the midst of this, ahem, assault, he had the mental acuity to grab his gun because he knew he could grab it. If this struggle was not so intense that he couldn't willingly/knowingly grab his gun, why couldn't he just drive away? Would it be so hard to move the car/roll up the window/call for backup?
I think that police force needs to be dissolved. I think Ferguson either needs to start from the ground up, or the county sheriff needs to take jurisdiction.
Post by Kcthepouchh8r on Nov 25, 2014 16:27:25 GMT -5
I posted and ran. I suck. I admit I haven't really followed this case since the initial week and I've only skimmed through the articles recently but didn't the autopsy prove he was fighting for Wilson's weapon in the cop car and that from the trajectory of the bullets it was a myth he was surrendering with his hands up? Based on that it wouldn't be surprising he was acquitted no?
He didn't have a weapon and Wilson has barely a scratch on his face. He was really in such danger that he had to shoot the man SIX times? No. That's excessive
I see where you're coming from. But, all of this was in hindsight. The cop didn't know that he didn't have a weapon. And as far as the six times thing, that is pretty common. You would be hard pressed to find a situation where a cop did NOT completely unload his weapon once he shot. A similar situation happened locally and everyone was up in arms because the cop shot the guy 8 times. It is really common.
Honestly -- I think a huge part of the issue is this guy was likely piss poor cop who wasn't exactly a brain surgeon. Not like he was a homicidal racist intent on killing -- but I do think he was likely not good at his job, wasn't trained well, and likely wasn't mature or professional enough to keep his personal fears or prejudices from impacting his actions when it came to a split second decision.