Random remarks

[heyjude]

Dec 5, 2014 9:50:35 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

I'm just going to say this because I can't contact each of you individually, but I don't want to see even ONE MORE word about the way pixy should or shouldn't be acting, thinking, thrashing, fighting, punching, inciting, or laughing inappropriately right now. Don't make me find you and explain why. Are we clear?

AGREED.

No one touches pixy!!!!!

[sparkythelawyer]

If this board loses Pixy so that the admins can continue to defend a troll and insult the rest of the board as groupthinking sheep, this board will have lost a lot it cannot get back. That's all I'm sayin'.

[heyjude]

I actually don't think this board is racially diverse at all. I think we are 85 percent white, 10 percent black, and 5 percent other (Hispanic, Asian, etc.).

But I thought the board would vote to ban lys at 75% so clearly I don't understand numbers.

No really we don't have enough people who are Hispanic or Asian participating.

[KateAggie]

Dec 5, 2014 9:50:22 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Dec 5, 2014 8:26:14 GMT -5 susquehanna said:

I confess to being a frequent lurker and an infrequent poster.

I read this board almost every morning and evening on my bus ride. I have been following the whole recent banning drama. However, I didn't vote in the poll.

I don't post much because I am afraid of getting flamed, and also because I am afraid of giving too much identifying information.

I used to lurk on The Nest and The Knot back in the old days. Based on the information that real posters gave about themselves and the pictures that they posted, I figured out the usernames of the following people: a co-worker, a former college classmate that I wasn't close to but who shared mutual friends with me, and my own sister.

I once found out that my sister was pregnant before she announced to the family because she posted her BFP on The Nest.

Creeped out now.

And we wonder why lurkers don't post.

I've found people I know on here based on sig pics and info.  It's not like you have to research or stalk for that to happen.  

[KateAggie]

Dec 5, 2014 10:00:21 GMT -5 sparkythelawyer said:

If this board loses Pixy so that the admins can continue to defend a troll and insult the rest of the board as groupthinking sheep, this board will have lost a lot it cannot get back. That's all I'm sayin'.

Not one person has asked Pixy to step down.  Not one.  Not a reg, not a lurker, not a global.

[heyjude]

Dec 5, 2014 10:00:43 GMT -5 KateAggie said:

Dec 5, 2014 9:50:22 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Creeped out now.

And we wonder why lurkers don't post.

 

:/

[Michelle]

Dec 5, 2014 9:50:35 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

I'm just going to say this because I can't contact each of you individually, but I don't want to see even ONE MORE word about the way pixy should or shouldn't be acting, thinking, thrashing, fighting, punching, inciting, or laughing inappropriately right now. Don't make me find you and explain why. Are we clear?

Who is saying pixy should go?

That would be a travesty. You can defend y4m and still adore pixy. And you can even dislike a particular behavior committed by pixy and still adore her.

Pixy if some shit is going down personally making you feel sensitive or vulnerable or whatever I am reading between sbp's lines never forget how much this board loves you.

If that isn't a bobble head groupthink unity horse it should be.

[gottadobe]

Dec 5, 2014 10:00:39 GMT -5 heyjude said:

No really we don't have enough people who are Hispanic or Asian participating.

Hispanic person checking in.
But, I will admit to being somewhat intimidated by the board because "current events/politics" was never on my radar growing up.  I couldn't even tell you if my parents voted, and they certainly never stressed the importance of it to us.

So, mostly I read and nod and think "Hey, that's interesting, I've never thought of that before."

[heyjude]

And also there are times when we engage groupthink. I don't think it's a slur necessarily and I also think it's a fairly normal occurrence when you have so many people chatting for years and years.

Also, this article randomly popped up in wapo yesterday about this topic:

www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/12/04/people-around-you-control-your-mind-the-latest-evidence/

[heyjude]

Dec 5, 2014 10:09:03 GMT -5 gottadobe said:

Dec 5, 2014 10:00:39 GMT -5 heyjude said:

No really we don't have enough people who are Hispanic or Asian participating.

Hispanic person checking in.
But, I will admit to being somewhat intimidated by the board because "current events/politics" was never on my radar growing up.  I couldn't even tell you if my parents voted, and they certainly never stressed the importance of it to us.

So, mostly I read and nod and think "Hey, that's interesting, I've never thought of that before."

Keep posting!

[sparkythelawyer]

Dec 5, 2014 10:02:24 GMT -5 KateAggie said:

Dec 5, 2014 10:00:21 GMT -5 sparkythelawyer said:

If this board loses Pixy so that the admins can continue to defend a troll and insult the rest of the board as groupthinking sheep, this board will have lost a lot it cannot get back. That's all I'm sayin'.

Not one person has asked Pixy to step down.  Not one.  Not a reg, not a lurker, not a global.

I didn't say anyone has.  But she's already stated she will likely step down as a moderator.

All I'm saying is that if the board loses Pixy so that the admins can continue to fight for Lys like some sort of noble quest, the board will have lost a substantial contributor and instead kept a troll. 

[tacosforlife]

I also don't really want to wade into the substance of any of this because fuck that. But I 100 percent disagree that nobody can say anything about pixy. If we can criticize the actions of the admins, we should be able to voice concern about the actions of a mod, should we have them. Everyone's actions are always open to criticism.

I think maybe this is a good reminder for all of us (me included) to be better about de-personalizing our criticisms.

[pixy0stix]

::waves arms::

I'm not going anywhere! I was feeling some kinda way yesterday. My normal bullheadishness has kicked in, and I'm staying.

[heyjude]

Dec 5, 2014 10:17:56 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Dec 5, 2014 10:06:20 GMT -5 Michelle said:

Who is saying pixy should go?

That would be a travesty. You can defend y4m and still adore pixy. And you can even dislike a particular behavior committed by pixy and still adore her.

Pixy if some shit is going down personally making you feel sensitive or vulnerable or whatever I am reading between sbp's lines never forget how much this board loves you.

If that isn't a bobble head groupthink unity horse it should be.

I am not suggesting that anyone has said that pixy should go. I am not suggesting that pixy thinks she should go. I am saying that there are things that SHOULD NOT HAVE TO BE SPELLED OUT and I will cut the next person to suggest that pixy should "exercise better judgment" at any point over the next not-exactly-sure-how-long.

No one touches pixy.

I will join your army on this one.

[Velar Fricative]

Dec 5, 2014 9:24:43 GMT -5 ChillyMcFreeze said:

You guys. Sharing similar opinions is not groupthink. Groupthink means we're all bobbleheads nodding along to one loud idea. Groupthink is not a compliment or neutral term. Many of us share liberal ideologies and, thus, come to similar conclusions on a variety of topics. But virtually every response in the really good political threads offers some nuance of "and here's how I came to that similar conclusion." We are a critically-thinking bunch of women. Please stop using groupthink like it's not offensive as hell.

[Velar Fricative]

Dec 5, 2014 9:30:30 GMT -5 Michelle said:

Dec 5, 2014 9:24:43 GMT -5 ChillyMcFreeze said:

You guys. Sharing similar opinions is not groupthink. Groupthink means we're all bobbleheads nodding along to one loud idea. Groupthink is not a compliment or neutral term. Many of us share liberal ideologies and, thus, come to similar conclusions on a variety of topics. But virtually every response in the really good political threads offers some nuance of "and here's how I came to that similar conclusion." We are a critically-thinking bunch of women. Please stop using groupthink like it's not offensive as hell.

I do think there are some bobble head subjects. Aka unity horses ::shrug::

So it's bad and groupthink-y if there are some unity horses? I fucking love unity horses on this board! Let me try and find some good ones we've had recently.

[Velar Fricative]

Dec 5, 2014 9:45:15 GMT -5 secretlyevil said:

Dec 5, 2014 9:42:35 GMT -5 tacosforlife said:

So we're doing another day of this?

apparently

TGIF!

[Velar Fricative]

It sounds so weird and racialist to ask "Where are all the Asians at?!?!"

[tacosforlife]

To clarify, people can say things about pixy's ACTIONS AS A MOD. If people can criticize y4m for making her "group-thinky" statement, then why can't they criticize pixy for sharing it (or doing any other mod action)? I DO NOT SUPPORT running around saying stuff like, "y4m is a terrible admin and kicks puppies for fun" or "pixy is the worst moderator evar!" No. That's why I mentioned de-personalizing criticism. But it should be OK to say, "I disagree with the action that [insert admin or mod name here] took because of XYZ reason." That's it. The board doesn't work if admins and mods can act with no debate or criticism about said actions.

[iammalcolmx]

tacosforlife I agree with you 100%. I don't see why we can't say things about what happened. Honestly I feel some type of way about Y4M's comment AND the fact that Pixy posted it.

[eclaires]

Dec 5, 2014 10:40:41 GMT -5 tacosforlife said:

To clarify, people can say things about pixy's ACTIONS AS A MOD. If people can criticize y4m for making her "group-thinky" statement, then why can't they criticize pixy for sharing it (or doing any other mod action)? I DO NOT SUPPORT running around saying stuff like, "y4m is a terrible admin and kicks puppies for fun" or "pixy is the worst moderator evar!" No. That's why I mentioned de-personalizing criticism. But it should be OK to say, "I disagree with the action that [insert admin or mod name here] took because of XYZ reason." That's it. The board doesn't work if admins and mods can act with no debate or criticism about said actions.

Thank you... I hope I was able to strike that note with my post on the subject because that was my intent.  I just wanted to give voice to something that bothered me, but it was absolutely not personal.  It could have been anyone, and my reaction would have been the same because my reaction was solely about mod board posts being shared.

[AJL]

Dec 5, 2014 10:00:39 GMT -5 heyjude said:

No really we don't have enough people who are Hispanic or Asian participating.

Hispanic poster, checking in.

[NewOrleans]

Dec 5, 2014 1:38:43 GMT -5 y4m said:

I'm a little surprised at the pearl clutching over "group-thinky" - I've been completely transparent that I think the quality of political discussion on CEP has suffered due to one-sided-ness. I believe I've used the term circle-jerk at least once and possibly a few more times than that, so I don't know why anyone would find this surprising. We've beaten that dead horse to death and I think for the most part moved on. I take value where I find it, which is mainly in the people, and I leave the rest. Like I do on every other board I participate in here. I don't think any of that impacts the way I moderate here, and I'm glad EllieArroway seems to agree. The minute she doesn't think I'm fit for the role, she can relieve me and I'd go quite quietly. I never asked for this, and it's really not a big part of my identity here.

I'm sorry pixy feels the way she does about me and I am resigned to the fact that there's probably nothing I can do about it. Although I stand by what I wrote on the mod board, I think copying it here was completely inappropriate and designed to be incendiary. In my opinion it showed very bad judgement for a moderator.

1. This post is an example of why people are taking issue with your remarks.  Your diction is derisive: "pearl clutching," "circle jerk," and "groupthink."  We are not "surprised" by yesterday's word choice because you are openly contemptuous; it comes as no shock.  Instead, we are offended by yesterday's remarks and the way you characterize us and our contributions to the board.  Instead of apologizing for having offended some of us, you have come in to affirm why you have done so. 

If you read posts here, then you should see that its commentary (which is indeed often snarky because we're having fun and of course CAN stray into "sheepy: F THE POLICE" territory)-- when it is serious-- is often articulate, reasoned, supported, and demonstrative of critical thinking about issues.  

The members here happen to agree.  That is not groupthink, nor is it a circle-jerk.  In fact, some of us don't agree.  And we challenge each other to a better understanding.  The original threads on Tamir Rice from last week are quite a good and recent example.  A less recent example is your interaction with ESF and me during the Burwell ruling.  

2. If you feel the board's political discussions lag, you mostly have 2 options: a) ignore the board or b) participate in it by giving us food for thought.  You are choosing a 3rd option, which is to disparage it.  I would far prefer that you participated in it.  

3. I have no problems with the moderation and administration of this board.  I have vocalized my support for you guys in your role.  I feel a passing disappointment about ruling in lys's favor, but I am not questioning the choice.  I do question your individual motivation because, in truth, I interpret your "groupthink" comment as meaning that lys should stay just because we need to hear dissent. However, I trust Ellie, and I will ultimately trust your judgment on board regulation as well.  
Please stop using withering diction to characterize our board's discussions.  Thank you.  And thank you for your work in dealing with our board's bullshit. 

[pescalita]

Dec 5, 2014 10:44:33 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Dec 5, 2014 10:40:41 GMT -5 tacosforlife said:

To clarify, people can say things about pixy's ACTIONS AS A MOD. If people can criticize y4m for making her "group-thinky" statement, then why can't they criticize pixy for sharing it (or doing any other mod action)? I DO NOT SUPPORT running around saying stuff like, "Y4M is a terrible admin and kicks puppies for fun" or "pixy is the worst moderator evar!" No. That's why I mentioned de-personalizing criticism. But it should be OK to say, "I disagree with the action that [insert admin or mod name here] took because of XYZ reason." That's it. The board doesn't work if admins and mods can act with no debate or criticism about said actions.

I wholly and completely disagree with this and I'm kind of disgusted to see who "likes" it. Context is important. So is some fucking humanity.

Everyone knows the context. I'm not going to talk about her in the third person, because I don't want to take away her agency, which is what this "do no wrong" stance does IMO. We can all understand *why* someone does something wrong and still believe its wrong.

[Deleted]

Dec 5, 2014 10:44:33 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Dec 5, 2014 10:40:41 GMT -5 tacosforlife said:

To clarify, people can say things about pixy's ACTIONS AS A MOD. If people can criticize y4m for making her "group-thinky" statement, then why can't they criticize pixy for sharing it (or doing any other mod action)? I DO NOT SUPPORT running around saying stuff like, "Y4M is a terrible admin and kicks puppies for fun" or "pixy is the worst moderator evar!" No. That's why I mentioned de-personalizing criticism. But it should be OK to say, "I disagree with the action that [insert admin or mod name here] took because of XYZ reason." That's it. The board doesn't work if admins and mods can act with no debate or criticism about said actions.

I wholly and completely disagree with this and I'm kind of disgusted to see who "likes" it. Context is important. So is some fucking humanity.

Well, I know I'm opening myself up to stuff here, but oh well.

Pixy is well-loved on this board. I didn't read anything yesterday, or try to post anything yesterday, that would suggest anything remotely otherwise. All of the regulars, and probably most lurkers, are fully cognizant of her life and love her through it and want to support that. 

She is also a mod - still is a mod, and hope she stays as a mod. That is a role she, as an adult, accepted and administers with full knowledge of the responsibilities it entails. 

I think it is absolutely possible to recognize both her as a real-life person who has experienced one hell of a year of real life and love her through that, while also recognizing her role as a board mod and addressing that with her adult to adult. 

I realize not all agree with that, and that's fine. But it's how I feel I can engage with her as a real person on this board who is also a mod of this board.

[heyjude]

Dec 5, 2014 10:39:54 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

It sounds so weird and racialist to ask "Where are all the Asians at?!?!"

Context!

I was responding to the "we're so diverse" line. We aren't.

[summer]

If people want the board to lean less left, then people who lean less left should post more. Not in a trollish way, but in a real way. I have asked several times for people to post more conservative articles and literature but all I remember seeing is moderate-ish stuff from the Economist or WSJ that IIOY or ESF has posted. Nothing more. And half the time we're not even talking about political stuff anyways.

I really really can't stand that groupthink comment. Y4M has said it before so it's no surprise but it's extremely condescending every single time.

[NewOrleans]

Dec 5, 2014 10:44:33 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Dec 5, 2014 10:40:41 GMT -5 tacosforlife said:

To clarify, people can say things about pixy's ACTIONS AS A MOD. If people can criticize y4m for making her "group-thinky" statement, then why can't they criticize pixy for sharing it (or doing any other mod action)? I DO NOT SUPPORT running around saying stuff like, "Y4M is a terrible admin and kicks puppies for fun" or "pixy is the worst moderator evar!" No. That's why I mentioned de-personalizing criticism. But it should be OK to say, "I disagree with the action that [insert admin or mod name here] took because of XYZ reason." That's it. The board doesn't work if admins and mods can act with no debate or criticism about said actions.

I wholly and completely disagree with this and I'm kind of disgusted to see who "likes" it. Context is important. So is some fucking humanity.

(huh)

I think tacos is being pretty neutral here.  

I think it was shit-stirry of pixy to post the message.  (disclaimer: since she didn't post anything that was secret because y4m makes no secret of her view of us, I don't judge pixy too much and just urge her to use discretion, knowing full well that Pixy can and should do as she sees fit and doesn't need my input on it, lol).

omg.  We're disagreeing.  #notgroupthink

[Velar Fricative]

Dec 5, 2014 10:52:19 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Dec 5, 2014 10:39:54 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

It sounds so weird and racialist to ask "Where are all the Asians at?!?!"

Context!

I was responding to the "we're so diverse" line. We aren't.

No I know, I didn't find fault with anything you said, it's just that your post made me curious about our representation and I didn't want to just come out and say, "Hey Asians, stop hiding!" lol

[tacosforlife]

Dec 5, 2014 10:55:39 GMT -5 summer said:

And half the time we're not even talking about political stuff anyways.

I actually kind of want to highlight this because regardless of whether you agree with the groupthink comment, there is actually tons of stuff discussed here that doesn't fall into neat liberal-vs.-conservative boxes that provides lots of room for interesting discussion among people who might disagree on presidential candidates. After all, the board is CURRENT EVENTS and politics.

Current events discussion I see on the first page that isn't partisan: declining rates of church building, declining divorce rates, elite public schools, porn in Britain, Sony and North Korea (haven't even read that one), and a less effective flu vaccine. Plus, a lot of the race-related stuff doesn't necessarily break down perfectly into liberal vs. conservative. I see dyermaker post a lot about race stuff, I know she's also very pro-life.

I guess it depends what you're interested in talking about. If it's just national politics, then yeah, we obviously lean left. But there is a lot of interesting current events information discussed here!

Blah. I've said enough. I should get back to work.