What is the deal with the outright quickness to negate something as racist when [reasonable] people of color confirm that it is?
If someone of a different race or culture said XYZ is insensitive/racist, I'd listen, absorb, and not participate in that behavior and call it out when I see it.
What is with this fight to the damn death about proving something that you have little to no -- most times no -- experience with?
My theory is that if you believe that we're "post-racial", then you think that any wrongs are so far removed and irrelevant that XYZ is as inoffensive as St. Patricks day, and to think otherwise is looking for offense. People who think that all their successes are bootstrap related are pretty beholden to the idea that they're not benefiting from an unjust system so they pretty much have to think that racism is gone.
I've been craving sushi for a while and I think we're going to have to have that for dinner. Totally going to use chopsticks too (using a fork to eat seaweed salad is just weird to me).
I've been craving sushi for a while and I think we're going to have to have that for dinner. Totally going to use chopsticks too (using a fork to eat seaweed salad is just weird to me).
What is the deal with the outright quickness to negate something as racist when [reasonable] people of color confirm that it is?
If someone of a different race or culture said XYZ is insensitive/racist, I'd listen, absorb, and not participate in that behavior and call it out when I see it.
What is with this fight to the damn death about proving something that you have little to no -- most times no -- experience with?
So much this!! At the very least, just take in what the person is saying. I don't understand trying to invalidate a person's feelings.
It used to be mine too but then it was like FOH with your baby talk. So we made a new board. Which is hilarious because some of the vocal anti-baby talk people left for ML and/or have kids and ask baby questions on ML/MMM.
Race talk is jarring on boards that aren't CEP because people aren't there to learn. I was once told on MMM that it was "icky" that I was "trying to make it racist " to talk about bad baby names.
*sigh* That's unfortunate.
There were many of us who didn't really care about the baby talk, but I think, more importantly, we were at a stage when we were high on sub-boards. Honestly, by the time we came over to GBCN, most of the "you better put an @ before your baby talk" shit had pretty much died down. But there were 3 sub-boards made for MM all pretty much around the same time, so I think that's what happened there. Anyway, I also don't think MM expected MMM to have money and off-topic chat, too. I have never been quiet on my thoughts about the subject--I hate that you guys left and also, I hate that there seems to be this tone of go to hell MM from MMM, because we were once all one board and as far as I knew, all got along well *shrug*.
If I recall, the @ insistence really only came because there was a period of time in which there were dozens and dozens of random baby posts, all with headings like, "I need help deciding something" or "What do you think of this?" At the same time, there were a lot of people struggling with infertility and loss. The board was also really busy, and there were a couple pages of posts a day. I thought it was a completely fair request, and I've always been kind of surprised that people took offense to it.
CEP has always been really disciplined about useful subject lines, keeping related things in one thread, and not spamming the board with random shit. I know CEP bounced around ideas about creating sub boards at various times, but we've always turned it down.
For people so good with money and a reputation as being rule-followers, it is surprising to me that MM could never seem to get agreement on how to manage its own board. But given that, it's just not surprising to me that there was a split and sub boards created.
I find the MMMoms disdain for MM to be petty, but I can see why the boards split.
What is the deal with the outright quickness to negate something as racist when [reasonable] people of color confirm that it is?
If someone of a different race or culture said XYZ is insensitive/racist, I'd listen, absorb, and not participate in that behavior and call it out when I see it.
What is with this fight to the damn death about proving something that you have little to no -- most times no -- experience with?
Disclaimer to say this obviously doesn't apply in all cases, BUT (lol, I'm already in dangerous territory, aren't I?) I'd like to think in some cases it's a sign of progress. There was a day and age when being called a racist wasn't an insult, it was a compliment. When people see something that they haven't thought about as a being racist before, pointed out as racist, and they realize they've done it -- well that stings. It causes shame. People get defensive when they feel ashamed. They get there hackles up and become vocal about it or need more clarification (LOTS more clarification). And it sucks in the moment, but hopefully, at some point, some day they cool off and reflect more deeply on the conversation.
ETA: I don't mean to sound like, "So suck it up and fight the good fight!" I know it's tedious and tiring and you shouldn't have to come back day after day saying the same things. I'm sorry we live in a world like that.
If I recall, the @ insistence really only came because there was a period of time in which there were dozens and dozens of random baby posts, all with headings like, "I need help deciding something" or "What do you think of this?" At the same time, there were a lot of people struggling with infertility and loss. The board was also really busy, and there were a couple pages of posts a day. I thought it was a completely fair request, and I've always been kind of surprised that people took offense to it.
CEP has always been really disciplined about useful subject lines, keeping related things in one thread, and not spamming the board with random shit. I know CEP bounced around ideas about creating sub boards at various times, but we've always turned it down.
For people so good with money and a reputation as being rule-followers, it is surprising to me that MM could never seem to get agreement on how to manage its own board. But given that, it's just not surprising to me that there was a split and sub boards created.
I find the MMMoms disdain for MM to be petty, but I can see why the boards split.
It's not disdain it comes from feeling unwanted and I don't even think its a strong sentiment on MMM I'd hate for people to be called petty over something I've said. I'll own that I am one of the most vocal people about it on MMM. So call me petty if you like but don't paint everyone with the same brush.
As someone that wanted the @ symbols, I will say that it wasn't that we didn't want you guys, it was really that there were a few offenders who didn't understand how to title a post to communicate they were seeking assistance choosing between cribs not credit cards. And would spam the board with the same kinds of questions multiple times a day. I don't even remember who the chronic offenders were, but I can remember just a never ending stream of vaguely titled, ridiculous one off questions. It was basically an attempt to get a few annoying people to be less annoying, not to drive everyone off the board simply because they got pregnant.
I've been craving sushi for a while and I think we're going to have to have that for dinner. Totally going to use chopsticks too (using a fork to eat seaweed salad is just weird to me).
#racistchopsticks
Then wouldn't just eating sushi be racist too?
Deep thoughts.
Then logic would dictate that if you don't want to be a racist, none of you non-Hispanics should be eating tacos, tamales, burritos, ceviche, pan dulces, escabeche, pozole, empanadas, tortas, pasteles, tostadas... enchiladas... tortillas... guacamole...
Then logic would dictate that if you don't want to be a racist, none of you non-Hispanics should be eating tacos, tamales, burritos, ceviche, pan dulces, escabeche, pozole, empanadas, tortas, pasteles, tostadas... enchiladas... tortillas... guacamole...
I love how in the game of "how racist is this?" M equates eating the tacos that the man is advertising with the man's costume.
Then logic would dictate that if you don't want to be a racist, none of you non-Hispanics should be eating tacos, tamales, burritos, ceviche, pan dulces, escabeche, pozole, empanadas, tortas, pasteles, tostadas... enchiladas... tortillas... guacamole...
Then logic would dictate that if you don't want to be a racist, none of you non-Hispanics should be eating tacos, tamales, burritos, ceviche, pan dulces, escabeche, pozole, empanadas, tortas, pasteles, tostadas... enchiladas... tortillas... guacamole...
If eating food from other cultures is wrong, I don't want to be right.
Then logic would dictate that if you don't want to be a racist, none of you non-Hispanics should be eating tacos, tamales, burritos, ceviche, pan dulces, escabeche, pozole, empanadas, tortas, pasteles, tostadas... enchiladas... tortillas... guacamole...
Screw that, then.
#traitortothecause #mmmtacosahhhh
Do white hoods have mouth holes? Because I'm going to need to figure out how I'm to eat one of those bahn mi sammiches you got last week.
But WHY are you bitter? This is what confuses the hell out of me about some of y'all. No one was like, "Motherhood? Dumbest shit ever! Take your fetuses and babies and get the hell on!" It just was never as deep as I feel like it's often made out to be.
Because no one likes to feel unwanted.
And I'm generally all IDGAF what anyone thinks but it felt to me like it was unwanted so we went to MMM and it evolved as things do that non baby talk happened too.
But again I don't presume to speak for all of MMM.
I feel like we are on different planets, because that is not how I remember it AT ALL. People - with babies - suggested the subboard. Some people were like ok fine, it makes sense because we are adding other sub-boards.
It makes me so sad that people "felt they were unwanted" because that was not the intention, and I feel terrible if it was perceived that way. What is even sadder is that so many of my favorite posters then left MM for MMM (looking at you pugz), then some others went to ML (jenny1980 you bitch! etc etc. and now we see the slow death of MM which used to be the second most posted board after ML.
Don't make me beg anka to come back. And we lost tres3 to over here but she has been busy pot stirring her local shizz.
And it just doesn't make any fucking sense. And now I have to post on CEP and they don't even want. SORRY CEP, you can thank MM for imploding for bringing me to you!!
Disclaimer to say this obviously doesn't apply in all cases, BUT (lol, I'm already in dangerous territory, aren't I?) I'd like to think in some cases it's a sign of progress. There was a day and age when being called a racist wasn't an insult, it was a compliment. When people see something that they haven't thought about as a being racist before, pointed out as racist, and they realize they've done it -- well that stings. It causes shame. People get defensive when they feel ashamed. They get there hackles up and become vocal about it or need more clarification (LOTS more clarification). And it sucks in the moment, but hopefully, at some point, some day they cool off and reflect more deeply on the conversation.
I see it as denial. Which to me, is more dangerous than being okay with being a racist. Something can't be fixed if it isn't believed to be real. You're (collective you) arguing and digging heels into topics that largely don't affect white people.
Fighting people who discredit the racism in cotton store displays, racist costumes, stereotypes, etc. etc. is just an added battle. We continue fighting with people who are still proud to be racist. They still exist. We just have a larger group thinking that they don't and that minorities are just playing race cards.
It's insanity.
ETA: corrected for readability
Oh yeah, it's denial for sure. Hopefully in some cases they (hopefully) feel ashamed. And when you start to feel ashamed about one thing, you start to open your eyes to all the other things you should also feel ashamed about. From your quote I think you missed my eta which was to say I agree you shouldn't have to make these points over and over again -- especially to the same people. It's death by a thousand cuts. I wish I had a solution where one day everyone would wake up and "get" it.