Ethical question

[Kcthepouchh8r]

So as you all probably know dd has a dx of autism/epilepsy. In my state the only way to access private therapy is via Medicaid so we have it for her. Any child with Medicaid automatically qualifies for wic. Dh thinks I should jump on it and get free food. I feel icky accepting because we don't need it-we are above the median income for our state and have no problems affording groceries. What say you, dwp?

[cabbagecabbage]

I would not take the WIC personally unless she has unusual dietary needs.

It's a similar situation to foster parents I know (I'm in some groups since we plan to foster down the line). The children get WIC but most middle class families don't take it. The ones who do have babies on specialized formulas, etc.

[dizzycooks]

I probably wouldn't unless it would allow you to save more for her future needs or education once she ages out of the system. Or perhaps if you'd be able to use the freed up money to enrich her life in some way that helps her (read: not a trip to Disney )

[Kcthepouchh8r]

Mar 30, 2015 10:02:45 GMT -5 cabbagecabbage said:

I would not take the WIC personally unless she has unusual dietary needs.

It's a similar situation to foster parents I know (I'm in some groups since we plan to foster down the line). The children get WIC but most middle class families don't take it. The ones who do have babies on specialized formulas, etc.

Technically (as the interest of full disclosure for opinions) she is on a special diet-she doesn't have gluten or dairy. It is pricier but not drastically. Her milk runs us an extra $3 a week. Her cereal is $5/box but lasts us about 10 days. Otherwise she eats fruits and veggies like anyone else.

[melew]

Mar 30, 2015 10:38:32 GMT -5 runningfish said:

No. I wouldn't participate in programs for people who need assistance with food if I didn't actually need assistance with food.

This.  I would feel very icky about knowingly utilizing services my family didn't need, although technically qualified for.  

[lexus]

Mar 30, 2015 11:10:02 GMT -5 melew said:

Mar 30, 2015 10:38:32 GMT -5 runningfish said:

No. I wouldn't participate in programs for people who need assistance with food if I didn't actually need assistance with food.

This.  I would feel very icky about knowingly utilizing services my family didn't need, although technically qualified for.  

I agree.

[gwapes]

Mar 30, 2015 10:28:53 GMT -5 Kcthepouchh8r said:

Mar 30, 2015 10:02:45 GMT -5 cabbagecabbage said:

I would not take the WIC personally unless she has unusual dietary needs.

It's a similar situation to foster parents I know (I'm in some groups since we plan to foster down the line). The children get WIC but most middle class families don't take it. The ones who do have babies on specialized formulas, etc.

Technically (as the interest of full disclosure for opinions) she is on a special diet-she doesn't have gluten or dairy. It is pricier but not drastically. Her milk runs us an extra $3 a week. Her cereal is $5/box but lasts us about 10 days. Otherwise she eats fruits and veggies like anyone else.

Before deciding, you may want to look into what your state's WIC program covers. Some do not cover much outside of Cow's milk. And cereal is the same. 

But if you don't need the financial assistance with her food, then no, I wouldn't take it.

[mamaalysson]

Mar 30, 2015 10:19:02 GMT -5 dizzycooks said:

I probably wouldn't unless it would allow you to save more for her future needs or education once she ages out of the system. Or perhaps if you'd be able to use the freed up money to enrich her life in some way that helps her (read: not a trip to Disney )

I think this is a valid point.  You may not need the funds now, but if it will allow you to save for her future needs, I think you would be ethically okay using it.  I understand the icky feeling, though, and you may be perfectly set for the future, but I don't think you would be out of line to use it IF the money saved can be put towards your daughter's future as it pertains to her diagnosis.

[melew]

Mar 30, 2015 10:19:02 GMT -5 dizzycooks said:

I probably wouldn't unless it would allow you to save more for her future needs or education once she ages out of the system. Or perhaps if you'd be able to use the freed up money to enrich her life in some way that helps her (read: not a trip to Disney )

While I do understand and respect this argument, I am not sure that families "hedging their bets" so to speak for the future is the spirit of the program.  It is provide a nutritional supplement for families who need to put food on the table right now.  

[lattelady5]

Mar 30, 2015 12:02:28 GMT -5 melew said:

While I do understand and respect this argument, I am not sure that families "hedging their bets" so to speak for the future is the spirit of the program.  It is provide a nutritional supplement for families who need to put food on the table right now.  

I agree with this. Unless you actually need it, there's no reason to take it.

[lala]

Yea, if you don't need it, you don't need it. If using it would free up money in your budget to help with other therapies, etc. then sure.

[Kcthepouchh8r]

Thanks guys. I will show dh tonight I'm right he's wrong. Lol

[andrewsgal]

Mar 30, 2015 12:02:28 GMT -5 melew said:

Mar 30, 2015 10:19:02 GMT -5 dizzycooks said:

I probably wouldn't unless it would allow you to save more for her future needs or education once she ages out of the system. Or perhaps if you'd be able to use the freed up money to enrich her life in some way that helps her (read: not a trip to Disney )

While I do understand and respect this argument, I am not sure that families "hedging their bets" so to speak for the future is the spirit of the program.  It is provide a nutritional supplement for families who need to put food on the table right now.  

Yes thank you! Don't need it done get it.

[Deleted]

I probably would receive WIC under those circumstances. The median family income in my state (NY) is $55k whereas the cutoff for WIC eligibility is $44k. Assuming you make more, but not much more, than the average median income I would imagine your annual costs more than make up the difference between these two numbers. And if they don't, they will in the future. WIC was designed so that at risk women and children would have access to the best nutrition. It's not "food stamps." It ends at 5 years old. Assuring that at risk children have proper nutrition is an important public health goal. It's really not a lot of money - just some cheese, milk and bread. I would take that if it helped my child.

[minerswife17]

I personally would not use it.

[andrewsgal]

Mar 30, 2015 15:35:43 GMT -5 @notquiteblushing said:

I probably would receive WIC under those circumstances. The median family income in my state (NY) is $55k whereas the cutoff for WIC eligibility is $44k. Assuming you make more, but not much more, than the average median income I would imagine your annual costs more than make up the difference between these two numbers. And if they don't, they will in the future. WIC was designed so that at risk women and children would have access to the best nutrition. It's not "food stamps." It ends at 5 years old. Assuring that at risk children have proper nutrition is an important public health goal. It's really not a lot of money - just some cheese, milk and bread. I would take that if it helped my child.

But she doesn't need it. Why would you take something you don't need? 

[Deleted]

Mar 30, 2015 16:24:35 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Mar 30, 2015 15:35:43 GMT -5 @notquiteblushing said:

I probably would receive WIC under those circumstances. The median family income in my state (NY) is $55k whereas the cutoff for WIC eligibility is $44k. Assuming you make more, but not much more, than the average median income I would imagine your annual costs more than make up the difference between these two numbers. And if they don't, they will in the future. WIC was designed so that at risk women and children would have access to the best nutrition. It's not "food stamps." It ends at 5 years old. Assuring that at risk children have proper nutrition is an important public health goal. It's really not a lot of money - just some cheese, milk and bread. I would take that if it helped my child.

But she doesn't need it. Why would you take something you don't need? 

Do you need your roads cleared of snow or could you just ride the bus?

[andrewsgal]

Mar 30, 2015 17:06:51 GMT -5 @notquiteblushing said:

Mar 30, 2015 16:24:35 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

But she doesn't need it. Why would you take something you don't need? 

Do you need your roads cleared of snow or could you just ride the bus?

Nope I can honestly say we never need our roads cleared. And something that serves everyone is totes the same as one for a very select group of people. Totally ridiculous comparison but at least you tried.

[Deleted]

Mar 30, 2015 17:13:15 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Mar 30, 2015 17:06:51 GMT -5 @notquiteblushing said:

Do you need your roads cleared of snow or could you just ride the bus?

Nope I can honestly say we never need our roads cleared. And something that serves everyone is totes the same as one for a very select group of people. Totally ridiculous comparison but at least you tried.

It is for everyone. Ensuring medically needy children have proper nutrition benefits all. That's why her son qualifies. Every year they estimate how many children are eligible and budget accordingly.

Do you think since I save for retirement I should "thanks but I don't need Social Security?"

[andrewsgal]

Mar 30, 2015 17:18:56 GMT -5 @notquiteblushing said:

Mar 30, 2015 17:13:15 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Nope I can honestly say we never need our roads cleared. And something that serves everyone is totes the same as one for a very select group of people. Totally ridiculous comparison but at least you tried.

It is for everyone. Ensuring medically needy children have proper nutrition benefits all. That's why her son qualifies. Every year they estimate how many children are eligible and budget accordingly.

Do you think since I save for retirement I should "thanks but I don't need Social Security?"

Once again an invalid point there won't even be SS around when we retire. And SS is offered to everyone not a select group. You sound like you have no idea what you are saying.

BTW her child is a girl not a boy and not medically fragile.

There is a difference between a child who is medically fragile and one with autism even with epilepsy.

I stand by the fact that it's sketchy to take advantages of social programs you don't need.

[Deleted]

Mar 30, 2015 17:23:36 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Mar 30, 2015 17:18:56 GMT -5 @notquiteblushing said:

It is for everyone. Ensuring medically needy children have proper nutrition benefits all. That's why her son qualifies. Every year they estimate how many children are eligible and budget accordingly.

Do you think since I save for retirement I should "thanks but I don't need Social Security?"

Once again an invalid point there won't even be SS around when we retire. And SS is offered to everyone not a select group. You sound like you have no idea what you are saying.

BTW her child is a girl not a boy and not medically fragile.

There is a difference between a child who is medically fragile and one with autism even with epilepsy.

I stand by the fact that it's sketchy to take advantages of social programs you don't need.

I don't know why you're getting snarky. I actually know a fair amount about public policy but suit yourself if you don't trust me. Deciding whether to accept benefits shouldn't be an ethical decision in my opinion. The eligibility guidelines are designed regardless of moral judgement.

[usm]

Mar 30, 2015 17:18:56 GMT -5 @notquiteblushing said:

Mar 30, 2015 17:13:15 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Nope I can honestly say we never need our roads cleared. And something that serves everyone is totes the same as one for a very select group of people. Totally ridiculous comparison but at least you tried.

It is for everyone. Ensuring medically needy children have proper nutrition benefits all. That's why her son qualifies. Every year they estimate how many children are eligible and budget accordingly.

Do you think since I save for retirement I should "thanks but I don't need Social Security?"

Isn't SS also based on if you work and "paid in"? She has no problem feeding her kid nutritious food, probably better than I do (pouch hater and all).

I live in the south and its snows 1x in 10 years but don't busses need cleared roads too?

I could save the state tons of money. They forced me to take SSI disability for DS2 to get the Medicaid he automatically qualified for at birth. The state sent me over $1000 cash, I spent weeks trying to not get it/give it back and they would not help me. I appreciate the "ease" of linking services but this is probably why we are in debt.

[andrewsgal]

Mar 30, 2015 17:29:52 GMT -5 @notquiteblushing said:

Mar 30, 2015 17:23:36 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Once again an invalid point there won't even be SS around when we retire. And SS is offered to everyone not a select group. You sound like you have no idea what you are saying.

BTW her child is a girl not a boy and not medically fragile.

There is a difference between a child who is medically fragile and one with autism even with epilepsy.

I stand by the fact that it's sketchy to take advantages of social programs you don't need.

I don't know why you're getting snarky. I actually know a fair amount about public policy but suit yourself if you don't trust me. Deciding whether to accept benefits shouldn't be an ethical decision in my opinion. The eligibility guidelines are designed regardless of moral judgement.

you say it shouldn't be but obviously it is. She fully admits they don't need to money. I am glad you know a lot about public policy that's great. I still think it's wrong to knowingly take something you don't need that is paid for by others.

[amynumbers]

What kind of fucking monster truck buses do you have that don't need plowed roads?

[letranger]

No skittles for rich people either.

[andrewsgal]

Mar 30, 2015 18:08:11 GMT -5 amynumbers said:

What kind of fucking monster truck buses do you have that don't need plowed roads?

Shut up she knows a lot about public policy but not buses evidently

[Deleted]

Mar 30, 2015 18:12:12 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Mar 30, 2015 18:08:11 GMT -5 amynumbers said:

What kind of fucking monster truck buses do you have that don't need plowed roads?

Shut up she knows a lot about public policy but not buses evidently

Umm busses run only on certain roads. Under your logic we shouldn't plow them all, especially if people have their own shovels.

[andrewsgal]

Mar 30, 2015 18:20:26 GMT -5 @notquiteblushing said:

Mar 30, 2015 18:12:12 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Shut up she knows a lot about public policy but not buses evidently

Umm busses run only on certain roads. Under your logic we shouldn't plow them all, especially if people have their own shovels.

That makes no sense at all you should have stopped while you were ahead. Whenever that was.

[Kcthepouchh8r]

Mar 30, 2015 17:18:56 GMT -5 @notquiteblushing said:

Mar 30, 2015 17:13:15 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Nope I can honestly say we never need our roads cleared. And something that serves everyone is totes the same as one for a very select group of people. Totally ridiculous comparison but at least you tried.

It is for everyone. Ensuring medically needy children have proper nutrition benefits all. That's why her son qualifies. Every year they estimate how many children are eligible and budget accordingly.

Do you think since I save for retirement I should "thanks but I don't need Social Security?"

I really think you bring up some good points that it should be budgeted for families of medically needy kids. Even if they make more than the $44k threshold for WIC some families are spending big bucks on therapies and medical equipment insurance doesn't cover/lost time from work/etc.

Honestly dds care is cheaper than her typically developing healthy sibling. Medicaid pays all her copays, medications, therapies. There is expanse of driving to appointments and therapies...but we can claim them on our taxes. Comparatively I've spent over $100 on doctors copays/OTC medication in 10 days for ds.

I get that morality shouldn't be involved, the money is budgeted regardless if I take it...but it still feels icky to take something we technically don't need currently.

[amynumbers]

Mar 30, 2015 18:20:26 GMT -5 @notquiteblushing said:

Mar 30, 2015 18:12:12 GMT -5 andrewsgal said:

Shut up she knows a lot about public policy but not buses evidently

Umm busses run only on certain roads. Under your logic we shouldn't plow them all, especially if people have their own shovels.

Or live in a major urban area. Because trust you don't see a snow plow if you don't live on a bus route in Philadelphia.