$58,000 Finnish speeding ticket based on millionaire’s incom

[zoegirltx]

www.chron.com/world/article/58-000-Finnish-speeding-ticket-based-on-6224056.php


HELSINKI — Getting a speeding ticket is not a feel-good moment for anyone. But consider Reima Kuisla, a Finnish businessman.



He was recently fined 54,024 euros ($58,000) for traveling a modest, if illegal, 64 mph in a 50 mph zone. And no, the 54,024 euros did not turn out to be a typo, or a mistake of any kind.



Kuisla is a millionaire, and in Finland the fines for more serious speeding infractions are calculated according to income. The thinking is that if it stings for the little guy, it should sting for the big guy, too.



The ticket had its desired effect. Kuisla, 61, took to Facebook last month with 12 furious posts in which he included a picture of his speeding ticket and a picture of what 54,024 euros could buy if it was not going to the state coffers — a new Mercedes. He said he was seriously considering leaving Finland altogether.



The Nordic countries have long had a strong egalitarian streak, embracing progressive taxation and high levels of social spending. Perhaps less well known is that they also practice progressive punishment, when it comes to certain fines. A rich person, many citizens here believe, should pay more for the same offense if justice is to be served. The question is: How much more?



The size of Kuisla’s ticket drew considerable attention, as television shows and newspapers debated the merits of Finland’s system, which uses a complex formula based on income to calculate an individual’s fines. Some wondered whether the government should stop imposing such fines for infractions at relatively low speeds. Some suggested that a fine so big was really a form of taxation.



But the idea that the rich should pay heavier fines did not seem to be much in question.



“It is an old system,” said Pasi Kemppainen, chief superintendent at the National Police Board. “It may lead to high fines, but only for people who can afford it.”



Kuisla’s $58,000 ticket is not even the most severe speeding ticket issued in recent years. According to another daily newspaper, Ilkka, Kuisla himself got an even bigger fine in 2013 when he was going 76 mph in a 50 mph zone. That ticket was for 63,448 euros, about $83,769 at the time.



Bigger yet was the ticket issued to a Nokia executive in 2002, when he was caught blowing through Helsinki on his Harley motorcycle and was hit with a $103,600 fine, based on a $12.5 million yearly income. Both tickets were appealed and in the end reduced.

[ttt]

For going 64 in a 50? Damn.

I feel like Europeans in general are pretty strict about these things though.

[zoegirltx]

Part of me really likes this. I know our tax system is progressive.

I feel like if a poor person & are both caught speeding, the punishment should impact us both equally.

A minimum wage worker shouldn't be required to work a whole week to pay for a traffic ticket & it would only take me a few hours to pay off....

[Velar Fricative]

I ain't mad at Finland for this.

[zoegirltx]

Part of this goes along with me feeling like the legal system doesn't apply to the rich...or they can always get off (with larger crimes) b/c they can just hire better attorneys.

[rugbywife]

Who whole point of fines is that they are supposed to be deterrents. If you are that rich, a $240 ticket probably isn't that big of a deal. 58k might make you watch the speedometer. Although clearly not in his case.

[josieposy]

Not his first ticket. Sucks to be him.

[tacosforlife]

As a pedestrian who routinely sees luxury cars run stop signs and red lights, I am cool with this. I am tired of seeing Mercedes and Lexus SUVs (usually with Maryland plates) roll through my neighborhood and treat stop signs as advisory. Clearly the threat of a regular ticket isn't deterring shit.

[Deleted]

I find this ridiculous.

[underwaterrhymes]

Does not bother me in the slightest.

[blink]

I dunno. I like this. If he didn't want to pay the fine, don't speed.

Especially since this was at least his second one so he knew what was up. But instead, dude thought he was above it and then complains because he could buy a new Mercedes with the fine money. But I bet he still can without it. I can't get angry about this.

[zoegirltx]

ok, so this doesn't bother most people.

Would you advocate something like this in the US?

[marina007]

They have the same rule in Norway - I kinda think it makes sense, tbh. Why should a penalty suck way more for a low earner than a high earner?

[lg28]

I don't like this, although I can't figure out why.

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2015 20:50:36 GMT -5 tacosforlife said:

As a pedestrian who routinely sees luxury cars run stop signs and red lights, I am cool with this. I am tired of seeing Mercedes and Lexus SUVs (usually with Maryland plates) roll through my neighborhood and treat stop signs as advisory. Clearly the threat of a regular ticket isn't deterring shit.

I don't think it is a deterrent for people of all incomes.

[darnkatz]

Apr 26, 2015 20:50:36 GMT -5 tacosforlife said:

As a pedestrian who routinely sees luxury cars run stop signs and red lights, I am cool with this. I am tired of seeing Mercedes and Lexus SUVs (usually with Maryland plates) roll through my neighborhood and treat stop signs as advisory. Clearly the threat of a regular ticket isn't deterring shit.

Yep. Although it's more Washington, Florida, and Texas plates (I live in WA by a military base). If one more asshole almost hits me while I'm walking with my toddler, I am going to lose my goddamn mind. 

I cheered a little for Finland.

[nursewife]

I have no issue with this at all. Not one bit.

[AAM2012]

Apr 26, 2015 21:11:09 GMT -5 lg28 said:

I don't like this, although I can't figure out why.

Sits next to you.

[penguingrrl]

I think it makes a lot more sense than having everyone pay the same dollar amount. If the point of a speeding ticket is to hit you where it hurts in the interest of convincing you to drive more safely, it needs to actually hurt. The same number will have greatly disparate impacts for people of vastly different means. I can't imagine the risk of a $250 ticket would deter him from speeding in the slightest since that's a drop in the bucket.

[pixy0stix]

If it's based on the same percentage of income, regardless of income amount, then I like this.

It's no different than a set dollar amount, except that its based on a set percentage. Everyone pays equally.

[overture]

I like the idea of progressive punishment, but, 64 in a 50, I don't know. Would that be the same fine as doing 79 in a 65? Because that's pretty routine on the freeways in my city, me included.

[josieposy]

How do they know the driver's income? Do the police have access to tax records from their squads?

[pixy0stix]

People. It's 14 mph over the speed limit. That's not just slightly edging over the limit.

[pixy0stix]

Apr 26, 2015 21:32:41 GMT -5 overture said:

I like the idea of progressive punishment, but, 64 in a 50, I don't know. Would that be the same fine as doing 79 in a 65? Because that's pretty routine on the freeways in my city, me included.

And you're admitting this?

[zoegirltx]

It's so funny they were all conditioned to speed, but none of us are deterred by the front of a speeding ticket.

[AAM2012]

Apr 26, 2015 21:39:13 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Apr 26, 2015 21:32:41 GMT -5 overture said:

I like the idea of progressive punishment, but, 64 in a 50, I don't know. Would that be the same fine as doing 79 in a 65? Because that's pretty routine on the freeways in my city, me included.

And you're admitting this?

I have no problem admitting this as I go with the flow of traffic which is going 80.

[overture]

Apr 26, 2015 21:39:13 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Apr 26, 2015 21:32:41 GMT -5 overture said:

I like the idea of progressive punishment, but, 64 in a 50, I don't know. Would that be the same fine as doing 79 in a 65? Because that's pretty routine on the freeways in my city, me included.

And you're admitting this?

~80 in the far left lane is the norm when traffic isn't backed up.  I wouldn't balk at getting pulled over for it, but I would think I was unlucky, considering everyone around me was doing the same thing.  I've never gotten a speeding ticket, and I don't recall ever being in the car with someone who got one either.  Unless you're in the right lane, drivers really don't expect you to be driving the speed limit.

[pixy0stix]

Apr 26, 2015 22:03:37 GMT -5 overture said:

Apr 26, 2015 21:39:13 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

And you're admitting this?

~80 in the far left lane is the norm when traffic isn't backed up.  I wouldn't balk at getting pulled over for it, but I would think I was unlucky, considering everyone around me was doing the same thing.  I've never gotten a speeding ticket, and I don't recall ever being in the car with someone who got one either.  Unless you're in the right lane, drivers really don't expect you to be driving the speed limit.

If everyone else was on their phones and driving off a cliff, would you do so as well? Especially as there are other lanes where you can travel safely at the speed limit.

Just because everyone else is doing it is not an excuse.

[pixy0stix]

Do you ever wonder *why* there are so many car accidents? Because people think that silly traffic laws don't apply to them. As long as everyone else is doing it, must be ok for me to do it too!

ETA: It never fails to astonish me that normally intelligent people can't figure out that speed limits are designed specifically for the conditions surrounding the roads. They're not numbers pulled out of thin air. wawa had a good explanation of how it is all calculated. I know how they do it, but I can't explain the specifics.

DRIVE. THE. SPEED. LIMIT. No excuses. You kill someone, it's on you and only you. Not just a fucking speeding ticket.

[sangria]

So would everyone be cool with someone who is unemployed paying zero because they have no income? Not snarky, legit question.