Post by creamsiclechica on Aug 5, 2015 18:18:08 GMT -5
I don't intend to bring drama from Married Life to our board, but considering the sentiments expressed about race, rape, etc in the posts compiled there, I have to publicly state that I am uncomfortable with you posting on our board, even if it's quietly about kid's clothes. I am fairly certain that opinions you've defended there offend and anger some of our members, so rather than let it slide now and become the scrutiny of GBCN later, I just wanted to make that known. stellas.
Yeah, I saw her post here today on bootd and wanted to say something. Thanks creamsiclechica for this thread. stellas, I'd also prefer you just move on.
Agreed. I think the viewpoints expressed by Stellas are fundamentally opposed to everything we have built here and strive for. Thank you Cream for speaking up.
Am I the only one who doesn't know who this person is?
ML regular. I'm not going to attach any more descriptors-- read the links and you can make your own assessments.
I checked out a few and wasn't impressed. Several ^o) to be had. Don't have to time to read the thirty pager though, lol. I'll take y'all's word on that one.
@tambcat The difference between you two is that you admitted to learning something. In all of my time lurking on ML, I've never seen her back down, even when it's been pointed out by several people why her views are wrong/ignorant. Even in her gbc-ML there wasn't any awareness of her actions. It isn't about just Rachel Dolezal either, it seems to be a pattern over the years and not some one time misstep.
You know, I learned a lot from that Rachel Delozal thread. I don't know if anyone remembers, but when we discussed her here, I did wonder if there could be an analogy drawn between her and Bruce Jenner. I had not even considered that the logical conclusion of those musings was that there was something fundamentally different between the brain of a black person and the brain of a white person (a suggestion I find alarming, btw). She says she didn't either. I also didn't realize there were biological markers in the brains of transgendered individuals. I didn't know the history of the concept of race. If no one had questioned, I wouldn't have learned. Maybe that is what LHC meant when she said Stellas had brought a lot to the board. I don't know.
To be clear, I don't fault anyone for writing her off over those comments alone, or in conjunction with her other statements. I wrote someone off on ML once for surrendering an elderly cat that wouldn't stop peeing all over the house. So. But it doesn't feel right to pretend I didn't have the same thought about Rachel Delozal and Bruce Jenner. The stories broke so closely to each other that I think a lot of people did.
I write this reply knowing that you have a much more nuanced view of stellas perspectives, being that you are a ML regular and I am not. I'm all for discussions including differing opinions and perspectives, because that is how you gain a greater understanding. But, that being said, what I was getting from stellas responses were not only viewpoints that were narrow and hurtful to others on the board, but a flippant attitude toward considering the other side of the argument. Discussions are only fruitful if everyone comes away with a better understanding of different facets of the issue, and to remain stubbornly hanging onto calcified opinions, even after being presented with a valid alternate viewpoint doesn't show that a person is that interested in evolving toward a more nuanced understanding.
Plus, she started posting here after gbcml-Ing in the midst of that shit-show without so much as a howdy-do hoping no one would notice? Um, no.
You know, I learned a lot from that Rachel Delozal thread. I don't know if anyone remembers, but when we discussed her here, I did wonder if there could be an analogy drawn between her and Bruce Jenner. I had not even considered that the logical conclusion of those musings was that there was something fundamentally different between the brain of a black person and the brain of a white person (a suggestion I find alarming, btw). She says she didn't either. I also didn't realize there were biological markers in the brains of transgendered individuals. I didn't know the history of the concept of race. If no one had questioned, I wouldn't have learned. Maybe that is what LHC meant when she said Stellas had brought a lot to the board. I don't know.
To be clear, I don't fault anyone for writing her off over those comments alone, or in conjunction with her other statements. I wrote someone off on ML once for surrendering an elderly cat that wouldn't stop peeing all over the house. So. But it doesn't feel right to pretend I didn't have the same thought about Rachel Delozal and Bruce Jenner. The stories broke so closely to each other that I think a lot of people did.
I write this reply knowing that you have a much more nuanced view of stellas perspectives, being that you are a ML regular and I am not. I'm all for discussions including differing opinions and perspectives, because that is how you gain a greater understanding. But, that being said, what I was getting from stellas responses were not only viewpoints that were narrow and hurtful to others on the board, but a flippant attitude toward considering the other side of the argument. Discussions are only fruitful if everyone comes away with a better understanding of different facets of the issue, and to remain stubbornly hanging onto calcified opinions, even after being presented with a valid alternate viewpoint doesn't show that a person is that interested in evolving toward a more nuanced understanding.
Plus, she started posting here after gbcml-Ing in the midst of that shit-show without so much as a howdy-do hoping no one would notice? Um, no.
This is actually incorrect. She started posting in the BOOTDs about a week prior, after posting in some other clothing related threads, to the epic ML thread. Continuing here is another matter...
@tambcat there's a huge difference, IMO. Based on FB alone, I think a LOT of people found that particular comparison both fascinating and confusing. You're saying "hey, I didn't know that". But the flippancy of her responses to that topic and refusal to even pretend to listen only piled onto the clusterf*ck.
Plus, she continued posting here after gbcml-Ing in the midst of that shit-show without so much as a howdy-do hoping no one would notice? Um, no.
This is actually incorrect. She started posting in the BOOTDs about a week prior, after posting in some other clothing related threads, to the epic ML thread. Continuing here is another matter...
I apologize and present a corrected timeline. Please change "started" to "continued" as seen above. ;-)
Yes, she is stubborn to a fault, and that has always frustrated me and the rest of ML. I wish she would just back down once in awhile! I mean, I get it up to a point, because it's hard for me to admit when I'm wrong too, but nobody can be right all the time, and it isn't worth pretending to be. Nor does every wild thought merit a defense, even if you can formulate one. I truly don't believe that she is any more racist than many of us who have grown up in a world where racism, both blatant and subtle, is so pervasive. Pro-life and opposed to gay marriage, well that is a different story. People on ML asked how I can remain friends with someone who has her views, and I don't can't answer except that I believe a person can't be reduced to a few bullet points. I will say she isn't the only friend I have with whom I disagree on those topics, and that might be a fault of mine.
I obviously don't know the depth of your friendship with her, but I feel like you're putting "blame" (for lack of a better term) on everyone except stellas herself. There are people on this very board who have talked about growing up in racist households who've managed not to hold the same views. Who are open to learning.
Going by that thread on ML, this isn't one off scenario. She really seems to hold these beliefs. So I disagree that she's being reduced to a few bullet points, she's had a decade or so to present a different side and hasn't as far as I can tell.
Other than liking clothes, Stellas and I have nothing in common. Her views on social issues are so far from mine that we could never be friends-IRL or here. I'm not comfortable being friends with someone who thinks the way she does about gay marriage, race, who thinks its okay to ask a poster if she can adopt their baby in an attempt to persuade them not to terminate, or mocks people who parent differently.
That said, I can interact with her and congratulate her on being cancer free (or whatever else might be going on in her life), or like a BOOTD post and honestly mean it, and still condemn some things she says. I can think its shitty for her to say hurtful ignorant things and also think its shitty for people to throw her marriage issues in her face again.
She admitted that she said things in the past to elicit reactions. I don't understand why she chooses the topics she does.
I also have yet to see an apology that actually appears to have some reflection and sincerity.
We obviously can't stop people from posting wherever they want, but I don't doubt that we will voice responses to asinine comments. We can continue to condemn hurtful hateful ignorant comments no matter who makes them.
I'm guessing (hoping?) that if she continues to post here and not go back to ML, she will stick to just posting in BOOTDs since its pretty hard to offend anyone with pics of cute kids.
fryjack2 do we really trust that she will stick just to Bootd? Not that I care since I'd rather she just find another board. I mean it's only a matter before she says something offensive.
Plus isn't this one of the reasons ouiser is really allowed on the board? People have been made to leave for less.
fryjack2 do we really trust that she will stick just to Bootd? Not that I care since I'd rather she just find another board. I mean it's only a matter before she says something offensive.
Plus isn't this one of the reasons ouiser is really allowed on the board? People have been made to leave for less.
I honestly don't know? I just don't see how we can ban a person from posting (not just stellas) wherever they want to. I also have faith that this board will not let shit slide.
I also wasn't really around during the start of this board and don't know history of a lot of the drama surrounding old posters like Ousier.
For what it's worth, I don't think many here hold who you are/were friends with against you (you figuratively). Lord knows I would have been ostracized long ago if that were the case.
Post by creamsiclechica on Aug 5, 2015 22:01:47 GMT -5
I'm not looking to ban someone from our board. That's not how the internet works. But I am looking to express my discomfort with her posting, and perhaps give voice to others who might have felt similarly about the subject. I don't wish her ill will, I don't think there's particular harm in posting outfits, but it's a very slippery slope for me. To silently allow someone who has posted genuinely offensive and poisonous opinions unapologetically runs in conflict to my position to speak out against people who do such things. I know she's posted here before, I've even liked her pictures of her children, but seeing how long and eeply held those opinions are makes the decision for me. That's just my opinion.
fryjack2 do we really trust that she will stick just to Bootd? Not that I care since I'd rather she just find another board. I mean it's only a matter before she says something offensive.
Plus isn't this one of the reasons ouiser is really allowed on the board? People have been made to leave for less.
I honestly don't know? I just don't see how we can ban a person from posting (not just stellas) wherever they want to. I also have faith that this board will not let shit slide.
I also wasn't really around during the start of this board and don't know history of a lot of the drama surrounding old posters like Ousier.
We can't ban them, but I'm not about to roll out the red carpet if she promises to limit herself to the Bootd.