LOL that all the fetuses have a right to life that the state must protect, but actual children's right to education is apparently dependent entirely on what their parents think should be provided and the state better back the fuck off.*
*Ironically, I get riled about how far the state goes in education and infringing on what I see as parental decisions, but seriously. Kids are entitled to education. Since they can't ensure that they get that themselves, the state does have a role to play in ensuring they are being educated. Get over it.
Even better, it's not the "government's business" what her children's level of education/proficiency is, but the government can (and should) be all up in my uterus and reproductive choices.Â
I'm not quite sure where I said that is the government's business. One can be against abortion but because of their feelings on liberty feel like government regulation is not the way to address or end it. I pretty much feel like the government needs to mind its own business across the board.
I feel the same way about this as I do about government aid, food stamps, section 8 housing.
Sure, there are people who either abuse the system or feel like the rules aren't fair. I fill out aid paperwork every single day and know for a fact that people cheat the system.... but if it prevents even a fraction of children and families from going through hell, the healthy folks can suck it.
How do you feel, knowing that your obstinate attitude might be harming the other home-schooled kid next door with less caring parents?
My question to homeschooling advocates is this: how do you propose that these cases be prevented? And do you strongly believe that your right to school your children however you please, with whatever standards (or not) you please, outweighs these children's right to have some sort of protection from abuse?
Or are you in the mindset of the HSLDA that what happens to other people's children is of zero concern to you and if children are being abused and killed, well, it's not your kids so it doesn't matter?
The answer to your second question is no, which is why I feel do strongly about abortion. If we're really worried about children being killed by their parents, homeschooling parents are just a fraction of the problem.
In Ohio homeschoolers have two options. They can notify with the state and submit curricula. Each year when they submit they also have to submit an assessment from the previous year (either test scores or approval from licensed teacher).
Or they can form their own non-chartered, non-tax school. Parents must gave at least a bachelors and notify their school district that their kids are attending a private school each year. No assessments are required.
We obviously choose the latter. While governmemt has no oversight on my curricula and results, they are aware that there are school-aged children in my home. My children are not unaccounted for.
I have no problem with notifying the government that my kids are home. I just think what I teach is none of their business.
I have a hard time believing that a child can go years being starved without someone - an extended fsmily member, a person driving by the house, a stranger in thr grocery store - recognizing there is a problem. Of course, the child could be kept from ever leaving the house, but even then, a test that is taken online and submitted yearly to a school district isn't going to show ant kind of abuse.
The answer is at a community level. We have systems in place to deal with abuse. People need to keep their eyes open and look for signs. I have a hard te believing that a teenager who had probably been rummaging through dumpsters for years had never been noticed. If people looked up from their phones once in a while and observed what is going on around them, these kids may be saved.
Like I said, assessments won't solve this. It will just erode the rights of the people doing it right. I know bad honeschoolers. There are licensed teachers willing to sign off on doctored assessments for money. These teachers are well-known in homeschholimg communitites. The abusers are going to get away with it even with government regulation.
Post by sparrowsong on Aug 27, 2015 14:04:49 GMT -5
More of an aside to this larger discussion, but I'm currently watching Pioneer Woman on cooking channel and she mentioned they homeschool.
How can two people who run a ranch and her giant cooking show/blog/business possibly have time to manage the education of 4? 5? children? Doesn't it require at least one full time parent? I can't help to think this is more unschooling than homeschooling.
I'm not opposed to homeschooling. But everytime I hear about specific situations like this I just think - yeah, I barely have enough hours in the day as it is and I live in a condo and don't run my own business. I couldn't possibly. I like the idea of a place with a professional educator on math, and one on literature, and one on art... and wow, how convenient that they are all in one building! Yes! Send the kids there!
More of an aside to this larger discussion, but I'm currently watching Pioneer Woman on cooking channel and she mentioned they homeschool.
How can two people who run a ranch and her giant cooking show/blog/business possibly have time to manage the education of 4? 5? children? Doesn't it require at least one full time parent? I can't help to think this is more unschooling than homeschooling.
I'm not opposed to homeschooling. But everytime I hear about specific situations like this I just think - yeah, I barely have enough hours in the day as it is and I live in a condo and don't run my own business. I couldn't possibly. I like the idea of a place with a professional educator on math, and one on literature, and one on art... and wow, how convenient that they are all in one building! Yes! Send the kids there!
My guess is they hire tutors. At least I hope they do.
More of an aside to this larger discussion, but I'm currently watching Pioneer Woman on cooking channel and she mentioned they homeschool.
How can two people who run a ranch and her giant cooking show/blog/business possibly have time to manage the education of 4? 5? children? Doesn't it require at least one full time parent? I can't help to think this is more unschooling than homeschooling.
I'm not opposed to homeschooling. But everytime I hear about specific situations like this I just think - yeah, I barely have enough hours in the day as it is and I live in a condo and don't run my own business. I couldn't possibly. I like the idea of a place with a professional educator on math, and one on literature, and one on art... and wow, how convenient that they are all in one building! Yes! Send the kids there!
Because his ranch is a huge corporate run facility. They have a lot of staff for the ranch and her show. Pioneer Woman is full of shit.
My guess is they hire tutors. At least I hope they do.
She's mentioned a homeschooling co-op.
Yes I'm pretty sure they are in a co-op so I assume they go there and she works on her non-assisting at the co-op days. I'm pretty sure they block film(ed) the show so she would fillm a bunch of shows over x number of weeks and then be done too.
Post by darthnbjenni on Aug 27, 2015 14:24:42 GMT -5
My SD is being homeschooled by her mother, who was also a product of homeschool and subscriber to jean skirts, high hair, and everything fundie. Our state has such low standards for homeschoolers that it's downright neglectful. And since she's the primary custodian (no join custody here), she gets final say in her education, unless we can prove that it's harming SD. Her curriculum consists of gradelevel workbooks purchased from Abeka or Bob Jones. Her socialization consists of the church that her mother's family created in someone's basement. Thankfully, I am a teacher and am able to open SD's world to other possibilities than getting married at 18 and popping out babies. Seeing that SD is barely at a K5 reading level when she's supposedly in 2nd grade, we're hoping to get her into real school soon enough.
My SD is being homeschooled by her mother, who was also a product of homeschool and subscriber to jean skirts, high hair, and everything fundie. Our state has such low standards for homeschoolers that it's downright neglectful. And since she's the primary custodian (no join custody here), she gets final say in her education, unless we can prove that it's harming SD. Her curriculum consists of gradelevel workbooks purchased from Abeka or Bob Jones. Her socialization consists of the church that her mother's family created in someone's basement. Thankfully, I am a teacher and am able to open SD's world to other possibilities than getting married at 18 and popping out babies. Seeing that SD is barely at a K5 reading level when she's supposedly in 2nd grade, we're hoping to get her into real school soon enough.
Butbutbut! She can go to North Greenville University, the paragon of academic excellence!!
All kidding aside, that's terrifying and I feel like I should offer my support from a recovering homeschooler who was subjected to Bob Jones textbooks. ::shudder::
More of an aside to this larger discussion, but I'm currently watching Pioneer Woman on cooking channel and she mentioned they homeschool.
How can two people who run a ranch and her giant cooking show/blog/business possibly have time to manage the education of 4? 5? children? Doesn't it require at least one full time parent? I can't help to think this is more unschooling than homeschooling.
I'm not opposed to homeschooling. But everytime I hear about specific situations like this I just think - yeah, I barely have enough hours in the day as it is and I live in a condo and don't run my own business. I couldn't possibly. I like the idea of a place with a professional educator on math, and one on literature, and one on art... and wow, how convenient that they are all in one building! Yes! Send the kids there!
Because his ranch is a huge corporate run facility. They have a lot of staff for the ranch and her show. Pioneer Woman is full of shit.
LOL
I used to read her blog and found it really annoying, but I've found her likable on her show! But I still think anyone spending that much time photographing chopping an onion isn't spending too much time teaching algebra and US history.
What if one or more of your kids decided they'd rather go to public school?
We assess the situation every summer. The kids, my DH and I to see if things are still working for us. Frankly, my kids have expressed that they know they have it good and wouldn't want to change their lifestyle to conform to public school.
I feel the same way about this as I do about government aid, food stamps, section 8 housing.
Sure, there are people who either abuse the system or feel like the rules aren't fair. I fill out aid paperwork every single day and know for a fact that people cheat the system.... but if it prevents even a fraction of children and families from going through hell, the healthy folks can suck it.
How do you feel, knowing that your obstinate attitude might be harming the other home-schooled kid next door with less caring parents?
and all those women using abortion as a form of birth control. cause there's so many. she's always a friend of a friend.
My SD is being homeschooled by her mother, who was also a product of homeschool and subscriber to jean skirts, high hair, and everything fundie. Our state has such low standards for homeschoolers that it's downright neglectful. And since she's the primary custodian (no join custody here), she gets final say in her education, unless we can prove that it's harming SD. Her curriculum consists of gradelevel workbooks purchased from Abeka or Bob Jones. Her socialization consists of the church that her mother's family created in someone's basement. Thankfully, I am a teacher and am able to open SD's world to other possibilities than getting married at 18 and popping out babies. Seeing that SD is barely at a K5 reading level when she's supposedly in 2nd grade, we're hoping to get her into real school soon enough.
Butbutbut! She can go to North Greenville University, the paragon of academic excellence!!
All kidding aside, that's terrifying and I feel like I should offer my support from a recovering homeschooler who was subjected to Bob Jones textbooks. ::shudder::
NGU would be a step up from where my husband's family forced him to go - Bob Jones Academy. The dude joined the Army to get out of going to BJU, and thankfully has talked his younger brother into dropping out of BJU and going to ECPI instead. Unfortunately, SIL is still allllll about the BJU. You know that my SD is receiving a shoddy education when we offered to pay for SD to go to Bob Jones Academy or another small, Christian private school. Which makes me die a little inside as a liberal, agnostic, feminist.
More of an aside to this larger discussion, but I'm currently watching Pioneer Woman on cooking channel and she mentioned they homeschool.
How can two people who run a ranch and her giant cooking show/blog/business possibly have time to manage the education of 4? 5? children? Doesn't it require at least one full time parent? I can't help to think this is more unschooling than homeschooling.
I'm not opposed to homeschooling. But everytime I hear about specific situations like this I just think - yeah, I barely have enough hours in the day as it is and I live in a condo and don't run my own business. I couldn't possibly. I like the idea of a place with a professional educator on math, and one on literature, and one on art... and wow, how convenient that they are all in one building! Yes! Send the kids there!
Because his ranch is a huge corporate run facility. They have a lot of staff for the ranch and her show. Pioneer Woman is full of shit.
Don't forget a plagiarist who shameless rips off mediocre recipes from church cookbooks throughout Oklahoma and Texas!!!
I don't have a problem with homeschooling per se. I think it is a perfectly valid alternative for children who do not prosper in the current schooling environment. But I think it is reasonable for a state to insist on some sort of documentation that the student is actually learning something during this homeschooling, and that there are some safety measures in place to make sure these kids don't fall through the social welfare cracks.
I agree. I'm not crazy about homeschooling and I wouldn't want to do it myself. But at the same time we can't deny that there are many children and teens who do not do well in traditional public schools for various reasons (bullying being a major one). If you live in a large urban area, then perhaps you can look into charter or magnate schools or even private schools if you happen to have the extra money. If you live in a small town or rural area, however, homeschooling might be your only alternative and I don't think it should be taken away. Some degree of public over sight is clearly required though.
Re pioneer woman, she might be a client for one of those services which sends you materials and helps you find tutors, etc. My SIL works for one and has a lot of celebrity clients who don't feel comfortable sending their children to regular schools.
I was homeschooled for the majority of my K-12 education. I attended public school for a few years in elementary school. On the surface I'm sure it appeared to most people that, at least as far as homeschooling goes, I was receiving a solid education. My mother is college educated. She purchased curriculum for us to use every year. She started a homeschool group that was very active in our area. The actual education I received was appalling. My mom provided little to no guidance and my education was self guided. If I wanted to learn more about a subject I could seek out more information on my own (which I did often). If I struggled in an area I had no support and I would eventually stop trying to learn that particular topic. I think at the very least annual testing should be required. If a homeschooling parent is actually interested in educating their children they shouldn't be afraid to demonstrate their children are learning. If their child is falling behind in a certain area testing could help them identify that and address it. I wish there had been more requirements in place so that when I got to college I wasn't playing catch-up with basic concepts that other people had been taught in school.
Every person I know who was homeschooled had a similar experience to mine. I realize this is anecdotal and is not the experience others may have had with homeschooling, but I believe annual testing would have helped to ensure I received a more solid education.
I cananswer the kids feeling like they have it good part because we just had this conversation a few days ago. Today was the first day back at school in out district and my 8yos best friend went back. This is always a sad time for him because there are no more weekday playdates. My son has talked a lot to his friend about what happens in school and is not interested at all. I asked him if he is sad that he doesn't get to go to school with his friend and he said "if I go to school I have to wake earlier, I don't get to do my lessons outside anymore and wouldn't get to play with my brother and sisters all day. No way. " He's a product of homeschool, so his siblings are hid truest buddies and he would miss thrm more than he woyld enjoy being around his buddy all day. I'm sure that would be different if he hadn't been homeschooled. He also is used to formal lessons only lasting a few hours a day, because you get eork done fast when you're one-on-one. He doesn't want to give up having free time the rest of the day. And he doesn't enjoy sitting at a desk. He likes doing school at the park or snuggled up on the couch.
We've always said that we would give the kids a choice in high school. But after tasting such freedom, I don't think public school sounds appealing. Especially if they feel they have adequate social outlets.
Post by hopecounts on Aug 27, 2015 15:03:39 GMT -5
And that's part of the problem with homeschooling. Real life doesn't usually work like that. You do have to get up and go to a job, you do have to give up free time to work so you can pay the bills, etc. School is the training ground for some of these realities so that when it's time you are prepared.
I cananswer the kids feeling like they have it good part because we just had this conversation a few days ago. Today was the first day back at school in out district and my 8yos best friend went back. This is always a sad time for him because there are no more weekday playdates. My son has talked a lot to his friend about what happens in school and is not interested at all. I asked him if he is sad that he doesn't get to go to school with his friend and he said "if I go to school I have to wake earlier, I don't get to do my lessons outside anymore and wouldn't get to play with my brother and sisters all day. No way. " He's a product of homeschool, so his siblings are hid truest buddies and he would miss thrm more than he woyld enjoy being around his buddy all day. I'm sure that would be different if he hadn't been homeschooled. He also is used to formal lessons only lasting a few hours a day, because you get eork done fast when you're one-on-one. He doesn't want to give up having free time the rest of the day. And he doesn't enjoy sitting at a desk. He likes doing school at the park or snuggled up on the couch.
We've always said that we would give the kids a choice in high school. But after tasting such freedom, I don't think public school sounds appealing. Especially if they feel they have adequate social outlets.
I can't imagine that any 8 year old you ask"would you rather be in school for the day or do a couple hours of work at home and have free time the rest of the day" would not pick the extra free time. But there is actual reason and value behind the full school day and sitting still at a desk for periods of time, it's not just a punishment for kids- it's learning about focus, concentration, behaving properly in a environment full of your peers, self-control. And the length of the school day has nothing to do with lessons taking longer because they are conducted in a group setting vs. 1 on 1.
If you ask my kid if she'd rather learn about science curled up on the couch or sitting in a classroom she's going to pick couch. Just like if I could perform my job every single day by being outside or curled up on my couch, I would but I live in the world where I have responsibility to get up on time, be accountable to others and responsible for completing work in a manner that is expected of me.
And that's part of the problem with homeschooling. Real life doesn't usually work like that. You do have to get up and go to a job, you do have to give up free time to work so you can pay the bills, etc. School is the training ground for some of these realities so that when it's time you are prepared.
AW, when your children are older, what's your plan for teaching them Physics or Calculus?
That was a question.
Not lurkingaw but I will answer what my family did.
I was home schooled in high school including classes like physics, calculus, algebra 3, etc We bought curriculum from a national home schooling school that provided all the textbooks, work, and graded the tests, papers, and bigger assignments. They had teachers available by phone and email for questions. I was highly successful and went on to a 4 year university and earned a degree in Nursing. I completed all of my assignments by myself, and my mom periodically checked that I was doing work. It was absolutely the best thing for me.
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And that's part of the problem with homeschooling. Real life doesn't usually work like that. You do have to get up and go to a job, you do have to give up free time to work so you can pay the bills, etc. School is the training ground for some of these realities so that when it's time you are prepared.
No. School is the training ground for one type of reality and future. Entreprenuers can make their own schedules. People can work different shifts if they aren't morning people. People can work from home in their pjs if they hate being around people. You can get a job working outside if you hate being inside.
I would argue that homeschooling prepares you better for the wide variety of options available in the workforce. Not everyone will or wants to work a 9-5 in an office setting.