I'm really, really disturbed by what seems like...delight? people take in crucifying strangers via social media for their fuckups. I keep meaning to pick up Jon Ronson's book about it.
But this behavior is nothing new*; people used to get tarred and feathered or put in the stocks to shame them for what was deemed unacceptable behavior. Sometimes they were even literally run out of town (on a rail). I think internet/social media shaming is the modern day version. Unfortunately, the scope of the internet can make it difficult to start fresh somewhere else.
*not saying it's okay, just that it's been a part of humanity since we formed social groups
That's kind of the point. Also, how long has it been since tarring and feathering was accepted and in common practice? And for what offenses? I don't think it's a very useful analogy.
But this behavior is nothing new*; people used to get tarred and feathered or put in the stocks to shame them for what was deemed unacceptable behavior. Sometimes they were even literally run out of town (on a rail). I think internet/social media shaming is the modern day version. Unfortunately, the scope of the internet can make it difficult to start fresh somewhere else.
*not saying it's okay, just that it's been a part of humanity since we formed social groups
That's kind of the point. Also, how long has it been since tarring and feathering was accepted and in common practice? And for what offenses? I don't think it's a very useful analogy.
I used those examples because they were extreme forms of social shaming and I view the extent to which some people today internet shame others extreme as well.
Not OK. What's the difference between this and leaving the child in a hot car? Her child could have been in just as much danger as being left in a hot car. She didn't realize it for 40 minutes, if she realized it even before she got out the parking lot, I think it would be different, but 40 minutes is a long time. I don't understand why she's getting a pass when so many other moms/dads don't.
Well for starters, she left him in his car seat in a shopping cart in an air conditioned store. Second, it's nothing like leaving a baby in a hot car because of the part where I just said she left him in an air conditioned store.
No, she left him in the shopping cart OUTSIDE the store. This story is local to me, the picture I saw that someone snapped had him in the cart by the cart return OUTSIDE the store. That's why the story makes a point of saying the officer took the baby inside a salon (with a/c). Phoenix, August, I don't remember how hot it was that day, but likely over 105.
It's not as dangerous as being in a parked car, but 40 mins outside in that weather is no small thing.
Well for starters, she left him in his car seat in a shopping cart in an air conditioned store. Second, it's nothing like leaving a baby in a hot car because of the part where I just said she left him in an air conditioned store.
No, she left him in the shopping cart OUTSIDE the store. This story is local to me, the picture I saw that someone snapped had him in the cart by the cart return OUTSIDE the store. That's why the story makes a point of saying the officer took the baby inside a salon (with a/c). Phoenix, August, I don't remember how hot it was that day, but likely over 105.
It's not as dangerous as being in a parked car, but 40 mins outside in that weather is no small thing.
Ahh, OK. Reading comp fail. (Gif stays, though, because it's awesome. )
I didn't mean to imply that the desire to publicly shame people is new; only that being able to do so immediately, anonymously, and globally is relatively new and that people do it with such zeal is scary to me. I think the gladiator games is a more apt analogy because this feels less like shaming a member of your community for doing something really bad and more like getting off watching--and participating in--someone's life being destroyed just for funsies.
Not OK. What's the difference between this and leaving the child in a hot car? Her child could have been in just as much danger as being left in a hot car. She didn't realize it for 40 minutes, if she realized it even before she got out the parking lot, I think it would be different, but 40 minutes is a long time. I don't understand why she's getting a pass when so many other moms/dads don't.
Settle down, worlds best mom. Your commemorative mug hasn't arrived yet.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
Post by EllieArroway on Sept 1, 2015 19:57:16 GMT -5
When DS was a month old we once drove 40 miles to MIL's house only to find when we got there that I never buckled him into his car seat. I still almost have a panic attack when I think about it 5 years later. He fell asleep before we left the house, and I put him down in the bucket seat while we packed everything and loaded the car. When we left I just grabbed his seat and clicked it in place. Totally forgot that he wasn't buckled.
I didn't mean to imply that the desire to publicly shame people is new; only that being able to do so immediately, anonymously, and globally is relatively new and that people do it with such zeal is scary to me. I think the gladiator games is a more apt analogy because this feels less like shaming a member of your community for doing something really bad and more like getting off watching--and participating in--someone's life being destroyed just for funsies.
Oh I fully agree. I just meant that people getting swept up in these "punishment" extremes isn't really that new.
This totally could have been me. My baby is the same age and I have a 3.5 year old. Some days I'm so tired that I actually have an app that sounds an alarm each time my car is turned off so I don't forget a child. I couldn't imagine how exhausted and frazzled I'd be with two additional children.
Not OK. What's the difference between this and leaving the child in a hot car? Her child could have been in just as much danger as being left in a hot car. She didn't realize it for 40 minutes, if she realized it even before she got out the parking lot, I think it would be different, but 40 minutes is a long time. I don't understand why she's getting a pass when so many other moms/dads don't.
She's getting a pass because this wasn't the usual case of a parent running into the store and leaving a kid in the car (we have debated that here already, no need to reprise) and people are starting to get that shit happens, and sometimes as PP have noted, you can and do forget your kid.
But keep on keeping on with your perfect parenting self.
Exactly. We save the pitchforks for when the parent left the kid in the car ON PURPOSE because they were 'just running in to the store.'
My Mom and a Dad took my sister and I shopping at she 3/4. They split up. My Mom took me mand thought my Dad had my sister. My Dad thought my Mom did. They met up an hour later. My sister was sitting on a brunch with an old couple saying 'I don't have any parents' No police. No social media shaming. My Mother almost passed out but all was well. We were lucky. Stuff happens. It takes a village.
The article I read implied that she left her other kid(s?) in the car. I'll try to see if I can find it.
Yes, she mentioned she hadn't gotten her other children out of the car, so she had forgotten she had gotten the baby out. It sounds like she left the other kids in the car while she ran her errand but maybe she had another adult with her that stayed in the car?
I didn't mean to imply that the desire to publicly shame people is new; only that being able to do so immediately, anonymously, and globally is relatively new and that people do it with such zeal is scary to me. I think the gladiator games is a more apt analogy because this feels less like shaming a member of your community for doing something really bad and more like getting off watching--and participating in--someone's life being destroyed just for funsies.
I just yesterday finished reading the Jon Ronson book and some of the cases he uses as examples had me so anxious. The vitriol piled on these people was so complete that it made me want to quit the internets all together. I haven't, of course, but still.
Post by lurkingdobalina on Sept 1, 2015 21:22:58 GMT -5
If she was a black woman, she'd have been in jail by now. Remember the woman who left the baby in the car during her interview? Wasn't that in Arizona as well? Cherish is white and therefore she's an exhausted new mom who needs a break and won't be looked at too hard. Right or wrong I don't know, but white privilege is strong here.
Two kids and I have driven home in the throes of newborn exhaustion without doing up their carseats twice - despite this being something I do on autopilot and would think I could never forget as part of the getting the kid in the car routine on a normal day. I can absolutely see how this could happen, she must feel terrible. I can't imagine that panic.
The article I read implied that she left her other kid(s?) in the car. I'll try to see if I can find it.
Yes, she mentioned she hadn't gotten her other children out of the car, so she had forgotten she had gotten the baby out. It sounds like she left the other kids in the car while she ran her errand but maybe she had another adult with her that stayed in the car?
Yes this is it. I don't know if that is what she meant or not. Clearly leaving your kids in a car in the Arizona summer heat is not a good idea though.
The article I read implied that she left her other kid(s?) in the car. I'll try to see if I can find it.
Yes, she mentioned she hadn't gotten her other children out of the car, so she had forgotten she had gotten the baby out. It sounds like she left the other kids in the car while she ran her errand but maybe she had another adult with her that stayed in the car?
I interpreted that to mean that she got home, went to get her kids out, but then didn't and turned right around to go back to the store. SO she didn't gt the other kids out of the car and not notice that she was missing one.
If she was a black woman, she'd have been in jail by now. Remember the woman who left the baby in the car during her interview? Wasn't that in Arizona as well? Cherish is white and therefore she's an exhausted new mom who needs a break and won't be looked at too hard. Right or wrong I don't know, but white privilege is strong here.
I don't disagree that this is happening here. I had compassion in both stories because both seemed worthy of compassion, not condemnation. Both seemed like mothers who were doing their best and life happens (whether it's needing a job interview and having childcare fall through at the very last second or having a momentary lapse turn serious). But you're right that the reaction of people en mass has been totally different and there is almost certainly a race component. I'll also admit that since I haven't read anything about this story except on here I had no idea what race she was, not that it would have factored at all into my opinion that she made a one-time mistake and we're all at risk of similar.
Yes, she mentioned she hadn't gotten her other children out of the car, so she had forgotten she had gotten the baby out. It sounds like she left the other kids in the car while she ran her errand but maybe she had another adult with her that stayed in the car?
I interpreted that to mean that she got home, went to get her kids out, but then didn't and turned right around to go back to the store. SO she didn't gt the other kids out of the car and not notice that she was missing one.
This is how I read it as well. She mentioned that her 3 yo noticed the baby was missing while she was still driving. I think her quote was taken out of context.
She was meaning - it's not like I went home and got all if my other kids out if the car and didn't notice the baby was missing. We never even got out of the car.
My mom did this very thing to me at the grocery store when I was 6. She came back about 20 minutes later when she was chatting with me in the car and realized I wasn't responding cuz I wasn't there. There was no media firestorm and no endangerment charges. I turned out just fine.
I realize the kid in the story is much younger, but I also know I can't judge this woman cuz it totally happens. The kid was not harmed.
I left my infant in her car seat in my older kid's preschool class. Left building, got in my car, was leaving parking lot when I realized the car was eerily quiet.
If I had 3 other kids in my car, I probably would not have noticed till I got home.
Not OK. What's the difference between this and leaving the child in a hot car? Her child could have been in just as much danger as being left in a hot car. She didn't realize it for 40 minutes, if she realized it even before she got out the parking lot, I think it would be different, but 40 minutes is a long time. I don't understand why she's getting a pass when so many other moms/dads don't.
If she was a black woman, she'd have been in jail by now. Remember the woman who left the baby in the car during her interview? Wasn't that in Arizona as well? Cherish is white and therefore she's an exhausted new mom who needs a break and won't be looked at too hard. Right or wrong I don't know, but white privilege is strong here.
stop it. The lady who left her multiple children in the hot car during an 'interview' had $300k raised and given to her. She gave it to her ex boyfriend for recording studio time to become a rapper. She spent all of it, despite being told repeatedly to put some of it in accounts for the children. i think she's in jail now. She was a scammer then and a scammer now. That story is not comparable to this one.
You've missed the point entirely. She wouldn't have even been in the situation to be arrested at all had she been an upper middle class white Mormon lady.
You've missed the point entirely. She wouldn't have even been in the situation to be arrested at all had she been an upper middle class white Mormon lady.
she absolutely would have! Shanesha Taylor intentionally left her 2 year old and 6 month old in a hot car for like an hour. Intentionally. And Mormon girl was charged.
I can totally see how it would happen with multiple littles and the haze of postpartum sleep deprivation.
One of my dear friends, who is a terrific mom of 4, once left her 4 year old son behind at a restaurant. Her BIL/SIL and their 3 kids were visiting and they decided to go out to dinner. The first restaurant took an inordinate amount of time to set up their table for 11, so they left and crossed the parking lot to the Applebee's on the other side. It wasn't until they were seated at the table some 15 minutes later that my friend asked her BIL who was talking his sons to the bathroom before the food came to take hers that she noticed him missing.
You've missed the point entirely. She wouldn't have even been in the situation to be arrested at all had she been an upper middle class white Mormon lady.
she absolutely would have! Shanesha Taylor intentionally left her 2 year old and 6 month old in a hot car for like an hour. Intentionally. And Mormon girl was charged.
Oh. So employment rates for minority single mothers are suddenly at parity with their white counterparts? Everything from the abysmal unemployment rates to the lack of childcare contributed to a mother being desperate enough to take a job interview that she would leave her kids in a hot car. Those factors plus the arrest rates of black people compared to white people for the same crimes all show a different story than the one you're seeing.