Do you identify as a feminist? Why or why not?

[StrawberryBlondie]

Oct 15, 2015 10:34:43 GMT -5 orriskitten said:

Oct 15, 2015 9:58:13 GMT -5 @littlemoxie said:

I can see how that would happen.

But college students are assholes.  Unless you camp out for two days and raise money for homeless people, you don't care ENOUGH.  If you don't join the protest by taping your mouth and doing an overnight vigil, you don't care about whatever ENOUGH.

I guess I'd just hope that you reconsider, because the feminist movement needs more normal people like you and the more of us there are, the less the crazy ones define the movement.

At my college, it was all about being multicultural and a cultural relativist.  If you judged anything, you were being intolerant.  Now I think "fuck them, some shit is just wrong!"  I write it off as dogmatic youth.

My school was all about feminism and LGBTQ rights. There was a tiny male population and next to no POC. The only non-whites and not rich kids were in the scholarship program that I was in. They tried to fight for more multiculturalism, or at least for the school to acknowledge that it was disproportionately white, but it never came to anything while I was there and it got ugly and even more isolating. I was glad to be away from a lot of those people.

Did we go to the same school?

[gpw]

Oct 15, 2015 11:23:02 GMT -5 @246baje said:

Oct 15, 2015 11:18:54 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

Heh.  Not surprised at the staunch defender.

Yeah she's on my list.

Please don't put me on your list!  I WENT TO STARBUCKS.  (yes, I recognize you're not talking about me here, but I still wanted to make a plea!)

[orriskitten]

Oct 15, 2015 11:23:53 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Oct 15, 2015 10:34:43 GMT -5 orriskitten said:

My school was all about feminism and LGBTQ rights. There was a tiny male population and next to no POC. The only non-whites and not rich kids were in the scholarship program that I was in. They tried to fight for more multiculturalism, or at least for the school to acknowledge that it was disproportionately white, but it never came to anything while I was there and it got ugly and even more isolating. I was glad to be away from a lot of those people.

Did we go to the same school?

Lol did you study in NYC?

[sushi]

Oct 15, 2015 11:05:23 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Oct 15, 2015 10:54:35 GMT -5 skwcm80 said:

link

I read the first page and the last page. I'm going to have to dedicate the time to read the middle. But in the meantime, HI LURKERS! You should participate.

Oh. One page was bad enough.

[earlgreyhot]

Oct 15, 2015 11:14:32 GMT -5 froggy76 said:

I am a feminist and I believe everyone on this board is as well, whether they want that label or not. That said, I really appreciate the comments in this thread and it's very eye-opening. I can definitely see how much of the feminist movement has been driven by and geared toward white women, with the expectation that black women will benefit next. That is definitely true and I'm glad it's been pointed out because it never crossed my mind until I read it on this board. I also can understand how women who SAH feel judged by some bad feminists.

Still, it kills me to hear women say they aren't feminist. It perpetuates the myth that feminism is something controversial or that a few nuts speak for all feminists. Lena Dunham doesn't represent you? Fine. That doesn't mean you are not a feminist, it just means she is not a good representation of all feminists.

I see this happening to BLM, too. The movement has been mis-interpreted to be violent and cop-hating. Anyone who says they don't support it is just perpetuating this stupidity.

In totally agreement with you!

[Michelle]

Oct 15, 2015 7:32:22 GMT -5 eclaires said:

I used to not, now I do. Mostly because I decided I don't give a fuck what other people think feminism is or what the "right" way to be a feminist is. I consider myself a feminist and if people think some of my positions/beliefs or life choices aren't feminist, they can take a flying leap. I decided I was tired of people defining something by their own metric and telling me that I'm not a feminist. Who made them the final arbiter of that? Fuck off.

this.

And some folks here would say I'm not because of certain things.
And some folks in my circle wish I wouldn't because of other things.

I'm pro-empowerment of women. So I consider myself a feminist and that it is an awesome thing. I don't care if other feminists or anti-feminists agree with me or not.

[ringstrue]

I'm in this committee at work to propose ways our employer can help with diversity in the workplace. We had a retreat and all the white women described themselves as feminists (actually, usually "daughter, mother, wife, friend, feminist" ::sigh: and none of the black women did. Something I never would have noticed before our intersectionalism discussions.

I consciously try to not just describe myself IRL to others but moreso let my actions and POV convey those things. If asked, I would say yes or no.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Oct 15, 2015 11:26:50 GMT -5 orriskitten said:

Oct 15, 2015 11:23:53 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Did we go to the same school?

Lol did you study in NYC?

Haha, no, St. Paul. But that so perfectly described my college.

[earlgreyhot]

Oct 15, 2015 11:48:32 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Oct 15, 2015 11:20:09 GMT -5 earlgreyhot said:

Ok, haven't read through all the pages. However, I think if you are a woman who believes men and women should have equal rights and protections under the law then you are a feminist.

I think all of women must stay vigilant to the cause of feminism in some degree, but that means different things to different women. And it's going to constantly change as more women are vocalizing their experiences so we all can learn.

Sadly, I feel like this is going to turn into more each one teach one type of things.
I'm exhausted doing this on the black front.
Having to keep teaching about being black and female seems far too exhausting.
I don't have it in me to fight on two fronts. Sorry. 

What I imagine all women do is fight the fight that is in front of them, without thinking the label or movements they are representing.  

[jojoandleo]

Oct 15, 2015 10:54:35 GMT -5 skwcm80 said:

Oct 15, 2015 10:44:05 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

Damn I wish I could find that.  Stellas was the worst.

link

That was a rabbit hole. I wasn't an MLer, but I never understood the kid gloves people used to use with Stellas. She wasn't all wide eyed, and innocent, just a person who grew up in a small town who was willing to learn.  She was blatantly racist, sexist, bigoted with no want to ever actually debate or learn. 

[summer]

I consider myself a feminist, but largely because I don't think White women get to embody and define the term, though they may put themselves front and center.

I will never forget that we were often not on the same side. When Black women were being raped and having their babies snatched up and sold, White women stood right by their men and let that happen. Encouraged it at times even. And then made that same Black woman suckle their babies. That will always be there in the back of my mind. Are we sisters really? Probably not. We're competitors in a lot of ways. And I do have to think about Black men when I make decisions. I can't come up without them. We were brought over on the same boat.

Buuut, I want equality for all women. I want everyone to have choices and opportunity. I have daughters, so yes, of course, I'm a proud, Black feminist. "Black" and "feminist" both carry weight, but not always equal weight. It depends on the topic.

[5thofjuly]

Oct 15, 2015 11:48:32 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Oct 15, 2015 11:20:09 GMT -5 earlgreyhot said:

Ok, haven't read through all the pages. However, I think if you are a woman who believes men and women should have equal rights and protections under the law then you are a feminist.

I think all of women must stay vigilant to the cause of feminism in some degree, but that means different things to different women. And it's going to constantly change as more women are vocalizing their experiences so we all can learn.

Sadly, I feel like this is going to turn into more each one teach one type of things.
I'm exhausted doing this on the black front.
Having to keep teaching about being black and female seems far too exhausting.
I don't have it in me to fight on two fronts. Sorry. 

Honest answer? This is a big part of why I tend not to post in some of the threads about race here. I'm outraged, I'm incensed, and I frequently share the stories with my classes, but I also feel like I have three choices if I post:

1. Just say "this is terrible!" (or the equivalent) which feels so trite given the seriousness and awfulness of many of the stories
2. As a question, which I feel puts the onus on black posters to have to teach yet one.more.white.woman about X
3. Leave a substantive comment, but risk accidentally saying something that is unintentionally offensive and hurt someone's feelings. 

In short, I'm a total chicken. I'll work on being braver. 


And to those who mentioned college feminists- hell, I'm in charge of our gender studies program here and I'M not feminist enough for many college feminists. In fact, I find the way they present some of their viewpoints downright simplistic and annoying, BUT I also realize it's just a stage in the developmental process of joining any new movement as a young adult.

[sushi]

Can I ask what people think of bell hooks? She informed my feminism as much as Gloria steinam

[rugbywife]

Oct 15, 2015 10:05:37 GMT -5 @koko said:

I will add that the desire to be considered equal to men is also not something that I instinctively relate to. Because when white feminists talk about that, they are really talking about "equal to white men", since that's their opposite. And considering black men are apparently too scary to hold the door for folks at an ATM or shop in a Georgetown store, and keep getting shot by cops, I don't really want to be "equal" to black men. I want black men AND women to be equal to white men AND women.

The perils of being a double minority.

Also, I feel like a lot of the white feminists who are all "HRC FOR PRESIDENT, IT'S ABOUT TIME WE HAD A WOMAN!" would side eye the ever-loving shit out of a black person who voted for Obama because he was black.

I haven't read any further into the thread but this makes sense to me, as in I *get* why you wouldn't necessarily feel like your needs are reflected in white feminists. I don't think I got it until this paragraph. 

[msmerymac]

In college and in my twenties I was much more of a "personal is political" type of feminist. Smug about the more feminist "choices" I've made in my life, and hoping other women could be enlightened and do the same.

I have since realized that focusing on personal choices is 1) privileged, as not everyone has the same choices in life, and not all choices are as easy for everyone, and 2) it can be victim-blaming in a way, since it's easy to tell people if they made the right choices, we'd have equality, or they'd have a better career, or whatever.

It's still true, IMO, that we are all socialized in a patriarchal society, and gender norms can influence our thought process. But looking towards the big picture and the political and society-wide changes will resolve inequality at the personal level in a way that individual choice never will.

[5thofjuly]

Oct 15, 2015 12:20:42 GMT -5 sushi said:

Can I ask what people think of bell hooks? She informed my feminism as much as Gloria steinam

I'm looking at her right now. I have a button with her picture on it on my bulletin board. I draw more often on Patricia Hill Collins' work about intersectionality, but hooks' assertion that we often have an incorrect universal idea of what a "woman's experience" is and a "man's experience" is is crucial to understanding inequality. As an undergrad, I didn't really understand the racial distinctions in women's experiences, but I could see the social class differences she discussed. As I've gotten older (and out of my bubble) her points on race became much more salient.

Well, that and I'll never forget her because some white guy doucher from my grad program decided to change his name to include only lower case letters, too, so now he publishes as the equivalent of "john smith." Dude, you are no bell hooks.

[5thofjuly]

Oct 15, 2015 12:27:16 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

In college and in my twenties I was much more of a "personal is political" type of feminist. Smug about the more feminist "choices" I've made in my life, and hoping other women could be enlightened and do the same.

I have since realized that focusing on personal choices is 1) privileged, as not everyone has the same choices in life, and not all choices are as easy for everyone, and 2) it can be victim-blaming in a way, since it's easy to tell people if they made the right choices, we'd have equality, or they'd have a better career, or whatever.

This was me- sitting in a college gender studies class thinking that feminism was important in other countries, but not really needed in the U.S. Again, me, an able-bodied white woman, sitting in a college class that my parents were paying for having come up through an excellent high school and surrounded by other people like me. 

Undergrad 5thOfJuly was SO naive. Her heart was in the right place, but damn was she dumb for a smart gal. 

[rugbywife]

I have read it all and kind of have an answer, maybe.

I probably consider myself a feminist. However, prior to this thread (and probably the intersectional one, which I read, found overwhelming and never commented on), I had never considered how the feminist movement represents the needs/interests of white feminists. I continue to be reminded of, or perhaps provided with insights on, where my privilege is showing.

[jojoandleo]

Oct 15, 2015 10:05:37 GMT -5 @koko said:

I will add that the desire to be considered equal to men is also not something that I instinctively relate to. Because when white feminists talk about that, they are really talking about "equal to white men", since that's their opposite. And considering black men are apparently too scary to hold the door for folks at an ATM or shop in a Georgetown store, and keep getting shot by cops, I don't really want to be "equal" to black men. I want black men AND women to be equal to white men AND women. 

This has given me more to think about than anything else in this thread.

[sfy]

Oct 15, 2015 12:20:42 GMT -5 sushi said:

Can I ask what people think of bell hooks? She informed my feminism as much as Gloria steinam

I am a fan.

[PatBenatar]

Once again, my eyes have been opened (issues with white feminism)

I don't necessarily identify as a feminist, but I want people to be treated equal and to have choices. So whatever that is.

Also my work just implemented a nice parental leave policy.  The child's primary care giver gets 3 months paid.  Doesn't if it's the mother or father.  The mother still gets short term disability for the birth

[downtoearth]

Sorry, I'm catching up. Because I voted for Obama partly because he was Black and I thought that growing-up and being Black brings a different perspective to presidential leadership that would be a welcomed change, I was wrong? I know a lot of people (in my mostly white area) that were all, "It's time for a Black President." as one of their reasons. Heck, my all white workplace (all male, except me - also) stopped work, got drinks and watched the streaming of his inauguration as a celebration of the monumental moment.

[summer]

Oct 15, 2015 12:23:27 GMT -5 @koko said:

Oct 15, 2015 12:09:12 GMT -5 earlgreyhot said:

What I imagine all women do is fight the fight that is in front of them, without thinking the label or movements they are representing.  

*headtilt*

....I am always thinking of the label I'm representing.  I am highly aware of being a black person in America, because America has made it where I have to be highly aware of being a black person in America.  And because when one black person acts up, you see people shrieking about the need for black communities to *insert here*.  Ethnic minorities are still, by and large in the US, monoliths that are continuously "represented" by the worst behavior of any members of that ethnic group.

If I absolutely have to choose, then I have to choose Black over woman because being Black largely trumps my being seen as female (Ain't I a Woman?, anyone).  I 100% believe White people look at me and see "Black" first in big and bold, and "female" a far off second.  

[iammalcolmx]

Oct 15, 2015 12:27:33 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

First I checked no, then I checked yes, now I am not selecting anything. This board has made me think it is a dirty word. I never felt that way before. Based of the literal definition, yes. But I am starting to think there needs to be a separate term or distinction for being a Black feminist.

Edited to fix word.

Me too, so I clicked no. It seems like there is a certain platform you need to have to qualify but I do think I would be considered a Black feminist.

[rugbywife]

I think a lot of white people felt like electing a black president would 'make everything ok', or in other words, 'stop complaining how hard you have it, black people'.

[iammalcolmx]

Oct 15, 2015 13:27:26 GMT -5 summer said:

Oct 15, 2015 12:23:27 GMT -5 @koko said:

*headtilt*

....I am always thinking of the label I'm representing.  I am highly aware of being a black person in America, because America has made it where I have to be highly aware of being a black person in America.  And because when one black person acts up, you see people shrieking about the need for black communities to *insert here*.  Ethnic minorities are still, by and large in the US, monoliths that are continuously "represented" by the worst behavior of any members of that ethnic group.

If I absolutely have to choose, then I have to choose Black over woman because being Black largely trumps my being seen as female (Ain't I a Woman?, anyone).  I 100% believe White people look at me and see "Black" first in big and bold, and "female" a far off second.  

[downtoearth]

Oct 15, 2015 13:53:23 GMT -5 1234FIF! said:

Oct 15, 2015 13:24:40 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Sorry, I'm catching up. Because I voted for Obama partly because he was Black and I thought that growing-up and being Black brings a different perspective to presidential leadership that would be a welcomed change, I was wrong? I know a lot of people (in my mostly white area) that were all, "It's time for a Black President." as one of their reasons. Heck, my all white workplace (all male, except me - also) stopped work, got drinks and watched the streaming of his inauguration as a celebration of the monumental moment.

A lot of Obama haters insist that the only reason Obama was elected was because of black people and the only reason black people voted for Obama was because he was black. Because we are stupid.

Ah. Then I understand that my answer pretty much comes out naïve and from a white person's perspective. Being white, I can say I'm voting for a black man because he is black without it being deemed "stupid" or uninformed. But a black person saying the same is viewed differently.

Along those same lines, those voting for HRC because she is a woman and they are women, I assumed only that the commonality was one of the connections.

[SJ]

Just because you don't relate with all feminists or just because feminism is not your primary fight or just because you have other stronger more important priorities doesn't mean that you aren't a feminist. Not being connected to a particular branch of feminism or the way that feminism is often portrayed also doesn't mean you aren't a feminist.

I hear some of you saying that you feel let down by the majority movement as it is often or currently expressed by white women in the US in 2015. 

But that wasn't the question.

Because to be clear, you all still agree that men and women have equal capabilities and abilities and should have equal rights and protections. Correct?

[Deleted]

I clicked yes. I hate that it is seen as a dirty word, that really makes me sad. I don't have a lot to add but I have learned a lot from this board and I read almost everything but I often don't comment because I feel like I have nothing to add to the conversation, but it doesn't mean that I'm not taking it all in.

I will say that I schooled my H on BLM because he really didn't understand it. I used the cancer analogy about supporting one type of cancer doesn't mean that you don't support all cancers but that you want to bring awareness to your cause. He gets it now and I owe that to this board.

[jillboston]

I voted for Pres. Obama in part because he is black. But I thought that his experience as a black person would make him a more compassionate, empathetic person, someone who has struggled with discrimination and in his case poverty. I also knew that that experience in his life would cause him to support social programs to help shore up the tattered social safety net. So if that means I voted for him because he would give poor people more stuff then the critics are absolutely right. I'll have the argument all day long that I believe social programs are woefully underfunded (but there's NO MONEY!!) while I do not recall hearing one damn word about there not being enough money for Bush's wars.