But even as a woman at risk of having her uterus ruled by the GOP, the issues Bernie has focused on are by far more important. Our entire way of life depends on a functioning economy and every day we don't reform it, the more probable it is that the US empire will fully crumble sooner rather than later.
I was a Bernie voter. I've been a Bernie supporter. I don't think I'm a Bernie Bro. I'm not Bernie or Trump (??!?!?). I don't know how I'll vote in November.
I am not uninformed, and I don't think I'm particularly stupid. I'm an educator. I think I am most conflicted about the idea that it is privileged to not vote for Clinton because of how much is at stake, and I am considering that most carefully. There's a lot to weigh here. I'm worried about how Clinton will approach Syria and Iran. Isn't it kind of privileged to vote for any candidate who wants to consider drone strikes? How cool is it for me to support a candidate who dances around very lukewarm minimum wage raise to $12, when Afghan and Syrian children may die in an explosion meant for someone else? Obviously, Obama is guilty of this sin as well. Also, maybe ask your buddies on the board of Walmart to raise that minimum wage? Isn't it corrupt as fuck that Walmart can't pay their employees a living wage, so most of those employees end up on EBT and spend that money again at....Walmart? This is like a fucking Capitalist Dystopia!! These are rhetorical questions and ponderings, and there's no easy answer.
Bernie is not my ideal candidate. He is not my bff. He wants to continue drone strikes, too, and I think that's pretty evil. He doesn't have wonderfully concrete plans. I think he initially wanted to change the conversation and pull Clinton left, and then around January he and his campaign decided they really wanted to go all the way.
But I 100% am sick of the fact that all American politics have drifted to the right year after year, and now Democrats are just left of center. I am not left of center. I am a Leftist Socialist, and I'm very serious about that designation. I realize that's not a mainstream ideology, but I'd like to get closer to an FDR style of government involvement. I read a really great article a few weeks ago about how even in the 40s-60s, moderate Republicans supported more of these social programs than today. It's maddening to watch the political party system drift right. A lot of that is corporate overreach, and I know it's something that bothers most of you, too.
I don't think Hillary is evil. I think she's going to be a very capable leader. I just don't think she's taking the country necessarily the places I want it to go. I think she deals with sexism and bullshit constantly, and I hate it, because it's distracting from what actually can be criticized about her. Not to mention, she doesn't deserve that. Also, I would really like to cast a vote for a female president, and I don't feel bad saying that.
Basically everything is terrible. But supporting Bernie isn't unintelligent or unconsidered any more than it is for any other candidate, and I appreciate those of you who have said as much.
The majority of "academics" I know voted for Bernie, so I'm LOLing so hard at the whole "if you're informed" "if you're education" "if you only understood history and politics."
Haven't we just been told over the past 7 years that the President can't do all of this shit on his own? How does Bernie work with Congress to get these things accomplished? This is a very simple question that I can't get answered. Tell me how Congress doesn't just laugh in his face and make his life more miserable than Obama's?
I am actually blown away by how much people here support Hillary. The most focus-group sculpted candidate of our lifetime. It's so confusing.
My heart is Bernie or Bust, but I know what I'll have to do if she's the nominee. I'll hate myself for it, though. I have no idea how she'll govern. Probably center-right except for women's issues. I do not trust a single word that comes out of her mouth.
But even as a woman at risk of having her uterus ruled by the GOP, the issues Bernie has focused on are by far more important. Our entire way of life depends on a functioning economy and every day we don't reform it, the more probable it is that the US empire will fully crumble sooner rather than later.
Bringing down Wall Street is more important to you that women having equal rights?
Haven't we just been told over the past 7 years that the President can't do all of this shit on his own? How does Bernie work with Congress to get these things accomplished? This is a very simple question that I can't get answered. Tell me how Congress doesn't just laugh in his face and make his life more miserable than Obama's?
Well, for one, I think the issue the GOP had with Obama didn't have anything to do with what he was proposing. It had to do with him being black. And I feel pretty comfortable saying shit like that now that the GOP has shown its true colors with their presumptive nominee.
This should not be read as me saying we should elect a white guy so that Congress will work with him. I'm just saying that Reasonable-Obama's difficulties getting things accomplished should not, IMO, in any way be read as an indication that we can't go left of Obama if we want to work across the aisle. The problem wasn't his politics. Look at who he's put forward for SCOTUS. It's about race.
Haven't we just been told over the past 7 years that the President can't do all of this shit on his own? How does Bernie work with Congress to get these things accomplished? This is a very simple question that I can't get answered. Tell me how Congress doesn't just laugh in his face and make his life more miserable than Obama's?
I am actually blown away by how much people here support Hillary. The most focus-group sculpted candidate of our lifetime. It's so confusing.
My heart is Bernie or Bust, but I know what I'll have to do if she's the nominee. I'll hate myself for it, though. I have no idea how she'll govern. Probably center-right except for women's issues. I do not trust a single word that comes out of her mouth.
But even as a woman at risk of having her uterus ruled by the GOP, the issues Bernie has focused on are by far more important. Our entire way of life depends on a functioning economy and every day we don't reform it, the more probable it is that the US empire will fully crumble sooner rather than later.
Well, i am blown away by the hatred and vitriol towards HRC that I see from Bernie supporters, Trump supporters and other GOP supporters. Thank you for telling me that Bernie's issues are more important that reproductive rights though ^o)
Haven't we just been told over the past 7 years that the President can't do all of this shit on his own? How does Bernie work with Congress to get these things accomplished? This is a very simple question that I can't get answered. Tell me how Congress doesn't just laugh in his face and make his life more miserable than Obama's?
Well, for one, I think the issue the GOP had with Obama didn't have anything to do with what he was proposing. It had to do with him being black. And I feel pretty comfortable saying shit like that now that the GOP has shown its true colors with their presumptive nominee.
This should not be read as me saying we should elect a white guy so that Congress will work with him. I'm just saying that Reasonable-Obama's difficulties getting things accomplished should not, IMO, in any way be read as an indication that we can't go left of Obama if we want to work across the aisle. The problem wasn't his politics. Look at who he's put forward for SCOTUS. It's about race.
It's not just the GOP. The Dems aren't going to support him either. A big clue to this is the Super Delegates not supporting him. He's done absolutely nothing to support the down-ballet Dems. As in, the last time I checked to see what he has raised for campaigns other than his, the total was $0.
Haven't we just been told over the past 7 years that the President can't do all of this shit on his own? How does Bernie work with Congress to get these things accomplished? This is a very simple question that I can't get answered. Tell me how Congress doesn't just laugh in his face and make his life more miserable than Obama's?
Well, for one, I think the issue the GOP had with Obama didn't have anything to do with what he was proposing. It had to do with him being black. And I feel pretty comfortable saying shit like that now that the GOP has shown its true colors with their presumptive nominee.
This should not be read as me saying we should elect a white guy so that Congress will work with him. I'm just saying that Reasonable-Obama's difficulties getting things accomplished should not, IMO, in any way be read as an indication that we can't go left of Obama if we want to work across the aisle. The problem wasn't his politics. Look at who he's put forward for SCOTUS. It's about race.
I have no doubt that has something to do with it. The only problem is that we've heard a lot of "socialist!" stuff thrown Obama's way too, so the idea of them working with an actual socialist seems a bit far-fetched without a significant power shift in the House.
I think it's so odd how Bernie is always played off as being so far left of Clinton. They're voting records are so similar, they support really similar platforms and where they do differ he is occasionally to the right of her, such as gun control. I just don't see how his presidency would be this miracle and result in the saving of American and hers would be total shit.
Well, for one, I think the issue the GOP had with Obama didn't have anything to do with what he was proposing. It had to do with him being black. And I feel pretty comfortable saying shit like that now that the GOP has shown its true colors with their presumptive nominee.
This should not be read as me saying we should elect a white guy so that Congress will work with him. I'm just saying that Reasonable-Obama's difficulties getting things accomplished should not, IMO, in any way be read as an indication that we can't go left of Obama if we want to work across the aisle. The problem wasn't his politics. Look at who he's put forward for SCOTUS. It's about race.
It's not just the GOP. The Dems aren't going to support him either. A big clue to this is the Super Delegates not supporting him. He's done absolutely nothing to support the down-ballet Dems. As in, the last time I checked to see what he has raised for campaigns other than his, the total was $0.
And to be fair, why should the Dems support him when HE'S NOT EVEN A DEMOCRAT?
Well, for one, I think the issue the GOP had with Obama didn't have anything to do with what he was proposing. It had to do with him being black. And I feel pretty comfortable saying shit like that now that the GOP has shown its true colors with their presumptive nominee.
This should not be read as me saying we should elect a white guy so that Congress will work with him. I'm just saying that Reasonable-Obama's difficulties getting things accomplished should not, IMO, in any way be read as an indication that we can't go left of Obama if we want to work across the aisle. The problem wasn't his politics. Look at who he's put forward for SCOTUS. It's about race.
I have no doubt that has something to do with it. The only problem is that we've heard a lot of "socialist!" stuff thrown Obama's way too, so the idea of them working with an actual socialist seems a bit far-fetched without a significant power shift in the House.
They weren't calling Obama a Socialist because they actually think he's a socialist. They were calling him that because they wanted to other him. They wanted to call him... another name and at least had the sense to know that they couldn't get away with that. So they called him a socialist in order to evoke the Nazi imagery, paint him as an outsider, a foreigner, a big, bad, scary... um... socialist.
The conversations are entirely distinct. There are reasons why the GOP wouldn't work with Sanders, but none of those reasons are unique to Sanders. I suspect they'll be pretty fucking hard on Hillary as well. The obstruction with Obama was something else entirely.
I think it's so odd how Bernie is always played off as being so far left of Clinton. They're voting records are so similar, they support really similar platforms and where they do differ he is occasionally to the right of her, such as gun control. I just don't see how his presidency would be this miracle and result in the saving of American and hers would be total shit.
And his supporters calling her a Republican is just ridiculous. Whenever I hear something like that, i assume that they haven't been following politics long.
I gotta say too that I'm enormously frustrated that we are hearing absolutely nothing about the upcoming Congressional elections. My frustration exists on a different level then most people around me. Everyone is like "Jobs! Education! Economy! Presidency in Crisis!" and I'm like "Congress motherfuckers!!!"
I have no doubt that has something to do with it. The only problem is that we've heard a lot of "socialist!" stuff thrown Obama's way too, so the idea of them working with an actual socialist seems a bit far-fetched without a significant power shift in the House.
They weren't calling Obama a Socialist because they actually think he's a socialist. They were calling him that because they wanted to other him. They wanted to call him... another name and at least had the sense to know that they couldn't get away with that. So they called him a socialist in order to evoke the Nazi imagery, paint him as an outsider, a foreigner, a big, bad, scary... um... socialist.
The conversations are entirely distinct. There are reasons why the GOP wouldn't work with Sanders, but none of those reasons are unique to Sanders. I suspect they'll be pretty fucking hard on Hillary as well. The obstruction with Obama was something else entirely.
I'm in total agreement that Hillary won't have it any easier.
I think it's so odd how Bernie is always played off as being so far left of Clinton. They're voting records are so similar, they support really similar platforms and where they do differ he is occasionally to the right of her, such as gun control. I just don't see how his presidency would be this miracle and result in the saving of American and hers would be total shit.
And his supporters calling her a Republican is just ridiculous. Whenever I hear something like that, i assume that they haven't been following politics long.
Whenever I hear that bullshit I feel hulk smash levels of rage overtake me.
It's not just the GOP. The Dems aren't going to support him either. A big clue to this is the Super Delegates not supporting him. He's done absolutely nothing to support the down-ballet Dems. As in, the last time I checked to see what he has raised for campaigns other than his, the total was $0.
And to be fair, why should the Dems support him when HE'S NOT EVEN A DEMOCRAT?
Exactly. He's never identified as a Democrat. He only did so to tap into the powers of the establishment, which just cracks me up.
If people hate HRC for playing just inside the lines in regards to the rules, they should hate ol' Bernbern for doing the same thing with this election. He does just enough to stay within the party lines of the DNC so they don't kick him out. AND THEN he turns around and sues them when his hand is caught in the cookie jar. There's no love lost between Bernie and the DNC right now.
I have a few IRL friends who are Berners and also DH likes him more. I don't get into it with anyone. To me, it doesn't matter. HRC is going to get the nom, so there is no reason to convince anyone of anything. Its basically a done deal.
Haven't we just been told over the past 7 years that the President can't do all of this shit on his own? How does Bernie work with Congress to get these things accomplished? This is a very simple question that I can't get answered. Tell me how Congress doesn't just laugh in his face and make his life more miserable than Obama's?
Well, for one, I think the issue the GOP had with Obama didn't have anything to do with what he was proposing. It had to do with him being black. And I feel pretty comfortable saying shit like that now that the GOP has shown its true colors with their presumptive nominee.
This should not be read as me saying we should elect a white guy so that Congress will work with him. I'm just saying that Reasonable-Obama's difficulties getting things accomplished should not, IMO, in any way be read as an indication that we can't go left of Obama if we want to work across the aisle. The problem wasn't his politics. Look at who he's put forward for SCOTUS. It's about race.
They weren't calling Obama a Socialist because they actually think he's a socialist. They were calling him that because they wanted to other him. They wanted to call him... another name and at least had the sense to know that they couldn't get away with that. So they called him a socialist in order to evoke the Nazi imagery, paint him as an outsider, a foreigner, a big, bad, scary... um... socialist.
The conversations are entirely distinct. There are reasons why the GOP wouldn't work with Sanders, but none of those reasons are unique to Sanders. I suspect they'll be pretty fucking hard on Hillary as well. The obstruction with Obama was something else entirely.
I'm in total agreement that Hillary won't have it any easier.
I think it's so odd how Bernie is always played off as being so far left of Clinton. They're voting records are so similar, they support really similar platforms and where they do differ he is occasionally to the right of her, such as gun control. I just don't see how his presidency would be this miracle and result in the saving of American and hers would be total shit.
To the extent they aren't really different, I think it's fair to reverse some of the questions in this very thread. Because I agree that they aren't exactly worlds apart. So, um... what's Hillary's plan for funding universal healthcare and entirely subsidized college education? What is her plan for getting across-aisle agreements on climate change, fracking, and wall street reforms? I see that "HE HAS NO PLAN" language thrown around, but I'm not terribly persuaded by this. I mean, he has a plan that involves tax reform. I can't fault him for not outlining the section by section revisions to the code that he plans. Most of the country has to pay H&R block to fill out a 1040EZ. What kind of specificity are we requiring here, and do we require it from Clinton, as well. I mean, assuming their platforms are actually nearly identical.
But even as a woman at risk of having her uterus ruled by the GOP, the issues Bernie has focused on are by far more important. Our entire way of life depends on a functioning economy and every day we don't reform it, the more probable it is that the US empire will fully crumble sooner rather than later.
What does this mean? Reform the economy how?
I think part of the struggle he has is that the problems that create banking institutions that are too big to fail (and too well lobbied to fail) are complex and don't lend themselves to 60 second answers that the general public can absorb. He's right to stay away from getting into the mechanics because what the solution will look like probably wouldn't turn out how he'd describe it anyway (compare Obama's promises on healthcare to how ACA works). These are not impossible headscratchers, first and foremost, get someone to enforce the rules that exist.
If you want an example, part of the issue is the revolving door between regulator jobs in government and the institutions. I don't know what the exact text of a non-compete here should be, but you cannot go from regulation back into the private sector and then reap the rewards of a system you fixed, or at least allowed to operate dysfunctionally so that you could later profit. Will it be tricky to prevent? Yes, but we can't afford to not try everything possible to limit it.
I think it's so odd how Bernie is always played off as being so far left of Clinton. They're voting records are so similar, they support really similar platforms and where they do differ he is occasionally to the right of her, such as gun control. I just don't see how his presidency would be this miracle and result in the saving of American and hers would be total shit.
To the extent they aren't really different, I think it's fair to reverse some of the questions in this very thread. Because I agree that they aren't exactly worlds apart. So, um... what's Hillary's plan for funding universal healthcare and entirely subsidized college education? What is her plan for getting across-aisle agreements on climate change, fracking, and wall street reforms? I see that "HE HAS NO PLAN" language thrown around, but I'm not terribly persuaded by this. I mean, he has a plan that involves tax reform. I can't fault him for not outlining the section by section revisions to the code that he plans. Most of the country has to pay H&R block to fill out a 1040EZ. What kind of specificity are we requiring here, and do we require it from Clinton, as well. I mean, assuming their platforms are actually nearly identical.
She's actually outlined a fairly solid plan for all of these. To the point that economists aren't sitting around with their heads hanging over their beers going, "WTF shit did I just read?!" They've been able to calculate it down really well. She also has the personal contacts to be able to broker deals, or at least bring people to the table.
Do you know what Bernie's climate change plan is? "We're going to bring down big oil!" Uh, ok? That's it. That's his whole plan.
I think it's so odd how Bernie is always played off as being so far left of Clinton. They're voting records are so similar, they support really similar platforms and where they do differ he is occasionally to the right of her, such as gun control. I just don't see how his presidency would be this miracle and result in the saving of American and hers would be total shit.
To the extent they aren't really different, I think it's fair to reverse some of the questions in this very thread. Because I agree that they aren't exactly worlds apart. So, um... what's Hillary's plan for funding universal healthcare and entirely subsidized college education? What is her plan for getting across-aisle agreements on climate change, fracking, and wall street reforms? I see that "HE HAS NO PLAN" language thrown around, but I'm not terribly persuaded by this. I mean, he has a plan that involves tax reform. I can't fault him for not outlining the section by section revisions to the code that he plans. Most of the country has to pay H&R block to fill out a 1040EZ. What kind of specificity are we requiring here, and do we require it from Clinton, as well. I mean, assuming their platforms are actually nearly identical.
Her website is a start if you're genuinely asking. She has very detailed proposals for those things on her site.
fenton , are you coming back or did you just post that rant to get us fired up on a slow Friday?
I've gotten myself into more demanding jobs, so I can't hang out here all day, but I can return more often to break the Hillary hypnosis infecting this place!
Haven't we just been told over the past 7 years that the President can't do all of this shit on his own? How does Bernie work with Congress to get these things accomplished? This is a very simple question that I can't get answered. Tell me how Congress doesn't just laugh in his face and make his life more miserable than Obama's?
I think ordinarily Hillary would likely have the same problem except I am pretty sure she knows skeletons in people's closet and is not afraid to use them.
I thought the OP was less about whether there are reasons to support Bernie or whether all his supporters are unintelligent simply by supporting him, and more about the content of what people the OP respects are posting on facebook that is causing her to lose respect for them.
I have friends who are Bernie supporters. And I have friends who support Bernie who post stuff that might as well be the same as what the dimwit on my feed who supports Trump posts. It is actual illogical nonsense that might as well be gibberish. I probably have friends who support HRC who post dumb shit too, but I haven't seen it. I do see usuncut articles, totally illogical, I can't math delusions from people I generally find intelligent, and it does make me go...hmmm. That's how I took the OP. It is sort of disconcerting to find out someone you respect believes things that you find ignorant, or intolerable, especially if you have a decent amount of respect for them going into it. And this is not saying supporting Bernie is ignorant or intolerable, but some of the articles I see posted about him on my feed are those things and it makes me wonder where these people's brains are.
In a more general way, I find that seeing what people think about politics on facebook is generally a negative. You can actually find any article that supports whatever nutbar scenario you would like to see, and people then post it with the caption "ALL OF THIS! YES!" Then a little piece of my soul dies, especially if it's someone I generally respect and find intelligent. <---- this is what I thought the OP was about. Not that no one has any valid reason to support Bernie, or that supporting Bernie is unintelligent.
It's not just the GOP. The Dems aren't going to support him either. A big clue to this is the Super Delegates not supporting him. He's done absolutely nothing to support the down-ballet Dems. As in, the last time I checked to see what he has raised for campaigns other than his, the total was $0.
And to be fair, why should the Dems support him when HE'S NOT EVEN A DEMOCRAT?
The entire political spectrum has shifted right, in response to far-right bullying. I don't like where the Democratic party is; I want it to be more progressive. So am I supposed to accept the Democratic party without question? Or if I support liberal ideals, can I (or Bernie) try to change the party?
What is the Democratic party if not a reflection of the people who decide to be in it, for any portion of time? Are you not a Dem if you've never changed affiliation? Is there a rule for how long you have to wear the label before it's legit? Are you more of a Democrat if you're routinely elected as a D in rural areas as pro-union but oppose LGBT rights, women's rights, environmental protection, etc?