Intelligent Bernie Supporters

[monkey]

Hello! I am a massive lurker, but this board has pretty much changed my life. I definitely wouldn't be the same without it.

My problem stems from a couple of my friends. We used to be really close politically (democrat-leaning), and I still admire my friends for their professions (they are involved in education/social advocacy professions). I love them and respect them immensely. However, it's dawning on me that they are both Bernie Bros (one male, one female). It's really upsetting to me.

I went to law school with one of them, and the other really should have gone to law school. They're both maybe in their early 40s? They are SO SMART and I admire them SO MUCH. But they're so far gone for Bernie. The things they post on Facebook just don't make any logical sense, but they are so passionate. I have another friend who is refusing to vote for superdelagates in our state (senators, governors, etc.) because they just don't "see" the progressive vision Bernie has. 

What the hell! What am I missing?

I don't know what I'm looking for. I know that I've seen similar sentiments here, so I guess I wanted to post because I just can't wrap my head around it. This election cycle has seriously changed the way I feel about people that I'm close to, and it is making me crazy! I don't know how to feel about everything. The posts they've been posting and their comments indicating that we just don't understand how special and important Bernie is are driving me nuts.

If anyone has any insight I would appreciate it. Or if you just want to unload on Bernie Bros, I'm cool with that too. 

Thanks for your time!

[imobviouslystaying]

Do you think only dumb people support Bernie/Trump/any other questionable candidate?

[One Girl In All The World]

I have nothing but solidarity. Ironically, most of the Bernie supporters I know are educators. The mind, it boggles.

I have one who is willing to concede some weaknesses, but also loathes HRC for reasons that as far as I can tell, are out of the GOP echo chamber that has slandered her for the last few decades. The others communicate via memes that have little place in reality.

[One Girl In All The World]

May 5, 2016 20:54:14 GMT -5 imobviouslystaying said:

Do you think only dumb people support Bernie/Trump/any other questionable candidate?

So, I'm not trying to speak for the OP, but what gets me, personally, with people who support really any of the above is the extreme lack of critical thinking. From my SIL and her husband who are smart, educated, experienced business people to the folks on my FB newsfeed who are both educated and educators, that seems to be the common thread.

[secretlyevil]

This board is BEC over Bernie dont cha know?

In all seriousness, Bernie speaks to idealism. Free college for all! His rhetoric speaks to the liberal. Hell, I like so many of his ideas. but they pull at my uber liberal heart strings. However, he is unyielding and uncompromising. The extremes are unrealistic and down right scary.

[imobviouslystaying]

I think the thing to remember is that smart and educated do not necessarily mean well versed in every topic.

We all know more about what interests us than what doesn't and we know more about the things we were educated in and/or experienced ourselves that general topics or even specific topics outside of that.

So it's quite possible, highly possible that one is smart and well educated and yet doesn't see or agree that some of Bernie's policies are unobtainable.

And still others want to know exactly why the fuck shouldn't they be obtainable or at least as obtainable as some other policies that other candidates champion and think it worthwhile to side with a candidate who places that topic at a higher priority, regardless of how unlikely it is.

So to that end, no, I don't think being smart/educated is incompatible with being a Bernie supporter, not at all. After all, I think I'm right about Bernie's handful of policies. But you know what? Plenty of presidents have accomplished things a shitton of people dismissed out of hand when they were in the election cycle stage.

You can have educated and intelligent arguments on why a policy will likely fail and yet that policy ends up succeeding or at least not causing the catastrophe that was predicted.

[underwaterrhymes]

In some ways I think Bernie is really exciting, particularly to people who haven't been involved in the political process before. His ideas seem innovative and fresh (even though they're not and besides which they're not achievable either) and he frames them in a way that motivates people. People like feeling like they're part of a movement. Bernie gets this.

And admittedly, aside from the gun issue, I align with him more closely than any other candidate.

But I'm With Her. And this is because what a lot of the Bernie Bros don't fully grasp is the political process (e.g. caucuses and super delegates) as well as the limitations to what someone can accomplish with an oppositional Congress. (Not to mention the increase in taxes he proposes would be absolutely unmanageable for most people even with the programs he proposes.)

I absolutely understand getting amped about a candidate because that was me in 2008 with Obama. But Bernie is not the first candidate to get people hot and bothered and that's probably what irritates me most about the Bernie Bros. I was shouting Yes We Can!! at the TV and I waited nearly seven hours in Florida to vote for Obama in 2008. I didn't have to wait as long in 2012, but I would have. And if he could get a third term, I would do it again this year.

So I get it. But sit the hell down with the nonsense that Bernie (and his supporters) are some sort of goddamn pioneers. Obama has pushed for so much social change and while he's accomplished a lot, he's also been stymied by the institutional bigotry that plagues our country. That reality isn't going away.

[josieposy]

*Buzzer!* Nope. You gotta follow the rules.

First, name this pastry:

[imobviouslystaying]

Also, educated people are more likely to be spending a huge chunk of their income on paying off student loans and probably have been doing so for the last ten years. They aren't earning enough to cover those payments and live the minimum lifestyle that their education promised.

So I'm not sure I am mad necessarily or think people are dumb for flocking to a promise that has meaning for them, and would improve their lives, their children's lives, and the lives of those they tend to choose to interact with on a regular basis.

The disagreement isn't that those aren't good priorities but whether they can be accomplished and just what percentage of the population would benefit, and what other things are a priority.

[One Girl In All The World]

May 5, 2016 21:11:32 GMT -5 josieposy said:

*Buzzer!* Nope. You gotta follow the rules.

First, name this pastry:

You know, I think I slid in without ever taking this quiz, and it bothers me because as many times as it comes up I've never retained the right answer. 

[So_Fetch]

I have a facebook friend that I interact with often and we seem to be very similar in our beliefs, etc. She is pro Bernie. I respect her and so I asked her why she preferred Bernie and she gave me an honest answer. Basically he is consistent. She also said that she stops following political sites and the news coverage of the elections...so she hasn't seen all the mud slinging and whatnot. I don't agree with not staying informed but I appreciated that she answered so honestly.

[secretlyevil]

May 5, 2016 21:19:35 GMT -5 One Girl In All The World said:

May 5, 2016 21:11:32 GMT -5 josieposy said:

*Buzzer!* Nope. You gotta follow the rules.

First, name this pastry:

You know, I think I slid in without ever taking this quiz, and it bothers me because as many times as it comes up I've never retained the right answer. 

Sugar, refined processed sugar.

Seriously, there is no correct answer.

[isabel]

May 5, 2016 21:08:41 GMT -5 imobviouslystaying said:

I think the thing to remember is that smart and educated do not necessarily mean well versed in every topic.

We all know more about what interests us than what doesn't and we know more about the things we were educated in and/or experienced ourselves that general topics or even specific topics outside of that.

So it's quite possible, highly possible that one is smart and well educated and yet doesn't see or agree that some of Bernie's policies are unobtainable.

You hit the nail on the head with this. I have to frequently remind myself that those around me are probably not as into politics as I am and don't know all the information I do. I wish voters were more informed, but it just isn't the case.

Bernie (and Trump) is a sound bite candidate. I have to think that many who support him hear his plans ("Free college! Free healthcare! No more Wall Street!") and think, "hey, I can get behind that!" It goes back to another poster's point that not everyone thinks super critically about politics.

[cookiemdough]

Eh not every Bernie supporter is a BernieBro. His message would resonate with me if I felt like he had a clear path to pursue it or a history of gaining bipartisan support for his platforms. So I like what he says (although not the way he says it) but I just don't believe he has the means to carry it through. Although I always step back and think many said the same about Obama's hope and change platform so there is that. Bernie to me is not as likable though but his message and what he voices as concerns for many people is not ridiculously out there. I wouldn't let the rhetoric on this board color your opinions of all people who support Bernie.

[cookiemdough]

May 5, 2016 21:31:00 GMT -5 isabel said:

May 5, 2016 21:08:41 GMT -5 imobviouslystaying said:

I think the thing to remember is that smart and educated do not necessarily mean well versed in every topic.

We all know more about what interests us than what doesn't and we know more about the things we were educated in and/or experienced ourselves that general topics or even specific topics outside of that.

So it's quite possible, highly possible that one is smart and well educated and yet doesn't see or agree that some of Bernie's policies are unobtainable.

You hit the nail on the head with this. I have to frequently remind myself that those around me are probably not as into politics as I am and don't know all the information I do. I wish voters were more informed, but it just isn't the case.

Bernie (and Trump) is a sound bite candidate. I have to think that many who support him hear his plans ("Free college! Free healthcare! No more Wall Street!") and think, "hey, I can get behind that!" It goes back to another poster's point that not everyone thinks super critically about politics.

I am pretty into politics and the only reason HRC is getting my vote is because I view her as more politically savvy to get things done. I don't necessarily find her more likable or her platform more appealing.

[FloFTW]

May 5, 2016 21:27:16 GMT -5 secretlyevil said:

May 5, 2016 21:19:35 GMT -5 One Girl In All The World said:

You know, I think I slid in without ever taking this quiz, and it bothers me because as many times as it comes up I've never retained the right answer. 

Sugar, refined processed sugar.

Seriously, there is no correct answer.

There is a correct answer for THAT photo.

[lexus]

I like to think that I'm intelligent and I'm a well-educated educator. I've seen hundreds of students walk out my classroom doors with all the promise and potential in the world and our society has told them if they want to "make something of themselves" they need a college education. I work in a large, urban school district and while some of my students each year have parents who can help them pay for college, many do not. I've had students sit in my room and cry after they receive a financial aid package that is no where near enough to cover their anticipated expenses. These kids are watching their futures and everything they have worked their asses off for go down the drain. I don't think Bernie will magically get my students free college but it is time for the pendulum to swing back towards the middle. Basically, Bernie talks about the issues that matter to me as a parent and as an educator. Issues that other candidates aren't talking about. If that makes me an idiot, so be it.

[isabel]

May 5, 2016 21:55:11 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

May 5, 2016 21:31:00 GMT -5 isabel said:

You hit the nail on the head with this. I have to frequently remind myself that those around me are probably not as into politics as I am and don't know all the information I do. I wish voters were more informed, but it just isn't the case.

Bernie (and Trump) is a sound bite candidate. I have to think that many who support him hear his plans ("Free college! Free healthcare! No more Wall Street!") and think, "hey, I can get behind that!" It goes back to another poster's point that not everyone thinks super critically about politics.

I am pretty into politics and the only reason HRC is getting my vote is because I view her as more politically savvy to get things done. I don't necessarily find her more likable or her platform more appealing.

That's exactly the point. If you were uninformed, you might find Bernie to be a likable guy and choose him. You are informed and understand that she is smarter and more capable. People who choose not to inform themselves or think critically may not make the same choice.

[MrsAxilla]

May 5, 2016 21:19:35 GMT -5 One Girl In All The World said:

May 5, 2016 21:11:32 GMT -5 josieposy said:

*Buzzer!* Nope. You gotta follow the rules.

First, name this pastry:

You know, I think I slid in without ever taking this quiz, and it bothers me because as many times as it comes up I've never retained the right answer. 

There isn't one!  It's a trick question.

[lexus]

May 5, 2016 22:09:25 GMT -5 isabel said:

May 5, 2016 21:55:11 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

I am pretty into politics and the only reason HRC is getting my vote is because I view her as more politically savvy to get things done. I don't necessarily find her more likable or her platform more appealing.

That's exactly the point. If you were uninformed, you might find Bernie to be a likable guy and choose him. You are informed and understand that she is smarter and more capable. People who choose not to inform themselves or think critically may not make the same choice.

Just because I don't agree with you about Bernie being more capable or as smart as Hillary doesn't mean I don't think critically about the issues, it means we have used different criteria to define those things.

[One Girl In All The World]

May 5, 2016 22:13:02 GMT -5 lexus said:

May 5, 2016 22:09:25 GMT -5 isabel said:

That's exactly the point. If you were uninformed, you might find Bernie to be a likable guy and choose him. You are informed and understand that she is smarter and more capable. People who choose not to inform themselves or think critically may not make the same choice.

Just because I don't agree with you about Bernie being more capable or as smart as Hillary doesn't mean I don't think critically about the issues, it means we have used different criteria to define those things.

But how is Bernie more capable? What is the criteria? How would he accomplish his goals? This is where it all falls flat to me, because there doesn't seem to be an answer. And I say that honestly, not trying to be snarky.

[cookiemdough]

May 5, 2016 22:09:25 GMT -5 isabel said:

May 5, 2016 21:55:11 GMT -5 cookiemdough said:

I am pretty into politics and the only reason HRC is getting my vote is because I view her as more politically savvy to get things done. I don't necessarily find her more likable or her platform more appealing.

That's exactly the point. If you were uninformed, you might find Bernie to be a likable guy and choose him. You are informed and understand that she is smarter and more capable. People who choose not to inform themselves or think critically may not make the same choice.

Yeah, that is not what I said.

[pixy0stix]

May 5, 2016 22:12:15 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

May 5, 2016 21:19:35 GMT -5 One Girl In All The World said:

You know, I think I slid in without ever taking this quiz, and it bothers me because as many times as it comes up I've never retained the right answer. 

There isn't one!  It's a trick question.

You guys, this is obviously an eclair. It's the OTHER pastry that people get wrong.

[lexus]

May 5, 2016 22:21:34 GMT -5 One Girl In All The World said:

May 5, 2016 22:13:02 GMT -5 lexus said:

Just because I don't agree with you about Bernie being more capable or as smart as Hillary doesn't mean I don't think critically about the issues, it means we have used different criteria to define those things.

But how is Bernie more capable? What is the criteria? How would he accomplish his goals? This is where it all falls flat to me, because there doesn't seem to be an answer. And I say that honestly, not trying to be snarky.

I'm not convinced that he will find the perfect solution for his goals but I think more attention and progress in those areas is more important than ignoring the issues or maintaining the status quo. In addition, I have issues with how Hillary has handled her many screw ups. Often she reacts like an entitled teenager who refuses to see that she messed up instead of acknowledging her missteps and moving forward. If it comes down to it, I would choose her over Trump in a heart beat but I can't find anything about her that makes me think she is more capable than Bernie and a well-selected VP to supplement him in areas where his experience is lacking.

[MrsAxilla]

May 5, 2016 22:39:21 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

May 5, 2016 22:12:15 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

There isn't one!  It's a trick question.

You guys, this is obviously an eclair. It's the OTHER pastry that people get wrong.

HOW CAN YOU TELL??

[josieposy]

Meanwhile, the OP is kicking back and eating a Long John.

[FloFTW]

May 5, 2016 22:50:36 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

May 5, 2016 22:39:21 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

You guys, this is obviously an eclair. It's the OTHER pastry that people get wrong.

HOW CAN YOU TELL??

If you even have to ask...

[elleblue]

May 5, 2016 22:50:36 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

May 5, 2016 22:39:21 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

You guys, this is obviously an eclair. It's the OTHER pastry that people get wrong.

HOW CAN YOU TELL??

The choux dough. It looks different from doughnut dough. 

[MrsAxilla]

May 5, 2016 22:59:23 GMT -5 elleblue said:

May 5, 2016 22:50:36 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

HOW CAN YOU TELL??

The choux dough. It looks different from doughnut dough. 

Whatever.  Some of us need glasses, OKAY??

[ttt]

I think it's quite possible to be very intelligent and educated but not understand really how the political system in this country works on a day to day basis.

I think many of Bernie's ideas are very appealing, and I agree with him on most issues. I almost certainly would have been a big supporter say, 10 or 15 years ago. But I've spent a lot of time in the past 10-15 years reading about, following, studying, experiencing the political process and how things work in DC, and it's because of that that I can't support Bernie. It's what leads me to believe that his ideas are great but unrealistic and politically untenable. If I didn't have that experience in my life, I would likely feel differently.