I don't know. I think they could have been more specific. Even "Do not enter water" or "danger" or something. But again, that might hurt Disney's bottom line. No swimming means no swimming. Looking at pictures of the "beach" only further enrages me.
It might have said something like that, I can't remember now. I just remember thinking that the girls should not go in the water at all. That was my impression. Same thing at the Yacht and Beach Club. Though my girls might not have been quite as far into the water as this little boy, they were pretty close looking for shells.
This is just a terrible, terrible tragedy. I am sure there will be major changes made, whether it is a fence at the shore line or getting rid of the beach area completely, I don't know, but I am sure something will happen.
I mean they are already so close to no beach area at the Wilderness Lodge because of those cabins and the beach area is half of what it once was at The Poly ( due to bungalows)
I figured ( before this tragedy) the beach areas were going away in order to continue the trend of premium events ( aka dessert parties etc) and taking away " free" forms of entertainment around the parks.
I think this will just make the removal of the beaches happen much faster.
I have read ( before this) that the no swimming signs were put up about 20 years ago due to the amoeba in the water ( brain eating). I know that's why River Country was closed.
I have heard that LARGE gators being that close to the property is very rare, and therefore not a concern for Disney. I believe only one other gator attack has ever happened on property and it was at Ft Wilderness in 1986 ( the kid survived)
I always thought that the movies and fire pits and torches at the Poly would scare away the gators ( noise, lights,lots of people) .
Does anyone remember that article that was posted awhile ago about Nile Crocodiles being released and mating with Gators in Florida? I wonder if that has to due with the uptick in attacks. Am I crazy or was this a thing?
I don't think Disney would have spent $$$$$ building those overwater bungalows at The Poly & the beach side cabins at Wilderness Lodge ( not yet opened) if they had thought this would ever happen.
We stayed at the Wilderness Lodge this past September and wondered about the swimming in the lake, and whether it was ever allowed. We also wondered what the abandoned water park used to be. We did some "research" a la Google and also read about swimming being allowed until fairly recently (there were even pictures of people in the lake) and the brain eating amoeba.
I am heartbroken for that family, and I hope their son is found soon.
I have pictures of littlesavestheday in a Minnie Mouse bathing suit swimming at the beach at Ft Wilderness. I think I was 5, soooo 1986ish.
I just read an NPR article that said they've already found and euthanized 4 alligators in that lake since this happened (no evidence of the child still). It also said that Disney regularly searches the lakes for alligators and euthanizes them.
I'm on team Disney should have more specific signage.
I feel terrible for that poor kid and his parents.
Yes, so Disney knew there were alligators in those waters. They already found 4 since this morning FFS. The signs should have read "DANGER: alligators may be present in water, stay XXX feet away from the shore at all times" with a cord fence. While rare, one accident is too many.
I think Disney is at fault as much as the zoo was at fault. How long and no incidents in both cases? When we know better, we can do better. A 3 yo can scale a 3 foot wall and army crawl through 4 feet of bushes in under 30 seconds? Time to fix the barriers. A small child is grabbed by an alligator at the water's edge in a place that is assumed to be safe with no actual alligator/wildlife warning signs? Time to update you signage and make sure when people check into your resort that they know the risk of being by the water.
And I seriously can't shake this nauseated feeling each time I read a new update to this. DS is 2.5 and I probably wouldn't have let him in the water, but we definitely would have been close enough for a gator to lunge.
And not Monday morning quarterbacking, but you bet your ass I would have tried to stop the alligator. It wouldn't have worked and I know that, but my first instinct would be to protect my kid like his dad did (from the last report I had read.)
I'm just sick from this.
I like the idea of a rock barrier so people can still sit on a lounge chair but cannot easily access the water.
We stayed at beach club in August and the night we decided to relax and stay at the resort they were showing frozen on the beach and you could see the Hollywood studios fireworks from there as well. Both my 2 yo and my 6 yo were walking along the "shore" with my mom. I don't remember seeing signs not to swim, though they may have been there. I don't consider that swimming though. The beach was crowded and I remember a lot of people being close to or wading in the water. It never crossed my mind that gators were a risk. I don't know why.
I mean I know Florida is notorious for gators. I also know they are notorious for lots of large scary bugs and we didnt see any of those at Disney either. I assumed Disney just had that stuff handled. I didn't know anything about dusk and gators either. I don't think the parents are at fault at all. I am starting to think Disney may have been though.
We stayed at beach club in August and the night we decided to relax and stay at the resort they were showing frozen on the beach and you could see the Hollywood studios fireworks from there as well. Both my 2 yo and my 6 yo were walking along the "shore" with my mom. I don't remember seeing signs not to swim, though they may have been there. I don't consider that swimming though. The beach was crowded and I remember a lot of people being close to or wading in the water. It never crossed my mind that gators were a risk. I don't know why.
I mean I know Florida is notorious for gators. I also know they are notorious for lots of large scary bugs and we didnt see any of those at Disney either. I assumed Disney just had that stuff handled. I didn't know anything about dusk and gators either. I don't think the parents are at fault at all. I am starting to think Disney may have been though.
Why does ANYONE have to be at fault here? Even with alligators being all over FL, this is not a common occurrence. That is a huge lake! It's not crazy to think that Disney really didn't think this was an actual risk. As a Floridian, we swim and do water sports in these bodies of water all of the time (just like people do in the ocean with sharks) and this almost never happens. It is most certainly not the parents fault, but why does this mean that it must be Disney's fault? Can it not just be a tragic accident?
ETA: Now that it's happened they obviously need to learn from it, but I think the "OMG, they should have known better" for both the parents AND Disney, is a bit of bullshit.
We stayed at beach club in August and the night we decided to relax and stay at the resort they were showing frozen on the beach and you could see the Hollywood studios fireworks from there as well. Both my 2 yo and my 6 yo were walking along the "shore" with my mom. I don't remember seeing signs not to swim, though they may have been there. I don't consider that swimming though. The beach was crowded and I remember a lot of people being close to or wading in the water. It never crossed my mind that gators were a risk. I don't know why.
I mean I know Florida is notorious for gators. I also know they are notorious for lots of large scary bugs and we didnt see any of those at Disney either. I assumed Disney just had that stuff handled. I didn't know anything about dusk and gators either. I don't think the parents are at fault at all. I am starting to think Disney may have been though.
Why does ANYONE have to be at fault here? Even with alligators being all over FL, this is not a common occurrence. That is a huge lake! It's not crazy to think that Disney really didn't think this was an actual risk. As a Floridian, we swim and do water sports in these bodies of water all of the time (just like people do in the ocean with sharks) and this almost never happens. It is most certainly not the parents fault, but why does this mean that it must be Disney's fault? Can it not just be a tragic accident?
Because Disney admitted they search for alligators in their bodies of water regularly and they euthanize the gators they find. They already found 4 gators in the body of water where the accident happened. You don't put a "no swimming" sign if you know your waters have gators. You put a danger sign and explain it is very possible to find gators in the water, even though it's Disney.
We stayed at beach club in August and the night we decided to relax and stay at the resort they were showing frozen on the beach and you could see the Hollywood studios fireworks from there as well. Both my 2 yo and my 6 yo were walking along the "shore" with my mom. I don't remember seeing signs not to swim, though they may have been there. I don't consider that swimming though. The beach was crowded and I remember a lot of people being close to or wading in the water. It never crossed my mind that gators were a risk. I don't know why.
I mean I know Florida is notorious for gators. I also know they are notorious for lots of large scary bugs and we didnt see any of those at Disney either. I assumed Disney just had that stuff handled. I didn't know anything about dusk and gators either. I don't think the parents are at fault at all. I am starting to think Disney may have been though.
Why does ANYONE have to be at fault here? Even with alligators being all over FL, this is not a common occurrence. That is a huge lake! It's not crazy to think that Disney really didn't think this was an actual risk. As a Floridian, we swim and do water sports in these bodies of water all of the time (just like people do in the ocean with sharks) and this almost never happens. It is most certainly not the parents fault, but why does this mean that it must be Disney's fault? Can it not just be a tragic accident?
ETA: Now that it's happened they obviously need to learn from it, but I think the "OMG, they should have known better" for both the parents AND Disney, is a bit of bullshit.
Because they knew about the risk, however small and didn't ensure their guests did as well. Because they have family activities set up waterside at apparently dangerous times and don't make sure parents are truly aware of the risk. Do you think my kids would have been within 20 feet of that water, never mind walking at the edge of it, had I known about the small but very real risk? Fuck no. You can't assume everyone understands the dangers of gators and that they are more dangerous at night.
I just can't imagine what this family is going through. I've thought about it all day. My son is 3 and he's a runner and he often doesn't listen. I am on his ass. Always. I've been called uptight by family and friends, but he could take off and be gone in a second. First the gorilla incident and now this, it seriously chills me to the bone that all it takes is a moment of letting your guard down. This could easily be me, or anyone and it's terrifying.
I guess I feel like places that cater to tourists who will not automatically think "gators could be anywhere you see water" have an extra responsibility to make sure their clientele are made aware of the risks. So if they do regular checks for them, the signs should be up. With notes in the "things to know" hotel books and maybe something mentioned at check in.
The place I stayed at in Oklahoma had a section in its in room book titled "tornados- what to do/know"
Our hotel in Maui had a section on sharks. And at check in told us there was an area on a near by beach marked as do not swim because of powerful currents.
My area warns of bears, moose and what to do if you encounter one and how to avoid. At any place that has tourist info, including hotels.
It just seems like good business when you are dealing with a large population of people who likely aren't familiar with your area.
Why does ANYONE have to be at fault here? Even with alligators being all over FL, this is not a common occurrence. That is a huge lake! It's not crazy to think that Disney really didn't think this was an actual risk. As a Floridian, we swim and do water sports in these bodies of water all of the time (just like people do in the ocean with sharks) and this almost never happens. It is most certainly not the parents fault, but why does this mean that it must be Disney's fault? Can it not just be a tragic accident?
Because Disney admitted they search for alligators in their bodies of water regularly and they euthanize the gators they find. They already found 4 gators in the body of water where the accident happened. You don't put a "no swimming" sign if you know your waters have gators. You put a danger sign and explain it is very possible to find gators in the water, even though it's Disney.
Wait, I thought the gators were a protected species? Can they do that?
I'm glad they found the body if only so those parents can have closure. I'm surprised they found him though, I assumed that the gator had eaten him since it was hunting time. Poor, poor family.
Post by peachykate on Jun 15, 2016 15:34:51 GMT -5
I guess I don't get the need for extra explanation. It says No Swimming, what more do you need to know. If you are super curious go ask someone instead of just saying fuck it and going in the water. A gator might get you, a copperhead might bite you, you may get a deadly brain eating amoebae, or swallow a mouthful of motor oil from a leaking boat. There is more than one danger in that water.
It's the everglades, he was in a foot of water. It was a terrible tragedy but I don't see the need to blame Disney.
I'm fascinated that No Swimming means wade in the water to some people. Absolutely fascinated.
but I can see it completely. someone on my facebook made the point of people at the Jersey Shore, no swimming between life guard stands, but everyone walks in the water, kids get buckets to fill up etc, it literally means no SWIMMING, it doesn't mean stay out of the water 100%
I guess I feel like places that cater to tourists who will not automatically think "gators could be anywhere you see water" have an extra responsibility to make sure their clientele are made aware of the risks. So if they do regular checks for them, the signs should be up. With notes in the "things to know" hotel books and maybe something mentioned at check in.
The place I stayed at in Oklahoma had a section in its in room book titled "tornados- what to do/know"
Our hotel in Maui had a section on sharks. And at check in told us there was an area on a near by beach marked as do not swim because of powerful currents.
My area warns of bears, moose and what to do if you encounter one and how to avoid. At any place that has tourist info, including hotels.
It just seems like good business when you are dealing with a large population of people who likely aren't familiar with your area.
Especially since Disney caters to many foreign tourists. How many foreigners know that FL is known for gators and they hunt at dusk?
Because Disney admitted they search for alligators in their bodies of water regularly and they euthanize the gators they find. They already found 4 gators in the body of water where the accident happened. You don't put a "no swimming" sign if you know your waters have gators. You put a danger sign and explain it is very possible to find gators in the water, even though it's Disney.
Wait, I thought the gators were a protected species? Can they do that?
They said on CNN that the alligator was endangered 50 years ago, but now there are 1.3 million in FL alone.
I guess I don't get the need for extra explanation. It says No Swimming, what more do you need to know. If you are super curious go ask someone instead of just saying fuck it and going in the water. A gator might get you, a copperhead might bite you, you may get a deadly brain eating amoebae, or swallow a mouthful of motor oil from a leaking boat. There is more than one danger in that water.
It's the everglades, he was in a foot of water. It was a terrible tragedy but I don't see the need to blame Disney.
You don't see the need for extra explanation? A two year old just died. Other families let their children near and in the water. Many people here (me included) would have let their children near that water, given their own interpretation and non-gator experience.
There's your need. Decry how stupid (or "fascinating") you think that is all you want, but it's weird to keep acting baffled by the sign issue.
I'm fascinated that No Swimming means wade in the water to some people. Absolutely fascinated.
but I can see it completely. someone on my facebook made the point of people at the Jersey Shore, no swimming between life guard stands, but everyone walks in the water, kids get buckets to fill up etc, it literally means no SWIMMING, it doesn't mean stay out of the water 100%
Yeah, maybe I'm less intelligent than I've been giving myself credit for all these years, and I realize this is truly beside the point, but I've always taken no swimming to mean... no swimming. Anywhere I've been that prohibits wading as well has been marked as such (though I don't expect signs like this to be posted in addition to no swimming signs, mainly since I don't swim in anything but pools). I can't say going forward that I'll start assuming I'm swimming if I stick my toes in the ocean.
The kid could have been one foot away from the water, obeying the sign and still could have been dragged in by an alligator. If it said "no swimming" with even a picture of an alligator, I wouldn't be within 50 feet of the water. I absolutely think signage matters.
The kid could have been one foot away from the water, obeying the sign and still could have been dragged in by an alligator. If it said "no swimming" with even a picture of an alligator, I wouldn't be within 50 feet of the water. I absolutely think signage matters.
This is a really good point. I'm terrified of sharks (thanks to my father letting me watch Jaws when I was FOUR) so I don't go in the ocean at all, but a shark is not likely to belly all the way up onto the sand, snag me, and then flip around and drag me in. Gators and crocs will snatch a deer off of a riverbank, so there should absolutely be signage saying "HEY YO WE HAVE ACTUAL MANEATING THINGS IN THIS WATER, PROBABLY, SO JUST STAY A GOOD TEN TO TWENTY FEET BACK. LOVE MICKEY"
Again, I know very little about alligators because I don't have too. So with even more thought, maybe if I was at a park in Florida is be cautious/scared of a near by pond. No way would I sit by it at night. Although at night my fear would be more getting mugged than wild animal attacks (hi! City girl!)
At a resort, especially a Disney resort on something that looks like a tropical beach? I wouldn't have thought twice about being near that water or standing up to my ankles. I now get that sounds dumb to Florida people, but I really would have felt safe. If for no other reason than if there was a danger - like an alligator attack - a major corporation would have warned me. Absence of warnings that clearly state "alligator" and I'd think they know there's no chance of one in their man made and maintained waters.
As for "no swimming", where I am that means no diving in, you might hit a rock, the ground isn't even, maybe it has weeds you can get tangled in. If there was dangerous bacteria it would say "danger! do not enter/drink/touch the water" or "health risk, toxins present in water, do not enter the water"
peachykate, no swimming to me means "don't put your swim suit on and then breast stroke in this water". I would have totally put my feet in the water, ankle deep, which was the case for this little boy I believe. He wasn't in a foot of water. He was fully dressed.
And since I feel sick for those parents over this I'll continue on to say the eye rolling and the condescending posts about signage are almost as infuriating as the comments all over the internet blaming the parents, but here I am talking about the stupid signs anyway so I guess I'm part of the problem.
I am glad they found his body so the parents can have that closure, but god, what a devastating, horrific accident from start to finish.
And since I feel sick for those parents over this I'll continue on to say the eye rolling and the condescending posts about signage are almost as infuriating as the comments all over the internet blaming the parents, but here I am talking about the stupid signs anyway so I guess I'm part of the problem.
I am glad they found his body so the parents can have that closure, but god, what a devastating, horrific accident from start to finish.
I just wish there had been clear danger signs because it's possible that the parents would have taken the kids to a different spot to watch the show and then get ice cream, or something.