And since I feel sick for those parents over this I'll continue on to say the eye rolling and the condescending posts about signage are almost as infuriating as the comments all over the internet blaming the parents, but here I am talking about the stupid signs anyway so I guess I'm part of the problem.
I am glad they found his body so the parents can have that closure, but god, what a devastating, horrific accident from start to finish.
I just wish there had been clear danger signs because it's possible that the parents would have taken the kids to a different spot to watch the show and then get ice cream, or something.
I agree with you that going forward some clarity in their signs is necessary and can't hurt. I was really referring to all of the "no swimming means no swimming duh" and "what good will more signs do?" I've been seeing across the boards.
The kid could have been one foot away from the water, obeying the sign and still could have been dragged in by an alligator. If it said "no swimming" with even a picture of an alligator, I wouldn't be within 50 feet of the water. I absolutely think signage matters.
Further than that, our Alabama location gets gators IN THEIR FREAKING PARKING LOT from time to time. The parking lot is not near to the water. They announced the last time this happened at a weekly management call, and at my location we are all either a) Yankees or b) Canadians. We were all NOPE!
Gators are scary as hell. I am so heartbroken for that family.
Disney does not euthanize the gators, they relocate them once they reach a certain size. However, the five gators that were pulled from the water will be euthanized and their stomachs will be examined to determine which one was "responsible". I am so heartbroken for this family.
And besides the sign.... maybe setting up family activities at night on the beaches isn't the best plan. I am really fucking annoyed. And no I don't consider myself to be an idiot, and i am an obnoxious rule follower. But the fact that a billion dollar company does this at all of their resorts every night leads me to believe there isn't a risk here. Why would they put little kids by the shore at night if it wasn't safe? Of course I was pulled into my Disney = safe delusion even further. These pictures are infuriating in this context.
Yes, there are signs that say 'no swimming', but right now all that really matters is that a poor little boy and his heartbroken family.
Pretty sure the first thing I said was that it was a horrible tragedy.
I was talking about who is liable and clearly been corrected on what No Swimming means. The reports do say that he was in a foot of water.Aloe Vera ,
I am not implying that you don't think it's a horrible tragedy. I just don't think that because there was a sign that said no swimming that the parents are at fault. It's a tragedy.
I've taken my kids to WDW many times. We went in May. We stayed at the Poly, which has a beach area. I was walking with my 3 kids on the beach area and my oldest DD asked if she could put her feet in the water. I saw the signs that said "no swimming" but what really held me back from allowing her to stick her feet in the water was that I didn't want her feet all wet and covered in sand. I didn't think, oh, there might be alligators. Call me naïve, but it just didn't cross my mind. I thought they would be safe because, you know, this big, expensive resort was going to keep my kids safe.
I'm really surprised at the Disney hate here. Alligator attacks on people are RARE. CNN had some chart that in the past 30 years 20 people have been killed by a gator in the US and like 800 have been killed by cows. Gators rarely attack people. They rarely go to places where there are a lot of people and lights. Disney patrols regularly for them. This was not a situation where they were negligent. This was a crazy freak occurrence. You can have signs for everything - contents may be hot, there are mosquitos here in Florida that can pass on disease, run right inside if it starts to rain in case there is lightning, Disney is a prime spot for pickpockets and kidnappers so watch out! But at a certain point freak accidents happen. They happen to good people. They happen in areas where people are trying hard to be careful and safe. They still happen and it's not negligence.
People are around cows more often than gators, I would imagine. That could be a reason gator attacks are more rare. I still don't see why this would mean more explicit signage would be a bad idea.
They said on CNN that the alligator was endangered 50 years ago, but now there are 1.3 million in FL alone.
Damn.Â
They are still a protected species (federally listed because of similarity of appearance to crocodiles, which are endangered). However, they are a managed species in Florida, so you can get tags to hunt them, and nuisance gators can be killed.
They are still a protected species (federally listed because of similarity of appearance to crocodiles, which are endangered). However, they are a managed species in Florida, so you can get tags to hunt them, and nuisance gators can be killed.
Same in Louisiana. There is a lot of paperwork if you even hit an alligator with your car. Alligator farmers are required to release so many into the wild based on how many they hatch. We had to have one relocated that was hanging out in the river behind our house too regularly.
I don't understand why calling for more explicit signage is taken as "Disney hate."
in terms of the "I can't believe they didn't have signs/can't believe they show movies there/can't believe they have beach chairs our there". That to me is implying that Disney was negligent. Or the implication that they knew it was a threat and purposely didn't warn people so they could maintain their "happiest place on earth" aura. I'm no massive Disney lover, but this just seems like nonsense to me.
Post by RoxMonster on Jun 15, 2016 18:07:30 GMT -5
I am someone who thinks they should re-think/change the signs going forward and at the same time doesn't blame Disney that this tragic accident happened. I honestly don't think anyone--tourists or Disney--really comprehended this could be a very real threat here, hence the signs only saying "no swimming" and the beach chairs and the movies and events, etc. so near the water's edge.
BUT something tragic did happen. It shows us all that it CAN happen here. So now that we know better, why not do better? Perhaps re-think holding events so close the water's edge or at the very least, if no one should be in the water, improve the signs and maybe even consider putting a rope or some sort of barrier up to reinforce that no, you really should not even be IN the water at all. Period. End stop.
I don't understand what it would hurt to change the signs to be more specific and am confused why some people seem so against it.
ETA: The news article I just read regarding the authorities finding the little boy stated at the end that the signs said only "no swimming" and that Disney was considering changing some things going forward, so it seems Disney itself is also on board with changing up the signage.
Okay, the people in those movie on the beach pictures are way too close to water that could have large, fast predators in it. Why is Disney letting people hang out there?
Okay, the people in those movie on the beach pictures are way too close to water that could have large, fast predators in it. Why is Disney letting people hang out there?
I like how Disney was also quick to state that the believe the movie was over at the time the incident occurred.
Yeah, but the schedule says it starts at 8:30. I am pretty sure zootopia lasts longer than 45 minutes. They usually don't start until it gets darker, because those projection screens aren't very visible until then.
Okay, after looking at those pictures, seriously, Disney should be ashamed of knowing there were alligators in the water and still allowing a setup of children activities literally feet from the water, where an alligator could have just as easily walked on shore, and not having any signs indicating alligators or a great danger.
If I would have seen that sign during the movie night I would have thought it was because of no lifeguards. The Jersey Shore has " no swimming " signs up prior to Memorial Day after labor day and from dusk to dawn to indicate there are no lifeguards on duty and swim at your own risk.
Regardless if the kid never put his foot in the water but was standing the shore, Disney KNEW there were alligators and were putting their guests in danger.
Okay, the people in those movie on the beach pictures are way too close to water that could have large, fast predators in it. Why is Disney letting people hang out there?
THANK YOU! And, as you pointed out, these are not only water-locked creatures and Disney fucking knew there were alligators; there were 4 just this week.
Disney did not do enough with the information they had.
Okay, the people in those movie on the beach pictures are way too close to water that could have large, fast predators in it. Why is Disney letting people hang out there?
Because this has never happened in the __ years they've been doing it and no one can foresee it would have happened? I have lived in Central Florida for nine years and can count (publicized) alligator/crocodile attacks on one hand.
I also imagine Disney is asking itself if there is something more they could or should have done, so why can't we ask that?
Sure, but as a means to prevent future accidents. That doesn't mean they were at fault for this. I agree that, in light of what happened, more specific signage should be displayed (although I doubt this beach will be open in the near future). But, guess what? People (no one on ML, of course) ignore signs and might still get hurt. That still doesn't mean they are to blame when something literally unthinkable happens.
Okay, the people in those movie on the beach pictures are way too close to water that could have large, fast predators in it. Why is Disney letting people hang out there?
Because this has never happened in the __ years they've been doing it and no one can foresee it would have happened? I have lived in Central Florida for nine years and can count (publicized) alligator/crocodile attacks on one hand.
Did you see Jeff Corwin's interview? He was shocked. Then when the reporter basically asked him the same things being asked here, his answer was basically just that they had no reason to think there was a true risk. That this isn't truly common alligator behavior and that with the detailed monitoring system they have in place, there wouldn't have been a reason for them to think that a predator large enough to be capable of this would have been in that lake or lurking by that shore. Of course he also 100% recognized that now that it's happened they of course have to learn from it.
There are wild animals all over and occasionally people get too close. In Florida people should assume there is a gator in every lake. Survey the area before getting close to the water. Gators usually hang out with their eyes just over the surface. Not seeing them doesn't make it clear, but it's a good precaution. There are shark attacks in the ocean, gators in the lakes. I'm in SD right now and if I'm walking in the grass near my hotel and a rattle snake strikes it's not the fault of my hotel. The world is a dangerous place, use common sense, weigh the risks for your personal tolerance and behave accordingly.
I'm sorry, but saying "use common sense" just sounds flippant and maybe even arrogant. Not every person knows that water in FL = risk of alligators. Just like not everyone would know that high grass in <insert location> would mean the risk of snakes.
Tourist areas should assume that customers do NOT know these sort of things. It's just a good precaution.
I'm not blaming Disney and I definitely won't blame these parents...but I think that the death of this child should prove to be an eye opening moment for Disney (and other tourist attractions)
What some deem "common sense" is not even common knowledge or on the radar of thoughts/possibility of others. Something as simple as clear signs warning tourists of local potential dangers (alligators, Sharks, snakes, etc) can perhaps prevent another death.
Okay, the people in those movie on the beach pictures are way too close to water that could have large, fast predators in it. Why is Disney letting people hang out there?
Because this has never happened in the __ years they've been doing it and no one can foresee it would have happened? I have lived in Central Florida for nine years and can count (publicized) alligator/crocodile attacks on one hand.
Didn't the article state they found 4 alligators in the lake this week during their normal patrol? If so, I get that some wildlife encounters can truly be extremely rare but even if alligators don't normally attack people Disney knows they have the capacity to kill and were in their normal habitat and present this week.
Sharks can be classified the same. It is rare for an attack but when sharks are in the shallow waters of the shore they don't throw up a sign saying " no swimming " and hold movie nights.
Because this has never happened in the __ years they've been doing it and no one can foresee it would have happened? I have lived in Central Florida for nine years and can count (publicized) alligator/crocodile attacks on one hand.
Sharks can be classified the same. It is rare for an attack but when sharks are in the shallow waters of the shore they don't throw up a sign saying " no swimming " and hold movie nights.
Because this has never happened in the __ years they've been doing it and no one can foresee it would have happened? I have lived in Central Florida for nine years and can count (publicized) alligator/crocodile attacks on one hand.
Didn't the article state they found 4 alligators in the lake this week during their normal patrol? If so, I get that some wildlife encounters can truly be extremely rare but even if alligators don't normally attack people Disney knows they have the capacity to kill and were in their normal habitat and present this week.
Sharks can be classified the same. It is rare for an attack but when sharks are in the shallow waters of the shore they don't throw up a sign saying " no swimming " and hold movie nights.
This argument is fairly pointless, but do you live near an ocean? Growing up we swam around sharks all of the time. (We obviously didn't see the fins and run into the waves, but you knew they were there.) I remember many times, seeing an overhead view of the beaches on the news and you could see all of the shadows of sharks. We were never kept out of the water. I don't really think this means anything in relation to the alligator attack, but sharks are frequently present without warning signs.
Sharks can be classified the same. It is rare for an attack but when sharks are in the shallow waters of the shore they don't throw up a sign saying " no swimming " and hold movie nights.
Who's they?
The beach patrol/city/town? I guess whoever would be responsible for that area of the beach.
I was being flippant with the movie night, obviously, but I think the thing that bothers me the most is that resort was PURPOSELY drawing people to the beach knowing there were alligators that week. They could have easily moved the movie night but by purposely placing an activity directed at children near a potentially known hazard they are responsible.
Didn't the article state they found 4 alligators in the lake this week during their normal patrol? If so, I get that some wildlife encounters can truly be extremely rare but even if alligators don't normally attack people Disney knows they have the capacity to kill and were in their normal habitat and present this week.
Sharks can be classified the same. It is rare for an attack but when sharks are in the shallow waters of the shore they don't throw up a sign saying " no swimming " and hold movie nights.
This argument is fairly pointless, but do you live near an ocean? Growing up we swam around sharks all of the time. (We obviously didn't see the fins and run into the waves, but you knew they were there.) I remember many times, seeing an overhead view of the beaches on the news and you could see all of the shadows of sharks. We were never kept out of the water. I don't really think this means anything in relation to the alligator attack, but sharks are frequently present without warning signs.
Yes, I grew up by the water and swam with sand sharks and other harmless sharks and we all know the beach won't be 'closed' for those sharks. But, hey, if you can find me a safe alligator we can swim with let me know!! Lol.
The beach patrol/city/town? I guess whoever would be responsible for that area of the beach.
I was being flippant with the movie night, obviously, but I think the thing that bothers me the most is that resort was PURPOSELY drawing people to the beach knowing there were alligators that week. They could have easily moved the movie night but by purposely placing an activity directed at children near a potentially known hazard they are responsible.
Ok, yes, you're right. Disney purposefully lured unsuspecting families / toddlers to a beach to be devoured by predators they probably planted in the first place.