When I was a kid, my mom worked weekend nights, and would come home at 6:30 am on Saturday and Sundays and sleep until 12ish. My father would take over, and made sure we got our chores done and he ran errands and got lunch ready and everything.He did all these things not because someone had to do them, but because he wanted her to wake up to a clean house and not be stressed out so that everyone could enjoy the weekend as a family.
Knowing how to adult and how to communicate will go a long way, but at its core, you need two partners who take pride in being part of the team and enjoy making their spouses happy. If someone just doesn't give a shit about the happiness, safety, and success of the team, all the lists in the world won't fix the issues.
For some people, household management naturally comes easier and often couples have mismatches in expectations and standards. Lists and communication can really help, and don't think lists in and of themselves are bad. But regardless of whether there's a list, it's about whether the person is doing the stuff does it because he feels a buy-in, wants to see everyone be able to enjoy life, and respects his spouse and enjoys making her happy. Or is he doing it begrudgingly because he wants to avoid more nagging.
Point being, these articles always miss the point. Communication is part of it. If there isn't some baseline level of respect, the problem wont go away.
My husband is active in his a grad chapter of his fraternity. They plan fundraisers, community service events, and all of membership events without the help of women. Sure some of these things are rituals and traditions that have remained the same for generations but there are new initiatives and events that they create and coordinate yearly. Men are capable of these things and do them when necessary.
Good point. Come to think of it, the fraternities at my college had way better formals than we (the sororities) did. Anecdotes, but interesting. I need to find out who the former frat guys here are and put them to work.
I'm in a profession that is both design and production based. I work with engineers, architects and landscape architects on behalf of private clients to submit drawing packages to cities for approvals. In offices of all sizes, the majority of these "coordinator/conductor" roles fall to the women in the profession because we are naturally good at multi-tasking, anticipating the issues and playing coordinator between developer and city staff. That rolls into our at-home roles too, with or without kids. We are naturally programmed to multitask and that includes the mental side as well.
The article notes that once we give up that mental tracking and share it, things would be equal. I'm not sure I want that, at least for me, being the one to track these things assures they are being done, and double-checking DH does neither of us any good. Maybe that's my control-freak side coming thru.
The bolded is what I refuse to believe. I don't believe we are innately better at these things because we are women -- to the extent we may be better at them, it's because we're told we need to be. If the house is dirty, if the kids forget to bring in money for the book fair, who gets judged for that? The husband?
There's a strong element of "boys will be boys" I'm hearing here, like an '80s sitcom of the adorably inept husband who can't figure out which end of the baby to diaper.
The cynical part of me also wonders if these "coordinator/conductor" roles pay as much as the engineering jobs.
I'm an engineer at a very large company and see this a lot. The female engineers (of which there are only a few) tend to volunteer or get asked to do the "coordination" type activities on engineering projects or departmental activities. When it comes time for rewarding for performance, technical achievements tend to bear more weight. I struggled as a younger engineer because I was not as strong technically as some of my peers. I gravitated towards people management and technical project management -- where I felt I was strongest, could perform best and tended to enjoy more.
I've been a manager for two years now and luckily my boss highly values the "coordination" and "get it done" traits. Since becoming a manager the trajectory of my career has been in an upswing (it was pretty flat prior) and my boss frequently calls on me for the tasks he really needs to see completed. I'm very happy with how I've been recognized the past two years, but sadly, I doubt this is the norm.
My husband is 50, and I don't really feel this way. I mean, there is definitely some kid stuff that defaults to me, but there is some stuff like the yard/car/trash that defaults to him. I am absolutely certain that he would figure it all out if I died tomorrow. I am with the poster that said some of you need to be flipping tables.
I will say that my husband will point out how biased kid things can be towards women. We have 2 kids with major medical issues. He gets really frustrated when the doctor/nurse/therapist/IEP team looks to me for all the answers when he is sitting there -- and knows our kids as well as I do.
He also would have NO CLUE that we need to register our kid next week for kindergarten or look for a preschool a year in advance. But, that is because he isn't on mommies boards where people are panicking about this stuff (which is the only reason I know this). And, I bet he would still get our kid into kindergarten even if he rolled up to the school 2 days before Labor Day (he would miss getting her into Spanish Immersion, but she would survive). I firmly believe that the panic the internet has caused about getting everything done early and perfect by mom isn't particularly useful for any of us.
See for me I want to be with a partner that I don't feel as though I need to double check to make sure things are done. We are both adults.
Word! I was/ am not about to build my life around a man child. I married a true partner, and we now we parent together. I'm not willing to micromanage/ parent my partner and our children. Fuck that noise! If I was constantly thinking, "This dude needs to do better," it would mess with our attraction because my lady bits would shrivel up and die.
and this is why dating at 40+ is such a challenge. I want a partner but the availability of guys who DO/CAN be partners is in ridiculous short supply it seems. As much as I want to be in a relationship, I'm NOT going to be in one w another man child again ... no no nope.
I'm happy for all of the women in here who have 50-50 splits. I really am! The research shows that split is SO rare that scholars can't even find enough of them (or enough even 55-45 couples) to do more than just small-scale studies. But, I also think we need to be more considerate of the women who are feeling taken advantage of. Structural constraints, socialization, and cultural expectations are REALLY hard to overcome. If someone can't do that, the answer isn't to say some version of, "What's wrong with you that you haven't made things equal yet?!?" but to offer suggestions and ask how we can help. Think if we treated other forms of inequality that way...."Why don't you, structurally oppressed person, just unilaterally fix it?"
I'll say that I'm a feminist who heads a gender studies program and studies the division of labor, for God's sake, and things are still 60/40 or 65/35 me at my house! I am married to a fabulous, feminist man, who will do anything I ask. But, that's the key---I still have to do the asking when it comes to the irregular, invisible labor. The remembering part all falls to me. I am able to be super Type A because I have a Type B husband who is willing to be a trailing spouse. The trade-off is that I'm the one who has to remember to put "dog needs more heartworm meds" and "buy light bulbs" on his list. We come from different social class backgrounds, so I have a vastly different expectation of retirement (i.e., before age 75+) than he does and have to allocate resources accordingly. Otherwise, we'd live in the moment. I am the one who sees that the blueberries have gone bad and need to be tossed, in large part because I am the one who makes sure we eat blueberries. If he meal planned, he would quite literally be OK with the 7 meal rotation (lasagna with salad-steak and potatoes-burgers and hot dogs with chips-salsbury steak and raw veggies-pot roast with carrots and potatoes-vegetable soup from leftover pot roast-take out pizza) that his dad cooks.
I don't want to have to make a to-do list for my adult husband. The biggest fight of our marriage was one in which I ended up shooting out a snot bubble while sobbing, "You.never.buy.stamps!" (at which point we both started laughing.) BUT, he's kind, and thoughtful, and sweet, and sexy. And, he is completely comfortable with me being me, supports my career 100% (to the point where he changed his own profession 180 degrees to be able to follow me to wherever my job takes me,) and puts up with just the right amount of my shit. So, if the trade off is that I have to literally write down on a sheet of paper "bring in the flower pots" or "wade through old magazine stack," I'm OK with that. After all- he's probably thinking, "She's great, but I have to eat vegetarian several times a week and see her (difficult) parents monthly and she's so lazy that she takes a nap pretty much every day."
The good news is that relationship satisfaction is not related to equality so much as equity in household chores. It doesn't matter if it's truly 50-50. It matters if, overall, for whatever reason, it feels fair. I hope everyone can find an arrangement that feels fair.
when I was growing up my mom did EVERYTHING - seven kids and 99% of the parenting fell to her. I don't blame my dad, he worked long hours in a manual labor job to feed us. We were poor. It was just how things were.
what I do NOT condone is today, in normal two parent (often two working parent) households with ok incomes and reasonable levels of stress, one parent being a man child who can't take the trash out or take care of his own damn child for a day without constant check ins, lists and nagging.
I think it is two fold where, firstly many men were perhaps raised in a household where the woman shouldered the burden and they meet a woman who is willing to go along with that. And on top of that women tending toward being too uptight about how he is doing something ... Like he's not cleaning right, or feeding or dressing the kids in the perfect manner, or he put a movie on for them etc.
I don't particularly care if I go away for a few hours, or the day or the weekend and my husband doesn't spend that time with the kids in some perfect manner. As long as he keeps them alive, puts some clothing on them, and feeds them SOMETHING, it's all good. They love their dad too, and it's ok if he doesn't do things the way I would. Sure he may get more takeout if I'm not there, he might just take them out to eat and they have mac n cheese that costs $7 a bowl. but.. eh. I mean, in the grand scheme of things its really fine.
I do keep track of things like social events we have coming up and such, he is bad at that. But, he is much better about cleaning the house than me. I cook. He does yard work. He drops off at daycare, I pick up. It's a balance. I can't imagine doing everything, I wouldn't be able to stand it.
I also agree with the "not a mind reader thing". How are they supposed to know? I wouldn't like it much if my H went around in a huff and I had no idea why and finally after days of cajoling I discovered he really wanted me to buy XYZ when I was at the store and I forgot to.
Why do we women do these things to ourselves?
Generally my H is good but there have been times when I've had to talk to him and say "I do the cooking every night and you are supposed to vacuum/dust/mop etc. and you haven't been doing that enough and I'm certainly not getting out the vacuum and there is a lot of dog hair .." and he'll say sorry, I'll try harder, and get up and vacuum.
What would it achieve if I just huffed and took out the vacuum myself and starting doing all his work and my own? well he'd just think, oh great, I can keep relaxing here then! NO SIR.
I think it is two fold where, firstly many men were perhaps raised in a household where the woman shouldered the burden and they meet a woman who is willing to go along with that. And on top of that women tending toward being too uptight about how he is doing something ... Like he's not cleaning right, or feeding or dressing the kids in the perfect manner, or he put a movie on for them etc.
I don't particularly care if I go away for a few hours, or the day or the weekend and my husband doesn't spend that time with the kids in some perfect manner. As long as he keeps them alive, puts some clothing on them, and feeds them SOMETHING, it's all good. They love their dad too, and it's ok if he doesn't do things the way I would. Sure he may get more takeout if I'm not there, he might just take them out to eat and they have mac n cheese that costs $7 a bowl. but.. eh. I mean, in the grand scheme of things its really fine.
I do keep track of things like social events we have coming up and such, he is bad at that. But, he is much better about cleaning the house than me. I cook. He does yard work. He drops off at daycare, I pick up. It's a balance. I can't imagine doing everything, I wouldn't be able to stand it.
Ditto. when I go OOT, to be honest, i don't really care what my H does with the kids. My DS thinks its super fun that he and dad get to sit around and share junk food and eat Culver's. Whatever, everyone is happy and fed!
I do a lot of the invisible work because my H has a job that is much more demanding than I do. He works longer hours and even when he is "off" work, he is still getting calls and e-mails. With my work schedule, its just easier for me to schedule appointments, do the shopping, etc. And I am more type A about that stuff than he is and really, I don't mind being in control of things like that.
I also agree with the "not a mind reader thing". How are they supposed to know? I wouldn't like it much if my H went around in a huff and I had no idea why and finally after days of cajoling I discovered he really wanted me to buy XYZ when I was at the store and I forgot to.
Why do we women do these things to ourselves?
Generally my H is good but there have been times when I've had to talk to him and say "I do the cooking every night and you are supposed to vacuum/dust/mop etc. and you haven't been doing that enough and I'm certainly not getting out the vacuum and there is a lot of dog hair .." and he'll say sorry, I'll try harder, and get up and vacuum.
What would it achieve if I just huffed and took out the vacuum myself and starting doing all his work and my own? well he'd just think, oh great, I can keep relaxing here then! NO SIR.
I agree.
Also, I actually think, in some households, things don't seem 50/50 because women often do a lot of unnecessary shit.
I mean sure, I could say I do 75% of the work on the home front, when I'm factoring in intense meal planning around pantry staples and timing them with sales and in season vegetables, or when I insist on folding laundry so my towels are folded "correctly", or when I'm using a label maker to organize our entire life. At the end of the day those things are unnecessary and I can't complain that my husband isnt involved just because he refuses to do it *my* way.
So when I'm overloaded and ask him to go shopping I let him do it his way and it's fine. We survive.
I think we often don't make compromises in how we like things to be done, and inadvertently do a lot of extra work to make sure things are done our way.
Also, it's okay to make some sort of bulk meat in a crockpot and make your family eat it for three days in whatever fashion they see fit. Y'all need to stop stressing about dinner. I'm always been amazed when people post weekly menus and some people make intense meals every day of the week. Tonight we're having leftover soup from Monday with leftover sliders from Sunday and that's okay.
We're probably a 50/50 split when looked in aggregate. H does a lot of the morning crap - feeding the kids breakfast, making lunches, etc. I do the afternoon/evening stuff - cook dinner, unload backpacks, review paperwork, etc. I'm the calendar keeper for us and the kids. H makes all the vet appointments. When I go out of town on business I don't leave frantic lists or scads of prepared meals.
There are times where I'm doing more than he is... and vice versa. It all generally comes out in the wash.
One of the things I learned very early in our relationship is that just because it's not done the way I would have done it doesn't mean it's wrong.
Except this shit:
This shit is just wrong no matter which way you look at it.
2curlydogs , um... how is that wrong? I don't get it. DH is the dishwasher police in my house, have at it, if the dishes are clean I am happy.
It's stuck in the middle of the tray... over the tines, no less. Rather than being next to the other 2 cups on the right. This isn't the most egregious example of how he loads the dishwasher, but it was the one from last night.
It's an efficiency thing. If he loads the dishwasher things are just thrown wherever. Yes, they may be clean. But when I load it, I can fit approximately twice what he manages to get in there, so we're running it fewer times for the same outcome.
2curlydogs , um... how is that wrong? I don't get it. DH is the dishwasher police in my house, have at it, if the dishes are clean I am happy.
It's stuck in the middle of the tray... over the tines, no less. Rather than being next to the other 2 cups on the right. This isn't the most egregious example of how he loads the dishwasher, but it was the one from last night.
It's an efficiency thing. If he loads the dishwasher things are just thrown wherever. Yes, they may be clean. But when I load it, I can fit approximately twice what he manages to get in there, so we're running it fewer times for the same outcome.
Gotcha. I guess in this area I am your DH, and he is you.
It's stuck in the middle of the tray... over the tines, no less. Rather than being next to the other 2 cups on the right. This isn't the most egregious example of how he loads the dishwasher, but it was the one from last night.
It's an efficiency thing. If he loads the dishwasher things are just thrown wherever. Yes, they may be clean. But when I load it, I can fit approximately twice what he manages to get in there, so we're running it fewer times for the same outcome.
Gotcha. I guess in this area I am your DH, and he is you.
Totally fair. We all have our "Thing". H's is how his t-shirts are folded. Which means he's the one who folds them.
We're probably a 50/50 split when looked in aggregate. H does a lot of the morning crap - feeding the kids breakfast, making lunches, etc. I do the afternoon/evening stuff - cook dinner, unload backpacks, review paperwork, etc. I'm the calendar keeper for us and the kids. H makes all the vet appointments. When I go out of town on business I don't leave frantic lists or scads of prepared meals.Â
There are times where I'm doing more than he is... and vice versa. It all generally comes out in the wash.
One of the things I learned very early in our relationship is that just because it's not done the way I would have done it doesn't mean it's wrong.Â
Except this shit:
This shit is just wrong no matter which way you look at it.
LOL. I absolutely rearrange the dishwasher at my house. But the thing is, I recognize that that's something I take on for myself for my Type A personality. H doesn't really care. And when I'm not around to rearrange, the dishes still get clean.
I actually think this is a great example of one partner taking on additional, non-necessary work. It's fine if you or I want to do it, but it's not fair to blame our spouses for not loading the dishwasher the same way we would.
Post by jeaniebueller on Jan 3, 2017 12:39:04 GMT -5
Also, it's okay to make some sort of bulk meat in a crockpot and make your family eat it for three days in whatever fashion they see fit. Y'all need to stop stressing about dinner. I'm always been amazed when people post weekly menus and some people make intense meals every day of the week. Tonight we're having leftover soup from Monday with leftover sliders from Sunday and that's okay.
Same here. We eat take out, convenience foods, i often just throw something together in the spur of the moment with ingredients on hand, etc. I tried meal planning for a bit last summer and the cost benefit analysis was just not there. The half hour or so a week i spent putting together a menu was just not worth the time considering we seem to be okay eating whatever we throw together.
I'm going to have to echo others about kicking us when we're down. I know the situation in my house isn't right and I'm trying to fix things so being told how much better all of you and your husbands are does nothing but make me want to cry more. I hate how things have gotten to this place in my life and if things could be fixed by just by me trying harder then my house would be egalitarian as fuck.
My husband is 41 and grew up with single parents so he's used to seeing just one parent do all the work. When he was 13 he moved in with his dad and pretty much lived the semi-feral bachelor life until we got serious. I remembered telling him that if he wanted me to spend the night more often he needs to keep some kind of food in his house because his life of takeout and no groceries was bullshit. Our household duties were divided a little more evenly back in our days of two incomes and no kid but now that I'm a SAHM mom with a husband who works from home full time I'm hitting my breaking point. I understand that he's working during the day and appreciate that if I have a doctor's appointment, a PTA meeting, or just need to get the fuck out for my sanity I have the flexibility of another adult at home but it's tiring having nag and stand over him to get him to pick up a tiny bit more of the workload around the house. I also need him to get his shit together and start doing some hands on caretaking for his sick mother and would be more agreeable to keeping this pace at home he was doing more at her house.
I don't see any of this in our relationship. We are 37 so not millennial. DH doesn't do everything, but neither do I. Reading this it just seems so over the top.
This is us, too. DH and I are pretty equal in the 'notices messes/keeps schedules in our heads' department. He remembers/notices certain things, I do the same. We both know that the other occasionally needs reminding of certain things, and we do it without contempt because we are in an equal relationship.
He is a SAHD right now because he's unemployed, and he is keeping things running. Taking care of the kids, doing laundry, vacuuming, cooking dinner. I do what I can when I get home to help out, and he appreciates it. I do pay the bills and keep the accounting up to date, although he has a couple of bills he pays on his own (student loan, some utilities that are in his name).
He worries about the kids just as much as I do, if not more.
Also I think sometimes things were more equal for young professionals without kids, but then they marry, have kids, often the dh ends up with a much more demanding career with longer hours, the woman gradually takes on more and them what, you're going to divorce a man you love bc he doesn't keep track of doctors appointments or take out the trash often enough? Probably not, but it doesn't change the frustration the woman may feel with the arrangement. I think a lot if the problems are societal and not with the individual couple. (Men generally being paid more leading to his career taking precedence, women being the only ones with maternity leave starting a pattern of them doing more for the kids, general expectations that mom volunteer in the classroom etc...
In my case my dh does a decent amount but he also works long hours with an hour commute and I work part time. I don't mind doing more and I actually enjoy cooking and cleaning to an extent but o hate keeping it ALL In my brain. But as an absent minded professor type my dh would also definitely forget things (pay bills late, pay tons more to ship stiff overnight, but tons of expensive take out etc...) and I am frugal and I also find it less stressful to do stuff myself than to deal with the financial stress of late fees etc.
At least my dh is very good about doing any stuff I ask in the moment, he just doesn't tend to notice it on his own.
I'm happy for all of the women in here who have 50-50 splits. I really am! The research shows that split is SO rare that scholars can't even find enough of them (or enough even 55-45 couples) to do more than just small-scale studies. But, I also think we need to be more considerate of the women who are feeling taken advantage of. Structural constraints, socialization, and cultural expectations are REALLY hard to overcome. If someone can't do that, the answer isn't to say some version of, "What's wrong with you that you haven't made things equal yet?!?" but to offer suggestions and ask how we can help. Think if we treated other forms of inequality that way...."Why don't you, structurally oppressed person, just unilaterally fix it?"
...
I think many of us have tried to do just that by offering ideas of places where women (or any partner who feels overwhelmed) can look to let things go.
I have definitely fought with H over division of labor in our household. I don't even know if we're truly 50-50. But after 15 years of living together, we've both learned how to let some things go, learned what things are important to each other, and that's been really healthy for us as individuals and for our marriage. That's why my responses in this type of thread have often been to point out things that sound like the poster taking on things that she doesn't really need to do.
I'll defer to your expertise about how hard it is to find 50-50 couples. I'm certainly not going to say that I haven't seen unbalanced relationships where one or both partners is really unhappy.
persa you have a unique and new situation in your family, so one wouldn't suggest you simply just let those things go and hope your husband just gets it. But that doesn't mean there are not other things that can be let go and left for ones spouse to pick up.
(not directed at you, persa, but just in general response to this topic) I think we as women have a tendency to take on so many things in a relationship without really discussing our needs with our partner and expressing our expectations to them. When we do express our needs and expectations and are met with a less than satisfactory response, we simply take up our duties again, not realizing that we can let things go even if they never get picked up by our partners. If we don't want to let those things go, at some point we have to come to accept that we're self imposing those burdens.
Now don't infer that I'm saying this is an easy thing to do. It's certainly not! I am loathe to let just about anything go and not "sweat the small stuff." But I've found so much relief and happiness at realizing that a) my spouse is capable of "adulting" and taking care of things and b) it's OK to look out for my needs and managing the minutiae of our lives is typically a poor use of my time and causes me to sacrifice my happiness.
Yes, but as a young woman, you are applauded for doing it all. Starting a career, house, chores, etc. It's sort of a thing that we teach girls from early on the "have it all mentality." It's not intentional, it's just that they see their moms doing a lot (cleaning, cooking, shopping, full-time work, going out with friends, etc.) - then we hide the struggles from the girls and applaud them for being able to letter in sports while keeping straight A's. It's ingrained in girls to do a lot - or even more - than boys.
Maybe it's generational, but then you do that early in a relationship with a male, who also has these strong women roll-models maybe, and they always see women getting ish done and then it's 10 years into a relationship with a house and three kids and all of a sudden you realize how uneven things really are. A decade of that is tough to counter in 12 months ... and usually is tough when it's wrapped up in emotions about kids and careers too. And not sweating the small stuff is not the key - and not supportive to people who are in an uneven situation. Talking a lot, some fighting/come-to-Jesus talks, and some real consequences (maybe having a bill sent to collections or a bad credit report or a call from the school) is what might have to happen. It's more that partners need to feel the consequences and realize how to fix it in their relationship.
I'm super laid back about dishes and cleaning, but really... it feels big when you leave for a week of work and return to kids who missed appointments, a call from the school because your kid was so late that they were unexcused (no, they didn't call my DH - me only and I made them call him after they called me), and a house that looks like a tornado. It feels like your spouse doesn't care or acknowledge the work that needs to be done and therefore doesn't value you. That's a big thing IMO and feeling devalued is not fixed by getting over the small stuff or trying to just ignore that issue.
I am pretty lucky that our life doesn't really require a ton of maintenance usually. We are DINKS who rent and currently only have a hedgehog as a pet, so keeping up with things is really pretty minimal. I take care of most of the "running the house" stuff but really, that means things like paying bills, buying groceries, and cleaning up, which I'd have to do even if I was living alone. He takes care of his own appointments and stuff, and occasionally I'll help him out if he needs something (like, I ordered him new clothes recently because he needs them and shopping stresses him out, while I find it fun). I've also voluntarily picked up some of the slack around housework since we both basically work full time but as a PhD student, he also has work to do in the evenings and I don't. So it makes more sense to me to have me cook dinner and such while he works, and then we can both hopefully take a break later when everything is done.
I used to be married to someone who was not helpful in the least and I got in the habit of taking care of everything. Now I don't feel like I HAVE TO do that with my current partner, but I think it would actually be hard for me to turn over the control of knowing the bills are paid, the vacation details are figured out, we have stuff to bring to work for lunch, etc. I suppose if he really wanted to take care of those things I could let it go, but it doesn't bother me to do it.
I do not envy those of you who have kids and do it all. I find it manageable in my situation but I also know part of the reason I am not having kids is because having a ton of extra responsibilities and people to care for is NOT something I'd handle well. Even a 50/50 split would be a struggle for my naturally lazy butt, so hats off to those of you who are doing that or more.
I struggle with this topic. I just wrote out like 5 rambling paragraphs about all the ways in which I find this a hard topic and realized that I REALLY need to talk to my husband. But deleted them, because no. y'all are not my therapist. Typically we do ok in all the big stuff. (eta: to be clear, childcare is where we fall down because the little heathens prefer me for reasons that escape me and he feels no need to attempt to counteract the endless mamamamamama unless I'm literally up to my elbows in something. And even then...he'll wait until I'm about to blow a gasket)
I think the most frustrating part of this though is feeling like some sort of weak failure when I'm just too damn tired from being too damn tired to fight with MH about all the ways in which his inaction results in me being too damn tired. So then i also get to feel guilty for being complicit in my own tiredness. Fuck.that.shit.
Also, yeah, my lady parts do in fact shrivel up like the high desert on those occasions. But now I'm about to get back into my rambling 5 paragraphs of wordvomit-internettherapy...so yeah. That's all I have to say about THAT.
eta: I don't remember who said it though, but I do want to call out whoever was all, "women are naturally better multi-taskers" No. Absolutely not. Stop. I will not. There are a lot of reasons why things tend to get uneven, but I will not agree with anything about how this is just how things are meant to be because nature. no m'am. Thank you. We have some largely childcare related inequities in our marriage, but MH is in fact a grown-ass adult who has proven time and time again that he is equally capable of dealing with this shit (whether he actually DOES SO in the moment or not.)
Things are split pretty evenly between me and my H - actually, he definitely does more because he takes on the "manly" tasks, like this weekend spending hours assembling some IKEA storage units.
He is so on top of things, though, because he had a very strict southern upbringing with an insane amount of chores at a young age. If he wasn't doing his chores to the expectation, well, a nasty stepfather usually brought him back in line
He's way more OCD than me about anything, but he would have probably preferred a less shitty childhood.
My H and I talked about this at length yesterday. He is the type of partner that is fully involved in "second shift." He seemed to think the reason for him being that way is because his parents required him to be very independent. They are both workaholics and so he had to care for himself starting around age 10. He was expected to make himself basic meals, do laundry, etc. He often arranged his own rides home from school activities. We talked about how it's somewhat interesting that his little brother is NOT as independent. My H proposed that it was because he did that kind of thing *for* his little brother.
IDK. Anecdotes, I know. But I thought I'd relay the conversation we had.
Yes I often wonder what these men were like while dating.
I think it's a combination of my laid back personality and being up front about my expectations while dating. I refuse to be with a man who doesn't do at least half the cooking, cleaning and household tasks like paying bills. And if a partner isn't like that while dating, don't expect them to change once you get married and/or have kids.
My boyfriend has lived pretty successfully for 40 years, so I don't need to micromanage him and the house in my mind. If he didn't notice things needed replacing or cook most of the meals or do his laundry and keep common areas clean, then I would get out of the relationship with a quickness. I wouldn't expect him to change in to a different person.
Lastly, I do think women do make it harder on themselves and sweat the small stuff. For example, the past few weeks there have been so many posts about being stressed out around the holidays. Someone posted about being worried about their kids present getting delivered and it was 2 weeks before Christmas. I think those kind of things do take up too much mental energy that some people put on themselves.
I think it is some combo of personality on both ends and generational issues. We are also lucky to be able to have the disposable income to hire out the slack.
DH and I are the youngest Gen-Xers. I'm 38, he is 37.
He cooks more than I do although I can cook quite well and do when my schedule allows for it. If he gets home before I do he starts dinner and he is more likely to think ahead to defrost meat for the next evening. His dad exclusively cooked in his house growing up so it is normal for him.
He used to do 80% of the grocery shopping but now he has a more time intensive job further away, we do grocery delivery. One of us will start the list and text the other and say "add what you want/what I've forgotten". When groceries show up, we both pack them away.
Kid duty is very split as well. Although the kids cry for mummy when tired or hurt, it's not cuz I'm the dominant caregiver. DH was a SAHD briefly and handles the kids solo most mornings and when I travel for work.
I don't sweat the small stuff. My plants often die because I forget to water them if DH doesn't. If he is slacking I straight up tell him "I need more help. You need to do the dishes/laundry/whatever more regularly" I don't stew and he is not a mind-reader.
We have cleaners but we both clean in between as we have big dogs, one of whom sheds a ton. We have a robot vacuum and DH vacuums often.
I'm not a morning person so on weekends he is the one up at 7 and feeding the children.
I definitely feel the weight of his absence when he is gone almost every weekend in the Spring.
I definitely wonder if personality and culture play a big part in these dynamics. My husband is 38 and I'm 32. We're pretty in sync and we share a lot of the same responsibilities. He probably does more of the grocery shopping and various trips for incidentals on the way home from work. He usually remembers when we're low on things and will add it to our Echo/Alexa list. He doesn't like to cook, but can do it if he needs to. I have no problem letting him know "Hey, can you do this?" and he's quick to do it. No issue.
We're both pretty laid back personality wise. We have a general routine that works for us. If I suspected he was the type who didn't see the need to be involved and contribute without holding his hand or constant reminders, I wouldn't have married him. Neither of us get worked up over small stuff.
My first husband was pretty good about contributing when he was home. The dynamic was different because he deployed or was TAD frequently and I got accustomed to running things my way and solo-parenting. He was away for over five years of the 10 years we were married. Still, when he was home I expected him to be involved.
I also agree with the "not a mind reader thing". How are they supposed to know? I wouldn't like it much if my H went around in a huff and I had no idea why and finally after days of cajoling I discovered he really wanted me to buy XYZ when I was at the store and I forgot to.
Why do we women do these things to ourselves?
Generally my H is good but there have been times when I've had to talk to him and say "I do the cooking every night and you are supposed to vacuum/dust/mop etc. and you haven't been doing that enough and I'm certainly not getting out the vacuum and there is a lot of dog hair .." and he'll say sorry, I'll try harder, and get up and vacuum.
What would it achieve if I just huffed and took out the vacuum myself and starting doing all his work and my own? well he'd just think, oh great, I can keep relaxing here then! NO SIR.
@246baje and @littlemoxie we were also long distance our entire relationship before marriage and got married at 22. Honestly surprised things have worked out well in our 10yrs of marriage!!