Post by lyssbobiss, Command, B613 on May 11, 2017 18:42:02 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd also participate in an AMA if people were interested, although I identify less as poly now and more monogamish, mostly because I don't have the emotional space for multiple relationships but I am just not cut out for only having sex with one person and one gender the rest of my life.
I don't know what the perception here is or where y'all are getting it, but I get tested frequently, and I require all partners to demonstrate evidence of testing or I don't get down, and most people I have interacted with in the open community are the same.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
Tobias: You know Lindsay, as a therapist, I have advised a number of couples to explore an open relationship where the couple remains emotionally committed but free to explore extra-marital encounters.
Lindsay: Well, did it work for those people?
Tobias: No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but...but it might work for us.
I know of two couples that did this and they are both divorced now. Could it work and both people be happier for it? Sure. But, I do not think most humans are wired to be okay with the person they love shtooping someone else. I certainly do not think that an open marriage could ever solve marital issues. But, if both jsut have the desire to be in an open marriage, without it being a bandaid, and the rules are clear and the communication is open, I dunno, maybe...not something I understand, but certainly not anything to judge.
I know of two couples who did monogamy, and they're both divorced now too. Strange!
I know a few people in open or poly relationships and as far as i can tell they arent particularly successful.
One of my friends (the relationship eventually ended) said that looking back she knew the moment they agreed to it was the nail in the coffin. It was like they thought it could save it and it did just the opposite.
I know a few people in open or poly relationships and as far as i can tell they arent particularly successful.
One of my friends (the relationship eventually ended) said that looking back she knew the moment they agreed to it was the nail in the coffin. It was like they thought it could save it and it did just the opposite.
Those of us in successful ones hardly run around telling people. Gee, I wonder why.
I know a few people in open or poly relationships and as far as i can tell they arent particularly successful.
One of my friends (the relationship eventually ended) said that looking back she knew the moment they agreed to it was the nail in the coffin. It was like they thought it could save it and it did just the opposite.
Those of us in successful ones hardly run around telling people. Gee, I wonder why.
I wasnt at all judging. This is solely based on what theyve told me.
I know for a fact I couldn't do it. No way. My only anecdotal experience with open marriages were negative ones (3/3 couples) Obviously that is not a scientific study, But even if my anecdotal experiences were wildly successful, I'd not be tempted in the least.
Post by lyssbobiss, Command, B613 on May 11, 2017 20:20:30 GMT -5
I think it's hard to not feel judged when you keep reading here about the risk of STIs (when nobody has asked what our risk aware sex procedures are) and everyone seems to know a girl who knows a girl who did it and it ruined the relationship. The anecdotes seem negative, frequently.
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
I get that this is CEP but I don't have studies and graphs, just my own life experience. No where did I say a person didn't have the desire before. I guess it depends on how you define sexuality. Does fantasizing about the same sex make you gay, or bi? Does kissing a girl in college make me a lesbian? I don't think it's strange to realize, later in life, that you might want to experience things you've only thought about before. Everyone's relationship is different, I guess I'm just glad that H and I weren't shocked and upset with each other.
I have also discovered that my views on marriage, sex and monogamy have changed a lot after I turned 40 and not because I am now divorced (XH didn't cheat as far as I know). I started to realize that nothing is as black or white as I first thought.
I think it's hard to not feel judged when you keep reading here about the risk of STIs (when nobody has asked what our risk aware sex procedures are) and everyone seems to know a girl who knows a girl who did it and it ruined the relationship. The anecdotes seem negative, frequently.
When I say cooties I don't specifically mean STIs. I don't like to be touched. I am afraid of germs. That is just too many people touching me.
I have also discovered that my views on marriage, sex and monogamy have changed a lot after I turned 40 and not because I am now divorced (XH didn't cheat as far as I know). I started to realize that nothing is as black or white as I first thought.
Yeah, I remember someone saying to me long ago that every marriage makes its own rules and I wasn't married then and didn't quite get it, but now with age and experience I know this to be true. So many shades of gray. Probably 50.
-----------------------------------------------> and no Oreos, either
Tobias: You know Lindsay, as a therapist, I have advised a number of couples to explore an open relationship where the couple remains emotionally committed but free to explore extra-marital encounters.
Lindsay: Well, did it work for those people?
Tobias: No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but...but it might work for us.
I know of two couples that did this and they are both divorced now. Could it work and both people be happier for it? Sure. But, I do not think most humans are wired to be okay with the person they love shtooping someone else. I certainly do not think that an open marriage could ever solve marital issues. But, if both jsut have the desire to be in an open marriage, without it being a bandaid, and the rules are clear and the communication is open, I dunno, maybe...not something I understand, but certainly not anything to judge.
I know of two couples who did monogamy, and they're both divorced now too. Strange!
Fair enough. To be more specific, they divorced as a direct result of their open marriage. But, they were using an open marriage to try to fix things and it only exacerbated the issues. Thus my thoughts that open marriages should not be used as a bandaid.
Post by foundmylazybum on May 12, 2017 9:31:32 GMT -5
It seems like open marriages strongly favor the "couple" and their needs, wamts and desires and have the potential to really screw over the third or fourth person invited into the relationship.
I wouldn't want to be that person. The third wheel if you will lol.
It seems like open marriages strongly favor the "couple" and their needs, wamts and desires and have the potential to really screw over the third or fourth person invited into the relationship.
I wouldn't want to be that person. The third wheel if you will lol.
I wonder if the third or fourth person are often people who want some parts of a relationship and not others. Like they don't want to live with someone or do family stuff with someone or bills and all of that with someone, but they want emotional stuff and the sex.
This is a really good point and it honestly (like HONESTLY) shows how much "I" could not be that person in this type of relationship because I didn't even see those things till you pointed them out haha 😐
Post by Daria Morgandorffer on May 12, 2017 9:40:40 GMT -5
My husband and I opened our marriage years ago for similar reasons. I had completely lost any urge to have sex and despite therapy, etc, I just couldn't get myself back in that mindspace. So I broached an open marriage and we tried it out- admittedly so that I could reduce the extreme pressure and guilt on my end from making him miserable and hurting his self esteem.
But, our marriage had issues from the beginning, and through therapy I realized that my complete lack of sex drive for him was just a symptom of the bigger problems.
We are now in the beginnings of divorce. Luckily, we're still very good friends at this point since that's what we've really been for years.
I think it's hard to not feel judged when you keep reading here about the risk of STIs (when nobody has asked what our risk aware sex procedures are) and everyone seems to know a girl who knows a girl who did it and it ruined the relationship. The anecdotes seem negative, frequently.
I do find the particular concern over STIs a bit odd. I mean, we have lots of posters here who had many sexual partners before marriage or have had at least one one-night stand before. It doesn't seem too different to me. Safe sex practices are safe sex practices, whether you're married or not. I mean, be as careful as you were when you had unexclusive dating relationships?
It seems like open marriages strongly favor the "couple" and their needs, wamts and desires and have the potential to really screw over the third or fourth person invited into the relationship.
I wouldn't want to be that person. The third wheel if you will lol.
I think this is a fair critique of the community in general, because an awful lot of couples do open up in search of their "hot bi babe" who will be there to spice things up but is also disposable if things get too hard to someone in the couple. There's not a lot of consideration given to those parties, because the "primary" couple has a lot to lose if it doesn't work out, like a home together and any of those things they share.
In general, if an open relationship doesn't work out, my opinion is that opening it up isn't the thing that broke it. You can't open a relationship that isn't working already. It will only serve as a band-aid. It's similar to having kids in that respect. People make major changes in their lives because something is fucked in their marriage and they think this change is going to fix it. But it's clear from a lot of these stories that communication was really at fault here. People weren't on the same page with their expectations, and they weren't being brutally honest with their actions. And I think poor communication will wreck any relationship, monogamous or not.
Also I do appreciate a lot of you here who have been accepting, or who have taken the stance of "it's not for me, but you do you."
"This prick is asking for someone here to bring him to task Somebody give me some dirt on this vacuous mass so we can at last unmask him I'll pull the trigger on it, someone load the gun and cock it While we were all watching, he got Washington in his pocket."
I know of two couples who did monogamy, and they're both divorced now too. Strange!
Fair enough. To be more specific, they divorced as a direct result of their open marriage. But, they were using an open marriage to try to fix things and it only exacerbated the issues. Thus my thoughts that open marriages should not be used as a bandaid.
But you could say any relationship that ended due to infidelity ended as a "direct result of their closed marriage."
Not everyone in an open relationship is having casual sex without any feelings or love. I couldn't function like that and I don't. The idea that open marriage is synonymous with having dozens of unprotected partners and using them for a quick orgasm when the spouse isn't interested is cracking me up. I'd offer to do an AMA but I'm not sure there's a genuine interest.
So I actually do have a question. Answer or don't, as you please. I'm curious, but it's not like I'm entitled to answers.
How intense do your relationships outside your marriage get? How long do they last? Do you ever end side relationships because something in your marriage needs your full attention?
I was thinking about this because of where H and I are in our relationship right now. As I said above, I am not interested in an open marriage ever, but if I were, literally the only thing I'd even have time for right now would be a quickie. Given what H has dealt with this year between his own health crisis and his father's health issues, I feel like all my emotional energy that's not focused on my pregnancy has to be on supporting H. And conversely, given how much I've dealt with in caring for him while pregnant, I feel like I need all his emotional energy that's not going to his own recovery or his parents to be directed toward me. The only emotional benefit I could get from someone else right now would be to have someone who listens to me and offers me a safe place to talk about everything, which is why I have a therapist (and this board, LOL). I would shut down if someone else expected me to listen to their problems and offer emotional support.
But I also know that relationships have different seasons and may not always require so much focused emotional energy. So now I'm curious how open marriages navigate the changing relationship season.
Fair enough. To be more specific, they divorced as a direct result of their open marriage. But, they were using an open marriage to try to fix things and it only exacerbated the issues. Thus my thoughts that open marriages should not be used as a bandaid.
But you could say any relationship that ended due to infidelity ended as a "direct result of their closed marriage."
No? Infidelity is about more than sex. Infidelity involves lying and breach of trust, etc. Your assumption that a person that is willing to break marriage vows and everything that comes with that, would not do that if the marriage was open makes no sense.
Also I have never been able to do the non emotional attachment type of sex. I know this about myself so that is why this is an unfathomable concept.
I would be falling in love with eerrrryone lol.
This would be an issue for me too. Plus the thing I was thinking about with regard to this issue is, even if you go into it with "rules" that you're not going to fall in love - in the actual situation, I think that would be SO hard to resist. Falling in love with someone brand new is the best feeling in the world. It's addictive. Are you really going to be able to resist the temptation to spend all or most of your free time with this new person you find endlessly fascinating and attractive and compelling and go back to your spouse who you already know everything about and you've been sleeping with for 20 years? Yeah, eventually those giddy butterfly feelings fade but that can take years. It doesn't seem realistic to me to assume that most people can police those limits as strictly as they'd need to in order to maintain the core marriage.
It's so hard for me to feel comfortable around other people, romantic or not. There are very, VERY few people I'm truly comfortable being one-on-one with. Even people I like and respect very much.
I knew MH was the one for me because he's the only person I can be around for extended periods of time without feeling like I'm searching desperately for something to say. I do much better in groups of 3 or more where other people can serve as "buffers" when things start to feel awkward.
Even if I were to completely separate romantic feelings from sex, I don't think there's any way I could carry on a close relationship with multiple people. I really do admire anyone comfortable enough to be able to do that.
We've discussed in the same way we discuss everything that doesn't apply to us in the immediate. (like how we'd school kids that we don't plan to have).
For me, it would be due to my bisexuality. He's totally ok with that. He's not a lady, he knows I like them, too, so if the opportunity presented itself... will not confirm nor deny what has or might happen.
And I asked the question of him since we're apart so often for so long. While infidelity is technically a felony in the military, reality is it's frequent. And in many ways understandable. High stress, looking for comfort and familiarity, geographically separated. So, we wanted to broach the subject before it was a reality. He claims he has no interest, but the door is open to at least discuss before. How I'd feel if he asked sincerely would depend on how I felt about the security of our relationship in the moment. Because, like others have said, it's not a band-aid. Preferably it's only to be done when the relationship is at its strongest.
Add in physical issues I have that made me think I might not ever have sex again, well, of course I've discussed that with H. How we'd manage it. Thankfully, it has improved dramatically. Dramatic to me may be nothing to someone else, but when you're coming up from nothing...
Not everyone in an open relationship is having casual sex without any feelings or love. I couldn't function like that and I don't. The idea that open marriage is synonymous with having dozens of unprotected partners and using them for a quick orgasm when the spouse isn't interested is cracking me up. I'd offer to do an AMA but I'm not sure there's a genuine interest.
So I actually do have a question. Answer or don't, as you please. I'm curious, but it's not like I'm entitled to answers.
How intense do your relationships outside your marriage get? How long do they last? Do you ever end side relationships because something in your marriage needs your full attention?
For us, the outside relationships are strictly FWB unless it's someone we are mutually interested in.
Side relationships are absolutely secondary to the needs of our marriage, but that can be done in a compassionate way. The other person always knows and is fine with the fact that it's a FWB thing.
Relationships last all different lengths. We had a mutual girlfriend that ended it after 3-4 months to focus on finding a 1-1 relationship. MH has a FWB who is also in an open relationship, they get together once in a while for the last year or so. Sometimes my husband isn't available because stuff on our end is taking up our bandwidth, sometimes the same happens on her end. There have also been some shorter term things where it just didn't click or ended up being once or twice then fizzled.
But you could say any relationship that ended due to infidelity ended as a "direct result of their closed marriage."
No? Infidelity is about more than sex. Infidelity involves lying and breach of trust, etc. Your assumption that a person that is willing to break marriage vows and everything that comes with that, would not do that if the marriage was open makes no sense.
If that's the only way they could have sex with someone else, then yeah. Their lying would be unnecessary in an open relationship. I'm being pretty tongue in cheek here, but this is the exact line of thought that you were pushing in regards to an open relationship directly ending marriages. The point is that marriages, open or closed, end all the time due to issues related to sex and love. To say that if the marriage is open and ends for that reason is because of their choice to open the relationship but not accept the same rationale for a closed relationship is pretty hypocritical.
Also I have never been able to do the non emotional attachment type of sex. I know this about myself so that is why this is an unfathomable concept.
I would be falling in love with eerrrryone lol.
This would be an issue for me too. Plus the thing I was thinking about with regard to this issue is, even if you go into it with "rules" that you're not going to fall in love - in the actual situation, I think that would be SO hard to resist. Falling in love with someone brand new is the best feeling in the world. It's addictive. Are you really going to be able to resist the temptation to spend all or most of your free time with this new person you find endlessly fascinating and attractive and compelling and go back to your spouse who you already know everything about and you've been sleeping with for 20 years? Yeah, eventually those giddy butterfly feelings fade but that can take years. It doesn't seem realistic to me to assume that most people can police those limits as strictly as they'd need to in order to maintain the core marriage.
This would also be an issue for me. But to me it sounds like there is not an expectation in an open marriage that you WOULDN'T fall in love with another partner. I mean, that's not something you can promise or control. And it sounds like there is a spectrum of what is "permitted," I am sure it varies per relationship.
It is fascinating to me because clearly I don't have the capacity to be emotionally okay with this. But it seems as though it works for other people, and as long as everyone is happy, KOKO.
No? Infidelity is about more than sex. Infidelity involves lying and breach of trust, etc. Your assumption that a person that is willing to break marriage vows and everything that comes with that, would not do that if the marriage was open makes no sense.
If that's the only way they could have sex with someone else, then yeah. Their lying would be unnecessary in an open relationship. I'm being pretty tongue in cheek here, but this is the exact line of thought that you were pushing in regards to an open relationship directly ending marriages. The point is that marriages, open or closed, end all the time due to issues related to sex and love. To say that if the marriage is open and ends for that reason is because of their choice to open the relationship but not accept the same rationale for a closed relationship is pretty hypocritical.
I said the two relationships I know of that were open ended because they were open. Nowhere did I say or suggest that open marriages will all end in divorce. Stop reading things that are not there.
The only open marriage that i know thats successful (anecdotal, i obviously know there are many) is because they already had a very strong, honest, trusting relationship - i think thats what you need for it to work. I think people who think it will fix things probably arent approaching it the right way. But again, you do you.
And in terms of the 3rds and 4ths, no, i couldnt do it either. But i know a guy who exclusively dates married women, so there are likely a lot of people like him who are looking for that.
I would be open to an open marriage in many ways. Sometimes I think both H and I are bored, and try as we do to spice things up with each other, there's certainly an appeal to being 'allowed' to have other options. But I think that long-term it would be very hard emotionally.....what if one of us fell for a partner, or it involved someone we knows.... And I'm also worried about STD's.