Where the fuck are y'all?

[AJL]

Yes, please, do tell. Is it because it's the weekend? In the safe spaces thread, there were so many people who spoke out. What happened this time?  

[katfco]

I hadn't been on much today and just saw the page count. Off to read.

[One Girl In All The World]

I'm literally about to read it. I just read the last page or two and am going back to the beginning. But WTF to what I read so far.

[pixy0stix]

Montana where I've been in and out of cell service.

[wawa]

it's 11:30 PM on a sunday. I'm supposed to be in bed. I don't fault others for not being in right now.

[katfco]

Jun 25, 2017 22:29:09 GMT -5 wawa said:

it's 11:30 PM on a sunday. I'm supposed to be in bed. I don't fault others for not being in right now.

Looks like it's been going on for a few days now.

[rjamz]

Jun 25, 2017 22:41:22 GMT -5 katfco said:

Jun 25, 2017 22:29:09 GMT -5 wawa said:

it's 11:30 PM on a sunday. I'm supposed to be in bed. I don't fault others for not being in right now.

Looks like it's been going on for a few days now.

Yep. Things have been pretty lonely in there for a couple of days now.

[sonrisa]

I am not going to take sides on Israel and Palestine. Both groups deserve dignity, freedom, safety and self determination. The Jewish people have a long history of persecution and Palestinians currently live under difficult conditions.

I hope everyone had a good Shabbat and Eid Mubarak to all.

[whereswaldo2010]

Jun 25, 2017 22:49:47 GMT -5 rjamz said:

Jun 25, 2017 22:41:22 GMT -5 katfco said:

Looks like it's been going on for a few days now.

Yep. Things have been pretty lonely in there for a couple of days now.

Lonely for who exactly? fryjack2?

[wawa]

Jun 25, 2017 22:41:22 GMT -5 katfco said:

Jun 25, 2017 22:29:09 GMT -5 wawa said:

it's 11:30 PM on a sunday. I'm supposed to be in bed. I don't fault others for not being in right now.

Looks like it's been going on for a few days now.

Yeah, it's been meandering all over the place since Thursday.  I've been reading and keeping my lips zipped up till tonight because I don't know nearly enough to have an opinion on something so fraught.  But...yeah, it took a took for the worse tonight.  anyway,  I took rvan0905 literally - as in "where are you.  right now."  Didn't mean to be dismissive with my answer.

[katfco]

Jun 25, 2017 22:49:47 GMT -5 rjamz said:

Jun 25, 2017 22:41:22 GMT -5 katfco said:

Looks like it's been going on for a few days now.

Yep. Things have been pretty lonely in there for a couple of days now.

I initially didn't go in because I saw from the first post it was about Israeli politics and I didn't have time to dig super deep this weekend. I hadn't realized the turns itf had taken.

[rjamz]

Jun 25, 2017 22:51:12 GMT -5 whereswaldo2010 said:

Jun 25, 2017 22:49:47 GMT -5 rjamz said:

Yep. Things have been pretty lonely in there for a couple of days now.

Lonely for who exactly? fryjack2 ?

Well, fryjack2 wasn't around yesterday because she was at a family function, which I believe she mentioned in the thread. And don't you fucking dare ever accuse me of or even imply my not supporting her. She's a longtime friend of mine who knows my stance on these issues, her family, gefilte fish, and so many other things very well. So no, I'm not talking about her. I'm talking about the anti-semitic bullshit that's been piled on and the utter dismissal of the Jewish experience. When I'm told to "fuck right off" and not a single person comes to my defense until, oh! my good friend fryjack2 mentions it, then yeah, it's lonely. 

[katfco]

Jun 25, 2017 22:58:12 GMT -5 rjamz said:

Jun 25, 2017 22:51:12 GMT -5 whereswaldo2010 said:

Lonely for who exactly? fryjack2 ?

Well, fryjack2 wasn't around yesterday because she was at a family function, which I believe she mentioned in the thread. And don't you fucking dare ever accuse me of or even imply my not supporting her. She's a longtime friend of mine who knows my stance on these issues, her family, gefilte fish, and so many other things very well. So no, I'm not talking about her. I'm talking about the anti-semitic bullshit that's been piled on and the utter dismissal of the Jewish experience. When I'm told to "fuck right off" and not a single person comes to my defense until, oh! my good friend fryjack2 mentions it, then yeah, it's lonely. 

I'm sorry I wasn't there to support you both. 

[whereswaldo2010]

Jun 25, 2017 22:58:12 GMT -5 rjamz said:

Jun 25, 2017 22:51:12 GMT -5 whereswaldo2010 said:

Lonely for who exactly? fryjack2 ?

Well, fryjack2 wasn't around yesterday because she was at a family function, which I believe she mentioned in the thread. And don't you fucking dare ever accuse me of or even imply my not supporting her. She's a longtime friend of mine who knows my stance on these issues, her family, gefilte fish, and so many other things very well. So no, I'm not talking about her. I'm talking about the anti-semitic bullshit that's been piled on and the utter dismissal of the Jewish experience. When I'm told to "fuck right off" and not a single person comes to my defense until, oh! my good friend fryjack2 mentions it, then yeah, it's lonely. 

Ok well it looks like your friend feels a little unsupported and not listened to in that thread, but keep on keeping on.

Anyway, I'm pretty done with that thread so you're welcome back to your safe space in case you felt somehow attacked by my disagreeing with you. I'm still glad that the real world is more open minded and progressive on topics of Israel and Palestine than this board is.

[KateAggie]

Honestly, I don't even know what to say. I've been reading, supporting posts I agree with. I don't know what to say to someone who doesn't want to understand the history of oppression of the Jewish people. I'm flat out stunned by the comments that completely dismiss that history and the individual experiences of our Jewish posters. And I also want to say that I appreciate fryjack's contributions, and that she hasn't dismissed the experiences of others. It's hard to be a lone poster and not let hurt and anger lead the way.

[rjamz]

Jun 25, 2017 23:05:29 GMT -5 whereswaldo2010 said:

Jun 25, 2017 22:58:12 GMT -5 rjamz said:

Well, fryjack2 wasn't around yesterday because she was at a family function, which I believe she mentioned in the thread. And don't you fucking dare ever accuse me of or even imply my not supporting her. She's a longtime friend of mine who knows my stance on these issues, her family, gefilte fish, and so many other things very well. So no, I'm not talking about her. I'm talking about the anti-semitic bullshit that's been piled on and the utter dismissal of the Jewish experience. When I'm told to "fuck right off" and not a single person comes to my defense until, oh! my good friend fryjack2 mentions it, then yeah, it's lonely. 

Ok well it looks like your friend feels a little unsupported and not listened to in that thread, but keep on keeping on.

Anyway, I'm pretty done with that thread so you're welcome back to your safe space in case you felt somehow attacked by my disagreeing with you. I'm still glad that the real world is more open minded and progressive on topics of Israel and Palestine than this board is.

The thing is, I think if you were to actually read my views on the Israel/Palestine conflict, you would find that we agree in many places, but instead, you assume that the Jews could never see the reality of what is going on there because we want Israel to continue to exist. I don't know what your end goal would be in this conflict, but if it's the destruction of Israel, then we diverge, yes. But I'm not blind. I'm not a jingoistic Zionist zealot who only sees one side of the story. Despite popular belief, most Jews CAN distangle their Jewish identity from Israeli policy. I'm firmly pro-Palestinian because I'm pro-humanity. We have no right to treat people like anything less than human beings. We have no right to build walls. I see that. I know that. 

But I can't have a conversation with people who make assumptions about me and my politics because I'm Jewish and refuse to believe otherwise.

[hopecounts]

Jun 25, 2017 23:05:29 GMT -5 whereswaldo2010 said:

Jun 25, 2017 22:58:12 GMT -5 rjamz said:

Well, fryjack2 wasn't around yesterday because she was at a family function, which I believe she mentioned in the thread. And don't you fucking dare ever accuse me of or even imply my not supporting her. She's a longtime friend of mine who knows my stance on these issues, her family, gefilte fish, and so many other things very well. So no, I'm not talking about her. I'm talking about the anti-semitic bullshit that's been piled on and the utter dismissal of the Jewish experience. When I'm told to "fuck right off" and not a single person comes to my defense until, oh! my good friend fryjack2 mentions it, then yeah, it's lonely. 

Ok well it looks like your friend feels a little unsupported and not listened to in that thread, but keep on keeping on.

Anyway, I'm pretty done with that thread so you're welcome back to your safe space in case you felt somehow attacked by my disagreeing with you. I'm still glad that the real world is more open minded and progressive on topics of Israel and Palestine than this board is.

The world can't even agree to call the death of Armenians 100 yrs ago a genocide because legal words have legal and diplomatic consequences and it's not a road anyone wants to seriously go down.

Are you truly surprised that Jewish posters are sensitive over the use of a hot button legal term that could endanger Israel's diplomatic status? Which could impact its existence?

Palestine should exist and Israel should exist.
Calling Israel an apartheid regime does not realistically further that goal.

[One Girl In All The World]

Jun 25, 2017 23:10:34 GMT -5 KateAggie said:

Honestly, I don't even know what to say. I've been reading, supporting posts I agree with. I don't know what to say to someone who doesn't want to understand the history of oppression of the Jewish people. I'm flat out stunned by the comments that completely dismiss that history and the individual experiences of our Jewish posters. And I also want to say that I appreciate fryjack's contributions, and that she hasn't dismissed the experiences of others. It's hard to be a lone poster and not let hurt and anger lead the way.

I've been writing and deleting posts for a bit now but this is what I wanted to say.

[whereswaldo2010]

Jun 25, 2017 23:15:06 GMT -5 rjamz said:

Jun 25, 2017 23:05:29 GMT -5 whereswaldo2010 said:

Ok well it looks like your friend feels a little unsupported and not listened to in that thread, but keep on keeping on.

Anyway, I'm pretty done with that thread so you're welcome back to your safe space in case you felt somehow attacked by my disagreeing with you. I'm still glad that the real world is more open minded and progressive on topics of Israel and Palestine than this board is.

The thing is, I think if you were to actually read my views on the Israel/Palestine conflict, you would find that we agree in many places, but instead, you assume that the Jews could never see the reality of what is going on there because we want Israel to continue to exist. I don't know what your end goal would be in this conflict, but if it's the destruction of Israel, then we diverge, yes. But I'm not blind. I'm not a jingoistic Zionist zealot who only sees one side of the story. Despite popular belief, most Jews CAN distangle their Jewish identity from Israeli policy. I'm firmly pro-Palestinian because I'm pro-humanity. We have no right to treat people like anything less than human beings. We have no right to build walls. I see that. I know that. 

But I can't have a conversation with people who make assumptions about me and my politics because I'm Jewish and refuse to believe otherwise.

I think you're possibly making assumptions about my beliefs that aren't true. Hey I know many Jews that I call friends who are able to see what's truly happening there. So we would prolly agree on a lot of this. And no where at all did I say or imply that I want to see the destruction of Israel? But these emotions and assumptions are probably why that thread is the cluster that it is.

[rjamz]

Jun 25, 2017 23:27:02 GMT -5 whereswaldo2010 said:

Jun 25, 2017 23:15:06 GMT -5 rjamz said:

The thing is, I think if you were to actually read my views on the Israel/Palestine conflict, you would find that we agree in many places, but instead, you assume that the Jews could never see the reality of what is going on there because we want Israel to continue to exist. I don't know what your end goal would be in this conflict, but if it's the destruction of Israel, then we diverge, yes. But I'm not blind. I'm not a jingoistic Zionist zealot who only sees one side of the story. Despite popular belief, most Jews CAN distangle their Jewish identity from Israeli policy. I'm firmly pro-Palestinian because I'm pro-humanity. We have no right to treat people like anything less than human beings. We have no right to build walls. I see that. I know that. 

But I can't have a conversation with people who make assumptions about me and my politics because I'm Jewish and refuse to believe otherwise.

I think you're possibly making assumptions about my beliefs that aren't true. Hey I know many Jews that I call friends who are able to see what's truly happening there. So we would prolly agree on a lot of this. And no where at all did I say or imply that I want to see the destruction of Israel? But these emotions and assumptions are probably why that thread is the cluster that it is.

You're right. You never said that. I'm sorry for saying you might believe that without any evidence to support that statement. We're in agreement on the emotions and assumptions thing as well. I can honestly say I've never had a conversation on this topic that hasn't become heated in one way or another.

[MrsAxilla]

Jun 25, 2017 23:54:42 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

I managed to keep up with it until yesterday when people seemd to be engaging civilly.
Then, overight and today while I was away, it seemed to go off the rails, get extremely charged and hateful all around, and too emotional for me to do anything but observe.

It only took a couple of posters with no personal experience with these highly charged issues to swoop in and discount the experiences of those involved and substitute their own biased judgment to derail the whole thing. I was feeling warm fuzzies at one point, but, much like the illusion of safety persecuted minorities experience from time to time, it didn't last long.

[mrsukyankee]

The last I read before going to a quiz night on Sunday was page 3. I just woke up (England), so I missed all the crazy that was happening. I can see at this point that people seem to be starting to come together again (with an exception). As I have a tendency to put my foot in my mouth, I tend to stay out of such threads.

[al320]

When we are told that we cant be taken seriously because we point out that the name of one of our mothers is used in an offensive way i had to leave the post. Prettt sure Jews get to decide whats antisemitic. Hard stop.

The israeli/palestinian issue is complicated and charged and difficult, and im not dismissing that at all, but in that thread it can be separated from the pretty clear antisemitism spread throughout it, that apparently we should ignore because the antisemitic poster has been in a sukkah and worked for jews. The "i have ____ friends" has never held water, we all know that.

[annieblah]

First, I'm sorry I was away because last insaw, 5 pages and now longer.

Second, stop responding to the newbie. I think it's and oldie, too, who slinked away.

Third, I'm thoroufhly grossed out that barcelona girl took it to bunnybean level after being told it was cruel and insulting and bigoted and then called people out for not being allowed to use bigot. It was like the damn twilight zone reading that and I commend all who responded when discussing that tried to get derailed.

Fourth, I need to learn far more about this conflict. I don't know enough and need to learn more.

Finally, love to all who have family there, or ties of any kind. Just love

[annieblah]

I used her name, but if any want me to take it out, please tell me. I'm all for calling out but this is not, and should not, be dictated by me.

[bex]

I was following along with the thread for the first few pages but then I was out of town and when I was on here, not really following along with the longer threads at that point. I'll try to catch up now.

[lyssbobiss, Command, B613]

Because what am I going to add in a thread with a drunk poster and a lot of fuck you's being hurled back and forth? I'm not taking sides - it's clear that it's hugely complicated and both sides have deeply personal stories and experiences. I'm not barging in waving my privilege around, thanks.

[mrhanky]

Jun 26, 2017 7:06:53 GMT -5 lyssbobiss, Command, B613 said:

Because what am I going to add in a thread with a drunk poster and a lot of fuck you's being hurled back and forth? I'm not taking sides - it's clear that it's hugely complicated and both sides have deeply personal stories and experiences. I'm not barging in waving my privilege around, thanks.

Not taking sides on whether barcelonagirl was saying anti-semetic things? Because fryjack never threw a fuck you at anyone that I saw, so she clearly can't be on the other side that you're talking about. And she stated multiple times that she did not think Israel should be called an apartheid state. And this board has repeatedly stated the need for allies to SAY something, because another Jew chiming in saying something is anti-semetic would be dismissed. We do need other voices backing us and calling something out as inappropriate. I'm just catching up this morning, but I was reading the other thread feeling very disheartened at the lack of support (until the last few pages, which I'm guessing occurred after this thread was started).

[lyssbobiss, Command, B613]

Jun 26, 2017 7:28:25 GMT -5 mrhanky said:

Jun 26, 2017 7:06:53 GMT -5 lyssbobiss, Command, B613 said:

Because what am I going to add in a thread with a drunk poster and a lot of fuck you's being hurled back and forth? I'm not taking sides - it's clear that it's hugely complicated and both sides have deeply personal stories and experiences. I'm not barging in waving my privilege around, thanks.

Not taking sides on whether barcelonagirl was saying anti-semetic things? Because fryjack never threw a fuck you at anyone that I saw, so she clearly can't be on the other side that you're talking about. And she stated multiple times that she did not think Israel should be called an apartheid state. And this board has repeatedly stated the need for allies to SAY something, because another Jew chiming in saying something is anti-semetic would be dismissed. We do need other voices backing us and calling something out as inappropriate. I'm just catching up this morning, but I was reading the other thread feeling very disheartened at the lack of support (until the last few pages, which I'm guessing occurred after this thread was started).

No, I wasn't clear - not taking sides on the controversy as a whole. I felt Barcelonagirl was out of line in the last several pages, but she also remarked early on that white people, regardless of religion, don't have a leg to stand on when calling out oppression, so I felt like there wasn't anything constructive to say there.

[CheeringCharm]

Wow that thread took a really ugly turn If people want to debate the situation that exists between Israel and Palestine, can we agree not to use the term apartheid? I think every single poster in that thread is willing to acknowledge that Israel currently engages in oppressive actions that make life very difficult and challenging for Palestinians. But the term apartheid is deliberately provocative and extremely aggressive. When so many posters try to explain why that term is not only factually incorrect but also very hurtful and offensive to see, can we agree to just not use it? We've had this discussion before when Bunnybean deactivated. You can have the debate without using the word.