Ill own up to not sticking up for fryjack. I was so infuriated by being told what should offend me, followed up by "i dont see any antisemitism in this post" by the person spewing the bullshit that i couldnt really see anything else and stepped out of it for a while.
Also, even though im jewish, i have never felt any strong connection to israel and dont know all the nuances of the conflict and didnt want to post anything that seemed like it my be true but may not be.
I just googled Jewish Voices for Peace and then looked at the ADL link under. Wholly contradiction! (And I didn't even know the group existed and I thought the ADL was the be all end all lol)
If Jewish people can't decide if Jewish people are anti-Semitic, I'm going to shut my trap!
If only you'd take your own advice. Instead, you keep coming back to try and get more digs in. Don't like being called anti-Semitic? Stop being anti-Semitic.
again, since this is partially to me....it was only to respond to Barcelona fucking bullshit. That has always been a comment on this board....when someone is bigoted, they get called on it. I didn't make the other comment so I won't speak for it.
And people did. And they are in here. But shaking your finger at people because they were sick or offline or whatnot and didn't respond fast enough to Chucklefuck Charlene is not helping.
and I'll keep saying until she stops spewing hate. Sorrynotsorry
All I've seen from you are "aw shucks, not my finest moment" and "golly, I better shut up." No apologies, no remorse. Take your own advice and shut up. You should be banned for your *multiple* deliberate attacks on Jewish posters.
Of course not all Jewish people agree with each other. They're not a a homogenous monolith. Being all brand new and shocked about their disagreeing and varied opinions is probably anti-Semitic in and of itself.
And you don't get to say "I was totally anti-Semitic yesterday, but see, look, my posts here are fine."
In your own words-- own what you are.
The "own what you are" comment is what really hit a nerve with me. I should have said something when I caught up with that post, but I really couldn't because it brought back So many feelings and experiences that I've had. "Own what you are," I'm human the last time I checked, but that's just one example of how we Jews are seen by a lot of people around us in this country and all the counties where we live and "pass" as long as it's convenient for the masses.
And just one last comment on the other post. You can disagree with a specific policy of Israel and still be pro-Israel, just like you can disagree with any policy of the US and still be pro-US. It's not a hard concept.
If I was reading that mess right, she was calling a Jewish poster an oppressor because Israel has oppressive policy. Conflating individual Jewish people, and AMERICAN Jewish people to boot, with Israel is anti-Semitic. Making individual Jewish people answer for the sins of Israel's government is anti-Semitic. It's a variation on "all look same." wtf.
I just got back home late last night after a long weekend out of town and figured I wouldn't need to weigh in because SURELY barcelonagirl would have taken the opportunity to STFU by now.
But, apparently not. So I'll add to the chorus of shut the fuck up and that your anti-Semitism isn't welcome here.
As for the broader topic, it is such a complicated issue and my problem is that often in these conversations (not just here) Israel (and Jews by extension) ends up bearing the brunt of the blame because they are currently bigger and stronger and the occupying force but it ignores all the bad behavior that led us to this point in that area of the world and no one's hands are clean, including all of the colonizing countries that helped create the mess. It's difficult to address the immediate issues without also acknowledging the history involved but it is also incredibly difficult to get to a point of peace in the current situation. I firmly believe it is necesssry for Israel to exist and for it to maintain a Jewish majority government. I think the best situation would be a two state solution but I also don't think the current situation makes that very easy and the countries surrounding Israel have exacerbated the situation from the beginning. MH's best friend from college is Palestinian (born in America) and his wife is Palestinian (born there) and they both have family there. From conversations with them I know they want peace and don't hate Israel or Jews but unfortunately I think people in power (and not just Palestinians or Israelis) have over the years used both sides for their own ends. And really I think that's probably the majority of people on both sides of this issue - wanting peace and not hating the other side. It's the external issues and people in power who keep both sides in this untenable situation.
And people did. And they are in here. But shaking your finger at people because they were sick or offline or whatnot and didn't respond fast enough to Chucklefuck Charlene is not helping.
and I'll keep saying until she stops spewing hate. Sorrynotsorry
Is this really the direction you want to take this? Just asking.
I see this thread has moved on but I'll respond anyway.
It's hard for me to rattle off ground rules off the top of my head. But I know that none of the articles posted in the other OP were actual news sources; they were from opinion sites. I think if someone came in with an article from The Forward or Ha'aretz or Al Jazeera or the BBC, it would be much easier to have a discussion grounded in facts and neutral language.
We've been careful as a board not to post things anymore from, say, Occupy Democrats because even though we may agree we KNOW it's not a legitimate news source. And the same is helpful here.
If someone comes in posting articles that effectively amount to, this blog discovered that some famous Israeli said XYZ about Hamas on social media ... how do you think that's going to go down except to put people on the defensive? What nuanced policy discussion could spring out of that? But even despite all that ... I think there was some good discussion in that thread. I personally learned something from the BLM discussion toward the end, which was sensitive but (from what I saw) handled well.
All the bullshit that transpired was not because someone unknowingly posted something that hurt someone else. Just like this discussion was going well until someone came in and threw a grenade in here.
Yes, but alas she was a complete cowardly dumb ass all around. So, I wouldn't expect any less. For better or worse, show their true colors here day in, and day out. So, I believe them instead of hoping for the best.
Hope isn't a strategy.
You said you wanted to vote for someone who looked like you and thought like you. I know that you identify more strongly with being black than being a woman, so I took that to mean black and for thoughts, generally Republican. I have never thought that Ben Carson (or Tim Scott) agree with you on everything. The only way for you to vote for someone who thinks exactly like you is for you to run yourself, and then vote for yourself. Which you should do - you'd be better than 90% of the people out there, both Dems and Republicans.
I was trying to make a point that for all of your complaining about how awful the Dems are with race (which they are), it seems hypocritical to then go and support Republicans. I mentioned two nationally-recognized Black Republicans who may be on the Presidential ballot soon. I was not saying that you thought the exact same as them.
This board goes on and on about how anyone supporting Republicans is supporting racism, and we shouldn't leave it at "you didn't support Trump, then that's fine." I snapped because I got annoyed at someone supporting Republicans (they aren't that much better in CA - see Darrell Issa) constantly shitting on Dems, who are at least making some progress. I snap every now and again, and I apologize for being snarky, but that is not automatically racist because it's directed towards a black woman.
Now I see everyone gaslighting the Jewish posters here. I agree with annieblah , the call out here was very different (not as strong and thorough). I get why they didn't feel supported - they weren't.
I just got caught up reading these threads. I honestly don't feel as if I can add anything to discussions such as this because I'm not well versed in the subject at hand. I have been reading and educating myself more so I don't have to have my head in the sand.
I will say that when posts take a turn and it's been days later, I sometimes feel as if just adding something is meaningless.
I will echo what most said above in that if a poster says that something is offensive to them, then it should be addressed and stopped.
I just googled Jewish Voices for Peace and then looked at the ADL link under. Wholly contradiction! (And I didn't even know the group existed and I thought the ADL was the be all end all lol)
If Jewish people can't decide if Jewish people are anti-Semitic, I'm going to shut my trap!
You need to stop. This is basically like saying all black people have to have the same opinions on every subject. Come on now.
agreed. also, it's extremely pathetic that everything has to be redefined in the context of "black people" for barcelonagirl to "get it." go away!
I was called into this thread by fryjack2. Did anyone read her post or address her concerns?
Or would you much rather fight with me?
I did. I tried to bring her comments about her family back up because it felt like her feelings were sort of given a head pat and then forgotten.
but, I didn't intentionally try to hurt posters on this board. I was insensitive to their feelings, and I made sure to directly apologize to them because who the fuck is proud of intentionally hurting other posters who are sharing their experiences?? the whole point of that thread was to better understand what both sides were going through, not to troll them in a deeply painful way.
you need to stop. a few times throughout the thread I thought I understood where you were going (not that I agreed with your approach) and then you threw out hateful statements and belligerently lashed out at every person in there.
I think you did far more harm to fryjack2 's points than help. you need to stop posting in here unless it is a sincere apology. but don't expect any forgiveness.
enough is enough. log out, girl.
I think this is a great point. We can be wrong and insensitive without intentionally hurting someone, and also know when to step back and apologize.
And damnit @littlemoxie - why? Why do you come back here for @krikette? SHE WAS NOT IN THE WRONG - YOU WERE.
Yes, but alas she was a complete cowardly dumb ass all around. So, I wouldn't expect any less. For better or worse, show their true colors here day in, and day out. So, I believe them instead of hoping for the best.
Hope isn't a strategy.
You said you wanted to vote for someone who looked like you and thought like you. I know that you identify more strongly with being black than being a woman, so I took that to mean black and for thoughts, generally Republican. I have never thought that Ben Carson (or Tim Scott) agree with you on everything. The only way for you to vote for someone who thinks exactly like you is for you to run yourself, and then vote for yourself. Which you should do - you'd be better than 90% of the people out there, both Dems and Republicans.
I was trying to make a point that for all of your complaining about how awful the Dems are with race (which they are), it seems hypocritical to then go and support Republicans. I mentioned two nationally-recognized Black Republicans who may be on the Presidential ballot soon. I was not saying that you thought the exact same as them.
This board goes on and on about how anyone supporting Republicans is supporting racism, and we shouldn't leave it at "you didn't support Trump, then that's fine." I snapped because I got annoyed at someone supporting Republicans (they aren't that much better in CA - see Darrell Issa) constantly shitting on Dems, who are at least making some progress. I snap every now and again, and I apologize for being snarky, but that is not automatically racist because it's directed towards a black woman.
Now I see everyone gaslighting the Jewish posters here. I agree with annieblah, the call out here was very different (not as strong and thorough). I get why they didn't feel supported - they weren't.
Peace out again.
Are you seriously trying to come for Kirkette again? GTFO. You are not our ally and having you come in pretending to support us while spewing this shit at WOC is the opposite of supporting Jewish posters.
Post by claudiajean on Jun 27, 2017 12:25:50 GMT -5
Instead of pointing just out the fallacies in LittleMoxie's post (because we've been there, done that), can we take a moment to laugh at the fact that she posted immediately when mentioned? Like, she's just lurking in the shadows of the message board waiting for her name to be said so she can return.
I mean, dang. At least have the dignity to wait a few hours to make your response so it's not quite so obvious.
@littlemoxie just because @kirkette is opposed to classic feminism doesn't mean she identifies as a woman any less than she does being black. What she rejects is the idea of singing kumbaya with a bunch of people who go all out for one part of her identity but say fuck off (ETA: or not even fuck off but pretending to care when evidence points elsewhere) when it comes to supporting another part of her identity, especially when that other part of her identity is perceived in a way that threatens her and her family's safety way more pervasively than said womanhood.
I managed to keep up with it until yesterday when people seemd to be engaging civilly. Then, overight and today while I was away, it seemed to go off the rails, get extremely charged and hateful all around, and too emotional for me to do anything but observe.
Except from me, the one actual Palestinian poster.
It seems that MY voice was lost for pages. And my very civil responses to fucked up comments made towards me and Palestinians got lost in all the fuckery being typed by someone who was trying to be supportive in a shitty way.
Barcelona was being obtuse and anti-semetic and trolling on purpose. Yet people kept engaging with her, knowing she was not going to let up and they wouldn't be able to change her mind.
While I can understand the desire and need to address her, it's a damn shame.
The anti-Palestinian sentiment I felt in that thread started on PAGE ONE from rvan0905 . Followed by posts from @ajl and @neener. They have all apologized, and I respect that because it allows for more dialogue, but it goes to show how this topic is never unbiased or free from emotion.
I won't copy and paste the text exerts from the thread but the posts I'm talking about and my responses to them can be found on pages 1, 4, 6, 7, and 8.
and I'll keep saying until she stops spewing hate. Sorrynotsorry
Why the FUCK do I need to justify to you why I could not and/or was not able to participate in this thread at the time that was convenient for you? Please explain?
This is a huge topic and not one where I was able to jump into being that my sister was oh, ya know, giving birth and all! Is that ok with you?
Go sit down and shut up. And now does everyone's reasoning need to be cleared by you as well? Jesus, enough of your shit already.
again, people have lives. We all do. But damn if the response afyer people came back on Monday wasn't slow so to BARCELONA. Jesus fuck all. Why would I care whrn you responded. It went beyond the when.
And since I have to deal with something for my deceased BIL, I'll have to be back to this later. Again, it was not the when, it was if you responded, was the antisemitic crap called out. It was different and I understand the not feeling supported. Now, if that wasn't clear in my many posts, I apologize, but I thought with all of them, it was because I obv can't say you should be in this pool all the time.that's ludicrous
holy shit. ...people responded but not to her bullshit. This is the issue. Not the damn timestamp. Damn
And neither did you. Yet you're in here finger wagging.
huh? I most definitely dI'd my best to call her out on it. She already said she wouldn't listen to the call, but I did my best to address that point many times.
I managed to keep up with it until yesterday when people seemd to be engaging civilly. Then, overight and today while I was away, it seemed to go off the rails, get extremely charged and hateful all around, and too emotional for me to do anything but observe.
Except from me, the one actual Palestinian poster.
It seems that MY voice was lost for pages. And my very civil responses to fucked up comments made towards me and Palestinians got lost in all the fuckery being typed by someone who was trying to be supportive in a shitty way.
Barcelona was being obtuse and anti-semetic and trolling on purpose. Yet people kept engaging with her, knowing she was not going to let up and they wouldn't be able to change her mind.
While I can understand the desire and need to address her, it's a damn shame.
The anti-Palestinian sentiment I felt in that thread started on PAGE ONE from rvan0905 . Followed by posts from @ajl and @neener. They have all apologized, and I respect that because it allows for more dialogue, but it goes to show how this topic is never unbiased or free from emotion.
I won't copy and paste the text exerts from the thread but the posts I'm talking about and my responses to them can be found on pages 1, 4, 6, 7, and 8.
The new thread posted has started to turn in a productive fashion and I think there are questions being asked that you may have important insight into, if you feel up to sharing/participating again. I think it was really unfortunate that the other thread got derailed and your contributions were lost along the way.
Post by sofamonkey on Jun 27, 2017 16:05:49 GMT -5
LOFL that kirkette wanting to vote for someone that looks like her = Ben Carson. No. Kirkette doesn't look like a dumbass fool. Little Moxie, you're just saying all black people look alike then? Because fuck that noise.
Shit, I think most of wishes we could vote for someone that looked like Kirkette. That would be amazing. A young Aunt Maxine? Yes please!