Michelle Obama called Weinstein a "wonderful human being" and Malia interned with his production company, didn't she? I kind of hope his behavior was hidden better than it seems vs MO and BO turning a blind eye if they knew.
Yikes I read that Malia interned there but not that she said this.
She said that and called him a "good friend" in a WH speech in 2013. From what people said here, it sounds like this has been know about him for a long time?
I don't think it is a matter of holding Meryl, or any woman, accountable for HW actions - but it seems pretty disingenuous to act brand new when the rumors have been around forever.
I mean, I think it is gross that people still willing work with Woody Allen too. I don't think they are as bad as he is, but I do feel like knowing what someone is or what they do, and turning a blind eye to it because they are hot shit is pretty disappointing.
Yikes I read that Malia interned there but not that she said this.
She said that and called him a "good friend" in a WH speech in 2013. From what people said here, it sounds like this has been know about him for a long time?
As far as this ^ goes, when the First daughter goes to work somewhere, you would assume the Secret Service runs a background check yes? I wonder if the various settlements he made over the years woud turn up in that kind of check?
Yikes I read that Malia interned there but not that she said this.
She said that and called him a "good friend" in a WH speech in 2013. From what people said here, it sounds like this has been know about him for a long time?
The rumors have been circling for years but no one really spoke out (to my knowledge). He was enough of a power player that I think most didn't want to, for fear of damaging their careers. Predators know how to maneuver on the down low, keeping everyone who might be in a position to do something about their behavior, in the dark.
Michelle Obama called Weinstein a "wonderful human being" and Malia interned with his production company, didn't she? I kind of hope his behavior was hidden better than it seems vs MO and BO turning a blind eye if they knew.
I know. It seems crazy that they would "let" their daughter intern there knowing the rumor. But I also find it hard to believe that one of the most celebrity connected presidents would not have been given a heads up about this. The world can be such a depressing place.
I think open secret as in mentions in gossip sites and whispers aren't likely to reach powerful folks that are outside the industry. I just don't. Harvey preyed on people with less power while kissing up to others more powerful and donating to causes, and I'm sure many people were willing to cast doubt on anything that might come up if it did. That's just how it usually goes when powerful people are involved. People also will deny if they have personal connections with someone that they are capable of doing horrible things because they've never experienced it. Happens all the time.
This twitter thread from a TV writer offers a different perspective on the Meryl stuff.
And this response makes a good point. Once again women (Hillary, Meryl) are being held responsible for a man's egregious behavior.
How are they being held accountable for his actions? They're being held accountable for their own - if they knew and didn't say anything/continued to work with him/laud him as a great producer, etc. etc. Mery Streep apparently referred to him as God in a speech recently. I'm sure she was joking but still. If you continue to work with someone who you know to be a sexual predator because he makes you a lot of money or is extremely power, does that make you complicit in those women's pain in some way?*
We say the same things on here about actors of both sexes who work with Woody Allen and Roman Polanski. There's no way you can't know about those two stories. If you choose to work with them anyway...
*Incidently, Rose McGowan says yes. On Thursday she tweeted "Anyone who does business with __ is complicit. And deep down you know you are even dirtier. Cleanse yourselves "
A day later, she tweeted "Ladies of Hollywood your silence is deafening." "This excludes #Patricia #Amber #lena #Brie Get brave" "Yes ladies of Hollywood where are you?"
Post by CheeringCharm on Oct 9, 2017 15:26:06 GMT -5
The fact that people will ignore sexual harassment because the perpetrator is powerful/can give you things (money, jobs) is what enables him to continue.
I think it's naive to think that people were privy to info about Harvey if they worked with him. Especially people who probably avoid gossip sites like the plague and ignore it and are conditioned to ignore it because they know all about salacious gossip that isn't true and about them.
Hasn't Jennifer Lawrence done Weinstein movies? Do you think Harvey harassed her? Or was he respectful? He knew who to target. And by knowing who to target he also knew that not harassing certain women would help hide what he did do. People like this manipulate and are good at it. That's why they often aren't outed until years down the road.
I think it's naive to think that people were privy to info about Harvey if they worked with him. Especially people who probably avoid gossip sites like the plague and ignore it and are conditioned to ignore it because they know all about salacious gossip that isn't true and about them.
Hasn't Jennifer Lawrence done Weinstein movies? Do you think Harvey harassed her? Or was he respectful? He knew who to target. And by knowing who to target he also knew that not harassing certain women would help hide what he did do. People like this manipulate and are good at it. That's why they often aren't outed until years down the road.
Probably not. But if people like Kim Masters of The Hollywood Reporter and Rebecca Traister of NYMag and the New Yorker say that they have literally been hearing rumors about this and waiting almost two decades for someone (Ashley Judd) to be willing to go on record to break this story, how is it possible that people like Meryl Streep and JLaw didn't know? People talk. What about their managers and agents? What did they say to them about working with Weinstein? (tangentially related but if those people knew and still sent young women to meet with him in hotel rooms, they should be held complicit).
When the blind items started coming out about who raped Rose McGowan and who ruined Gretchen Mol's career, how did they not hear those rumors? Then you have stars like Emma Thompson who told stories about him bullying coworkers. I just find that very hard to believe that they never hear a whisper of any of this. I've been reading speculation about it for a long time. And I'm the most unconnected person you could find, lol.
eta: Kim Masters kind of throws Nicole Kidman under the bus here.
I think it's naive to think that people were privy to info about Harvey if they worked with him. Especially people who probably avoid gossip sites like the plague and ignore it and are conditioned to ignore it because they know all about salacious gossip that isn't true and about them.
Hasn't Jennifer Lawrence done Weinstein movies? Do you think Harvey harassed her? Or was he respectful? He knew who to target. And by knowing who to target he also knew that not harassing certain women would help hide what he did do. People like this manipulate and are good at it. That's why they often aren't outed until years down the road.
Probably not. But if people like Kim Masters of The Hollywood Reporter and Rebecca Traister of NYMag and the New Yorker say that they have literally been hearing rumors about this and waiting almost two decades for someone (Ashley Judd) to be willing to go on record to break this story, how is it possible that people like Meryl Streep and JLaw didn't know? People talk. What about their managers and agents? What did they say to them about working with Weinstein? (tangentially related but if those people knew and still sent young women to meet with him in hotel rooms, they should be held complicit).
When the blind items started coming out about who raped Rose McGowan and who ruined Gretchen Mol's career, how did they not hear those rumors? Then you have stars like Emma Thompson who told stories about him bullying coworkers. I just find that very hard to believe that they never hear a whisper of any of this. I've been reading speculation about it for a long time. And I'm the most unconnected person you could find, lol.
eta: Kim Masters kind of throws Nicole Kidman under the bus here.
Maybe they did. I have no idea. I just think it's really easy to blame them when you're talking about someone who knew exactly what he was doing in how he was choosing his victims. There were probably a hundred or more people who probably actively shielded him vs people who maybe dismissed rumors or thought things were untrue because of their own interactions, never mind whatever power differential may have existed. Women in Hollywood, even Meryl and Nicole Kidman and others can struggle to get good parts at various times in their lives. It's also not like he's the first or the casting couch isn't something that's constantly whispered about.
And I think there's a wide gulf between him telling someone they are fat and need to go on a diet and ET stepping in and his shower and hotel room harassment. I bet being told you're fat by a producer happens 10x per day in hollywood if not more.
Maybe they knew. Maybe they didn't. I just think he's likely a master manipulator who chose his victims carefully and made it easy for people to choose denial. I also think there are way guiltiar parties than other actresses.
If people should act on rumor alone* there would be many men who would be just as privy to these rumors as any women in Hollywood. Why didn't they do or say something? Why aren't they being called out by name?
*the main problem is that he was never called out by name, which allows people to ignore/dismiss the accusations as pure rumor
Probably not. But if people like Kim Masters of The Hollywood Reporter and Rebecca Traister of NYMag and the New Yorker say that they have literally been hearing rumors about this and waiting almost two decades for someone (Ashley Judd) to be willing to go on record to break this story, how is it possible that people like Meryl Streep and JLaw didn't know? People talk. What about their managers and agents? What did they say to them about working with Weinstein? (tangentially related but if those people knew and still sent young women to meet with him in hotel rooms, they should be held complicit).
When the blind items started coming out about who raped Rose McGowan and who ruined Gretchen Mol's career, how did they not hear those rumors? Then you have stars like Emma Thompson who told stories about him bullying coworkers. I just find that very hard to believe that they never hear a whisper of any of this. I've been reading speculation about it for a long time. And I'm the most unconnected person you could find, lol.
eta: Kim Masters kind of throws Nicole Kidman under the bus here.
Maybe they did. I have no idea. I just think it's really easy to blame them when you're talking about someone who knew exactly what he was doing in how he was choosing his victims. There were probably a hundred or more people who probably actively shielded him vs people who maybe dismissed rumors or thought things were untrue because of their own interactions, never mind whatever power differential may have existed. Women in Hollywood, even Meryl and Nicole Kidman and others can struggle to get good parts at various times in their lives. It's also not like he's the first or the casting couch isn't something that's constantly whispered about.
And I think there's a wide gulf between him telling someone they are fat and need to go on a diet and ET stepping in and his shower and hotel room harassment. I bet being told you're fat by a producer happens 10x per day in hollywood if not more.
Maybe they knew. Maybe they didn't. I just think he's likely a master manipulator who chose his victims carefully and made it easy for people to choose denial. I also think there are way guiltiar parties than other actresses.
True. They're easy targets because they're famous and in Meryl's case because she spoke up and tried to defend herself by pretending like she's brand new which is ridiculous. If she had just said he's disgusting and left it at that, she probably wouldn't be getting as much bad press today. What's scummier imo than wondering who heard the rumors is which actress willingly slept with him for parts - I feel really bad for them that they're being dragged through the mud like that. I think there are more stories to come though which will name names and properly shame his enablers. Roman Farrow is supposedly writing a piece for the New Yorker on this topic.
Post by CheeringCharm on Oct 9, 2017 15:59:48 GMT -5
And I don't think people are blaming Meryl Streep and the other Miramax actresses for, like, not telling the NYT that they heard rumors about this or that or going to the police. But more like, if you kept hearing these bad stories about this one dude (not just the sexual harassment stuff - there are lots of insane stories about HW floating around, many of which are on the record), why keep working for him?
Post by CheeringCharm on Oct 9, 2017 16:11:29 GMT -5
Wow go Glenn Close! This is how to walk that line between being honest and believable and still denouncing him and the industry that enabled him.
"I’m sitting here, deeply upset, acknowledging to myself that, yes, for many years, I have been aware of the vague rumors that Harvey Weinstein had a pattern of behaving inappropriately around women. Harvey has always been decent to me, but now that the rumors are being substantiated, I feel angry and darkly sad.
I’m angry, not just at him and the conspiracy of silence around his actions, but also that the “casting couch” phenomenon, so to speak, is still a reality in our business and in the world: the horrible pressure, the awful expectation put on a woman when a powerful, egotistical, entitled bully expects sexual favors in exchange for a job.
Ours is an industry in which very few actors are indispensable and women are cast in far fewer roles than men, so the stakes are higher for women and make them more vulnerable to the manipulations of a predator. I applaud the monumental courage of the women who have spoken up. I hope that their stories and the reportage that gave them their voices represents a tipping point, that more stories will be told and that change will follow.
The changes must be both institutional and personal. Men and women, in positions of power, must create a work environment in which people, whose jobs depend on them, feel safe to report threatening and inappropriate behavior, like that reported in the Times. No one should be coerced into trading personal dignity for professional success. I feel the time is long and tragically overdue for all of us in the industry, women and men, to unite — calmly and dispassionately — and create a new culture of respect, equality and empowerment, where bullies and their enablers are no longer allowed to prosper."
Everyone in the industry knew. Meryl spoke out in support of Polanski so she isn't shit, sorry. People are still working with Woody Allen. Casey Afflek won an Oscar. This. Is. Hollywood.
None of this type of behavior should ever come as a surprise to women actors. The casting couch phenomenon never went away, will never go away, and will continue as long as hyper-A-list women and men actors continue praise the work of the men who perpetuate this culture and the men who help sweep it under the rug remain safe in the "good ol' boys" network.
I don't disbelieve hyper-A-listers like Meryl Streep saying that she had no idea because I think she didn't want to believe it and to believe it was to kiss her paycheck good bye. Also none of this harassment is happening at this point to her or Glenn Close or Cate Blanchett or Julia Roberts, etc. It's happening to the women who want to break into the business. It's happening to the women who want to become Meryl Streep, or want to be Patty Jenkins, or want to be Ava Duvernay. It's happening to the women who have little power and no voice.
Men in power have always and will always pray on women with less power as long as women with power, like Meryl Streep, continue to deny that this culture and behavior continues.
None of this type of behavior should ever come as a surprise to women actors. The casting couch phenomenon never went away, will never go away, and will continue as long as hyper-A-list women and men actors continue praise the work of the men who perpetuate this culture and the men who help sweep it under the rug remain safe in the "good ol' boys" network.
I don't disbelieve hyper-A-listers like Meryl Streep saying that she had no idea because I think she didn't want to believe it and to believe it was to kiss her paycheck good bye. Also none of this harassment is happening at this point to her or Glenn Close or Cate Blanchett or Julia Roberts, etc. It's happening to the women who want to break into the business. It's happening to the women who want to become Meryl Streep, or want to be Patty Jenkins, or want to be Ava Duvernay. It's happening to the women who have little power and no voice.
Men in power have always and will always pray on women with less power as long as women with power, like Meryl Streep, continue to deny that this culture and behavior continues.
Yup. Jessica Chastain tweeted last night that she was warned to avoid him from the very beginning of her career. Everyone knew and people talked.
I know Lena Dunham is not popular on here (for good reasons) but she wrote a piece for the NYT on this that is really good. She too heard the rumors and believed them yet worked with him anyway to further her own interests and she knows that is on her. She calls on everyone to examine their own behavior but especially the men, as they are not in the same lose-lose position as the women and can help support them better because of that.
"Men of Hollywood, what are you sorry for? What will you refuse to accept anymore? What will you say to fill the void and change the standard? Are you afraid because you heard the whisperings but accepted a role or a position on a host committee or a glass of Champagne and a pat on the back? Are you embarrassed because you’re in a photo with him smiling broadly or because he gave money to your organization or introduced you to your girlfriend or earned you your Oscar nomination? Are you operating under the assumption that this is very sad but that it is not your problem?
It is, unfortunately, all of our problems. It is the problem of the agents who sent their clients to meet with a man they knew was a predator, who shuffled them onto his sets. It is the problem of producers who turned a blind eye. It is the problem of actors who heard whispers but walked back to their trailers to play fantasy football. It is the problem of industry media that would not report their findings because they feared losing their place in Harvey Weinstein’s good graces. It is not, as some have suggested, the problem of the women who are afraid to come forward with their own stories or who settled financially with Mr. Weinstein.
Hollywood’s silence, particularly that of men who worked closely with Mr. Weinstein, only reinforces the culture that keeps women from speaking. When we stay silent, we gag the victims. When we stay silent, we condone behavior that none of us could possibly believe is O.K. (unless you do). When we stay silent, we stay on the same path that led us here. Making noise is making change. Making change is why we tell stories. We don’t want to have to tell stories like this one again and again. Speak louder."
Post by CheeringCharm on Oct 10, 2017 7:02:45 GMT -5
George Clooney gave a good interview in which he distinguishes between what he heard and what he saw while still condemning Weinstein, including the abuse of power that occurs with casting couch situations.
I’ve heard rumors, and the rumors in general started back in the ’90s, and they were that certain actresses had slept with Harvey to get a role. It seemed like a way to smear the actresses and demean them by saying that they didn’t get the jobs based on their talent, so I took those rumors with a grain of salt. But the other part of this, the part we’re hearing now about eight women being paid off, I didn’t hear anything about that and I don’t know anyone that did. That’s a whole other level and there’s no way you can reconcile that. There’s nothing to say except that it’s indefensible.
A lot of people are doing the “you had to know” thing right now, and yes, if you’re asking if I knew that someone who was very powerful had a tendency to hit on young, beautiful women, sure. But I had no idea that it had gone to the level of having to pay off eight women for their silence, and that these women were threatened and victimized. I’ve been talking with a lot of people about this, and I don’t know many people who knew of that.
. . . A good bunch of people that I know would say, “Yeah, Harvey’s a dog” or “Harvey’s chasing girls,” but again, this is a very different kind of thing. This is harassment on a very high level. And there’s an argument that everyone is complicit in it. I suppose the argument would be that it’s not just about Hollywood, but about all of us—that every time you see someone using their power and influence to take advantage of someone without power and influence and you don’t speak up, you’re complicit. And there’s no question about that.
George makes a good point about what rumors were around and how they were presented. Most did have a vibe of beautiful but not that talented starlet where it seemed like the onus was put on the young women and Harvey took advantage of that.
The only one I ever saw presented differently were the ones widely believed to be about Gretchen Mol, which were more detailed. At the same time they still had a whiff of look what she was willing to do for a part. But every mention of these women and Harvey had the same thing about how they were identified - next it girl coverage with little reason behind it.
Some are talking, some are staying silent. Some are pretending they knew nothing, others are acknowledging that that they heard the rumors but not the specifics.
A lot of words. Some true. Some worthy of an exaggerated eye roll.
You know what no one is talking about yet? The pictures!
Some taken by the producer. Some taken by the women and sent to him at his request. Some were sent unsolicited.
He has a lot of photos and videos. Some of them were sent to him voluntarily by actresses who are now famous. If even ONE woman tries to file some sort of law suit against him, then all those images could become evidence, and that one actress could wind up taking down dozens/hundreds of other women with her. That’s one reason why they are quiet right now because they are terrified that there is no “right” thing for them to do."
If this is true, then I can see why women are staying quiet right now.
George makes a good point about what rumors were around and how they were presented. Most did have a vibe of beautiful but not that talented starlet where it seemed like the onus was put on the young women and Harvey took advantage of that.
The only one I ever saw presented differently were the ones widely believed to be about Gretchen Mol, which were more detailed. At the same time they still had a whiff of look what she was willing to do for a part. But every mention of these women and Harvey had the same thing about how they were identified - next it girl coverage with little reason behind it.
If there is one thing that comes out of this I hope it's that more people start to condemn men who hit on/seek out relationships with their subordinates at work. It's not just Hollywood that considers this somewhat ok. I know a lot of companies have polices regarding this but a lot still don't and it's just really inappropriate imo. When one person has so much more power than the other, it's very difficult to tell if there is coercion involved or not. Even if the woman in question feels she is doing it completely voluntarily, you have to wonder, would she still sleep with this old gross man if he couldn't give her a part in one of his films? I mean, come on. I thought Clooney did a good job with his interview but he totally blew that part of the story off and I was side eyeing that. He obviously thought Weinstein's relationships with these young starlets were mutually consensual and that's a problem. The whole part about "well everyone knew Harvey was a dog with women" - NO. Not ok. If they work for the company in some capacity or they want to work for it, that means he's their BOSS and that there is some degree of coercion that could potentially be involved. We need to move to a place where it's just not considered ok in any way to romantically go after your subordinates.
Except the "ol' Harvey is a dog" bullshit IS terrible. He's a man of power chasing women. Not looking for a mate, just looking to bone. And where does that leave them? They're all just a lot of prey, fish in a barrel, meaningless and unimportant. Did anyone step up and give them any thought or camaraderie? Nope, they left them to fend for themselves. And that in and of itself is disappointing at best, but mostly disgusting.
Except the "ol' Harvey is a dog" bullshit IS terrible. He's a man of power chasing women. Not looking for a mate, just looking to bone. And where does that leave them? They're all just a lot of prey, fish in a barrel, meaningless and unimportant. Did anyone step up and give them any thought or camaraderie? Nope, they left them to fend for themselves. And that in and of itself is disappointing at best, but mostly disgusting.
Plus the fact that everyone looked the other way makes it that much harder for the young women coming up to avoid the casting couch. If "everyone" knows it goes on and ignores it, how empowered are you really to say no I'm not going to do that for a role? Especially when you know there's a roomful of women with your look willing to say yes. That's NOT to blame any of the women who say yes. That's to blame the man who puts them in that position in the first place.
Don't hit on/try to fuck your subordinates at work. How hard of a rule is that to follow?
I'll be interested to see if Blake Lively says anything. The rumors swirled that she was who Harvey ditched Gretchen Mol to pursue but that she was resisting his advances.
There's plenty of blame to go around but I also think it's important to continue to point out that he chose his targets carefully. Because we are human and we do ignore and live in denial for our own purposes - and part of understanding how to prevent these things is to realize how it happens to begin with and that includes how the perpetrators choose victims.
Also I'm pretty sure the picture rumor/gossip has been around for awhile - specifically with regards to Gretchen Mol.