Watching Leia’s scenes while knowing Carrie Fisher is gone was very eerie. I was not expecting Luke’s ending and am curious to see how Episode 9 plays out with all 3 Han/Luke/Leia gone.
Post by Nightlight on Dec 16, 2017 21:55:41 GMT -5
I got the feeling that someone who really loves animals and may be a vegetarian had influence in writing the script, between the porg guilt, the bantha being milked and the races at Canto Bight. Actually, maybe that person is a pescatarian.
The porg creature design was excellent. They have a classic Star Wars feel. I also really liked the design of the bantha.
Admiral Ackbar is gone. He was one of my favorites.
Watching Leia’s scenes while knowing Carrie Fisher is gone was very eerie. I was not expecting Luke’s ending and am curious to see how Episode 9 plays out with all 3 Han/Luke/Leia gone.
I was thinking they might bring Luke back in the same way they brought back Yoda.
My kid thinks Kylo and Rey are separated twins, a la Luke and Leia, and that they were separated to protect them. I don't buy it, but I like the thought.
I have too, but then why wouldn't either parent (Leia or Han) know about her/mention her/react to her? The whole connection is stronger than the Leia Luke one, but very similar.
And to another point up thread--the books aren't burned, they are in the drawer on MF. They showed them when Fin got the blanket.
Amidala didn't know. eta: I guess she wasn't of the Force or whatever. Still, is it beyond a possibility? I'm just sayin I need another "Luke, I am your father" moment in this set.
Come on. This is bananas. She would know what came out of her vagina/uterus. And Han would be a pretty big monster to hide a baby from Leia. And why would they hide?? There was no more big bad in the universe that would be chasing the babies. They didn’t hide Ben. Rey is not a Skywalker. Gavel!
I was thinking more the metachlorian (I have no idea how to spell that) a la Anakin...so maybe not blood twins, but more Ray is the light to Ben's dark.
Come on. This is bananas. She would know what came out of her vagina/uterus. And Han would be a pretty big monster to hide a baby from Leia. And why would they hide?? There was no more big bad in the universe that would be chasing the babies. They didn’t hide Ben. Rey is not a Skywalker. Gavel!
OHHHHHHHH....right. Because this series doesn't pull ridiculous shit out allllllll the time. Like how would Darth Vader, master of all, not know HE was the father of twins? I don't know, maybe she gave birth completely knocked out. The medical world in these movies isn't exactly...realistic.
Also, I'd like to say again that I am not as into this stuff as other people. I don't CARE if it's realistic or not, because it's, you know, not. It's science fiction. I like epic stories to have fun twists and not be predictable, so I'm trying to guess ways it could be. Let me be in my ridiculousness.
Amidala did meet and name the babies but was not in on the hair-brained baby hiding scheme, as she died before she had the chance to say “....what? You’re hiding the boy on anakin’s home planet and letting him keep the name Skywalker and telling him his father was named Anakin Skywalker? Cool plan, assholes”
TBF, Darth knew Amidala was pregnant. He knew at least 1 baby was born and not lying completely would have helped keep Leia a secret since he had not damned idea she existed/was in the belly the whole time.
- Light speed obliteration of the fleet... that was EPIC. Beautiful.
- When you realize he was freakin' Force-projecting from across galaxies... OMG.
Rey's parentage: My GOD, the vindication at them both acknowledging she came from normal yet awful people. To know that not everyone of major import in the Jedi universe has to be related to Skywalkers or Solos is a gavel for me, TYVM.
Doubtful parts: - Snoke not realizing what Kylo/Ben was about to do. Really?
- I really like Finn, but I feel like his storyline was somewhat wasted. By the end, I was hoping he'd make it all the way into the gun.
- I also feel like I didn't get closure from Luke's statement to Rey, "You didn't even try to resist!" Like does this girl really have an inclination for the dark side?
1. The "silent cut" was freaking epic. I cannot wait to see it in IMAX next week. 2. Did people not realize that Luke was projecting himself? Didn't anyone catch the wink he gave C-3PO? Luke really had no way off the island since his x-wing was underwater. 3. I got into an argument about Rey's parents. Anakin's mom Shmi wasn't anyone special and Anakin was powerful. Why does Rey have to be connected to someone? The Skywalkers have been screwing up the galaxy long enough; maybe the force decided that it needed some new blood! 4. Yeah Snoke was a bit stupid not realizing what was about to happen. He straight up told Kylo that his compassion for Rey makes him weak. 5. I was pissed that Rose saved Finn. I was rooting for him to go out in a blaze of glory. 6. Have you read the TFA novelization? The dark side has reached out to Rey before so that was definitely not her first run in with it.
I talked dh into going today because I wanted to avoid spoilers.
I liked it overall. At times it felt like maybe there were a few too many storylines going on and I didn't like the "oh no, they're dead....just kidding moments." But that was just a small complaint.
I loved the humor, especially Poe at the beginning. Dh did not though. I'm also totally here for the Luke shoulder brush.
I didn't love Rose, which made me sad. I think it was mostly because the casino storyline wasn't my favorite. I also sort of hated her for pushing finn out of the way. I didn't want him to die but I understood what he was doing (dh said, it's like he's Randy Quaid in Independence day during that scene lol)
Dh and I both wanted more Chewie.
The kylo and Rey mind thing made me think of Harry Potter when he and Voldemort are in each other's heads. And the cave made me think of the mirror that shows you what you want.
Seeing Leia made me sad and I really wonder how they'll handle her loss in 9. Also, Oscar said they did the scene where she slaos him 25 times, which makes me laugh.
Also was it my eyes or did the little boy at the end force the broom to his hand? I didn't see his feet move it so it looked like he did.
He did. I gasped! Lol.
Yes! DH and I watched it Thursday night and I didn’t notice, but DH took DS to see it last night and DS caught it (and said it was one of his favorite parts).
I suspect there’s more to the story of Rey’s parents than what Kylo told her. The movies revolve around the Skywalker family and DH thinks they are trying to get away from that but I still think there is some sort of connection. Either is possible and the little boy leans towards the theory that there are lots of future jedi in the universe unrelated to the skywalkers and the stories they hear of the rebels are keeping their hope alive. So many rebels and Jedi have died throughout the movies but the storyline always hinges on the skywalker bloodline.
I don’t care what anyone says, I love Poe. I also appreciated the characters showing poor judgement and the consequences, with the women’s being the heroes. There’s more depth in the characters, some more than others, and there was still a lot of campy humor.
I saw it yesterday morning and am headed back with the family in a few hours, so my thoughts may change after a repeat viewing, but I'm really disappointed that we didn't learn anything substantial about Snoke. He's obviously extremely powerful, and went through some serious shit given his face, and I felt like that deserved at least some exploration. I mean, cut five minutes from the endless Canto Bight scenes to do a flashback or some exposition before you chop him in half. Darth Maul came back (in the cartoons) from a similar injury, but the amount of screentime that was devoted to his super dead-looking face made me think that Johnson really, REALLY wants Snoke to stay canonically dead.
Re: no other villain, though, there's always Hux to consider. He's whiny and awful, but he's totally devoted to the First Order, and hates Kylo Ren. Some kind of a power struggle between them for control over the First Order would be totally appropriate for Episode IX.
And what about the half dozen Jedi apprentices who disappeared with Kylo when he destroyed the Jedi training temple? I didn't imagine Luke saying that, right? What happened to them?
Luke said it. My theory is that they became the knights of ren.
I agree with Queen Mamadala that the canto bight part of the story was really important to understanding what the rebel’s are fighting for and that there’s not always a clearcut good and bad in war. I actually think the island scenes were slower and could have been reduced, but the rest of the movie had so many incredible action scenes, it was truly “Star Wars” with spaceship battles.
I’m not sure why Kylo is keeping Hux around. Doesn’t really jive with me, especially since Kylo basically immediately took over the army stuff. I guess they need him to sneer for one more film.
I don’t hate Hux. I like a good imperial sneer.
Oh, although that does remind me of disliking that whole “we have them on a string” reveal. Why did they have to make that into a mystery? I thought it was going to be that they were secretly tracking a person, or there was a spy. It’s just ship stuff!! No need to be mysterious about that. It doesn’t make it more interesting, it’s still pretty boring.
I think he needs him to help lead the army, for now. Kylo doesn’t seem like the fear instilling power hungry leader that Vader was - too much inexperience and internal conflict. His anger while shooting Luke was so intense though, I think if there was a chance of him giving up the dark side before, it was gone after that.
Yes! DH and I watched it Thursday night and I didn’t notice, but DH took DS to see it last night and DS caught it (and said it was one of his favorite parts).
I suspect there’s more to the story of Rey’s parents than what Kylo told her. The movies revolve around the Skywalker family and DH thinks they are trying to get away from that but I still think there is some sort of connection. Either is possible and the little boy leans towards the theory that there are lots of future jedi in the universe unrelated to the skywalkers and the stories they hear of the rebels are keeping their hope alive. So many rebels and Jedi have died throughout the movies but the storyline always hinges on the skywalker bloodline.
I don’t care what anyone says, I love Poe. I also appreciated the characters showing poor judgement and the consequences, with the women’s being the heroes. There’s more depth in the characters, some more than others, and there was still a lot of campy humor.
Kylo is a Skywalker. While his surname is Solo his grandfather is a Skywalker. He is part of the story. Why do people seem to forget that??? There is no need for Rey to be connected to them because we already have Kylo representing the Skywalker clan. (This topic makes me want to go all Kylo lightsaber tantrum on people because they totally dismiss Kylo's bloodline)
I give this 8.9 out of 10 stars. Would've gotten a 9.2 if the "salt" exposition wasn't so forced.
But I overall really enjoyed it.
Best moments (not in order): - Those opening credits with John Williams' theme. There's nothing quite like it to see the lettering and ride that music through to the pan down through the stars. - The saber toss over the shoulder. - Poe's hold message for Hux. Because that dude deserves all the awkward moments. - Rey literally stretching out her hand and Luke tickling it with a leaf. /dead - Light speed obliteration of the fleet... that was EPIC. Beautiful. - The boy at the end slightly raising his broom in the posture of holding a saber. DH cried right there, because all of us when we were little wanted to join the Rebellion and be a Jedi! - When Leia and Holdo both start to say "May the Force..." That was one of those "oh, Carrie" moments which made me cry. - When Luke strides out of the smoke and flicks his shoulder. Sorry y'all, Imma let him be a badass right there. - When you realize he was freakin' Force-projecting from across galaxies... OMG. - When Yoda reminds Luke that training is not about teaching perfection, but about passing down lessons from failure. - The saber fight with Ben and Rey fighting off the Supreme Leader's guards.
Rey's parentage: My GOD, the vindication at them both acknowledging she came from normal yet awful people. To know that not everyone of major import in the Jedi universe has to be related to Skywalkers or Solos is a gavel for me, TYVM.
Carrie/Leia: I had many moments of connecting that Carrie Fisher is gone and seeing Leia with that same feeling.
Luke and the horizon: I thought they wove that thread beautifully throughout, right to his last gaze at the sunset/sunrise.
ETA: I feel like the newer movies have done a great job of showing dynamics in space, etc. Seeing the blasts hit the shield instead of the ship, dropping into and out of light speed, craft ramping up to take off, etc.
Doubtful parts: - Snoke not realizing what Kylo/Ben was about to do. Really? - I really like Finn, but I feel like his storyline was somewhat wasted. By the end, I was hoping he'd make it all the way into the gun. - The timing/editing of Finn and Rose on their knees awaiting execution... took FOREVER. I felt like I was watching the Bachelor. - I feel like Benicio DelToro's role was like a forced plug-n-play, like when Johnny Depp is eternally cast as characters which are odder than normal. - I also feel like I didn't get closure from Luke's statement to Rey, "You didn't even try to resist!" Like does this girl really have an inclination for the dark side?
Just responding to the dark side stuff. To me, it’s very clear that Rey’s natural inclination is dark AF. I saw it pretty clearly when kylo mentions “the force” during their final TFA battle. Rey looks like she’s calming, but then she opens her eyes and she is actually furious and tries to straight up murder his ass. She’s lonely, she’s fearful, she angry. In the world of old Jedi, huge dark side risk. I think this movie is saying that she and Kylo had similar natural learnings towards dark feelings, but whereas Luke freaked out about this and pushed Kylo darker, rey is going to explore these feelings, fully explore the force, and come out ok and a whole person because of it.
OHHHHHHHH....right. Because this series doesn't pull ridiculous shit out allllllll the time. Like how would Darth Vader, master of all, not know HE was the father of twins? I don't know, maybe she gave birth completely knocked out. The medical world in these movies isn't exactly...realistic.
Also, I'd like to say again that I am not as into this stuff as other people. I don't CARE if it's realistic or not, because it's, you know, not. It's science fiction. I like epic stories to have fun twists and not be predictable, so I'm trying to guess ways it could be. Let me be in my ridiculousness.
Exactly, Darth had NO idea about Leia. None.
He didn’t know about either of them because he was told they all died. Not the same thing. Plus...what plot reason would there be to hide a baby in this universe??? Just drop this. It’s also not the same thing, because the whole I am your father plot, including both Luke and Leia, was not originally plotted. That shit just happened as Lucas went to write each movie on his little shitty legal pad. He wasn’t much a planner. So it doesn’t make sense in the original trilogy either, sure, but now Disney is in charge. They plotted all this shit.
And I don’t see rey as kylos light side force twin, but that’s just my view on it. Because I don’t think she is light side at all. I think she and Kylo are the same-strong, but confused and full of a mix of feelings. Kylo was pushed darker by Luke’s betrayal. Rey is pushed lighter by her own strength in getting control and acceptance of all her feelings, light and dark.
He didn’t know about either of them because he was told they all died. Not the same thing. Plus...what plot reason would there be to hide a baby in this universe??? Just drop this. It’s also not the same thing, because the whole I am your father plot, including both Luke and Leia, was not originally plotted. That shit just happened as Lucas went to write each movie on his little shitty legal pad. He wasn’t much a planner. So it doesn’t make sense in the original trilogy either, sure, but now Disney is in charge. They plotted all this shit.
He was told she died, not the children. So I am not invested, but telling people to drop it is annoying af.
I give this 8.9 out of 10 stars. Would've gotten a 9.2 if the "salt" exposition wasn't so forced.
But I overall really enjoyed it.
Best moments (not in order): - Those opening credits with John Williams' theme. There's nothing quite like it to see the lettering and ride that music through to the pan down through the stars. - The saber toss over the shoulder. - Poe's hold message for Hux. Because that dude deserves all the awkward moments. - Rey literally stretching out her hand and Luke tickling it with a leaf. /dead - Light speed obliteration of the fleet... that was EPIC. Beautiful. - The boy at the end slightly raising his broom in the posture of holding a saber. DH cried right there, because all of us when we were little wanted to join the Rebellion and be a Jedi! - When Leia and Holdo both start to say "May the Force..." That was one of those "oh, Carrie" moments which made me cry. - When Luke strides out of the smoke and flicks his shoulder. Sorry y'all, Imma let him be a badass right there. - When you realize he was freakin' Force-projecting from across galaxies... OMG. - When Yoda reminds Luke that training is not about teaching perfection, but about passing down lessons from failure. - The saber fight with Ben and Rey fighting off the Supreme Leader's guards.
Rey's parentage: My GOD, the vindication at them both acknowledging she came from normal yet awful people. To know that not everyone of major import in the Jedi universe has to be related to Skywalkers or Solos is a gavel for me, TYVM.
Carrie/Leia: I had many moments of connecting that Carrie Fisher is gone and seeing Leia with that same feeling.
Luke and the horizon: I thought they wove that thread beautifully throughout, right to his last gaze at the sunset/sunrise.
ETA: I feel like the newer movies have done a great job of showing dynamics in space, etc. Seeing the blasts hit the shield instead of the ship, dropping into and out of light speed, craft ramping up to take off, etc.
Doubtful parts: - Snoke not realizing what Kylo/Ben was about to do. Really? - I really like Finn, but I feel like his storyline was somewhat wasted. By the end, I was hoping he'd make it all the way into the gun. - The timing/editing of Finn and Rose on their knees awaiting execution... took FOREVER. I felt like I was watching the Bachelor. - I feel like Benicio DelToro's role was like a forced plug-n-play, like when Johnny Depp is eternally cast as characters which are odder than normal. - I also feel like I didn't get closure from Luke's statement to Rey, "You didn't even try to resist!" Like does this girl really have an inclination for the dark side?
Just responding to the dark side stuff. To me, it’s very clear that Rey’s natural inclination is dark AF. I saw it pretty clearly when kylo mentions “the force” during their final TFA battle. Rey looks like she’s calming, but then she opens her eyes and she is actually furious and tries to straight up murder his ass. She’s lonely, she’s fearful, she angry. In the world of old Jedi, huge dark side risk. I think this movie is saying that she and Kylo had similar natural learnings towards dark feelings, but whereas Luke freaked out about this and pushed Kylo darker, rey is going to explore these feelings, fully explore the force, and come out ok and a whole person because of it.
I think that the key to all of this is what happened when she went into the Dark Side cave on the island. Luke is terrified of that place, and totally shuts her down when he sees that she's curious about it. He even tells her that there's something Dark that she "needs," and runs away from her in reaction. All of the Jedi teachings seem to forbid even exploration into Dark Side teachings and associations, as if by looking at them you automatically become a Sith. Rey goes into the cave, though, interacts with whatever is down there, and comes back seemingly the same person she's always been. The thing that she "needs" is knowledge of herself, which the cave answers--she is Rey, and where she came from is either immaterial or irrelevant at this point. She still believes in the light (in the balance), and like Luke she makes the right choice when it really counts. She has darkness in her, but that doesn't mean that it defines her any more than Luke's lightness defined him when he was tempted to attack Ben or when he ran away and consciously ignored his former cause when it needed him the most.
One of the think pieces someone posted upthread mentioned the obvious male/female imagery of the light and dark side representations on the island, and I think that there's something to that. With all of the emphasis on female judgment in this movie, and the ways it is destructively undermined by men who have a very fixed view about what "right" looks like, I don't think that imagery was in any way accidental or unintended. Rey, Leia, Holdo, etc... represent alternate representations of what it means to be a Jedi or a leader. The fixed view of a light/dark dichotomy only works if you think that there is only one correct answer to any problem, and together the three of them subvert that idea at almost every turn.
2. Did people not realize that Luke was projecting himself? Didn't anyone catch the wink he gave C-3PO? Luke really had no way off the island since his x-wing was underwater. 3. I got into an argument about Rey's parents. Anakin's mom Shmi wasn't anyone special and Anakin was powerful. Why does Rey have to be connected to someone? The Skywalkers have been screwing up the galaxy long enough; maybe the force decided that it needed some new blood!
2. My first thought seeing his Xwing was, oh, are we going to revisit the training where the ship gets lifted out of the water? But I think it was intentionally included so viewers would think, aha, he must have used that Xwing
3. THANK YOU. I totally get people wanting to romanticize a connection to beloved characters. But every quasi-relevant Jedi can't be a Skywalker. Is that kid at the end Leia's cousin's niece's son? GAH.
Holdo's final scene was brilliant. The slow pace, b&w, and total silence. It was perfect. The theatre was silent then there was a few quiet gasps.
I loved how they handled Leia, she's always been a point of hope--it lives in her and she inspires it in others. She's literally space mom in this film. And how badass was she with the blaster in the mine?!?!?
I really want to know how they plan to support Kylo having velociraptor level tantrums for three more movies. They gave him more depth in this one but shit. They Kylo/Rey scenes were very well done.
I’ve seen it twice now. I have to be honest and say the first time I saw it, I was disappointed. I absolutely loved it the second time, though! Man, I love Luke!
Post by cuddlyevil on Dec 17, 2017 10:09:08 GMT -5
And the last scenes with Luke were amazing. "See you around kid" *poof* And his death scene was beautiful, the suns of tatooine in the sky as he disappears.
I’m not sure why Kylo is keeping Hux around. Doesn’t really jive with me, especially since Kylo basically immediately took over the army stuff. I guess they need him to sneer for one more film.
I don’t hate Hux. I like a good imperial sneer.
Oh, although that does remind me of disliking that whole “we have them on a string” reveal. Why did they have to make that into a mystery? I thought it was going to be that they were secretly tracking a person, or there was a spy. It’s just ship stuff!! No need to be mysterious about that. It doesn’t make it more interesting, it’s still pretty boring.
I think he needs him to help lead the army, for now. Kylo doesn’t seem like the fear instilling power hungry leader that Vader was - too much inexperience and internal conflict. His anger while shooting Luke was so intense though, I think if there was a chance of him giving up the dark side before, it was gone after that.
Interesting. I interpreted the shooting at Luke as more if a turning point. Well, not the shooting itself, but his reaction after he stopped.
He didn’t know about either of them because he was told they all died. Not the same thing. Plus...what plot reason would there be to hide a baby in this universe??? Just drop this. It’s also not the same thing, because the whole I am your father plot, including both Luke and Leia, was not originally plotted. That shit just happened as Lucas went to write each movie on his little shitty legal pad. He wasn’t much a planner. So it doesn’t make sense in the original trilogy either, sure, but now Disney is in charge. They plotted all this shit.
He was told she died, not the children. So I am not invested, but telling people to drop it is annoying af.
Your old thinking of the whole trilogy is wrong. And, it's Plagueis. That one was bothering me for some reason, lol.
I like that article, for the most part. I agree that they were not afraid to break the conventions, and the theme was definitely out with the old. I disagree that these themes are not rooted in Star Wars. I think it’s a very organic progression of the story, the themes. Only now it’s more rooted in our times as well.
I don’t have old thinking. I called all this stuff about the light and dark coming together. About the old Jedi way from the prequels being a mess. About Luke being a shitty teacher and then running away. I predicted all of that would happen and I was so psyched when it did, because it makes sense.
If rey turns into a hidden leia baby, I will come back and eat my crow. But this is certainly a hill I am 100% prepared to die on.
Post by twilightmv on Dec 17, 2017 10:26:21 GMT -5
And I’m sorry if it sounds like I’m shutting it down. I guess I’ll say, please tell me why the hidden leia baby theory makes sense without saying “but the original didn’t make sense either”. That’s not an argument in my book, because again, none of that was planned from the start.
And I’m sorry if it sounds like I’m shutting it down. I guess I’ll say, please tell me why the hidden leia baby theory makes sense without saying “but the original didn’t make sense either”. That’s not an argument in my book, because again, none of that was planned from the start.
Man, you are seriously against this. I'd like to point out it was my kid who thought it. I said upthread that I didn't buy it, I just liked it. Goodness. People are allowed to have ridiculous theories about fictional universes. Especially people who aren't experts. What you're doing here is the equivalent of me telling my students there's only one way to think about characters in the novels they read, and it's my way because I've read the book ten times. I think it's fine to have fun with stories and characters and all the ways they can exist in our imaginations.