Fake National Emergency Day - AKA Trump Randoms

[cous0226]

I don’t think in the end, the courts won’t side with potus. There was 2 years of evidence of his racist bullshit on tv and twitter and SC still let him go with the Muslim van. They’ll just say he’s potus.

[bowies]

I think he’s going to declare the national emergency tonight. That’s why the networks will carry it.

[mswax]

Actual question: If he declares a national emergency and says he need $5.7 billion for a wall and auxiliary crap, it would presumably have to come from military dollars already committed. Does he have to declare what would get cut to fund the "emergency?" I ask because I wonder how that will work when this all gets held up in the courts for years...

[Velar Fricative]

Jan 8, 2019 7:28:27 GMT -5 bowies said:

I think he’s going to declare the national emergency tonight. That’s why the networks will carry it.

I was reading up on the legalities surrounding such a declaration and while it appears a strong legal fight can and will be had, I have to believe that it will eventually come down to Gorsuch and Kavanaugh and they'll be like, "Of course the POTUS can do anything he wants!!!!" I'm sick to my stomach over this.

[isabel]

Jan 8, 2019 8:13:42 GMT -5 mswax said:

Actual question: If he declares a national emergency and says he need $5.7 billion for a wall and auxiliary crap, it would presumably have to come from military dollars already committed. Does he have to declare what would get cut to fund the "emergency?" I ask because I wonder how that will work when this all gets held up in the courts for years...

Is that how it works? It doesn't have to be approved, but he can basically just take money from wherever to fund his racist ideology? Or does it have to come from the military budget? I've been curious about where the money would actually come from if he follows through on this.

[Velar Fricative]

Jan 8, 2019 9:01:25 GMT -5 isabel said:

Jan 8, 2019 8:13:42 GMT -5 mswax said:

Actual question: If he declares a national emergency and says he need $5.7 billion for a wall and auxiliary crap, it would presumably have to come from military dollars already committed. Does he have to declare what would get cut to fund the "emergency?" I ask because I wonder how that will work when this all gets held up in the courts for years...

Is that how it works? It doesn't have to be approved, but he can basically just take money from wherever to fund his racist ideology? Or does it have to come from the military budget? I've been curious about where the money would actually come from if he follows through on this.

As per Vox:

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/8/18172749/trump-national-emergency-government-shutdown-wall

It seems like military funds would be the most likely source of funds, not that funds *have* to come out of the defense budget. There is also a fund earmarked for processing migrant claims but that only has $20 million. So I think he'll just use a mix of funds to get what he needs.

[isabel]

Jan 8, 2019 9:05:50 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Jan 8, 2019 9:01:25 GMT -5 isabel said:

Is that how it works? It doesn't have to be approved, but he can basically just take money from wherever to fund his racist ideology? Or does it have to come from the military budget? I've been curious about where the money would actually come from if he follows through on this.

As per Vox:

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/8/18172749/trump-national-emergency-government-shutdown-wall

It seems like military funds would be the most likely source of funds, not that funds *have* to come out of the defense budget. There is also a fund earmarked for processing migrant claims but that only has $20 million. So I think he'll just use a mix of funds to get what he needs.

One of the thoughts I had was that he might go into all the various things he'd prefer we didn't have (funding for the arts, education, Medicaid...) and just drain them to use some of those funds for this.

I am equally disturbed by the idea of him using the immigration fund mentioned in the article, even though it doesn't have enough, when it is clearly intended to *AID* migrants instead of building a motherfucking racist-ass wall.

I made a call yesterday to get into therapy. There's a lot of stuff that has happened in the last two years that has contributed to where I am right now, but I truly wonder where I would be from a mental health perspective if Hillary had won. There's no way all of this shit *waves hands around* isn't contributing.

[pixy0stix]

*Moved posts from yesterday's thread to this one.*

[2curlydogs]

I know we like to joke about Seth Abramson threads, but sometimes dude nails it in one

[PatBenatar]

Let's say he does find the funding for this piece of crap wall. What is the likelihood that it even gets built? I assume we're looking at years of lawsuits, red tape, etc. Could the next administration just say nah and be done with it? Is the wall a "law" that would need to be repealed like the ACA?

[ESF]

Jan 8, 2019 9:53:50 GMT -5 2curlydogs said:

I know we like to joke about Seth Abramson threads, but sometimes dude nails it in one

I think McConnell is feeling this too. They are completely unprepared for a world in which Pelosi is their equal and he’s just hiding out in his turtle shell.

[ESF]

Jan 8, 2019 10:12:20 GMT -5 PatBenatar said:

Let's say he does find the funding for this piece of crap wall. What is the likelihood that it even gets built? I assume we're looking at years of lawsuits, red tape, etc. Could the next administration just say nah and be done with it? Is the wall a "law" that would need to be repealed like the ACA?

Maybe there’s a few places were a couple miles get built here and there, but I’d put the odds of a whole wall at about .0001%

There’s no wall law so yes the next administration could abandon it.

[Dumbledork]

If it comes out of military, could it just get buried in their spending and then when Dems try to pull back on it, Rs could spin it as trying to defund the military?

Also if they take wall money from the military, without increasing their budget- fuck. Lower ranking soldiers do not make great money and soldiers trying to train at ranges with no ammo isn’t exactly great either.

[PatBenatar]

Jan 8, 2019 10:22:52 GMT -5 ESF said:

Jan 8, 2019 10:12:20 GMT -5 PatBenatar said:

Let's say he does find the funding for this piece of crap wall. What is the likelihood that it even gets built? I assume we're looking at years of lawsuits, red tape, etc. Could the next administration just say nah and be done with it? Is the wall a "law" that would need to be repealed like the ACA?

Maybe there’s a few places were a couple miles get built here and there, but I’d put the odds of a whole wall at about .0001%

There’s no wall law so yes the next administration could abandon it.

OK good.  Makes it even more ridiculous that he's pushing so hard for it.  Still don't want him to "win" even if his racist monument will never come to fruition.

[kadams767]

Jan 8, 2019 10:22:52 GMT -5 ESF said:

Jan 8, 2019 10:12:20 GMT -5 PatBenatar said:

Let's say he does find the funding for this piece of crap wall. What is the likelihood that it even gets built? I assume we're looking at years of lawsuits, red tape, etc. Could the next administration just say nah and be done with it? Is the wall a "law" that would need to be repealed like the ACA?

Maybe there’s a few places were a couple miles get built here and there, but I’d put the odds of a whole wall at about .0001%

There’s no wall law so yes the next administration could abandon it.

This is a question that I've had too.  Not really a question, actually, as I deal with various government funding contracts for work and know how tedious the process is, more of just one more "how fucking stupid is this man?" stream of consciousness.  Like he's going to get $5 billion for the wall and work will start tomorrow.  Christ.  It would basically just tie up appropriated funds, right?

[sangria]

Forgive if this is stupid (as it may be) but why aren't the democrats, and really any and all sane people everywhere not SCREAMING that $5 billion or whatever trump wants is just about enough to cover the equivalent of a chain link fence? This is what I absolutely can't wrap my brain around- the cost of the type of wall all these people want has got to be what, at least 4 or 5 times that amount?
How are people not understanding that this is 2500 miles of mostly unpopulated desert? You've got to first build the roads to get people and equipment out to very isolated areas, then you are going to need electricity and water run out there also, you need to hire large trucks to transport the materials, then you've got to put money into archaeological surveys and digs to find and potentially preserve any artifacts/fossils/historical items of value, you'll need engineers to draw and design the actual structure, you'll likely need housing for the people working on the actual construction...AND THAT'S JUST TO GET THE FUCKING STUPID THING STARTED. Nevermind, the cost for continued surveillance, upkeep, repairs.

I'm sorry, I'm sure this has all been covered, but OMG I CAN'T ANYMORE. Meanwhile, my veteran, federally employed husband couldn't have a god damn motherfucking 2% pay raise.

FUCK THIS ADMINISTRATION

[kadams767]

Jan 8, 2019 10:40:58 GMT -5 sangria said:

Forgive if this is stupid (as it may be) but why aren't the democrats, and really any and all sane people everywhere not SCREAMING that $5 billion or whatever trump wants is just about enough to cover the equivalent of a chain link fence? This is what I absolutely can't wrap my brain around- the cost of the type of wall all these people want has got to be what, at least 4 or 5 times that amount?
How are people not understanding that this is 2500 miles of mostly unpopulated desert? You've got to first build the roads to get people and equipment out to very isolated areas, then you are going to need electricity and water run out there also, you need to hire large trucks to transport the materials, then you've got to put money into archaeological surveys and digs to find and potentially preserve any artifacts/fossils/historical items of value, you'll need engineers to draw and design the actual structure, you'll likely need housing for the people working on the actual construction...AND THAT'S JUST TO GET THE FUCKING STUPID THING STARTED. Nevermind, the cost for continued surveillance, upkeep, repairs.

I'm sorry, I'm sure this has all been covered, but OMG I CAN'T ANYMORE. Meanwhile, my veteran, federally employed husband couldn't have a god damn motherfucking 2% pay raise.

FUCK THIS ADMINISTRATION

I'm sorry to be petty, but I suspect that geography and the actual mechanics of structural infrastructure are not exactly the strong suits of people who want the wall.  

[VillainV]

Jan 8, 2019 10:40:58 GMT -5 sangria said:

Forgive if this is stupid (as it may be) but why aren't the democrats, and really any and all sane people everywhere not SCREAMING that $5 billion or whatever trump wants is just about enough to cover the equivalent of a chain link fence? This is what I absolutely can't wrap my brain around- the cost of the type of wall all these people want has got to be what, at least 4 or 5 times that amount?
How are people not understanding that this is 2500 miles of mostly unpopulated desert? You've got to first build the roads to get people and equipment out to very isolated areas, then you are going to need electricity and water run out there also, you need to hire large trucks to transport the materials, then you've got to put money into archaeological surveys and digs to find and potentially preserve any artifacts/fossils/historical items of value, you'll need engineers to draw and design the actual structure, you'll likely need housing for the people working on the actual construction...AND THAT'S JUST TO GET THE FUCKING STUPID THING STARTED. Nevermind, the cost for continued surveillance, upkeep, repairs.

I'm sorry, I'm sure this has all been covered, but OMG I CAN'T ANYMORE. Meanwhile, my veteran, federally employed husband couldn't have a god damn motherfucking 2% pay raise.

FUCK THIS ADMINISTRATION

Not to mention that the government doesn’t own the land, and there will almost certainly be court battles over whether or not that land can be seized to build the wall (or roads, or infrastructure) in the first place.

The whole thing is a clusterfuck, and one giant NON-EMERGENCY. And any attempt for the president to declare otherwise will only rob money away from what could be used for ACTUAL EMERGENCIES. If any of this money comes from the defense budget, I’m going to be pissed — we’re already undermanned and underfunded as it is. But “nobody has done more for our military” than him!!! (Insert sarcasm)

[mbcdefg]

I'd really love to know where this money is actually going to be funneled. 

[Deleted]

My favorite eyebrow raise from this week is Dan Crenshaw saying as a Navy Seal he knows how well walls work. As a Navy Seal, wouldn’t he also know how people can get over/under/around walls if they wanted to? 🤔

I would like whoever does the Dem response tonight not only negate any of Trump’s lies but offer some genuine ideas in very easy-to-understand terms. If they were to bring up the SMART Wall idea, for instance, emphasize how the technology is better at catching the “bad guys” who aren’t going to be deterred by the concrete/steel/beaded curtain wall. Like, really drive home Dems aren’t against it because we hate Trump and want votes, but emphasize that there are more effective 21st century ways to secure the border in terms that are easy for Boomers to understand (bc I’m assuming they will be a large audience watching live on broadcast TV).

ETA just got the alert that Chuck and Nancy will do the response.

[mbcdefg]

Natalia Veselnitskaya, the Russian lawyer who in 2016 met with Trump campaign officials in Trump Tower, has been charged by federal prosecutors in a separate case that showed her close ties to the Kremlin, NYT reports.

Charged with obstructing justice. 

www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/nyregion/trump-tower-natalya-veselnitskaya-indictment.html

www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/russian-lawyer-at-trump-tower-meeting-charged-in-separate-case/2019/01/08/0f0303a0-1356-11e9-b6ad-9cfd62dbb0a8_story.html?utm_term=.25adc4e82e29


assets.documentcloud.org/documents/5677416/12-20-18-Veselnitskaya-Indictment.pdf

[dancingirl21]

Jan 8, 2019 10:57:22 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

I'd really love to know where this money is actually going to be funneled. 

I share this exact thought. Does he honestly think this money will build the wall, or is there some other sinister plan for it?! The level of stupidity continues to amaze me. It shouldn’t, but it does.

[Velar Fricative]

Jan 8, 2019 10:40:58 GMT -5 sangria said:

Forgive if this is stupid (as it may be) but why aren't the democrats, and really any and all sane people everywhere not SCREAMING that $5 billion or whatever trump wants is just about enough to cover the equivalent of a chain link fence? This is what I absolutely can't wrap my brain around- the cost of the type of wall all these people want has got to be what, at least 4 or 5 times that amount?
How are people not understanding that this is 2500 miles of mostly unpopulated desert? You've got to first build the roads to get people and equipment out to very isolated areas, then you are going to need electricity and water run out there also, you need to hire large trucks to transport the materials, then you've got to put money into archaeological surveys and digs to find and potentially preserve any artifacts/fossils/historical items of value, you'll need engineers to draw and design the actual structure, you'll likely need housing for the people working on the actual construction...AND THAT'S JUST TO GET THE FUCKING STUPID THING STARTED. Nevermind, the cost for continued surveillance, upkeep, repairs.

I'm sorry, I'm sure this has all been covered, but OMG I CAN'T ANYMORE. Meanwhile, my veteran, federally employed husband couldn't have a god damn motherfucking 2% pay raise.

FUCK THIS ADMINISTRATION

It's not stupid, but I see plenty of outlets reporting about how this stupid wall is...stupid. And pointing out specifics. Shouting from the rooftops doesn't help when people don't want to hear the message. I used to be annoyed by Democratic messaging but I don't think how they're messaging has been the "problem," it's *what* they're messaging. And as a D, I'm not saying that's a criticism at all, I'm just saying that you can't convince a buffoon of the facts regardless of how you frame it. That's not the Democratic Party's problem and I don't want them trying to woo those dummies anyway.

[bowies]

Every so often I stand back and marvel that the GOP went from masturbating over the memory of Reagan to a Mexican border wall in less than 5 years.

[mbcdefg]

Jan 8, 2019 11:08:00 GMT -5 dancingirl21 said:

Jan 8, 2019 10:57:22 GMT -5 mbcdefg said:

I'd really love to know where this money is actually going to be funneled. 

I share this exact thought. Does he honestly think this money will build the wall, or is there some other sinister plan for it?! The level of stupidity continues to amaze me. It shouldn’t, but it does.

I mean, I'm sure getting his Wall, at any cost (monetary, humanity, environmental, etc.) is all about saving face at this point ... but I'm sure the Trumps jump on any opportunity to launder money that they can.

In fact, I saw a Twitter thread earlier today saying that Lara Trump donated at least $10k of Trump Foundation money to an animal shelter in North Carolina. Which, of course, makes me wonder how the shelter is connected to the Trumps putting charitable money back into their own pockets.

 

[debatethis]

Oops, sorry, didn't see this post before posting my own. pixy0stix can you delete my other post?

talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/russian-lawyer-at-trump-tower-meeting-charged-for-obstruction-of-justice

The full indictment is at the link but TL;DR: Nataliya Veselnitskaya (Russian spy-lawyer at Trump Tower meeting) has been charged with obstruction of justice in the Prevezon Holdings (international money laundering through real estate) case.

This one's a big deal. Prevezon was laundering money through Jared Kushner's companies (Guardian reported this here: www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/24/jared-kushner-new-york-russia-money-laundering).

Jeff Sessions settled it abruptly for a pittance, two days before the trial, too: www.businessinsider.com/why-was-russian-money-laundering-case-dismissed-house-dems-2017-7

Kind of wondering what else NY is still investigating relating to Prevezon if a settled case from May 2017 is now turning up indictments. And I hope Sessions and Kushner are shitting their pants.

[atexan]

Jan 8, 2019 10:40:58 GMT -5 sangria said:

Forgive if this is stupid (as it may be) but why aren't the democrats, and really any and all sane people everywhere not SCREAMING that $5 billion or whatever trump wants is just about enough to cover the equivalent of a chain link fence? This is what I absolutely can't wrap my brain around- the cost of the type of wall all these people want has got to be what, at least 4 or 5 times that amount?
How are people not understanding that this is 2500 miles of mostly unpopulated desert? You've got to first build the roads to get people and equipment out to very isolated areas, then you are going to need electricity and water run out there also, you need to hire large trucks to transport the materials, then you've got to put money into archaeological surveys and digs to find and potentially preserve any artifacts/fossils/historical items of value, you'll need engineers to draw and design the actual structure, you'll likely need housing for the people working on the actual construction...AND THAT'S JUST TO GET THE FUCKING STUPID THING STARTED. Nevermind, the cost for continued surveillance, upkeep, repairs.

I'm sorry, I'm sure this has all been covered, but OMG I CAN'T ANYMORE. Meanwhile, my veteran, federally employed husband couldn't have a god damn motherfucking 2% pay raise.

FUCK THIS ADMINISTRATION

And, of course, if you build said infrastructure, you will make it easier to cross said desert, not harder.

[scout8]

Trump doesn't care if the wall actually gets built. It doesn't matter to him if it is tied up in the courts forever. He just wants to save face and claim victory. Getting the money for his wall is victory enough for him. He wants to be able to brag about it on the campaign trail.

[eclaires]

I swear to god I saw somewhere that the wall was thought up by his team as a simple concept to keep him talking about immigration during the campaign. I mean really. All this because dementia Don can’t stay on racist message without some basic concept to call back to.

[2curlydogs]