I also want to know what is their plan when the big secret comes out. Because it will happen one day or another.
I would point out to your bf that SIL and her parents are just an excuse. The real issue is that his own brother is ashamed of what he does for a living. It is unacceptable for your bf and his parents to let his brother walk all over him. The brother needs to get over it. This is really dysfunctional. What will be the next demand? Do you OP, have a career that is deemed acceptable to the brother? If not, what will happen?
I have no idea if my career is acceptable to his brother, and I don’t really care what they think. I’m an EFL teacher (freelance) at different universities in the area.
And, yes, it’s the future that scares me. I mean I kept it hidden that I was divorced for a while and I told the SIL in some random conversation a few months ago. I wasn’t asked to hide that, but she seemed to react fine to it.
As to the written fighting rules and being German, maybe he is just different. We made the rules together, so that we could fight fairly.
I’m not sure I want to cut my fishing trip short because I don’t think it would that much of a difference. I know the father and his wife will just talk extra, i.e. I still wouldn’t get that much alone time with my SO.
I also want to know what is their plan when the big secret comes out. Because it will happen one day or another.
I would point out to your bf that SIL and her parents are just an excuse. The real issue is that his own brother is ashamed of what he does for a living. It is unacceptable for your bf and his parents to let his brother walk all over him. The brother needs to get over it. This is really dysfunctional. What will be the next demand? Do you OP, have a career that is deemed acceptable to the brother? If not, what will happen?
I have no idea if my career is acceptable to his brother, and I don’t really care what they think. I’m an EFL teacher (freelance) at different universities in the area.
And, yes, it’s the future that scares me. I mean I kept it hidden that I was divorced for a while and I told the SIL in some random conversation a few months ago. I wasn’t asked to hide that, but she seemed to react fine to it.
As to the written fighting rules and being German, maybe he is just different. We made the rules together, so that we could fight fairly.
I’m not sure I want to cut my fishing trip short because I don’t think it would that much of a difference. I know the father and his wife will just talk extra, i.e. I still wouldn’t get that much alone time with my SO.
We haven’t talked today, so no updates.
FWIW, I don't think that hiding a divorce is the same. It's not relevant information to - anything, really. Most of the people I have met in my current city don't know I'm divorced, because it has absolutely nothing to do with my current life and situation. It's not their business. I guess technically your BF's job doesn't have anything to do with them either, but since it's something that gets talked about, it seems a more strange thing to lie about. I mean if nobody ever asked "how is work going?" or "what did you do on Monday?" it could be a lie by omission (like your lack of disclosure about your divorce) but it sounds like it DOES come up and you have to actually talk about a job/profession that doesn't exist.
Could you ask your SO to meet with you on Saturday before meeting with his dad? I am either impressed or concerned about your lack of ability to find a time to speak with him about this. Personally I'd be crawling out of my skin wanting to resolve whether or not I'm going to continue being in a serious relationship. Perhaps you are more emotionally mature than me, lol. Honestly, if he can't make the time to have a conversation with you that's a HUGE red flag to me, but it sounds like you aren't really trying to make the time for the conversation either which... baffles me. Are your truly ok with just letting this hang, or is he controlling the situation by not making it a priority?
Post by cattledogkisses on Aug 21, 2019 14:14:10 GMT -5
This is so bizarre to me. They're his brother's in-laws. They're not even his own family. They're technically no relation to him. I'm absolutely baffled that he cares to this degree about what they think. He's in IT, for goodness sake, it's not like he sells heroin.
I've never even met my brother's in-laws. I'm trying to imagine this and I just can't.
I also want to know what is their plan when the big secret comes out. Because it will happen one day or another.
I would point out to your bf that SIL and her parents are just an excuse. The real issue is that his own brother is ashamed of what he does for a living. It is unacceptable for your bf and his parents to let his brother walk all over him. The brother needs to get over it. This is really dysfunctional. What will be the next demand? Do you OP, have a career that is deemed acceptable to the brother? If not, what will happen?
I have no idea if my career is acceptable to his brother, and I don’t really care what they think. I’m an EFL teacher (freelance) at different universities in the area.
And, yes, it’s the future that scares me. I mean I kept it hidden that I was divorced for a while and I told the SIL in some random conversation a few months ago. I wasn’t asked to hide that, but she seemed to react fine to it.
As to the written fighting rules and being German, maybe he is just different. We made the rules together, so that we could fight fairly.
I’m not sure I want to cut my fishing trip short because I don’t think it would that much of a difference. I know the father and his wife will just talk extra, i.e. I still wouldn’t get that much alone time with my SO.
We haven’t talked today, so no updates.
I have no idea what this means.
But... neither of you are going to make this conversation a priority?? You can't cut your trip short/ he can't move his plans with his dad around? I'm a little baffled by this.
I have no idea if my career is acceptable to his brother, and I don’t really care what they think. I’m an EFL teacher (freelance) at different universities in the area.
And, yes, it’s the future that scares me. I mean I kept it hidden that I was divorced for a while and I told the SIL in some random conversation a few months ago. I wasn’t asked to hide that, but she seemed to react fine to it.
As to the written fighting rules and being German, maybe he is just different. We made the rules together, so that we could fight fairly.
I’m not sure I want to cut my fishing trip short because I don’t think it would that much of a difference. I know the father and his wife will just talk extra, i.e. I still wouldn’t get that much alone time with my SO.
We haven’t talked today, so no updates.
I have no idea what this means.
But... neither of you are going to make this conversation a priority?? You can't cut your trip short/ he can't move his plans with his dad around? I'm a little baffled by this.
No, I meant I will get to the father’s home and there won’t be much alone time even if I arrived earlier.
We talked tonight on the phone. It didn’t go the best. He said a few hurtful things.
Examples include:
Why can’t you just do this? The rest of my family have no problems with it. You only see SIL a few times a year, but I see the brother more. I explained that it was important to me that I form a relationship with her. I do like her. It seems that his family do not like her, but she’s tolerable and it is nice to have an outsider friend.
I learned that this was a major thing that the brother told him to tell me before I first met the SIL.
SO eventually agreed that I don’t have to lie, but if that happens I probably won’t be invited to anything the brother does. That was a shitty thing to say. The brother is really an ahole. I see that now.
It came out that I am worried about the future and how this lie will eventually come out. I asked what about when we move in together (or if we even get married— not in the plans, but we have talked about it) and he is living with me in Munich and we have to say he works in Altötting (2 hours away)? He asked if this is what all of this is about— the future. I said that it was a big part of it. He started to get it then.
I said that I want to go to counseling and he wasn’t crazy about the idea and said something to the effect of you Americans and your counseling. He agreed to it, though.
We agreed to sit down and talk more about it next weekend. We will have the whole weekend of alone time and nothing with his family— I hope.
I have no idea if my career is acceptable to his brother, and I don’t really care what they think. I’m an EFL teacher (freelance) at different universities in the area.
And, yes, it’s the future that scares me. I mean I kept it hidden that I was divorced for a while and I told the SIL in some random conversation a few months ago. I wasn’t asked to hide that, but she seemed to react fine to it.
As to the written fighting rules and being German, maybe he is just different. We made the rules together, so that we could fight fairly.
I’m not sure I want to cut my fishing trip short because I don’t think it would that much of a difference. I know the father and his wife will just talk extra, i.e. I still wouldn’t get that much alone time with my SO.
We haven’t talked today, so no updates.
FWIW, I don't think that hiding a divorce is the same. It's not relevant information to - anything, really. Most of the people I have met in my current city don't know I'm divorced, because it has absolutely nothing to do with my current life and situation. It's not their business. I guess technically your BF's job doesn't have anything to do with them either, but since it's something that gets talked about, it seems a more strange thing to lie about. I mean if nobody ever asked "how is work going?" or "what did you do on Monday?" it could be a lie by omission (like your lack of disclosure about your divorce) but it sounds like it DOES come up and you have to actually talk about a job/profession that doesn't exist.
Could you ask your SO to meet with you on Saturday before meeting with his dad? I am either impressed or concerned about your lack of ability to find a time to speak with him about this. Personally I'd be crawling out of my skin wanting to resolve whether or not I'm going to continue being in a serious relationship. Perhaps you are more emotionally mature than me, lol. Honestly, if he can't make the time to have a conversation with you that's a HUGE red flag to me, but it sounds like you aren't really trying to make the time for the conversation either which... baffles me. Are your truly ok with just letting this hang, or is he controlling the situation by not making it a priority?
Oh trust me, I am wanting to jump out of my skin and just yell. However, when I got divorced and went through counseling with my ex I learned that I had a “hard start up”, so now I have taken that on board and tried to remain calm in my new-ish relationship. It works fine for me and I’m fine to sit and really think about it and make sure everything goes OK.
We have a time set aside to talk next weekend and we talked today on the phone.
FWIW, I don't think that hiding a divorce is the same. It's not relevant information to - anything, really. Most of the people I have met in my current city don't know I'm divorced, because it has absolutely nothing to do with my current life and situation. It's not their business. I guess technically your BF's job doesn't have anything to do with them either, but since it's something that gets talked about, it seems a more strange thing to lie about. I mean if nobody ever asked "how is work going?" or "what did you do on Monday?" it could be a lie by omission (like your lack of disclosure about your divorce) but it sounds like it DOES come up and you have to actually talk about a job/profession that doesn't exist.
Could you ask your SO to meet with you on Saturday before meeting with his dad? I am either impressed or concerned about your lack of ability to find a time to speak with him about this. Personally I'd be crawling out of my skin wanting to resolve whether or not I'm going to continue being in a serious relationship. Perhaps you are more emotionally mature than me, lol. Honestly, if he can't make the time to have a conversation with you that's a HUGE red flag to me, but it sounds like you aren't really trying to make the time for the conversation either which... baffles me. Are your truly ok with just letting this hang, or is he controlling the situation by not making it a priority?
Not disclosing it is fine, but outright lying about it would still be a lie.
And I totally agree that there is no way I could wait until Saturday! OP I also don’t understand why you guys can’t talk on the phone??
I really wish I could multi quote.
We both don’t like the phone. We have a really strange way of taking our time to ourselves when we are apart, I guess. We did talk tonight on the phone.
Post by cattledogkisses on Aug 21, 2019 15:23:42 GMT -5
Maybe you can frame it as, he's giving his brother's in-laws a huge amount of control over his life. He's allowing them to dictate who he presents himself to be, and trying to force you to allow them to dictate your life by extension, all because of their petty snobbery about his occupation. It is completely and utterly unreasonable for him to live his life by their expectations, and to expect you to also live by their terms. (Again, these people aren't even related to him!)
And if his brother is going to be a dick about it, maybe it's time for your SO to reconsider that relationship.
I’m bothered that he can’t give you an exact answer as to *why* this lie is so important.
There’s something under all this. I’m not saying it’s bad, but *something* is driving this bizarre request and keeping him from giving you a straight answer. Dig.
All of this is hitting very close to home for me right now so I’m involved. I dug. I asked a shitton of questions. I’m glad I know more truth now and I understand the mindsets of those around me. It was me against a whole family so I feel the position you’re in.
Post by foundmylazybum on Aug 21, 2019 15:52:06 GMT -5
Why do you think all the sudden you guys need to go to counseling?
Maybe it's me, but...this is a big..small issue to me.
Married life is going to try to tell you it's a big thing, but, honestly, it doesnt seem like hes asking you to lie other places and you arent a liar.
You DO understand that each time he comes back with these childish little responses it's about him realizing that HE is going to have to deal with this now, not you and that it's making HIM uncomfortable.
Support him in THAT, and keep your boundaries in not lying
Post by klingklang77 on Aug 21, 2019 16:32:53 GMT -5
There is definitely something under all of this. I think it has to do with how he grew up and how strange his dynamic was after his parents’ divorce. He got part of the house in the divorce (the other part is his mom’s). He got that because his dad said that SO should and the brother makes a ton of money, so he doesn’t need it. So his brother basically ignores taking care of the mom and SO does it all. I guess there is some resentment there. That may be a reason why SO agrees to the lying for his brother’s sake. There is a strained relationship with the father and SO and the brother, but it has gotten better since I’ve (or we) started a relationship with SO. I said before that I am really close to the father, and he wants to see his son more, so he goes through me to get that. It puts me in an awkward position. I also do not want to get between his brother and SO.
It’s so strange. On the phone tonight we talked about families of origin and how that can impact us as a couple. He kind of got it.
I suggested counseling because I think a few sessions will help us in the long run. I know it may seem like a “small big problem”, but I’d rather take care of it now before it develops into a bigger issue. After my horrible marriage, I’ve learned that things fester and fester and I do not want to get to the resentment phase. Once you get there, it is really hard to get back.
If anyone has any suggestions on non-therapy solutions, that would be great. At this point we are just talking to each other with no solution.
Well, aspects of this may seem small, but I think it's the bigger picture here that matters. Your SOs brother won't invite you to events? THat's a problem. What else will his brother ask him to lie about? How long does this go on? What happens if/WHEN his wife finds out?
Or even the logistics of trying to explain how you all spend time together when he (supposedly) lives 2 hours away?
What may have started as a seemingly "Eh, not a big deal", but its the domino affect that's really the bigger issue.
The solution is to stop being a liar and part of a crazy scheme. It may be the brother wanting the lie, but the two of you go along with it. He needs to be proud of himself and stop comparing himself to his brother. You know you can break up with him, not just ask him to break up with you? Also, it is a strange dynamic with the father, as long as you are in the middle he will make little effort to go directly to his own son. It's great he likes you, but it is not your responsibility. There are so many red flags.
I think it will be an issue WHEN the SIL finds out. I’m not sure what will happen. The not being invited thing bothers me a lot. That’s why I want to go to counseling to get it before it happens.
I know that I can break up with him. However, that is easier said than done. I did say that he needs to be proud of what he does. There is only so much I can do. It is a strange situation with the father, I admit. I talked with him on Saturday and we were talking about meeting up again, which is set for this Saturday. He mentioned that SO doesn’t have much time (he really does work a lot), and I had to mention that SO needs alone time sometimes. He understood that, but he was a bit sad about that. I get it because the father sees that his son spends more time with the mother. SO was happy that I said that, but he kind of needs to talk more with his father about these things. They usually take a boys’ trip every year and the father invited me along, but I said I don’t want to go because they need that time together. It is just an all around difficult situation. He has another son from another marriage that won’t talk to him. I don’t get it at all. I guess there is a lot of stone walling going on in that family.
Post by lissaholly on Aug 21, 2019 17:20:22 GMT -5
I didn’t read the whole post. It’s not complicated to me. Life is messy, and someone who has a need to please others above my comfort level, and is worried about appearances to this extent, would not be someone I shared my life with. I don’t know if kids are in your future plans, but I would not be this openly dishonest with kids as witnesses/participants. This is a hard pass. Sorry.
So your SO is fine with you being excluded from family events because you're not willing to lie? That ridiculous. To a lesser extent, it's also really messed up that the dad you're allegedly so close with would also be fine with it but you're not in a relationship with him so whatever.
I absolutely would not want to deal with this family long term if your SO cannot prioritize you and your relationship. This does not bode well for your future and unless there is a significant change of attitude when you talk next weekend I would run for the hills.
The best way to stop weird family dynamics...is to top lying. The worst part of this is that everyone believes that SIL will freak out if he doesn’t have a “prestigious job”—my guess is she’s likely to be more pissed that people have been lying to her.
Eta-I wanted to add that if you stay with Bf, expect this to only be the first of many things your BIL will probably dictate how you talk about certain things. My one side of the family is a bunch of lying liars who lie and it’s a game of one upping. I don’t purposely mention certain things (like my post earlier about my brothers job) but it is PAINFUL sometimes to listen to conversations at family events. If you start going to more events with your Bf, I wish you luck
Post by thelurkylulu on Aug 21, 2019 18:29:26 GMT -5
He’s being very manipulative with the “if they find out you won’t be invited to family events” shit. Honestly, OP I think you really need to reconsider this relationship. None of this is normal or okay.
Also, if I were SIL and I did find out, I would be so hurt and angry that everyone had being lying to me. Even if me and my family were pretentious assholes, lying like this is so, so bad for any kind of relationship or friendship.
He’s being very manipulative with the “if they find out you won’t be invited to family events” shit. Honestly, OP I think you really need to reconsider this relationship. None of this is normal or okay.
Also, if I were SIL and I did find out, I would be so hurt and angry that everyone had being lying to me. Even if me and my family were pretentious assholes, lying like this is so, so bad for any kind of relationship or friendship.
I mean, seriously. The nonsensical lying aside, if my brother in law told my husband if I did or did not do xyz then I would not be invited to his future events, my husband would lose his shit on his brother and 100% have my back. And likewise. Like the way I feel it should be in a healthy relationship.
I think you need to think about what level you are willing to put up with here, because this is not a partnership.
Post by turnipthebeet on Aug 21, 2019 19:00:37 GMT -5
You need to determine your boundaries. Add them to your handbook.
Boundary: I will not lie on your behalf.
If that means you are uninvited to stuff, well, you need to cross that bridge when it comes. But it cannot be a reason that you compromise on your boundary.
Eta-I wanted to add that if you stay with Bf, expect this to only be the first of many things your BIL will probably dictate how you talk about certain things.
This is a good point. If he dictates this, what other aspects of your SO's life, and by extension your life, will he try to dictate in the future?
I think I am having trouble understanding your relationship. How often do you see each other in an average week? How often to you talk? It seems like a lot of the time you don’t really know what he’s doing, it’s possible I’m misunderstanding.
Do you trust him?
I do trust him. I don’t have any doubts about that.
We usually see each other about 3-5 times a week with him staying over at my place when he is working in Munich. It’s been 5 days a week since the beginning of the year, with random family events on weekends and a few relaxing weekends with us doing nothing or going to beer garden. He pays part of the rent and for food during this time, so I guess you can say we live together part time? Dunno. There are a few times a year when I don’t really see him and these are on school breaks and his yearly vacation boys trip with his dad. I don’t see him on these school breaks because he will be busy installing computer stuff when the schools are closed in a different part of the state. Right now he is working on some big project, so he’s not in Munich (in Munich he is on a contract with a non-school as the IT person).
To answer the other comments: It is manipulative that he says I won’t be invited to things because he knows I have no family here. The thing that bothers me the most is that he can’t really see my side. My exH never stuck up for me in front of his family either. It was one of our major issues. I don’t want to repeat that.
So basically he has a brother issue and his brother has an ILs issue as he anticipates them to be judgy arseholes about what your SO does for a living. This should not be something that comes between you and your SO, and I would insist he discuss this further with his brother.
He might have been ok with it before, but things change and he now has to take your feelings and your relationship together into account. Not being invited to family events because of BIL's issues is not ok.
Dude. This is not about him being German. Many many Germans manage to interact in this world without a fucking handbook.
I'll bet you those rules are heavily favored to his benefit.
And I've got 50 monopoly dollars that he doesn't want the multiple addresses coming out because he has something actually worth hiding there, and working in IT ain't it. He has a girlfriend or a wife there. Like, Nobody goes to these lengths over IT. They just don't.
This is a blessing in disguise for you. See that for what it is.
This was my first thought and I'm shocked - shocked, I say - that it took until page four for someone to say it out loud!
Dude. This is not about him being German. Many many Germans manage to interact in this world without a fucking handbook.
I'll bet you those rules are heavily favored to his benefit.
And I've got 50 monopoly dollars that he doesn't want the multiple addresses coming out because he has something actually worth hiding there, and working in IT ain't it. He has a girlfriend or a wife there. Like, Nobody goes to these lengths over IT. They just don't.
This is a blessing in disguise for you. See that for what it is.
This was my first thought and I'm shocked - shocked, I say - that it took until page four for someone to say it out loud!
He does not have a wife or girlfriend. That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. He has had his studio apartment which is about 10 square feet for years when he was a teacher in that city. Now his employer is 10 minutes away. His Homebase employer contracts him out to an engineering company in my city 3-5 times a week, depending on the time of year. He stays with the mother a few weekends. Like I said she has health issues.
I have no idea where he would even hide a gf or wife. Again please don’t jump to conclusions.
Post by sparkythelawyer on Aug 22, 2019 8:53:51 GMT -5
Look. People just don't lie about this. Let alone pull this shellgame of "WE MUST ALL PLAY THIS RIDICULOUS SHELL GAME BECAUSE IF MY BROTHER'S WIFE AND HER PARENTS EVER FOUND OUT...."
If they found out, then...what. What would really happen. What would be the consequence. Probably 1) SIL would be ripshit pissed that her husband lied to her face for numerous years, 2) That her family went along with it; and then 3) That *gasp* he's not a teacher? Oh the sin and the shame of not being a teacher? Even though he still works for the schools? Hell she could find this all out looking at his linkedin profile one time.
I do not understand the all out need to protect SIL at all costs. Like, what your SO does has absolutely nothing to do with her. None.
Someone is lying for reasons that have nothing to do with *gasp* what would SIL and her parents say. Someone has real skin in the game with this lie, and it ain't brother's embarrassment that his brother is an IT professional. I don't know what that lie is, but someone has a much more vested interest in it. And your SO's determination to feed this lie to protect SIL's delicate sensibilities at all costs screams "There is something else going on."
Post by followyourarrow on Aug 22, 2019 11:22:25 GMT -5
This is the craziest thing to me. Lies snowball. There is no way this is the only thing he's lying about, you just don't know yet what the other things are.
Admittedly I skimmed, so apologies if this has been asked and answered.
klingklang77, do you know exactly who the lie is supposed to be protecting, and from what?
A lot of people are assuming the lie is to protect your SO from his brother's in-laws' opinion, which really doesn't make any sense, so I'd like to offer another possibility, that maybe the lie is to protect the brother. Do you know if the brother's in-laws have a poor opinion of him?
When my DH and I were first dating, my parents weren't too keen on him for a number of reasons. Because they were on alert for *anything* they could look down on him about, I glossed over lots of details about his family that I knew my parents would judge. And I know that I asked my DH to just go along with what I had told them, "for his sake."
Where my situation splits from the OP is that I never asked my DH's family to go along with things, and if I had, they would have (rightly) been super pissed that not only had I asked them to do this, but that I, myself, had done it in the first place.
I'm not saying you should keep up the lie. I do think it's worth trying to understand the "why" behind it, so you can decide if this is a family you really want to be a part of. My DH and I have been married for 14 years, and this issue of me wanting to make my DH seem as good as possible in my parents' eyes caused problems for a long time. I'm grateful he didn't throw in the towel!