Post by goldengirlz on Aug 23, 2019 17:44:00 GMT -5
“Electable” is just another way to say “someone we’ve seen before.”
It’s someone who fits the pattern of white, male, older, Christian and heterosexual. A decade ago, no one would have ever thought a black man could be electable ... until he was elected. Now it’s not that crazy an idea. People used to think Catholics weren’t electable ... until we elected one. We continue to harbor this perception that women aren’t electable ... because it’s never been done before.
But someone has to be the first.
I reject this idea that the only way to win is to find an old, white man to lead us to victory. Also, I have a sneaking suspicion people who care THAT MUCH about white and male and Christian ... are exactly the kind of people who voted, and will continue to vote, for Trump. The people who want to stop The Others from getting their fair share but couch it as economic anxiety instead of calling it what it is.
Post by goldengirlz on Aug 23, 2019 17:45:29 GMT -5
And I’ll believe Biden winning Texas when I see it. Does anyone REALLY think Biden can win Texas? Convince me that he can, and maybe I’ll consider voting for him in the primary. And not just based on polling.
ETA: To the extent that Texas could be in play, it would be because of young and minority (particularly Hispanic) voters. How does Biden speak to those demographics?
Democrats like to be right, winning is an added bonus and losing is part of life. Republicans know you can't govern if you don't first win. They fall in line.
I'll vote for just about anyone the democrats pick other than Bernie Sanders.
But I do not believe, for one single second, that the people who stayed home in 2016 will come out for Warren. I just don't.
I think it’s fair to be concerned about Warren increasing turnout. But I think if she can’t excite voters, I don’t see how Biden would be any different.
Democrats like to be right, winning is an added bonus and losing is part of life. Republicans know you can't govern if you don't first win. They fall in line.
I'll vote for just about anyone the democrats pick other than Bernie Sanders.
But I do not believe, for one single second, that the people who stayed home in 2016 will come out for Warren. I just don't.
Did you not see the write up by a pollster who predicted the exact results if 2018?
"Does the Democrat’s nominee matter? Sure, to an extent. If the ticket has a woman, a person of color or a Latino, or a female who is also a person of color, Democratic Party turnout will surge more in really important places. If the nominee is Biden he’d be well-advised to consider Democratic voter turnout his number one consideration when drawing his running mate to avoid the critical mistake made by Hillary Clinton in 2016."
You can't run an election on a negative. Trump didn't. "Make Ameruca Great Again." I live in a purple state - a lot of his ads didn't even have him in them. They had steel workers and coal workers. They gave people hope for a resurgence of American industry.
We can't have a candidate whose best argument is "I'm not Trump!" We need someone who seems fresh and new and innovative and liberal and who has REAL IDEAS to help real people, and can connect with them via her life story. I think PLENTY of people will want to elect the first woman president, especially in this political climate.
Post by Dumbledork on Aug 23, 2019 18:51:40 GMT -5
People only like Biden because Obama made him cool.
He’s “have you met my cool best friend Obama? and did you see that he’s black? that I have a cool black friend? aren’t I cool too? I’m cool enough to have a black friend so I must be cool” into this whole election and “most electable” position.
Post by centralsquare on Aug 23, 2019 18:55:52 GMT -5
Oh yeah. This Biden plan is a sure path to victory.
”I only have two political heroes. I have one hero who was my dad, but I have two political heroes were Martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy. My senior semester they were both shot and killed. Imagine what would have happened if, God forbid, Barack Obama had been assassinated after becoming the de facto nominee. What would have happened in America?
Things changed. You had over 40 kids shot at Kent State on a beautiful lawn by the National Guard.”
Democrats like to be right, winning is an added bonus and losing is part of life. Republicans know you can't govern if you don't first win. They fall in line.
I'll vote for just about anyone the democrats pick other than Bernie Sanders.
But I do not believe, for one single second, that the people who stayed home in 2016 will come out for Warren. I just don't.
Look, I hate Bernie Sanders as much as anyone, what with his shouty old man persona, his sense of entitlement, and his efforts to hijack the Democratic party while not, you know, actually being a member of it, but COME ON. Our figurative house is on fire. Instead of refusing to use a garden hose to try to put the fire out because it's not your preferred brand, maybe use the hose and salvage the building?
Democrats like to be right, winning is an added bonus and losing is part of life. Republicans know you can't govern if you don't first win. They fall in line.
I'll vote for just about anyone the democrats pick other than Bernie Sanders.
But I do not believe, for one single second, that the people who stayed home in 2016 will come out for Warren. I just don't.
Look, I hate Bernie Sanders as much as anyone, what with his shouty old man persona, his sense of entitlement, and his efforts to hijack the Democratic party while not, you know, actually being a member of it, but COME ON. Our figurative house is on fire. Instead of refusing to use a garden hose to try to put the fire out because it's not your preferred brand, maybe use the hose and salvage the building?
I guarantee NO ONE hates Bernie more than I do. He has wreaked havoc on my professional life and it drives me nuts. But good god, if it’s between him and Trump I’ll be at the polls enthusiastically bubbling in next to his name. I have a difficult time even figuring out how doing otherwise would be remotely justifiable.
And I’ll believe Biden winning Texas when I see it. Does anyone REALLY think Biden can win Texas? Convince me that he can, and maybe I’ll consider voting for him in the primary. And not just based on polling.
ETA: To the extent that Texas could be in play, it would be because of young and minority (particularly Hispanic) voters. How does Biden speak to those demographics?
Granted, I live in a pretty liberal part of Austin but it's Warren and Harris stickers/signs/tshirts all the way around here. No Biden in sight.
Post by goldengirlz on Aug 23, 2019 19:47:54 GMT -5
It also kills me the way we talk about Clinton as a colossal failure — a cautionary tale — when she won the popular vote. She showed that people — a lot of people — will vote for a woman. She made history in being the first woman to win the majority of votes.
Yeah, it wasn’t enough then. It doesn’t mean it won’t be enough next time.
Post by Jalapeñomel on Aug 23, 2019 21:19:42 GMT -5
It’s hard to imagine that, in our current climate, we still think of the old white dude as the only electable candidate.
Not a single student of mine trusts old white men...they will be at the polls voting for someone who looks and thinks like them, and they, hopefully, will turn out in droves if we put the right candidate to fight Trump.
You put another old white dude up, we will continue to have a voter turnout problem, especially amongst our younger voters. Democrats cannot pander to the olds...they need to start thinking about our newest voters, the ones who will, ultimately, save us from this nightmare.
It’s hard to imagine that, in our current climate, we still think of the old white dude as the only electable candidate.
Not a single student of mine trusts old white men...they will be at the polls voting for someone who looks and thinks like them, and they, hopefully, will turn out in droves if we put the right candidate to fight Trump.
You put another old white dude up, we will continue to have a voter turnout problem, especially amongst our younger voters. Democrats cannot pander to the olds...they need to start thinking about our newest voters, the ones who will, ultimately, save us from this nightmare.
That's an excellent point. I don't think anyone expects people like your students to support Biden- they just don't think of them at all. The only votes that matter are from middle class white people so put out a candidate they will support. And that's how this whole bullshit cycle perpetuates. Only looking at white people as both candidates and voting pool. that didn't work in 2016 and will probably not work again. (nor should it)
I live in Houston and have not seen any support showing for Biden at all. I do travel in very liberal circles, so I do not know that is really reflective of the whole city. I think what we need is energy, youth, diversity, and a platform that includes social justice to get people out and motivated to vote.
There was recently a proposal to cut all funding from meals on wheels, and due to a petition, this did not go through. There are plenty of people in Texas who are liberal, but they are often written off as living in a conservative state.
Instead of trying to appeal to everyone, we need politicians who do make broad proposals. Of course, that can cause a different problem if these things can not get off the ground. I think to motivate voters, you need to tell them what you are offering and attempting to do. This offer can not be vague, like "I am better than Trump." Honestly, I think a turnip is better than him, but instead, we need people out there saying, I am campaigning for $15/hr, women's access to healthcare, a path to citizenship, or whatever they want their pet project to be. One reason Bernie has support is that he is out there shouting about what he wants. Given his track record and age, I do not believe he has the skill to get it done, but at least he is saying something, and saying it often. Other candidates do have some issues they want to work on, but they are not out there blasting it on social media to everyone who does not even want to hear about it.
Look, I hate Bernie Sanders as much as anyone, what with his shouty old man persona, his sense of entitlement, and his efforts to hijack the Democratic party while not, you know, actually being a member of it, but COME ON. Our figurative house is on fire. Instead of refusing to use a garden hose to try to put the fire out because it's not your preferred brand, maybe use the hose and salvage the building?
I guarantee NO ONE hates Bernie more than I do. He has wreaked havoc on my professional life and it drives me nuts. But good god, if it’s between him and Trump I’ll be at the polls enthusiastically bubbling in next to his name. I have a difficult time even figuring out how doing otherwise would be remotely justifiable.
I've made a vow that I'll even knock on doors for Shouty Bernard if he's the nominee and be enthusiastic in support. I will need to call on every last one of my high school drama geek skills to make it happen, but I'll do it.
I live in Houston and have not seen any support showing for Biden at all. I do travel in very liberal circles, so I do not know that is really reflective of the whole city. I think what we need is energy, youth, diversity, and a platform that includes social justice to get people out and motivated to vote.
There was recently a proposal to cut all funding from meals on wheels, and due to a petition, this did not go through. There are plenty of people in Texas who are liberal, but they are often written off as living in a conservative state.
Instead of trying to appeal to everyone, we need politicians who do make broad proposals. Of course, that can cause a different problem if these things can not get off the ground. I think to motivate voters, you need to tell them what you are offering and attempting to do. This offer can not be vague, like "I am better than Trump." Honestly, I think a turnip is better than him, but instead, we need people out there saying, I am campaigning for $15/hr, women's access to healthcare, a path to citizenship, or whatever they want their pet project to be. One reason Bernie has support is that he is out there shouting about what he wants. Given his track record and age, I do not believe he has the skill to get it done, but at least he is saying something, and saying it often. Other candidates do have some issues they want to work on, but they are not out there blasting it on social media to everyone who does not even want to hear about it.
I also live in Houston and have not seen any support for Biden at all. I've seen some support for Warren, some for Beto, some for Castro, and literally nothing for Biden. If he's the nominee sure I will vote for him but calling him the most electable is flat out wrong.
I know the Pod Save America guys aren't the most popular around here but their most recent discussion on electability is worth watching. They have Jemele Hill on as a guest and it's a really great conversation on the current candidates.
Why don't Democrats understand how a primary works? VOTE FOR WHO YOU WANT NOW. No one knows who is electable at this point. Literally nobody predicted Trump would take the nomination, let alone the presidency.
You don't put in the "more of the same" against the "drain the swamp" guy. I don't care that that's not actually how it is, that's how it reads to voters.
The whole "electability" thing has always bugged me. You know when someone is electable? WHEN THEY'RE ELECTED. That happens when people vote for them. Biden has run for president before and not succeeded, so now saying he's the most "electable" is a smokescreen for saying "he's the status quo."
So many people are sick of the status quo. 2008 was the very first time I had ever voted in any election, specifically because finally there were 2 candidates who weren't status quo.
The whole "electability" thing has always bugged me. You know when someone is electable? WHEN THEY'RE ELECTED. That happens when people vote for them. Biden has run for president before and not succeeded, so now saying he's the most "electable" is a smokescreen for saying "he's the status quo."
So many people are sick of the status quo. 2008 was the very first time I had ever voted in any election, specifically because finally there were 2 candidates who weren't status quo.
It’s also a total dog whistle for “women and people of color can’t win elections.” Which then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and isn’t even true anyways.
I know the Pod Save America guys aren't the most popular around here but their most recent discussion on electability is worth watching. They have Jemele Hill on as a guest and it's a really great conversation on the current candidates.
Thanks for this, just listened and thought everyone was on the money.
The whole "electability" thing has always bugged me. You know when someone is electable? WHEN THEY'RE ELECTED. That happens when people vote for them. Biden has run for president before and not succeeded, so now saying he's the most "electable" is a smokescreen for saying "he's the status quo."
So many people are sick of the status quo. 2008 was the very first time I had ever voted in any election, specifically because finally there were 2 candidates who weren't status quo.
It’s also a total dog whistle for “women and people of color can’t win elections.” Which then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and isn’t even true anyways.
In 1960 Democrats didn’t think JFK was electable because he was Catholic.
I know the Pod Save America guys aren't the most popular around here but their most recent discussion on electability is worth watching. They have Jemele Hill on as a guest and it's a really great conversation on the current candidates.
Thanks for this, just listened and thought everyone was on the money.
I can't wait to hear more of Dan's thoughts on the possibility of a brokered convention, though.
It’s hard to imagine that, in our current climate, we still think of the old white dude as the only electable candidate.
Not a single student of mine trusts old white men...they will be at the polls voting for someone who looks and thinks like them, and they, hopefully, will turn out in droves if we put the right candidate to fight Trump.
You put another old white dude up, we will continue to have a voter turnout problem, especially amongst our younger voters. Democrats cannot pander to the olds...they need to start thinking about our newest voters, the ones who will, ultimately, save us from this nightmare.
I think so many of us are stuck in time. The kids are millennials, etc. But the oldest millennials are almost 40, and are larger in size than the vaunted Baby Boomers. They’re entering their prime voting years though (of course) the olds vote in greater percentages. Pair that with the energy of the generations that actually ARE the kids these days and I just have no interest in ceding conventional wisdom to the Boomers who are comfortable with the old white dude. Old white voters are basically a lost cause at this point so fuck trying to cater to them.
Joe Biden in Keene, New Hampshire: "I’ve been here a number of times...I love this place. Look, what’s not to like about Vermont in terms of the beauty of it?”
This makes the 385839th “gaffe” he’s made this month. Maybe this isn’t as bad as his saying the Parkland kids visited him when he was VP or saying that poor kids can be as smart as white kids but...damn. We need higher expectations for the primary. If he gets the nom, then sure I’ll vote (and hope he picks a really good VP), but I just don’t buy that he’s our best bet.
Joe Biden in Keene, New Hampshire: "I’ve been here a number of times...I love this place. Look, what’s not to like about Vermont in terms of the beauty of it?”
This makes the 385839th “gaffe” he’s made this month. Maybe this isn’t as bad as his saying the Parkland kids visited him when he was VP or saying that poor kids can be as smart as white kids but...damn. We need higher expectations for the primary. If he gets the nom, then sure I’ll vote (and hope he picks a really good VP), but I just don’t buy that he’s our best bet.
Don’t forget RFK and MLK being assassinated in the late 70s according to old Joe. I am literally not about to vote to replace one declining old man with another. No thank you.
Post by penguingrrl on Aug 24, 2019 21:40:49 GMT -5
I’ll be honest, if he wins the nomination it will be really hard to go out of my way to knock doors and host events for his campaign. I’ll hold my nose and vote for him, and grudgingly campaign for him. But I certainly lynwony have the energy and fervor I would for a real candidate.
I’ll be honest, if he wins the nomination it will be really hard to go out of my way to knock doors and host events for his campaign. I’ll hold my nose and vote for him, and grudgingly campaign for him. But I certainly lynwony have the energy and fervor I would for a real candidate.
Right, why campaign hard for someone who has the personal cultural history to understand the pain of targeted genocide and could free people from cages?
I don’t like the guy, and I’ll vote for my favorite in the primary, but I’ll campaign hard for the nom even if it’s Captain Underpants himself.
I lived in an early primary state in 2008 and voted for the unelectable Barack Obama. I couldn’t even tell you who was polling up at the time because it didn’t matter.
I mean....if Biden is truly locked in on support then he will win primaries and become the nominee. That’s how it works.