I mean that there is a demand for puppies that they are able to fill because people breed them. Yes they’re rescuing them from euthanasia in most cases but they are still providing them to the consumer public. If they’re losing money on it then that’s nice, but wouldn’t it be better to refuse to take the puppies. I would assume they have to purchase the puppies to get them away from the breeders. I doubt they are stealing them. And as long as they’re willing to take them it will encourage those breeders that they are having to purchase the puppies from. To be clear, I don’t think the puppies should be euthanized. I’m just saying that if they’re purchasing the puppies to rescue them legally, since they are generally property under the law, it would seem to me that this incentivized bad breeders to keep producing puppies.
Oh my fucking god. They're not purchasing puppies. I highly suggest you stop spouting shit and go volunteer for an organization for a while.
I am really not being obtuse. I just linked to my source. Certainly not every rescue is purchasing puppies but I don’t think it helps matters to deny that it happens. And certainly if it happens there’s a profit incentive for bad breeders who know that certain rescues will choose to operate this way while under that name.
What do you mean, rescues are benefitting from taking puppies? They take puppies who might otherwise be euthanized, and pregnant moms who might be euthanized as well. The adoption fees that rescues charge usually don’t even come close to covering what they spend on each animal.
I mean that there is a demand for puppies that they are able to fill because people breed them. Yes they’re rescuing them from euthanasia in most cases but they are still providing them to the consumer public. If they’re losing money on it then that’s nice, but wouldn’t it be better to refuse to take the puppies. I would assume they have to purchase the puppies to get them away from the breeders. I doubt they are stealing them. And as long as they’re willing to take them it will encourage those breeders that they are having to purchase the puppies from. To be clear, I don’t think the puppies should be euthanized. I’m just saying that if they’re purchasing the puppies to rescue them legally, since they are generally property under the law, it would seem to me that this incentivized bad breeders to keep producing puppies.
Rescues are not purchasing puppies!! My god. They are literally rescuing puppies and pregnant moms from the streets, or taking them from shelters and putting them in foster homes until they’re old enough to be adopted. Breeders will often relinquish their “damaged goods” puppies to rescues, the ones they can’t sell. But rescues aren’t buying puppies.
All of your assumptions related to rescue have been woefully incorrect. I agree that you should volunteer with a rescue to educate yourself.
I mean that there is a demand for puppies that they are able to fill because people breed them. Yes they’re rescuing them from euthanasia in most cases but they are still providing them to the consumer public. If they’re losing money on it then that’s nice, but wouldn’t it be better to refuse to take the puppies. I would assume they have to purchase the puppies to get them away from the breeders. I doubt they are stealing them. And as long as they’re willing to take them it will encourage those breeders that they are having to purchase the puppies from. To be clear, I don’t think the puppies should be euthanized. I’m just saying that if they’re purchasing the puppies to rescue them legally, since they are generally property under the law, it would seem to me that this incentivized bad breeders to keep producing puppies.
Rescues are not purchasing puppies!! My god. They are literally rescuing puppies and pregnant moms from the streets, or taking them from shelters and putting them in foster homes until they’re old enough to be adopted. Breeders will often relinquish their “damaged goods” puppies to rescues, the ones they can’t sell. But rescues aren’t buying puppies.
All of your assumptions related to rescue have been woefully incorrect. I agree that you should volunteer with a rescue to educate yourself.
I LEGIT PAID $175 FOR A 10 WEEK OLD PUPPY AND SHE HAD ALL KINDS OF VET CARE DUE TO BEING SEPARATED FROM HER MOTHER AND BEING IN ROUGH SHAPE. WE WILL PAY FOR HER FINAL ROUND OF PUPPY SHOTS BUT THE $175 EVEN INCLUDES HER SPAYING AT MY VET THAT IS BASICALLY NICER THAN ANY DOCTORS OFFICE IVE EVER BEEN TO.
How could anyone be making any money on that? They survive off donations and people loving dogs and probably my vet donating services. They have puppies every so often but it’s mostly older, abandoned or given up dogs. This is the most ridiculous conversation I’ve ever had.
I certainly don’t think all or the majority do this. I do think it happens more frequently than the rescue community would care to admit. And I think that’s because most of the rescue community are lovely people who care deeply about animals and don’t fathom the profit motive’s that can look behind that kind of operation.
Oh my fucking god. They're not purchasing puppies. I highly suggest you stop spouting shit and go volunteer for an organization for a while.
I am really not being obtuse. I just linked to my source. Certainly not every rescue is purchasing puppies but I don’t think it helps matters to deny that it happens. And certainly if it happens there’s a profit incentive for bad breeders who know that certain rescues will choose to operate this way while under that name.
Rescues are not purchasing puppies!! My god. They are literally rescuing puppies and pregnant moms from the streets, or taking them from shelters and putting them in foster homes until they’re old enough to be adopted. Breeders will often relinquish their “damaged goods” puppies to rescues, the ones they can’t sell. But rescues aren’t buying puppies.
All of your assumptions related to rescue have been woefully incorrect. I agree that you should volunteer with a rescue to educate yourself.
What do you mean, rescues are benefitting from taking puppies? They take puppies who might otherwise be euthanized, and pregnant moms who might be euthanized as well. The adoption fees that rescues charge usually don’t even come close to covering what they spend on each animal.
I mean that there is a demand for puppies that they are able to fill because people breed them. Yes they’re rescuing them from euthanasia in most cases but they are still providing them to the consumer public. If they’re losing money on it then that’s nice, but wouldn’t it be better to refuse to take the puppies. I would assume they have to purchase the puppies to get them away from the breeders. I doubt they are stealing them. And as long as they’re willing to take them it will encourage those breeders that they are having to purchase the puppies from. To be clear, I don’t think the puppies should be euthanized. I’m just saying that if they’re purchasing the puppies to rescue them legally, since they are generally property under the law, it would seem to me that this incentivized bad breeders to keep producing puppies.
You clearly have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to animal rescue.
Ok, I’m fired up so I’m responding again. They way rescues are making a dent in overpopulation, is they’re spaying and neutering all dogs that they rescue. Hundreds of thousands of dogs per year. And they’re NOT breeding dogs. So big dent right there.
What can YOU do about overpopulation? Well. You can spay and neuter your pets, you can adopt not shop, you can educate others about rescues vs breeders and you can donate money and time to animal rescue if you’re so inclined.
Sincerely, thank you. Rescues do take puppies, so while they’re not breeding they are benefiting from it because there is a demand in the market for puppies. How should that be addressed? This is something I kind of struggled with and I think the answer is some sort of serious legal penalty for not fixing your pet. That’s what led me to the licensed breeders only train of thought.
*quote snipped for @*
You are really showing your ass in this whole thread but if you’re going to post shit about your kid kindly use the damn @ tag.
OK that’s just rude. I bought my dog. There’s nothing wrong with that as far as I’m concerned. You are very welcome to disagree. There’s nothing wrong with the vast majority of rescues. That doesn’t change the fact that there are some bad actors in that community just as much if there are bad actors among breeders. I didn’t think that we had to agree with each other and I still don’t, but I’m citing sources and legitimately interested in parsing out the ethics of dealing with animal overpopulation. Calling names is uncalled for.
Well you don't know that a puppy will grow up to be good with kids either.
Anyway, let me give you an example of breeding to further/better the breed. This is Ernie. Ernie is an exotic shorthair, an officially recognized breed of cat that is essentially a shorthaired Persian, known as "Zot" for short. Ernie was bred in Russia and sold to a breeder in NJ. The NJ breeder chose not to use him in her breeding program and promptly had him neutered. Why? He doesn't meet breed standard. Oh, his head is absolutely perfect for a Zot. Low, rounded ears, round eyes, flat face, round, large head, short, dense fur. But the rest of his body does not conform. See, zots are supposed to have cobby bodies, like Persians. Short, muscular, compact, dense. Ernie has a long, lean body and long legs, just like a regular house cat. I've joked with people that he wouldn't make perfect kittens and they roll their eyes - but it's true. There's no shortage of kittens in the world, and if a breeder thinks a cat will produce kittens that won't even be up to breed standard, let alone pass on a desirable trait, like a color pattern, eye shape, or personality feature, they shouldn't do it.
Ernie also has a sweet and funny personality. He was given to a well-respected rescuer and that's how I ended up finding and adopting him. Though he is still purebred, he's in perfect health, and cost me $275. He also sleeps right next to me every night. You can get any pet you want from rescue if you are willing to search and wait - puppies, kittens, purebreds, mutts, large, small, even exotic pets.
And yes, requiring people to spay and neuter pets is a fine idea, but the enforcement is difficult and expensive.
OK that’s just rude. I bought my dog. There’s nothing wrong with that as far as I’m concerned. You are very welcome to disagree. There’s nothing wrong with the vast majority of rescues. That doesn’t change the fact that there are some bad actors in that community just as much if there are bad actors among breeders. I didn’t think that we had to agree with each other and I still don’t, but I’m citing sources and legitimately interested in parsing out the ethics of dealing with animal overpopulation. Calling names is uncalled for.
You are a fuckwit that refuses to listen to anything that is not your world view, even when you are being told that you are categorically and shockingly wrong. You have SHIT upon the posters in this thread that have worked decades for shelters and rescues with your inane assertions. You are lucky this is all I'm calling you.
Rescues are not purchasing puppies!! My god. They are literally rescuing puppies and pregnant moms from the streets, or taking them from shelters and putting them in foster homes until they’re old enough to be adopted. Breeders will often relinquish their “damaged goods” puppies to rescues, the ones they can’t sell. But rescues aren’t buying puppies.
All of your assumptions related to rescue have been woefully incorrect. I agree that you should volunteer with a rescue to educate yourself.
I’ve already said, not every rescue is reputable. Sure, there are some bad ones out there. Just like there are bad doctors, bad accountants, bad mechanics, bad hairdressers. But you’ve come to a conclusion that fits your needs, so you’re not interested in listening, learning the facts, etc. The truth is the majority of rescues are doing good work. Important, heartbreaking, frustrating work.
Why do you continue to double, triple, etc. down? Is it because deep down, you know you made a bad choice and you’re trying to justify that?
Sincerely, thank you. Rescues do take puppies, so while they’re not breeding they are benefiting from it because there is a demand in the market for puppies. How should that be addressed? This is something I kind of struggled with and I think the answer is some sort of serious legal penalty for not fixing your pet. That’s what led me to the licensed breeders only train of thought. I wanted a puppy because I know large dogs live shorter lives in general, and because in all honesty I was scared off by my brother having a bad experience with a rescue whom he adores but would have to be rehomed if certain circumstances ever arise in the future.
You are really showing your ass in this whole thread but if you’re going to post shit about your kid kindly use the damn @ tag.
I am incredibly sorry. I forgot. I shouldn’t have. The second I saw this I went back and fixed those posts. If I need to do anything to fix quotes please let me know and I will do it right away. Again I am incredibly sorry for forgetting.
OK that’s just rude. I bought my dog. There’s nothing wrong with that as far as I’m concerned. You are very welcome to disagree. There’s nothing wrong with the vast majority of rescues. That doesn’t change the fact that there are some bad actors in that community just as much if there are bad actors among breeders. I didn’t think that we had to agree with each other and I still don’t, but I’m citing sources and legitimately interested in parsing out the ethics of dealing with animal overpopulation. Calling names is uncalled for.
Ok so let's say that 5% of breeders are legitimately good. And then there's 5% of rescues that suck and should be shut down.
So we're all in agreement. But you did not purchase a dog from that 5% and the 95% of rescues that are good are just trying to find homes for the millions of animals that will otherwise be put down.
If you want to help reduce the overpopulation issue, buying from a breeder ain't doing it.
OK that’s just rude. I bought my dog. There’s nothing wrong with that as far as I’m concerned. You are very welcome to disagree. There’s nothing wrong with the vast majority of rescues. That doesn’t change the fact that there are some bad actors in that community just as much if there are bad actors among breeders. I didn’t think that we had to agree with each other and I still don’t, but I’m citing sources and legitimately interested in parsing out the ethics of dealing with animal overpopulation. Calling names is uncalled for.
You are a fuckwit that refuses to listen to anything that is not your world view, even when you are being told that you are categorically and shockingly wrong. You have SHIT upon the posters in this thread that have worked decades for shelters and rescues with your inane assertions. You are lucky this is all I'm calling you.
I don’t think I’ve done any such thing and I am sorry you feel that way. I will state one final time to you that I don’t think all shelters or rescues are just reputable. Neither do I think all breeders are disreputable. I don’t see our disagreement on this point as a reason to call names, especially when I’m trying my best to cite sources and give consideration to your viewpoint. I hope you feel better and have a good night.
I’ve already said, not every rescue is reputable. Sure, there are some bad ones out there. Just like there are bad doctors, bad accountants, bad mechanics, bad hairdressers. But you’ve come to a conclusion that fits your needs, so you’re not interested in listening, learning the facts, etc. The truth is the majority of rescues are doing good work. Important, heartbreaking, frustrating work.
Why do you continue to double, triple, etc. down? Is it because deep down, you know you made a bad choice and you’re trying to justify that?
I’m not disputing that most rescues are doing good work. You seem to be under the impression that I regret buying my dog. I don’t. It was the right choice for me at the time I decided to get a dog. There is nothing wrong with that. I looked at my needs, multiple sources I could have gotten a dog from, and I chose the dog that was right for me. It’s worked out beautifully. Hypothetically, even if I didn’t regret it, there’s nothing I can do about it now so there’s no point in me sweating it.
What I am attempting to do is discuss the overpopulation problem. It’s a relevant problem to the article posted.It’s not just a matter of bad breeders. It’s a matter of bad breeders, good breeders, good rescues and a few bad ones, and overall lack of regulation and a definite lack of consistent regulation across the states, and economic incentives introducing new pets. Add the fact that pets are property and people can do what they want with their property, I don’t see rescue as the be-all end-all solution to fixing over population. It’s just not logical to me. If you’re open to discussing those things with me fine if not also fine but that is what I’ve been trying to do and why I’ve been citing sources to that effect.
Well, shutting down puppy mills is another option.
And the reason good breeders aren’t contributing to pet overpopulation is because they have waiting lists so each litter is spoken for prior to birth, leaving no puppies/kittens leftover to go to less than ideal homes or shelters or to get dumped.
Well, shutting down puppy mills is another option.
And the reason good breeders aren’t contributing to pet overpopulation is because they have waiting lists so each litter is spoken for prior to birth, leaving no puppies/kittens leftover to go to less than ideal homes or shelters or to get dumped.
I agree puppy mills should be shut down although I think this would also require legal regulations. It’s really appalling how inconsistent and sparse the regulations seem to be.
I’ve already said, not every rescue is reputable. Sure, there are some bad ones out there. Just like there are bad doctors, bad accountants, bad mechanics, bad hairdressers. But you’ve come to a conclusion that fits your needs, so you’re not interested in listening, learning the facts, etc. The truth is the majority of rescues are doing good work. Important, heartbreaking, frustrating work.
Why do you continue to double, triple, etc. down? Is it because deep down, you know you made a bad choice and you’re trying to justify that?
I’m not disputing that most rescues are doing good work. You seem to be under the impression that I regret buying my dog. I don’t. It was the right choice for me at the time I decided to get a dog. There is nothing wrong with that. I looked at my needs, multiple sources I could have gotten a dog from, and I chose the dog that was right for me. It’s worked out beautifully. Hypothetically, even if I didn’t regret it, there’s nothing I can do about it now so there’s no point in me sweating it.
What I am attempting to do is discuss the overpopulation problem. It’s a relevant problem to the article posted.It’s not just a matter of bad breeders. It’s a matter of bad breeders, good breeders, good rescues and a few bad ones, and overall lack of regulation and a definite lack of consistent regulation across the states, and economic incentives introducing new pets. Add the fact that pets are property and people can do what they want with their property, I don’t see rescue as the be-all end-all solution to fixing over population. It’s just not logical to me. If you’re open to discussing those things with me fine if not also fine but that is what I’ve been trying to do and why I’ve been citing sources to that effect.
I am not under the impression that you regret buying your dog. It’s quite clear that you don’t. I thought that maybe after learning more about this topic, you might do things differently next time. Obviously that’s not the case either.
And you’re really not trying to discuss the pet overpopulation problem. Not at all. You keep spouting falsehoods and are dismissing the multitude of facts and information that are being presented.
Sure, more regulations are a good thing. But the truth is, if people spayed and neutered their pets, treated them like family members and didn’t buy from breeders, we’d have a very small overpopulation problem.
Chuppathingy- JFC. You seem to have a lot of poorly informed opinions about a subject that you know jack shit about. My rage had simmered but your flagrant dumbassery brought it ALLLLLL right back. Go fucking volunteer.
Well, shutting down puppy mills is another option.
And the reason good breeders aren’t contributing to pet overpopulation is because they have waiting lists so each litter is spoken for prior to birth, leaving no puppies/kittens leftover to go to less than ideal homes or shelters or to get dumped.
I agree puppy mills should be shut down although I think this would also require legal regulations. It’s really appalling how inconsistent and sparse the regulations seem to be.
In addition to volunteering, I look forward to your advocacy and work to enhance and strengthen regulations in your city/county/state.
I saw a labradoodle one time that was really cute and made a casual comment to my sister about it. After both our rescues died (of old age and ailments) she went to buy us a puppy labradoodle as a surprise and then balked at the price. This is coming from someone that has a HHI of over $400k/year. It is insane what people pay for these dogs.
Our current dog is a rescue but we did the DNA test and she's a purebred. So ha! lol.
Well you don't know that a puppy will grow up to be good with kids either.
Anyway, let me give you an example of breeding to further/better the breed. This is Ernie. Ernie is an exotic shorthair, an officially recognized breed of cat that is essentially a shorthaired Persian, known as "Zot" for short. Ernie was bred in Russia and sold to a breeder in NJ. The NJ breeder chose not to use him in her breeding program and promptly had him neutered. Why? He doesn't meet breed standard. Oh, his head is absolutely perfect for a Zot. Low, rounded ears, round eyes, flat face, round, large head, short, dense fur. But the rest of his body does not conform. See, zots are supposed to have cobby bodies, like Persians. Short, muscular, compact, dense. Ernie has a long, lean body and long legs, just like a regular house cat. I've joked with people that he wouldn't make perfect kittens and they roll their eyes - but it's true. There's no shortage of kittens in the world, and if a breeder thinks a cat will produce kittens that won't even be up to breed standard, let alone pass on a desirable trait, like a color pattern, eye shape, or personality feature, they shouldn't do it.
Ernie also has a sweet and funny personality. He was given to a well-respected rescuer and that's how I ended up finding and adopting him. Though he is still purebred, he's in perfect health, and cost me $275. He also sleeps right next to me every night. You can get any pet you want from rescue if you are willing to search and wait - puppies, kittens, purebreds, mutts, large, small, even exotic pets.
And yes, requiring people to spay and neuter pets is a fine idea, but the enforcement is difficult and expensive.
Thank you for providing such a specific, good example. Based on what’s been said here I will look at rescues again next dog. I’m assuming based on this thread that there’s a good chance the requirements regarding visits after adoption or less onerous than they were when I got my dog. Or at least I’m hoping so because it sounds like that might have been area specific based on what several posters said about their volunteer experiences.
I wonder if something could be done at the local level regarding dog licensing re: enforcement? In my area the one regulation we have is that rabies shot evidence has to be provided to get a license for your dog. Licenses are technically required, but the reason people get them is that you have to have one to be allowed in any of the local dog parks. I admit it would be hard to enforce. I really think the crux of the issue with human behavior though. I think I mentioned him already but there’s a guy down the street from me who just lets his dog get repeatedly pregnant and throws his hands up and drop the puppies off at the SPCA every time. Several neighbors have called animal control but there’s nothing that says he can’t in local law apparently. That is what I think of when I think of backyard breeders. People who just can’t be bothered to get their pets fixed.
I’m not disputing that most rescues are doing good work. You seem to be under the impression that I regret buying my dog. I don’t. It was the right choice for me at the time I decided to get a dog. There is nothing wrong with that. I looked at my needs, multiple sources I could have gotten a dog from, and I chose the dog that was right for me. It’s worked out beautifully. Hypothetically, even if I didn’t regret it, there’s nothing I can do about it now so there’s no point in me sweating it.
What I am attempting to do is discuss the overpopulation problem. It’s a relevant problem to the article posted.It’s not just a matter of bad breeders. It’s a matter of bad breeders, good breeders, good rescues and a few bad ones, and overall lack of regulation and a definite lack of consistent regulation across the states, and economic incentives introducing new pets. Add the fact that pets are property and people can do what they want with their property, I don’t see rescue as the be-all end-all solution to fixing over population. It’s just not logical to me. If you’re open to discussing those things with me fine if not also fine but that is what I’ve been trying to do and why I’ve been citing sources to that effect.
I am not under the impression that you regret buying your dog. It’s quite clear that you don’t. I thought that maybe after learning more about this topic, you might do things differently next time. Obviously that’s not the case either.
And you’re really not trying to discuss the pet overpopulation problem. Not at all. You keep spouting falsehoods and are dismissing the multitude of facts and information that are being presented.
Sure, more regulations are a good thing. But the truth is, if people spayed and neutered their pets, treated them like family members and didn’t buy from breeders, we’d have a very small overpopulation problem.
I’ve cited sources. If you have some to counter them I’d be happy to read them. I thought that would be proof enough that I am not trying to spout falsehoods. I honestly don’t think I’ve seen anybody else site one.