@@ Against Kids Sports (the professionalization of...)

[neverfstop]

Another Anne Helen Petersen piece that's worth a read
annehelen.substack.com/p/against-kids-sports

This is a piece about the professionalization of children’s sports — and how that professionalization has transformed and degraded the desire to play, the desire to be part of something, even just the desire to move into class-siloed, life-swallowing regimentation. Somewhat ironically, this regimentation is fueled by its hazy promise (or at least a hope) to bypass the American class system and secure a route — through college scholarship, or, less commonly, through actual professional play — to stability.

In this way, professionalized kids’ sports manage to distill the decades’ long hollowing of the middle class and the quietly frantic parenting reactions to that destabilization. Participation is cloaked in the casual language of “fun” and “teamwork” and “we’re just doing it because our kid loves it so much,” justifications that only bolster the broken economic systems that have rendered the route to professionalization so attractive.

• It is a site of bourgeois class reproduction.
• t is a meritocracy fantasy machine
• It swallows families — and diminishes those who can’t afford to be swallowed
  
• It sucks the joy from the thing.
  
• It can also be a story of quiet coercion — with lifelong ramifications when it comes to body autonomy and image.
  

People are scrambling for a foothold when a safety net would be a much better investment. One way to look at the the professionalization of kids’ sports is like a poker game. A lot of people pay in, but most of them are “dead money.” Often, it’s already clear the money is going to. There are a lot of suckers, which is a hard and shitty thing to say about kids and families but it’s also the truth. It’s a form of gambling — and not the good kind — the kind rooted in desperation.



And you know what would ultimately cost a lot less — in time, in money, in psychological burden — than all of these leagues and coaches and travel? Collectively re-knitting the social safety net and reforming college education.

[sonrisa]

Sept 13, 2021 10:41:02 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

is fueled by its hazy promise (or at least a hope) to bypass the American class system

I think the opposite is true. Now that colleges are open to more people, sports are a way  wealthy people can secure their kids a spot. These sports programs cost more than a college savings plan would so it isn't really about scholarships. It's about buying access. 

[waverly]

If people want to pay the high prices and realize that their kid is not going to be a superstar/ just doing it for fun- then fine.

There are many that think that travel means then their kid will play in high school which means that they will get a scholarship. And then now that the scholarships for sports have been partially refuted (i.e. the amount you put into travel teams would be better off in a 529) then it has turned to admissions.

While it is partially true that a sport can help with admissions (wealthy families buy spots through variety of methods), the correlation has been inflated according to several admissions books that I have read recently. Here is the thread on that in Money Matters with one of the titles. pandce.proboards.com/thread/628162/fascinating-book-ppl-pay-college. We didn't get into the sports part here, but other admissions parts.

The other thing I have personally noticed are the families where the kids are in 20 activities and then brag about it. Oh they are in music, karate, religious studies, cheerleading, scouts, other sports etc etc etc. Its definitely not everyone, but there are a few families that list insane amounts of activities that are physically almost impossible and they aren't even in middle school yet. And I have to wonder how the kids feel being dragged to all these activities.

These travel teams have "try outs" and it is so awesome to make the team like a huge self esteem booster. But my cynical belief is that there are so many teams now, that basically they take 99% of the kids because then they get their money. Not sure if I am correct there, but I am always laughing at try outs for 7 year olds, and they all make the team.

[SusanBAnthony]

I agree about all of this.

We do have tryouts for parks and rec elementary school teams but that is 100% just to balance the teams so that one team doesn't have all the superstars.

I have never understood why parents want to push their kids so hard probably because I am fundamentally too lazy to spend all my free time hauling kids around and all my $$$ paying for it. But to be fair we are the least athletic family ever so there is no way in hell my kids are ever getting a college sports scholarship.

My disgust for the whole circus is mostly about asshole parents taking it to seriously and pushing their kids too much. They are KIDS. Let's promote a lifelong love of the activity, not give them an ACL tear as a teenager for heaven's sake

[chedifuen]

Yes, yes, yes! We've opted almost completely out of sports for our two kids. Our oldest has enjoyed some very casual rec league basketball. I just refuse to have it dominate our lives and I need my weekends to be relaxed. It's been one of the best family decisions we've made.

My 14 year old is over 6 foot. For years, the first question people ask us when they meet him is what sports does he play. Plenty of families seem to write us off completely when we say he doesn't play.

[formerlyak]

The competitive nature of club sports and even rec sports by us completely turned my older son off from sports when he was younger. He liked the team aspect of it, but didn't like being yelled at by coaches and other parents because he wasn't "good". It was AYSO or Little League for crying out loud. And, as pointed out up thread, basically anyone who can pay for it, can find a "club" team that will take them. Then they brag about their club team. It's so stupid.

DS is a golfer as I have mentioned before and spent a lot of time during the pandemic playing with my dad because it was something to get him out of the house. He ended up making the varsity team as a freshman last year and winning an athletic award at school, both totally unexpected since he'd been told by so many other parents and coaches how "bad" at sports he was in elementary school and middle school. My dad is now in treatments for cancer and we don't know how much time we have left with him. For ds, golf will always be his special thing with my dad. DS will tell you it was the best part of the pandemic. And he truly enjoys playing now with the other kids at school. He has also learned that here is a sort of network of college teams that play in tournaments - not the team sponsored by the college with the scholarships and all that, but just a group of kids who like to golf and want to play. It brings him a lot of joy and it's like his version of yoga or meditation. It keeps him grounded. And it started as something he did to get out of regular PE, but now he wants to keep playing. That's what a sport, or any activity, should be about in my mind. It should bring joy or happiness or something positive to the participant. When it gets beyond that, and it parent drive, it isn't good.

[sonrisa]

Sept 13, 2021 12:18:11 GMT -5 melmaria said:

 The only way to do year-round swimming at her age was to do competitive club swimming.  

This is what I love about DD's team. You can compete is the USAA swim meets if you are serious or you can just do the local casual ones. Likewise you can practice a few times a week or also sign up for the weekend and morning ones. 

[sonrisa]

Sept 13, 2021 12:34:31 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

The competitive nature of club sports and even rec sports by us completely turned my older son off from sports when he was younger. He liked the team aspect of it, but didn't like being yelled at by coaches and other parents because he wasn't "good"

My preschooler was told by a parent that she was "brave" (in a "I can't believe we have to put up with this clueless kid" kind of way) for participating in little league t-ball despite "having no experience"

[orval]

Sept 13, 2021 10:41:02 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Another Anne Helen Petersen piece that's worth a read
annehelen.substack.com/p/against-kids-sports

This is a piece about the professionalization of children’s sports — and how that professionalization has transformed and degraded the desire to play, the desire to be part of something, even just the desire to move into class-siloed, life-swallowing regimentation. Somewhat ironically, this regimentation is fueled by its hazy promise (or at least a hope) to bypass the American class system and secure a route — through college scholarship, or, less commonly, through actual professional play — to stability.

In this way, professionalized kids’ sports manage to distill the decades’ long hollowing of the middle class and the quietly frantic parenting reactions to that destabilization. Participation is cloaked in the casual language of “fun” and “teamwork” and “we’re just doing it because our kid loves it so much,” justifications that only bolster the broken economic systems that have rendered the route to professionalization so attractive.

• It is a site of bourgeois class reproduction.
• t is a meritocracy fantasy machine
• It swallows families — and diminishes those who can’t afford to be swallowed
  
• It sucks the joy from the thing.
  
• It can also be a story of quiet coercion — with lifelong ramifications when it comes to body autonomy and image.
  

People are scrambling for a foothold when a safety net would be a much better investment. One way to look at the the professionalization of kids’ sports is like a poker game. A lot of people pay in, but most of them are “dead money.” Often, it’s already clear the money is going to. There are a lot of suckers, which is a hard and shitty thing to say about kids and families but it’s also the truth. It’s a form of gambling — and not the good kind — the kind rooted in desperation.



And you know what would ultimately cost a lot less — in time, in money, in psychological burden — than all of these leagues and coaches and travel? Collectively re-knitting the social safety net and reforming college education.

Naomi Oasaka is a classic example of this.  Though she did make it professionally, she doesn't find any joy in it. Dad made her and here sister play to be like the Williams sisters.  I guess she's rich, so yay?

[sonrisa]

Sept 13, 2021 12:46:19 GMT -5 melmaria said:

Sept 13, 2021 12:38:35 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

This is what I love about DD's team. You can compete is the USAA swim meets if you are serious or you can just do the local casual ones. Likewise you can practice a few times a week or also sign up for the weekend and morning ones. 

My kid didn't have to compete in all of the meets (and a lot of them she wasn't eligible for anyway based on her times), but we still had to pay the same $$$$ monthly club dues as everyone else regardless.  That was the kicker lol.

Ours really strives to be a two level team that meets everyone's needs. The coach is really supportive of kids who swim for the camaraderie and exercise but also really pushes the top competitors to thrive. Costs are tied to your level of involvement and also have a sliding scale for means based discounts. It's practically the only sport around here that gets it right.

[krystee]

My parents wouldn’t let us play club/travel sports because they didn’t want all their free time to revolve around an 8-year-old’s hobby. I am grateful—we did a ton of time at their little cabin or playing in the backyard, and it was so relaxed and fun.

We are parenting the same way. They can do park district or school sports (or non-sport activities). I see my friends at ball fields for 12 hours a day both weekend days, and that sounds like my version of hell. Our 60-minute tball game that is five minutes away is perfect for me!

[frlcb]

I agree on the lack of rec sports, especially as they get older.

My son, who is 13, is not super athletic. He played soccer for years at a rec level and then aged out at 12. He now plays tennis, which is way more his speed. We never pushed him even though all his friends are crazy into baseball and football and soccer.

My daughter, who is 10, is a super competitive year round swimmer. She also plays rec soccer, because we don't want her to just do one sport at 10. She is on a U12 team and I love that there are girls joining who have never played before. Our kids should not have to pick a sport by the time they are 8. It's insane.

[formerlyak]

Sept 13, 2021 12:40:29 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Sept 13, 2021 12:34:31 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

The competitive nature of club sports and even rec sports by us completely turned my older son off from sports when he was younger. He liked the team aspect of it, but didn't like being yelled at by coaches and other parents because he wasn't "good"

My preschooler was told by a parent that she was "brave" (in a "I can't believe we have to put up with this clueless kid" kind of way) for participating in little league t-ball despite "having no experience"

Yep. Sounds about right. It's insane. My older son was cussed out by a drunk parent one night at a Little League game because the pitcher before him reached his pitch count and ds had the nerve to take his 4 allowed warm up pitches from the mound - during the game when the kids found out their assistant coach was killed in a car accident the night before, so they were already having a rough go of it. That was the day he decided he was done with baseball.

There is also a lot of sexist crap that goes on with some of the coaches. My younger son is actually decent at baseball. The second team he played on (right before it all shut down because of Covid), we had a coach who had a team meeting and in it he said he needed "dads to help on the field and a mom to be team mom." I said, "Or moms can help on the field and a dad can be a team dad", which was met by an eye roll by some of the dads. Then in our first game, ds got the ball, tagged second and threw to first to try and make a double play. A dad asked the coach, "What 5 year old knows how to try and make a double play?" I said, "The one who was taught to play by his mom." That stopped their sexist bs right there and I was "allowed" to help on the field. 

I will let my younger son play whatever sports or try whatever activity he asks to do, within reason, but I can't say I will be sad if he gives up some of this.

[twinmomma]

This year is my first foray into kid sports. My kids are nine and have showed zero interest in any sports up until now. At summer camp they discovered swimming as a sport and started asking the counselors/life guards to teach them the strokes. Then they decided to join the swim team at our local Boys and Girls Club. It's the perfect level of sports for us. Practice is three times a week, but it's only 45 minutes and they're there after school anyway. It keeps them active, they're feeling really proud of themselves for progressing in their skills, and they offer some low key rec style meets as the season progresses against other clubs.

[bears]

I really think people are losing touch with why there are kids sports. I ran in high school and learned to be competitive, got fit, made friends, set goals, and worked as a team. I never thought it would get me a scholarship or that I would be eligible to run in college, but that had nothing to do with why I ran.

I coached a girls team about 15 years back and was furious that one of the girls who LOVED the sport had to quit, as her parents wanted her to focus on competitive hockey. She hated it and was undergoing knee surgeries due to injuries but she played through the pain. I couldn't believe her parents and coaches were facilitating the permanent damage of her body at 16.

I really hope my kids can have an experience like mine where they play a sport, have fun, and it's the basis for a healthy attitude towards fitness as they get older. However, it's so competitive here, and I keep on hearing parents talk about getting private coaches so their young elementary-aged kids have a chance of playing a sport in HIGH SCHOOL. Why does playing a high school sport require so much money, time, and commitment when you're under 10?!

[waverly]

bears, yup, I've heard that a few times. I've decided if that is what it takes, then I guess my kids won't play HS sports.

I do still want to keep them active, but we can do that by non team sports as a family (tennis, golf, disc golf, hiking, skiing, biking, skateboarding, rollerblading). Or maybe there are some laid back intermurals. I know he will age out of rec soccer at 12, and I am sad about that.

But he'll have to figure that out. We didn't have any rec or travel sports leagues in elementary when I was growing up except softball/ baseball, so he already is getting more than I did.

[neverfstop]

How are places like the YMCA? Are those more like "for fun" and beginners? I always admired the intermural programs at college because everybody was encouraged to play in a wide variety of sport & you didn't need to be professional ability/skill or amazing to go out and have fun.

I'm always worried that my kid didn't start early enough...so even if we tried to sign them up now (for soccer maybe), I think they'd be behind others who have played for years.

[ellipses84]

I’m already feeling these things with my 10 year old. He started baseball when he was 5 (and was already too late for t-ball in the state we lived in that started at 2). We know lots of kids of travel teams and while our neighborhood league is less intense, the coaches focus on winning instead of overall team and player development has made a lot of kids quit. My 10 year old is at that point and I don’t know if he will play next year. It’s not fun for any of us if he’s not having fun. I did ask him to select another physical activity or music lessons instead but right now he is taking a break. The saddest part is he really loves sports and is pretty obsessed with watching games or playing soccer with friends at recess, but he feels like he’s not good enough to compete anymore.

My 5 year old has done Tball and soccer this year and half the kids on the team including him aren’t really mature enough for it but I felt like if we didn’t start him he’s always be behind his peers and then want to quit if he wasn’t as good. My parents didn’t sign me up for team sports as a kid and I was able to play on no-tryout sports in high school but had my share of disappointment in getting cut in tryouts in middle school and high school. If I could have just practiced with the team for a season I would have improved my skills so much. I do think there are benefits to being on a team and competing. We didn’t have money for rec sports or the time/ expense to get to /from practice and games. I had to quit sports HS in when I was old enough to get a job. I was able to join a new sport through a private gym that had evening hours and then I could pay for it and drive myself.

[breezy8407]

Having boy/girl twins while entering the travel sports world has been interesting. We have zero delusions either kid is going to make any team, continue into the following year, or getting a scholarship. H coached at the HS level and he is very level headed when it comes to our kids. H and I both played sports growing up and through varsity programs in HS and while he was much more athletic (well still is lets face it) than me, I still enjoyed it and took so much away from it and was very average. 

I do agree there were more rec offerings especially as the kids get into their teens. Maybe there are but we haven't gotten there yet. One of my biggest complaints is each sport association wants you to commit to them 100% in season. Well, DD plays softball and soccer, and here they are the same season. I refuse to make her specialize as a 9 year old. And, we are definitely not shelling out college tuition type money to play these sports. That won't be happening.

[smock]

Over the course of writing the last two books, I’ve talked to a lot of parents who feel they have no time for themselves, no actual leisure, no space to cultivate any skill or hobby that’s unrelated to their job or their role as a caregiver. The interstitials of their life (the time between work and home, or even the long interstitial between Friday and Monday) are wholly dictated by their kids’ schedules and, more specifically, their sports.

This right here is why we haven't done organized sports for either kid. Right now, 20+ months into a pandemic, even the thought of 1-2 practices/games a week feels overwhelming.

But I played sports through our local community center as a kid and it was a really good experience. I wonder how hard it is to recreate a 1980s/1990s approach to kids sports today. I'm guessing it depends on the location and sport.

[foundmylazybum]

The way that youth athletic development should go is (very broadly speaking), social and physical skill development early on leading to specification and enhanced competitiveness as the child ages.


But bc of capitalism it's much more profitable to create a specialized product out of millions of youth, sold on a dream of professional sports..at the cost of those youth burning our physically and mentally.


So that is what we live with.

[lauren170]

Well we’re in deep with figure skating. I 100% know my kid will never go to the Olympics or even Nationals, but she so talented for her age is sooo hard to pull back. She likes it a lot, but it requires more time and $ to keep remaining competitive. I wish we never started - that’s all i can say.

[eddy]

I will rant on this topic until the day I die lol.

Also I am very happy my oldest son loves running sports. As those are the type of sports you can easily pick up. Sure there might be kids who have done camps and whatever, but a novice can also pick the sport up at an appropriate age.

He also loves baseball but has only ever played city leagues. Now as we approach freshman year baseball we are worried he hasn't gotten enough experience (eye roll) to make the high school freshman team. It is just ludicrous. To get our kids a spot on a public school baseball team we will have had to pay upwards of 5-10K in travel league fees. And he started to really get into baseball at an age appropriate time, which was junior high. Before that he would have never loved it enough to be on a travel team. Time will tell if he will get a spot.

And my youngest. He is just kind of timid so I feel like his opportunity to even get into a sport has passed him by and he is only in 4th grade.

[amberlyrose]

My cousin actually just called me crying about this earlier today. Along with small town politics, her HS senior texted her to say that she was done with sports. She doesn't enjoy it and the bullying by the coaches at school made it so bad that she quit everything. My cousin never pushed them to get involved in it, but the girls are gifted athletes so they put everything into it- weekends, travel teams, etc. She wishes she had never done it at this point because it has made her daughter hate school and sports.

Sending her this piece later this week when she has time to digest it all.

[StrawberryBlondie]

My daughter is a swimmer and wants to compete pretty badly. We're going to make her wait til she's 9 or 10. We looked into competitive programs around here for kids her age (7) and they're 1). Super expensive and 2). Super time consuming.

There's a swim team through our local YMCA that requires a minimum of 3 practices a week... And those practices are on weekdays at 4 pm. Schools in the area get out at 3:55. I emailed the coach and asked how that works with school release times and he basically said "many kids come late and still get a lot out of 40-45 min of practice." People actually do that?

But... She. Is. 7. She doesn't need to train 3 hours a week for crying out loud. She shouldn't need to commit to only one sport at age 7.

[gardengal]

I was talking to a parent about local youth cycling teams. The one he found/was talking to was mandatory 3x/wk practice. Races are all “travel” & take up most of a weekend day. His kid is 8!!! And the team wouldn’t accept anything less than 💯 commitment …”otherwise you just don’t want it enough.”

Completely the wrong attitude to get kids excited in a lesser done sport!

[brady2012]

Sept 13, 2021 13:25:22 GMT -5 waverly said:

bears , yup, I've heard that a few times. I've decided if that is what it takes, then I guess my kids won't play HS sports.

I do still want to keep them active, but we can do that by non team sports as a family (tennis, golf, disc golf, hiking, skiing, biking, skateboarding, rollerblading). Or maybe there are some laid back intermurals. I know he will age out of rec soccer at 12, and I am sad about that.

But he'll have to figure that out. We didn't have any rec or travel sports leagues in elementary when I was growing up except softball/ baseball, so he already is getting more than I did.

I'm not sure how prevalent this is, but our large league that has both rec and travel recently added a division of rec soccer for high school age kids.  I was so happy to see that.  My daughter loves to play at the rec level, but she does another sport which is looking like it will be her primary competitive sport.  I'm happy she has an avenue to continue playing through high school. 

[Jalapeñomel]

I have zero desire to get up at 6 am on Saturday for games.

That said, if my kid really wanted to do it, we’d do it for fun. I’m not shelling out $$$$ to keep up with the Jones’.

[jaylea]

I hate hate hate how crazy intense kids sports have become and I would even say that the specialization and prevalence of travel leagues is ruining kids sports.

I’ve got two kids. My daughter (high school) plays three sports. The same three she started in rec leagues as a little kid. Sometimes she gets down on not being Among the best at each sport, but I remind her she plays THREE sports well, also plays a couple of instruments and is a great student and has time with friends. The “best”’play the one sport year round. Let them be the best, who cares, have fun and be a good teammate your teammates can count on.

My son plays on a town soccer team. We are the city and the wealthy suburbs are all way into their programs. Yesterday he had two games against two different teams in one of the tonier towns around. Their coaches were yelling at the kids, the kids were yelling at the refs, one kid got thrown out for intentionally tripping/slide tackling our team. THEY ARE TEN. Our ragtag little team of misfits won both games, with our calm coach who sits with the kids and quietly coaches them when they come out for subs. It made me proud of what our team does and disgusted with whys happening in other places. Also, We totally thought it was a double header with the same team - not that they were having us play a fresh team after a whole game!

[laurack]

I’ve been feeling a bit guilty about not putting my kids in sports as it seems everyone I know has their kids in multiple sports. We didn’t even do the local soccer this fall because I just didn’t want to deal with losing every fall weekend and two weeknights to it.

Selfishly I guess we’ve decided to do activities we can all do together- we hike and bike and we ski in winter.

Part of me feels bad though - like due to the competitive nature of sports if say in middle school or high school my son or daughter wants to try a team sport but they can’t because they haven’t been playing since they were 3. I really hope doing things casually just for fun can still be a thing.