A CNN update states that their attorneys were able to get in contact with them. They were not on the run, they had left town after the shooting for their own safety, and they are returning now to turn themselves in and be arraigned. However there was a cutoff time of 4:30 ET and if they don't meet that, it will have to happen tomorrow.
I am struggling to deal with this one, and I’m usually pretty good at compartmentalizing these tragedies. I’m a HS teacher, and knowing that the classroom teachers saw the signs and alerted administration LIKE WE ARE TOLD TO DO and it still didn’t save the situation makes me feel very helpless and very… scapegoated in some ways. We are expected to do EVERYTHING in our classes and be responsible for all students and all education and all mental health and it is just too much to be on our backs, especially when the other parties in this situation (admins, counselors, SROs, PARENTS) were not seemingly on the same wavelength.
And that may be an unfair assessment right at this moment, but I am completely dumbfounded that the backpack was not searched and that he was allowed to return to class. What the FUCK are we doing reporting this shit if nothing can or will actually be done about it? I cannot get those teachers who reported the student off my mind and I pray they are able to find peace in this horrible situation.
The school employees who allowed him go back to class were completely and utterly negligent. If I were a parent of a child at this school, I would be livid and potentially looking at some sort of legal action. And I’m not a “sue happy” person.
The parents' arraignment had been scheduled for late Friday afternoon, but as of 5 p.m. the parents were still missing, according to the Oakland County Sheriff's Office.
Undersheriff Michael McCabe told CNN that a sergeant with the county's fugitive task force had spoken with one of the attorneys, who said she had not actually talked with the parents.
I am struggling to deal with this one, and I’m usually pretty good at compartmentalizing these tragedies. I’m a HS teacher, and knowing that the classroom teachers saw the signs and alerted administration LIKE WE ARE TOLD TO DO and it still didn’t save the situation makes me feel very helpless and very… scapegoated in some ways. We are expected to do EVERYTHING in our classes and be responsible for all students and all education and all mental health and it is just too much to be on our backs, especially when the other parties in this situation (admins, counselors, SROs, PARENTS) were not seemingly on the same wavelength.
And that may be an unfair assessment right at this moment, but I am completely dumbfounded that the backpack was not searched and that he was allowed to return to class. What the FUCK are we doing reporting this shit if nothing can or will actually be done about it? I cannot get those teachers who reported the student off my mind and I pray they are able to find peace in this horrible situation.
The school employees who allowed him go back to class were completely and utterly negligent. If I were a parent of a child at this school, I would be livid and potentially looking at some sort of legal action. And I’m not a “sue happy” person.
I’ve been pondering this.
Schools act in loco parentis, so theoretically, if the parents are deemed negligent in not searching his bag, then so is the administrator who handled this.
And the school has a cop. They could have called in the SRO to search his stuff too.
I am struggling to deal with this one, and I’m usually pretty good at compartmentalizing these tragedies. I’m a HS teacher, and knowing that the classroom teachers saw the signs and alerted administration LIKE WE ARE TOLD TO DO and it still didn’t save the situation makes me feel very helpless and very… scapegoated in some ways. We are expected to do EVERYTHING in our classes and be responsible for all students and all education and all mental health and it is just too much to be on our backs, especially when the other parties in this situation (admins, counselors, SROs, PARENTS) were not seemingly on the same wavelength.
And that may be an unfair assessment right at this moment, but I am completely dumbfounded that the backpack was not searched and that he was allowed to return to class. What the FUCK are we doing reporting this shit if nothing can or will actually be done about it? I cannot get those teachers who reported the student off my mind and I pray they are able to find peace in this horrible situation.
The school employees who allowed him go back to class were completely and utterly negligent. If I were a parent of a child at this school, I would be livid and potentially looking at some sort of legal action. And I’m not a “sue happy” person.
There's no way there isn't a lawsuit against the school for not responding to the alerts that were brought up about this family. The way they handled this is unfathomable to me.
Post by Velar Fricative on Dec 3, 2021 18:41:09 GMT -5
We don’t live in MI so maybe the laws are different, but my husband seems to believe that if a parent refuses to take their kid home after a meeting with a principal, the kid can’t be forced to leave unless there’s a crime committed. In his experience, most parents do just take their kids home but otherwise he’s not sure if the administration here was truly negligent or if their hands were tied.
I assumed the ammo search and the picture constituted an official threat which would be a criminal offense but maybe not?
I think the parents may not be alive anymore. I mean, their kid is going to prison for forever, or nearly forever, they’re going to lose everything in lawsuits, and they’re going to jail for a good chunk of time. They also know they have blood on their hands. It wouldn’t surprise me.
We don’t live in MI so maybe the laws are different, but my husband seems to believe that if a parent refuses to take their kid home after a meeting with a principal, the kid can’t be forced to leave unless there’s a crime committed. In his experience, most parents do just take their kids home but otherwise he’s not sure if the administration here was truly negligent or if their hands were tied.
I assumed the ammo search and the picture constituted an official threat which would be a criminal offense but maybe not?
It seems that note he wrote in class could have easily been considered a threat to the school though, which would be a crime.
We don’t live in MI so maybe the laws are different, but my husband seems to believe that if a parent refuses to take their kid home after a meeting with a principal, the kid can’t be forced to leave unless there’s a crime committed. In his experience, most parents do just take their kids home but otherwise he’s not sure if the administration here was truly negligent or if their hands were tied.
I assumed the ammo search and the picture constituted an official threat which would be a criminal offense but maybe not?
I don't see how any reasonable person wouldn't consider the ammo search and picture a threat.
They'd need a warrant to search his backpack, but i think that could have been obtained if they called the police and presented that info.
I think they should have asked to search his backpack and if not given permission, it should have been sent home with the parents, or they call the police to search it before the kid is allowed back to class with the backpack. PERIOD.
Regardless of what kind of laws tie the school administrators' hands, there is no reason he should have been allowed to return to class, even if that meant he had to sit in the principal's office all day with his backpack sitting across the room from him.
My predictions. Not that anyone was going to do anything about guns, but here’s the extra “ammo” to examine anything else but guns and even defend his parents: -administration failure to contain the student after the meeting -no metal detectors (which I wouldn’t support but gunnies want) -school closures last year due to pandemic -Obama admin’s guidance on exclusionary discipline
We don’t live in MI so maybe the laws are different, but my husband seems to believe that if a parent refuses to take their kid home after a meeting with a principal, the kid can’t be forced to leave unless there’s a crime committed. In his experience, most parents do just take their kids home but otherwise he’s not sure if the administration here was truly negligent or if their hands were tied.
I assumed the ammo search and the picture constituted an official threat which would be a criminal offense but maybe not?
Yes. I am obviously not an expert in this but I hate how now the school staff are getting blamed. Like it’s absolute shit that school staff have to be trained to know the legalities of all this stuff and worrying about school shootings. Let’s place the blame on the correct people here. The murderer and his parents…and the fact that guns are so easy to access and glorified in this country. It’s very easy to Monday morning quarterback and this is how people justify "over policing" for safety, instead of looking at the root causes of violence and our horrific number of gun deaths.
We don’t live in MI so maybe the laws are different, but my husband seems to believe that if a parent refuses to take their kid home after a meeting with a principal, the kid can’t be forced to leave unless there’s a crime committed. In his experience, most parents do just take their kids home but otherwise he’s not sure if the administration here was truly negligent or if their hands were tied.
I assumed the ammo search and the picture constituted an official threat which would be a criminal offense but maybe not?
Yes. I am obviously not an expert in this but I hate how now the school staff are getting blamed. Like it’s absolute shit that school staff have to be trained to know the legalities of all this stuff and worrying about school shootings. Let’s place the blame on the correct people here. The murderer and his parents…and the fact that guns are so easy to access and glorified in this country. It’s very easy to Monday morning quarterback and this is how people justify "over policing" for safety, instead of looking at the root causes of violence and our horrific number of gun deaths.
Lockers can be searched at any time because they are owned by the school. The legal standard for backpack or purse search on a campus is pretty low, just reasonable suspicion.
Yes. I am obviously not an expert in this but I hate how now the school staff are getting blamed. Like it’s absolute shit that school staff have to be trained to know the legalities of all this stuff and worrying about school shootings. Let’s place the blame on the correct people here. The murderer and his parents…and the fact that guns are so easy to access and glorified in this country. It’s very easy to Monday morning quarterback and this is how people justify "over policing" for safety, instead of looking at the root causes of violence and our horrific number of gun deaths.
Lockers can be searched at any time because they are owned by the school. The legal standard for backpack or purse search on a campus is pretty low, just reasonable suspicion.
And if we start encouraging this, what kind of kids do you think are suddenly going to be getting searched more often because of “reasonable suspicion”?
Yes. I am obviously not an expert in this but I hate how now the school staff are getting blamed. Like it’s absolute shit that school staff have to be trained to know the legalities of all this stuff and worrying about school shootings. Let’s place the blame on the correct people here. The murderer and his parents…and the fact that guns are so easy to access and glorified in this country. It’s very easy to Monday morning quarterback and this is how people justify "over policing" for safety, instead of looking at the root causes of violence and our horrific number of gun deaths.
Lockers can be searched at any time because they are owned by the school. The legal standard for backpack or purse search on a campus is pretty low, just reasonable suspicion.
Ok…I wasn’t saying anything about that specifically. I’m just saying that it plays right in to the narrative that guns aren’t actually the problem because let’s blame everyone else, the school and the police, for not stopping this, instead of focusing on the real problem…easy access to guns in this country in the first place.
Lockers can be searched at any time because they are owned by the school. The legal standard for backpack or purse search on a campus is pretty low, just reasonable suspicion.
And if we start encouraging this, what kind of kids do you think are suddenly going to be getting searched more often because of “reasonable suspicion”?
Lockers can be searched at any time because they are owned by the school. The legal standard for backpack or purse search on a campus is pretty low, just reasonable suspicion.
And if we start encouraging this, what kind of kids do you think are suddenly going to be getting searched more often because of “reasonable suspicion”?
I’m not encouraging it. I’m simply saying what the standard is.
We don’t live in MI so maybe the laws are different, but my husband seems to believe that if a parent refuses to take their kid home after a meeting with a principal, the kid can’t be forced to leave unless there’s a crime committed. In his experience, most parents do just take their kids home but otherwise he’s not sure if the administration here was truly negligent or if their hands were tied.
I assumed the ammo search and the picture constituted an official threat which would be a criminal offense but maybe not?
Yes. I am obviously not an expert in this but I hate how now the school staff are getting blamed. Like it’s absolute shit that school staff have to be trained to know the legalities of all this stuff and worrying about school shootings. Let’s place the blame on the correct people here. The murderer and his parents…and the fact that guns are so easy to access and glorified in this country. It’s very easy to Monday morning quarterback and this is how people justify "over policing" for safety, instead of looking at the root causes of violence and our horrific number of gun deaths.
I understand what you’re saying and place full blame on this student and his parents. However, when I take my kids to school, I do so with the assumption that the school is taking the right steps to ensure their safety. They keep exterior doors locked. They take threats seriously. If a student is searching for ammunition and drawing alarming pictures, they are very critically examining the threat this presents.
As a parent, I am not privy to this information. I don’t get told that a child drew a threatening image and searched for ammunition. I can’t make the decision, on behalf of my child, to keep him home and safe.
I don’t like it, but this is the reality of where we live. There is negligence in how the concerns (which were properly run up the chain of command by teachers) were handled by school administrators.
If we’re not going to do anything about gun violence in this country, then schools and other institutions will continue to have to take on an oversized role in protecting people in their care from people like that murderer.
Lockers can be searched at any time because they are owned by the school. The legal standard for backpack or purse search on a campus is pretty low, just reasonable suspicion.
Ok…I wasn’t saying anything about that specifically. I’m just saying that it plays right in to the narrative that guns aren’t actually the problem because let’s blame everyone else, the school and the police, for not stopping this, instead of focusing on the real problem…easy access to guns in this country in the first place.
Agree completely. That is why I ultimately think people will defend his parents, because they won’t like them being told how to store guns or keep them away from kids.
It takes a lot to restrict someone’s access to the classroom, and even though the letter was really scary and concerning, it wasn’t a direct threat so I don’t think they could send him to crisis. The fact that the parents didn’t immediately take him home or try to get him some emergency help is just unbelievable. I’m so angry and sad.
Ok…I wasn’t saying anything about that specifically. I’m just saying that it plays right in to the narrative that guns aren’t actually the problem because let’s blame everyone else, the school and the police, for not stopping this, instead of focusing on the real problem…easy access to guns in this country in the first place.
Agree completely. That is why I ultimately think people will defend his parents, because they won’t like them being told how to store guns or keep them away from kids.
While i'm sure you are right, I'm hopeful that at least some gun owners I know will agree that these parents are culpable on several levels.
1) bought him the gun 2) excused and laughed about his search for ammo while in school 3) didn't connect that they just bought him a gun and he is drawing f-ing pictures about hurting people... and they just left him at school -- even before knowing where all their guns were (I mean, at least send one parent home to inventory the guns in the house and report back - or FFS look in his f-ing backpack mom and dad).
It takes a lot to restrict someone’s access to the classroom, and even though the letter was really scary and concerning, it wasn’t a direct threat so I don’t think they could send him to crisis. The fact that the parents didn’t immediately take him home or try to get him some emergency help is just unbelievable. I’m so angry and sad.
PDQ
During my daughter's freshman year I was called to the school by her counselor because she had let an adult know she was cutting. I had to take her to be evaluated, she could not return to class. I wonder how this falls into this spectrum of allowing students to return to class and harm to self and/or others.
Yes. I am obviously not an expert in this but I hate how now the school staff are getting blamed. Like it’s absolute shit that school staff have to be trained to know the legalities of all this stuff and worrying about school shootings. Let’s place the blame on the correct people here. The murderer and his parents…and the fact that guns are so easy to access and glorified in this country. It’s very easy to Monday morning quarterback and this is how people justify "over policing" for safety, instead of looking at the root causes of violence and our horrific number of gun deaths.
I understand what you’re saying and place full blame on this student and his parents. However, when I take my kids to school, I do so with the assumption that the school is taking the right steps to ensure their safety. They keep exterior doors locked. They take threats seriously. If a student is searching for ammunition and drawing alarming pictures, they are very critically examining the threat this presents.
As a parent, I am not privy to this information. I don’t get told that a child drew a threatening image and searched for ammunition. I can’t make the decision, on behalf of my child, to keep him home and safe.
I don’t like it, but this is the reality of where we live. There is negligence in how the concerns (which were properly run up the chain of command by teachers) were handled by school administrators.
If we’re not going to do anything about gun violence in this country, then schools and other institutions will continue to have to take on an oversized role in protecting people in their care from people like that murderer.
Yes and from what I saw the school did step in a do something, it’s not like they completely ignored the situation. That’s why I said it’s easy to Monday morning quarterback the situation now to say the school should’ve arrested him or put him under security watch in a locked room which to me seem like the only 2 options to have actually stopped him at the moment, but it’s not always so black and white in the situation.
“ A law enforcement official told CNN that the parents withdrew $4,000 from an ATM in Rochester Hills, Michigan, on Friday. Rochester is about 10 to 15 miles from Oxford.
Law enforcement had been able to track the couple's whereabouts by cell phone pings but can no longer do so as the couple's cell phones are turned off, the official said.
The source did not specify when the phones were turned off.
The parents' arraignment had been scheduled for late Friday afternoon, but as of Friday evening the parents were still missing, according to the Oakland County Sheriff's Office.”
I understand what you’re saying and place full blame on this student and his parents. However, when I take my kids to school, I do so with the assumption that the school is taking the right steps to ensure their safety. They keep exterior doors locked. They take threats seriously. If a student is searching for ammunition and drawing alarming pictures, they are very critically examining the threat this presents.
As a parent, I am not privy to this information. I don’t get told that a child drew a threatening image and searched for ammunition. I can’t make the decision, on behalf of my child, to keep him home and safe.
I don’t like it, but this is the reality of where we live. There is negligence in how the concerns (which were properly run up the chain of command by teachers) were handled by school administrators.
If we’re not going to do anything about gun violence in this country, then schools and other institutions will continue to have to take on an oversized role in protecting people in their care from people like that murderer.
Yes and from what I saw the school did step in a do something, it’s not like they completely ignored the situation. That’s why I said it’s easy to Monday morning quarterback the situation now to say the school should’ve arrested him or put him under security watch in a locked room which to me seem like the only 2 options to have actually stopped him at the moment, but it’s not always so black and white in the situation.
I agree with you, but I still think the expectations are going to increase on how schools respond and I’ll be really surprised if the school isn’t sued.
Yes and from what I saw the school did step in a do something, it’s not like they completely ignored the situation. That’s why I said it’s easy to Monday morning quarterback the situation now to say the school should’ve arrested him or put him under security watch in a locked room which to me seem like the only 2 options to have actually stopped him at the moment, but it’s not always so black and white in the situation.
I agree with you, but I still think the expectations are going to increase on how schools respond and I’ll be really surprised if the school isn’t sued.
Yep I agree that’s going to happen, hence my posts disagreeing with blaming the school, suing them and the calls for more school security without addressing the underlying problem of easy access to guns in this country.