Small update in OP -- Wanna weigh in on friend drama?!

[mokes]

For those invested ... yesterday after talking with H about what he'd want to happen, I responded to the text following the sage advice of flygirl/eddy/cville 

Me: Hey, good to hear from you, it's been a long time. We're free the next 2 weekends, let us know when and where!
Lauren: Yes. It's been WAY too long. We were just talking about how much we miss you guys. Let me talk with Craig and see when he's available.

(Don't be fooled by the "we were just talking ..." -- that's how she always texts, lol.)

I'm easy, breezy, beautiful Covergirl.   Except I couldn't resist making mention of how long it's been b/c I just felt insane not to acknowledge it and at least put it out there subtly that we're not just picking right up like nothing happened.

Her response was 2 p.m. yesterday; I will update if anything more comes of it!

--
V. long story, will skip as many details as I can but it will still be long! I changed names but might delete.

H and I were best friends with another couple for many years. (H had been best friends with the other husband -- let's call him Craig -- since preschool. I was friends with Craig since I was 16, before I even knew my husband -- we're all from the same town.) The three of us had been super close since I started dating my H in 2003. Craig met his now wife, Lauren, around 2012ish and the 4 of us became friends; I also hung out with Lauren 1:1. We were all together all the time.

H and I don't have kids. In 2018, they had their first. They sort of fell off the planet, as to be expected. We thought it'd be like our other friends who've had kids and they'd come up for air after a few months and we'd get into a new routine. But it never really happened ... they pulled away and spent most of their time w/ family or friends who have kids. We hung out a little bit, but much less.

Then COVID happened, and we didn't see them at all as Lauren was pregnant. We met the new baby in late summer 2020. We tried to reach out more after that, resume the friendship, but it didn't really take.

Later in the year, Craig told H they were upset with us because we didn't come to his son's bday party. We had never received the invitation (and so also never RSVP'd, so unclear why they expected us to be there ... maybe it was regrets only?). They didn't believe us. I was floored that after so many years of friendship, never missing any milestones, that we hadn't earned any benefit of the doubt. H tried to address it and Craig was like, whatever, let's move on. That's when the friendship basically stopped, maybe we saw them once after that. I don't know if that's why from their perspective but it's the only thing I could pinpoint as "happening." At first I was so upset, but after some time I had more of a "fuck them" attitude ... I know in my heart we did nothing wrong, we were great friends to them and they completely dropped us.

(There's another guy -- George -- who was in the original friend group from preschool to adulthood with H and Craig. He lives far away now, but he also says he barely ever talks to Craig now. George blames it on Lauren, he thinks Craig isn't "allowed" to talk on the phone to him. I asked him why he thinks that and he admitted he doesn't have a reason to blame Lauren, he just says he doesn't think he ever hit it off with her and that the only time Craig calls him is when he's driving somewhere and Lauren isn't around. I only include this because I'm not really sure if that event above was significant or if they cut us all off for unknown reasons. Has she just tolerated us the whole time? In the past I had witnessed Lauren sabotaging other friendships ... so there is part of me that wonders if he's right. But it's possible we're all just grasping for an explanation.)

At the end of last year, H threw me a 40th bday party. We invited them; they came. It was awkward, which was really sad. That's the last time we saw them. H is in a group chat with Craig and George, so they all text here and there.

A few months ago, H tried reaching out to Craig via text and said how he missed their friendship, wanted to talk, etc. Craig never responded.

Yesterday and today, each of them separately reached out to us. The text I got from the wife said "We missed your birthday! Wanted to wish you a belated birthday, hope you had a wonderful holiday. We had the stomach flu for 2 weeks. Are you guys free at all the next few weeks? If so, give me a few dates you guys are available and we'll get a sitter. Take you out to celebrate."

Like ... what? I have no interest in just pretending we're still friends. I haven't heard from her in over a year! If they actually want to address the situation, OK, but that wasn't the vibe of the text.  

I'm curious ... would you respond? If so, what would you say?? If it were me alone, I'd ignore it, but George and Craig were H's 2 best friends his whole life. He's still friends with George but since he lives a flight away we only see him and his wife once or twice a year. So I guess I feel for him that he doesn't have a ton of friends -- most of our friends are more "my" friends. But he put his heart out there and Craig didn't give a fuck!

[CurlyQ284]

I would definitely read the text to H and ask what he wants to do. Is he missing his friend and wants to see if things can be repaired, or is he done?

[ssmjlm]

So DH has a similar situation where we pulled away from a long time best friend because we weren't meshing anymore.

But I think deep down DH would still do anything for him. So I would guess if you want to at least keep an arm's length friendship, it's worth throwing out a couple dates and seeing if she bites. It could amount to nothing if you can never agree on a date.

Or keep the eff them attitude, that works too.

[pixy0stix]

You've witnessed Lauren sabotaging other friends. You have your culprit.

[mokes]

Jan 2, 2024 16:45:38 GMT -5 CurlyQ284 said:

I would definitely read the text to H and ask what he wants to do. Is he missing his friend and wants to see if things can be repaired, or is he done?

Oh yes that's the first thing I did! He is open to however I want to respond to her.

[bex1973]

Honestly I'd personally give them the benefit of the doubt, I struggled a lot when my kid was little with maintaining friendships. Maybe they're at the point where they regret or have reevaluated past actions? Or they realize how much they miss you?

BUT - it really is ok if you decide you don't want to reconnect. I've been teaching my kid that just like she gets to choose when the time is right for her to apologize the other party gets to decide when the time is right for them to accept.

[donutsmakemegonuts]

Texting after all that time had passed and acting like nothing was wrong is strange. Do you want to continue a relationship with these people? Not just because you're afraid your husband won't have any friends, but genuinely do you want to socialize with this couple? Because if yes, it will most likely be awkward. I hate awkwardness so that alone would make me not want to resurrect this relationship, especially after the ghosting. But if you genuinely miss these people and want to hang out, I would go for it. And talk to your DH about it of course.

[flygirl]

If your H wants to see his friend to try to maintain it, I’d throw out 2-3 dates and see if they work. If they don’t respond or start throwing out different dates, I’d be over it.

[noodleoo]

What did the message from Craig to your H say? Sounds like they were closer than you were with Lauren, so I’d let him decide whether he wants to try again or not.

To play devils advocate, maybe they are finally coming out of the young kid fog and realizing they miss you guys. Having young kids is really hard and Covid made it a thousand times worse. That doesn’t excuse the way they treated you, but if you enjoyed their company before, maybe it is worth giving them a chance to see if things have changed?

[nicolewi]

I'd give it a shot. You used to be good friends. At worst, you have an awkward night out. At best, you start to rebuild a relationship that might be important to you all. I don't really see that there's much to lose by going out with them.

The bday party thing is weird. But I also do think it can be really hard maintaining friendships when you have little kids. 

[waverly]

Did you go to the other birthday parties?

We have a similar story with friends and due to that my gut is seeing them again would still be very awkward. I would let your H drive that bus though for the closer friendship between him and Craig. He may want to reach out separately to Craig.

A few other random thoughts: Some people don’t understand that people don’t want to come to their kid’s birthday parties especially the ones for kids not like the 1 year old party that is for adults. Typically that is for super close friends and family or people with kids that are the same age. I’ve been to 100 birthday parties. Now that I have older kids and no desire to go to a 2 year old parties again now that my kids are 11 and 13. We are not the intended audience.

My family does a lot of phone calls during our commute. It’s the perfect time for phone calls. So I wouldn’t read more into it than it’s convenient because once you get home it’s family stuff, dinner, extra curriculars, homework bedtime etc. It gets really busy.

[mokes]

Jan 2, 2024 16:55:29 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

What did the message from Craig to your H say? Sounds like they were closer than you were with Lauren, so I’d let him decide whether he wants to try again or not.

To play devils advocate, maybe they are finally coming out of the young kid fog and realizing they miss you guys. Having young kids is really hard and Covid made it a thousand times worse. That doesn’t excuse the way they treated you, but if you enjoyed their company before, maybe it is worth giving them a chance to see if things have changed?

It wished us a happy anniversary (we got married on new year's eve) and asked what we did for new year's. So kinda same vibe as Lauren's ... just picking up like we've been chatting this whole time lol.

[emilyinchile]

If there's a way to make excuses that you personally are swamped these next few weeks, but say your H and Craig should get together now, with a raincheck for a couple evening, I think I'd do that. Let them feel things out first and go from there.

This is all so weird and crappy though! Oh, and just for the gossip, what kind of stuff have you seen Lauren do to other friendships?

ETA: IF they actually want to address the situation, I could see them sending those kind of generic texts and then having the actual conversation in person because it's big enough to be something they don't want to do over text. I wouldn't necessarily say the texts mean they're just trying to act like it's all totally normal. But also you know them, so maybe you know they're more likely to just avoid it all.

[cuadrado]

I would first decide what you and your H want out of the situation. Do you want to be friends with them? Do you want to let the friendship go?

[maudefindlay]

Maybe they found your invite to that bday party under their driver seat when vacuuming out their car and now they believe you. No, this is all very weird. You don't throw away a life long friendship over a missed kid bday party, that's an extreme response. I'd let your DH take the lead on this. Also, what emilyinchile said, let's hear about sabotaging other friendships.

[tacokick]

My first thought would be that the text was meant for someone else and ignore it, honestly!

Maybe if your birthday last year went well, I’d think otherwise but it was awkward.

Assuming the text is for you since they also reached out to your husband, I’d still ignore. They sound exhausting.

[cjcouple]

As someone who had no desire to socialize when I had small kids, my opinion is definitely colored. I'd try to get together. It's possible the new year has them wanting to make some changes and repair friendships lost.

[mokes]

Jan 2, 2024 16:58:47 GMT -5 waverly said:

Did you go to the other birthday parties?

My family does a lot of phone calls during our commute. It’s the perfect time for phone calls. So I wouldn’t read more into it than it’s convenient because once you get home it’s family stuff, dinner, extra curriculars, homework bedtime etc. It gets really busy.

There had only been 1 at that time, but yes. (Son was born 2018, so we went to the first bday in 2019. 2020 is the one we weren't invited to/didn't go to.) We weren't invited if there were any bday parties in 2021 or 2022.

The commute thing was George's thing, not me. (I'm getting confused by my own fake names lol.)

[pixy0stix]

For the kids birthday, I bet Lauren didn't invite you, but didn't tell Craig that she didn't invite you. He probably said something about you not coming to her and she lied about it.

[VillainV]

Oh wow. I wonder if they made some kind of joint NY resolution to reconnect with people they’ve pulled back from over the last few years.

Do you feel comfortable talking to Lauren on the phone right now? Maybe just try calling her and having a talk and see how it goes. Same thing with H and Craig. Start slow, with low expectations. If they flake on phone calls, there’s no way they’d actually meet you for dinner. But maybe it will go well and you can reconnect slowly.

FWIW, I call people in the car because it’s convenient. We have an open floor plan and it’s hard to talk on the phone without bothering my entire household, so H and I either go outside for phone calls (when the weather is nice) or call while driving.

[gummy]

I'd either ghost or say "let me check our calendar" and then ghost. They've been ghosting you for years.

[klee23]

Like PP said- what do you want as best case scenario outcome? If you want to re-establish a friendship replying with potential dates is step 1 in getting there. If you just don't want it to be awkward if you run in to them then feign a busy schedule and more on with your life.

[mokes]

Jan 2, 2024 16:59:23 GMT -5 emilyinchile said:

Oh, and just for the gossip, what kind of stuff have you seen Lauren do to other friendships?

Haha. So here's an example. Early on when Lauren first started hanging out, she invited us to go with her and Craig to her friend's house for 4th of July. 

Lauren is a great cook, went to culinary school and made a ton of food for this party. She was super angry when we left -- said she was never going to speak to her friend who hosted again. That she had made all this food and her friend didn't even thank her! I remember thinking, wow, that's so crappy!

Later, I found out that friend never asked Lauren to make all that food. She took it upon herself to do and then created the argument when she didn't feel like she was properly thanked. (Now that I understand the details, the host was probably like -- wtf, why did you bring all this food when I'm hosting?!) 

She actually did that to me several times, too ... showed up to something at my house with all this food, tons of wine, etc., needing to use my oven when I myself was using it for, you know, the party I was hosting. I'd go out of my way to thank her profusely, not wanting her to have a reason to be upset with me.

[devonpow]

IDK. I feel there could be a lot of things going on. Maintaining friendships when you have little kids (and during Covid with little kids?! Omg) is HARD. And there can be a lot of feelings of others not understanding or being adaptable on both sides (not saying these actions happen but the feelings can be there). Also, Covid messed a lot of relationships up (in my experience). Fear, differences in how people responded to it, depression, anxiety - lots of things were in play for a lot of people.

Also a lot of people don’t deal well with confrontation - reaching out and not really addressing things may just be an olive branch/way of testing the waters.

If you like them and are interested in having a relationship give them the benefit of the doubt. “Great to hear from you! We have missed seeing you the last few years. Would love to get together and start hanging again”. Then see what happens

[cjcouple]

Jan 2, 2024 17:18:56 GMT -5 mokes said:

Jan 2, 2024 16:59:23 GMT -5 emilyinchile said:

Oh, and just for the gossip, what kind of stuff have you seen Lauren do to other friendships?

Haha. So here's an example.

Soo, I change my opinion! I wouldn't want to maintain that kind of friendship so I'd probably just say you're busy. If your H wants to see Craig, have him make a plan for a guy's night out for the 3 friends and meet up for pool/darts and apps and drinks or ab afternoon at the driving range. whatever they used to do.

My H gets together with guy friends without me because frankly their wives are clique and bitchy so I find something to do with my own friends. 🙅‍♀️

[Poppy]

You are upset that they didn't give you the benefit of the doubt about the invitation, but you are doing the same thing with the lack of response to your H's outreach.

If it were me, I would probably try to make the requested meetup happen. Going out to dinner the four of you sounds like a much better chance to rebuild your relationships than trying to do it at parties one of you is hosting where your attention is divided.

But, if you are over the friendship anyway then you can ignore or deflect and let your H manage his own friendship with Craig.

[Poppy]

Oh, and FYI, it has taken me a lot longer than a couple months to regroup from the changes of having kids enough to put much energy into my previous friendships. So your expectations there may not have been super realistic. Not that you are obligated to wait around for them! Just giving you my perspective.

[shopgirl07]

Do you want to hang out with them? Friendships do change and that’s ok. It’s ok to be more surface level friends with them. I guess I’m at the age where I’m more forgiving and go with the flow. I also haven’t been the best friend at times either so I’m into giving grace. So if you think you’d have a nice time hanging out with them, then go. If you really don’t want to then that’s fine too. I just don’t think this has to be a drama situation.

[lust2hart]

If you and your DH liked having this couple as friends before all this happened, I think it would be good to meet up with them. Give y'all an opportunity to clear the air. If during that meet-up it's clear that it's unlikely you can re-establish a friendship, then you'll know and can move on for good.

And as others have said, this might be a situation where your DH and Craig can rekindle something but you and Lauren just let things go.

[waverly]

Jan 2, 2024 17:08:16 GMT -5 mokes said:

Jan 2, 2024 16:58:47 GMT -5 waverly said:

Did you go to the other birthday parties?

My family does a lot of phone calls during our commute. It’s the perfect time for phone calls. So I wouldn’t read more into it than it’s convenient because once you get home it’s family stuff, dinner, extra curriculars, homework bedtime etc. It gets really busy.

There had only been 1 at that time, but yes. (Son was born 2018, so we went to the first bday in 2019. 2020 is the one we weren't invited to/didn't go to.) We weren't invited if there were any bday parties in 2021 or 2022.

The commute thing was George's thing, not me. (I'm getting confused by my own fake names lol.)

I know. I’m just saying George shouldn’t blame Lauren for that, so I didn’t see it as a Lauren problem.