You said: "He doesn't want a relationship while he's in the armed forces because he doesn't want to deal with a long distance relationship."
This is just an excuse. If he wanted to be with you, he'd do what he could to make it work.
ITA. Plenty of people are in the military, and are in relationships. It's hard work, but if he's not willing to try now because it may be hard, what makes you think he'd stick around later if things get rough?
I would try to focus on improving your self esteem and having fun in your 20s. You should be with someone you are passionate about, someone that can support himself and has strong aspirations for himself, and someone that you could never imagine cheating on, which is what you are doing with Bob right now.
You said: "He doesn't want a relationship while he's in the armed forces because he doesn't want to deal with a long distance relationship."
This is just an excuse. If he wanted to be with you, he'd do what he could to make it work.
ITA. Plenty of people are in the military, and are in relationships. It's hard work, but if he's not willing to try now because it may be hard, what makes you think he'd stick around later if things get rough?
That's a solid point. Thank you, I will think about that.
I think you'll have a better self esteem if you get fit. Lurk over on H&F for some inspirational stories. Once you are happy with yourself (and it sounds like your fitness is a source of unhappiness/low self esteem)you'll attract the right type of guy for you. These two guys are not it.
This seems like such an odd place to promote health and fitness right now.
“Life is not orderly. No matter how we try to make it so, right in the middle of it lose a leg, fall in love, drop a jar of applesauce.” - Natalie Goldberg
I don't think bob is being shady or vindictive purposely in regards to Dave. I have no idea what she's telling bob about Dave.
I think that OP is confused and unsure of what she wants and bob is fulfilling a need she has and vice versa.
This is it exactly. I am very confused and unsure of what I want. Bob is definitely fulfilling a need (although I don't know what exactly). Bob isn't being purposefully vindictive or anything (I don't think). He has told me he doesn't want to get involved while I'm engaged, but I definitely feel like he's playing a little with my emotions. Like he's telling me not to wait for him or pit him against Dave... but I am. I can't help it because of everything he's telling me.
I don't think bob is being shady or vindictive purposely in regards to Dave. I have no idea what she's telling bob about Dave.
I think that OP is confused and unsure of what she wants and bob is fulfilling a need she has and vice versa.
This is it exactly. I am very confused and unsure of what I want. Bob is definitely fulfilling a need (although I don't know what exactly). Bob isn't being purposefully vindictive or anything (I don't think). He has told me he doesn't want to get involved while I'm engaged, but I definitely feel like he's playing a little with my emotions. Like he's telling me not to wait for him or pit him against Dave... but I am. I can't help it because of everything he's telling me.
Oh no no no.
Own your actions here. You are an adult and you are choosing to interact with Bob. It's not fair to anyone in this situation for you to put the blame for what you're doing to Dave on Bob. This is all on you.
So many of you are saying that it sounds like I don't love Dave, but I do. How do I just end four years and an engagement with someone that I love?
I can only compare it to my experiences with love.
If you really loved Dave, and he has been good to you, you could never imagine jeopardizing that.
Another indicator of you probably being very young is this "FOUR YEARS!!!!1!" business. So, what?
You would be happily marrying Dave if you were at least 80% certain.
If you love him so much, you would never be stuck on from-the-past-Bob.
Reminiscing is one thing, telling dude from the past (who doesn't want a relationship with you right now!) that you love him = you don't love Dave. Not enough.
Thank you. I'm not VERY YOUNG, I'm 25 (so yeah, you all probably think I'm a child). Four years seems like a lot to me, and it's hard to end an engagement. Dave and I have come so far and have made so much progress with our relationship. I'm just sad that it was all a waste since it'll be over.
This is it exactly. I am very confused and unsure of what I want. Bob is definitely fulfilling a need (although I don't know what exactly). Bob isn't being purposefully vindictive or anything (I don't think). He has told me he doesn't want to get involved while I'm engaged, but I definitely feel like he's playing a little with my emotions. Like he's telling me not to wait for him or pit him against Dave... but I am. I can't help it because of everything he's telling me.
Oh no no no.
Own your actions here. You are an adult and you are choosing to interact with Bob. It's not fair to anyone in this situation for you to put the blame for what you're doing to Dave on Bob. This is all on you.
Trust me, I know it's on me. I own my actions, and I know that I caused this to happen. But I cannot discount what Bob has been telling me.
I can only compare it to my experiences with love.
If you really loved Dave, and he has been good to you, you could never imagine jeopardizing that.
Another indicator of you probably being very young is this "FOUR YEARS!!!!1!" business. So, what?
You would be happily marrying Dave if you were at least 80% certain.
If you love him so much, you would never be stuck on from-the-past-Bob.
Reminiscing is one thing, telling dude from the past (who doesn't want a relationship with you right now!) that you love him = you don't love Dave. Not enough.
Thank you. I'm not VERY YOUNG, I'm 25 (so yeah, you all probably think I'm a child). Four years seems like a lot to me, and it's hard to end an engagement. Dave and I have come so far and have made so much progress with our relationship. I'm just sad that it was all a waste since it'll be over.
How is any relationship a waste if you learned something from it?
Much better to choose now to end a relationship you already are questioning before you even say your vows than to look back 10, 15, 30 years later and realize you settled.
Post by jojoandleo on Feb 23, 2013 14:35:34 GMT -5
Just show Dave this post and let him decide. 5 million dollars says he dumps you-then you don't have to do it! Easy peasy!
How would YOU feel if you found out your fiancee was telling another woman he loved her and debating whether or not to leave you for another woman? Not too good, right?
I think you WANT to love Dave, but you don't. He's not right for you, so you are turning to Bob. You think if Bob is this possible great love, well, that's a good reason to leave Dave.
I don't get what is hard about this. You aren't married and you don't know what you want-easy solution, spend some time ALONE figuring yourself out and then date.
Post by BieberMyBalls on Feb 23, 2013 14:35:38 GMT -5
It doesn't matter that you're pushing your wedding back, or not planning on getting married anytime soon. I mean, great for you that you're not rushing into marrying him while you're still unsure about things, but what about Dave? He still thinks things are great, and that he's with the woman he is eventually going to marry. He has no idea that one of the reasons it isn't happening anytime soon, is because his fiancee isn't sure if she wants to marry him yet. At least that's what I understand from your post.
I really hope you realize how cruel you are being to him. You're toying with both of their emotions (assuming Bob is really into you) but Bob knows what's going on, and that you're unavailable. Dave is innocent in this. Not you, or Bob. I also think you're romanticising this, like some Nicholas Sparks novel. For everyone's benefit, you really need to be truthful with Dave, and allow him to be loved by someone who doesn't see him as just an option. Figure out what you want, but not at his expense. Sorry if that sounds bitchy, but you asked for honest advice. Good luck
listen. you are not innocent. all of things are not just happening TO you. this isn't all (or even mostly) on bob. YOU ARE ENGAGED. please please end your relationship with dave. do whatever you want with bob, but i'm telling you, you can wait for him all you want and it won't end up the way you hope.
I know it's not happening TO me, but it does take two people to have an emotional affair. Bob is playing a role in this as well. I'm not innocent by any means, and I know this is on me. I'm going to end up hurting Dave, and that's on me, but this thing with Bob is because of both Bob and me.
ETA - Yes, I know I'm being cruel to Dave. I know all of this. None of this is new to me. I have already owned everything - I'm cruel, I'm mean, I'm selfish, I'm having an affair. I know all of that. I'm also confused and upset and that's why I came to all of you.
Post by EloiseWeenie on Feb 23, 2013 14:40:24 GMT -5
It sounds like your romanticizing the relationship with Bob. You weren't into Bob, until he joined the military and is leaving. Joining the military doesn't mean he's matured. He's taking a temporary position (4 years) to get to school (another 4 years), which will hopefully lead into a career. It could be a decade before he's even settled into a career. There is no guarantee he's going to go to school when he's out, or complete it. I married a former Marine that used his GI Bill (he got his BS while in, and used his GI Bill for an MBA), but the MAJORITY of guys that go into service so they can pay for school, never end up going. His words sounds nice, but I'd need to see a lot more action and accomplishments from someone with a history of immaturity.
Poor Dave. He deserves someone that will cherish him, and you don't. You are being cruel to him. If you love him, tell him the truth.
Post by phdprocrastinator on Feb 23, 2013 14:40:36 GMT -5
I'm going to go with a cliche that might help you:
"When you know, you know."
Really and truly in my experience people in successful, happy marriages almost always say something like the above, and almost NEVER have stories like your own. And I've known (and been in) similar relationships where you debate and quibble over whether you LOVE love the person, which person you love more, which plan seems to be best, etc., etc., etc. Those relationships are miserable. Yes, you may care for (and even love, in a way) both Dave and Bob, but if it's THIS hard for your to figure out after knowing both for this long (to the point that you're carrying on with both of them in the a way that is absolutely despicable and disrespectful to both, suggesting you don't love either enough to be kind), then you're really not committed to being in a relationship with either. Because when you are really and truly in love with someone, you figure out a way past obstacles like distance or money (says the woman bringing the student loan debt into her marriage who used to drive an hour to see her then boyfriend on a weeknight because she liked him that much).
Do you really want the story of your marriage to read: "Well, he seemed to be the best of two options..." Do you want to tell him to tell your grandkids about how you went back and forth before finally settling on him?
As for breaking it off with Dave: it will be hard. Obviously. But in the end, it is the kindest thing to do. Do you think he wants to be the one you settled for?
Just show Dave this post and let him decide. 5 million dollars says he dumps you-then you don't have to do it! Easy peasy!
How would YOU feel if you found out your fiancee was telling another woman he loved her and debating whether or not to leave you for another woman? Not too good, right?
I think you WANT to love Dave, but you don't. He's not right for you, so you are turning to Bob. You think if Bob is this possible great love, well, that's a good reason to leave Dave.
I don't get what is hard about this. You aren't married and you don't know what you want-easy solution, spend some time ALONE figuring yourself out and then date.
This right here. I would be livid if I were Dave. And dump you.
I'm going to go with a cliche that might help you:
"When you know, you know."
Really and truly in my experience people in successful, happy marriages almost always say something like the above, and almost NEVER have stories like your own. And I've known (and been in) similar relationships where you debate and quibble over whether you LOVE love the person, which person you love more, which plan seems to be best, etc., etc., etc. Those relationships are miserable. Yes, you may care for (and even love, in a way) both Dave and Bob, but if it's THIS hard for your to figure out after knowing both for this long (to the point that you're carrying on with both of them in the a way that is absolutely despicable and disrespectful to both, suggesting you don't love either enough to be kind), then you're really not committed to being in a relationship with either. Because when you are really and truly in love with someone, you figure out a way past obstacles like distance or money (says the woman bringing the student loan debt into her marriage who used to drive an hour to see her then boyfriend on a weeknight because she liked him that much).
Do you really want the story of your marriage to read: "Well, he seemed to be the best of two options..." Do you want to tell him to tell your grandkids about how you went back and forth before finally settling on him?
As for breaking it off with Dave: it will be hard. Obviously. But in the end, it is the kindest thing to do. Do you think he wants to be the one you settled for?
Thank you SO much. Your post is by far the most helpful. I will definitely take this all in and think about it. Thank you.
Bob is looking for something to entertain him while he's deployed. You're it. Maybe he really loves you, maybe he doesn't. Who knows?
What is clear is that Dave doesn't deserve this. He deserves a hell of a lot better than this.
And lol at the H&F plug. personally, I think your self esteem would be much healthier if you figured out why you're allowing yourself to get caught up in this, and then knock it the fuck off.
You need a clean break from both of these guys, and you need to evaluate yourself.
I think its better to break things off with Dave now instead of marrying him and having an affair with Bob (cause you know it will happen) when Bob gets back.
And when you do end up cheating with Bob, he really isn't going to want to commit. Why would he?
listen. you are not innocent. all of things are not just happening TO you. this isn't all (or even mostly) on bob. YOU ARE ENGAGED. please please end your relationship with dave. do whatever you want with bob, but i'm telling you, you can wait for him all you want and it won't end up the way you hope.
I know it's not happening TO me, but it does take two people to have an emotional affair. Bob is playing a role in this as well. I'm not innocent by any means, and I know this is on me. I'm going to end up hurting Dave, and that's on me, but this thing with Bob is because of both Bob and me.
ETA - Yes, I know I'm being cruel to Dave. I know all of this. None of this is new to me. I have already owned everything - I'm cruel, I'm mean, I'm selfish, I'm having an affair. I know all of that. I'm also confused and upset and that's why I came to all of you.
Then stop. It really IS that easy. You tell Bob that you can't have an emotional affair with him anymore, and if you aren't sure if Dave is who you want to be with, then you tell him so. No one here is going to give you the answer you want. You either want to be with Dave, and only him, or you don't. And really, it sucks that you even let it go this far.
Post by snatchparade on Feb 23, 2013 14:45:14 GMT -5
OP. So your issue is you don't know how to end things with Dave so you're just going to stay in the relationship with him? What if he comes to you tonight and tells you he wants to set a wedding date. Are you going to go along with that? And get married? Then when Bob comes home you will be a married women still in love with Bob. It will be far easier to end an engagement than a marriage.
It might seem terrifying to end an engagement. It is. But you will get past it. And you and Dave will much better off moving on from that then trying to deal with a divorce.
It is hard to end an engagement; it's harder to end a marriage. I stand by what I said earlier. Get out of both relationships. Get some counseling. You have your whole life ahead of you and just 4 years behind you. You owe it to Dave at least to be honest and stop messing with his life too. And at least acknowledge that what you're doing is wrong until you get out of the relationship.
some of the best advice I got while dating was to not waste time with a guy who had the "potential" to be a great partner. And honestly Bob doesn't even sound like he has that much potential. Yeah he will have the GI bill but a lot of guys get out of the military and are no more mature than when they went in, they just have more emotional baggage.
Plus, why would Bob ever trust you? He knows you are the type of girl who will accept a ring and plan a wedding, all while telling another man you love him. Bob doesn't trust you or respect you.
And why would you ever trust Bob for that matter? He has no problem engaging in an inappropriate relationship.
Plus, why would Bob ever trust you? He knows you are the type of girl who will accept a ring and plan a wedding, all while telling another man you love him. Bob doesn't trust you or respect you.
Yes, this is probably true. And honestly, why should I trust him? He's involved in an emotional affair with a girl who he knows to be engaged. I'm not pawning any of this off on him, I'm just trying to reason some stuff out here. Thank you.
I think you shouldn't be marrying Dave if you're writing Bob and telling him you're in love with him.
This. I mean I can go on and on about how Bob isn't going to be around for a few more years and what if he doesn't want you What if he meets someone else.
But don't marry Dave. But stop pining over Bob, he doesn't even want you to be his gf now anyways. Take time to be alone and find out what kind of future you want But what emsumm said is the crux of the whole thing. You are engaged to DAve and telling Bob you love him. DO NOT MARRY DAVE