"I'm not a babysitter..."

[londoncalling]

Apr 3, 2013 14:07:01 GMT -5 satsuma said:

I'm going to second the thought that this might be depression. It would be my first thought if I heard a mom was this uninterested in her child. Now where to go with that if he doesn't think there's a problem and is uninterested in counseling? I dunno. I guess that's where individual counseling might help sort that out. Should it even be your responsibility to get him help? Ugh, such a crappy situation. I'm sorry and I wish I had better advice.

A lot of this sounds a lot like my mom.  I spent a ton of time with my dad growing up because my mother just didn't have the desire to parent when I was young.  I'm an only child.  30 years later my father says his biggest regret in life is not having more kids.

I will say that counseling and medicine helped my mom really become a fully engaged parent, but that wasn't until I was 8 or 9.  Now my mom and I are great friends; there are no lingering effects on me, but there definitely is between my parents (who are still married).  I can tell now when my mom isn't taking her Zoloft because she says things about how she stayed up late because she couldn't sleep, she's tired during the day, and just can't find the motivation to do much more than the basics to get by.

[auberge]

Hugs @lilly. I'm truly sorry you're going thru this.

When I read your OP, I thought he was being selfish and immature and you are being way too passive about it.

Then with the updates (smoking cigars, neglect, his attitude towards her), I'm truly shocked. I ask that you take a step back and think about what you have said. You don't feel comfortable leaving him alone,  he's not willing to work on it, etc. I'm sorry you have been thru divorce before but I would absolutely leave. This is not ok on any level.

Parenting should and can be 50/50.

[bronxgirl]

I'm really sorry to hear that you and V are in this situation and my heart aches for you both. I am disturbed by your update re: how he treats your daughter when alone with her. I agree with the suggestion of counseling. Even if he refuses, go by yourself. Your counselor can help you come up with a plan of how to address these issues with him and setting limits. and just to reiterate, you are NOT a failure. Big hugs.

[Deleted]

I am sorry you are dealing with this. I think every woman has this vision of how parenting should be and it does not always work out that way. I do think that there is a difference between love and like here. Someone who really loves someone or something will spend time with them/it. Your husband plays video games and goofs on the internet more than he spends with his daughter..... one could say that some men just cannot handle little babies.... ok, well come to a joint agreement on what he can handle.... maybe he needs a Daddy & baby class so that they spend time together outside of the house doing an activity without you but that he doesn't feel so alone in that activity with his daughter?

I would be ready for some creative solutions AFTER he can pinpoint WHY he cannot/does not want to be alone with his daughter.

Finally, I wouldn't just give up and divorce. But, if in the end he cannot meet you half way then you need to look at your life in 20+ years... do you want to be "that family" who only stayed together for the kids even though the dad was never into his daughters activities/likes/interests? What kind of dad is that in the end?

I have a daughter similar age to yours and she goes crazy nutz when daddy comes home from work every night. In the morning she wants nothing more than lots of cuddles with her daddy and wants to sit on his lap while he eats breakfast. I hope that your husband can someday soon see the joy that a child brings to their lives when they spend quality time with them. Life is too short, dump the computer/video games and enjoy the moment with your child, they grow up way to fast.

I think you are doing the right thing by recognizing the issue and not ignoring it. Hang in there and be ready for the outcome, good or bad -- you only want what's best for both YOU and your daughter.

[luvmagoldn]

I am so sorry to hear this. If it were me, I would pack a bag and go. To your parents, a friend, hotel, whatever. At least for a few days. It might help you get a break from the norm and allow you the space to gain a little clarity. It would hopefully give him some perspective as well.

Maybe then you can decide what to do next.

Hugs to you and V.

Edit : I would obviously take V with you based on your update.

[Deleted]

I only skimmed the replies (sorry, DS woke up) so I'm sure everyone else has given great advice. I'm a SAHM, and I knew going into this that DS would be mostly my responsibility. DH works a stressful job, and one of the reasons I chose to SAHM was to be "on" with DS the majority of the time. Well, it turned out to be 99.9% of time. DH never did anything as douchebaggery as what your husband is doing. But he would work late, come home and eat the dinner I made, then watch TV while I put DS to bed and did dishes. We argued about it a lot. It all came to a head after he made a similar comment after taking DS for one hour while I ate lunch alone for the first time in like, ever. When he got back and I asked him to hang out with DS for a little while longer so I could shower, he launched into what a "favor he'd done for me giving up his Saturday afternoon" or some nonsense. I seethed about it for a few days, and we had a huge fight over it once I composed myself. I approached it from the angle that DS needs his daddy. He needs a strong, stable male influence who is actually ENGAGED, not just NEARBY. I said I was getting burnt out, stressed out, and DH's lack of empathy for my situation was hurtful and was seriously straining our marriage. I said something had to change b/c I could.not.handle things the way they were.

I also mandated some "me time." I said, "I am going to yoga on Sat mornings and you are taking DS." And every week I go. I hand him the monitor (DS is usually asleep) no matter what DH is working on, and I go. I'm sure in the beginning there was a fair amount of DH futzing around on the internet while DS whined in the playpen next to him. But, over time, DH has become much more engaged with DS and really enjoys playing with him now. Things are much, much better.

I guess to summarize, if I were you I would lay everything out for him like you have done here. You're angry, hurt, and resentful at his behavior. You feel he's a bad father to DD and a bad husband to you for ignoring this issue repeatedly. I would say something has to change, or your marriage is going to be irreparably damaged, and DD will keep growing up with a distant father, which has a huge impact on any child's happiness. I would clearly state what you expect from him going forward. You expect him to be an engaged father just like you are. Don't start listing out all the things that you do that he doesn't, he'll just tune you out and you'll sound like a nag to him. Don't tell him all the responsibilities you have, tell him what you expect FROM HIM. Tell him that this is what you need in order for your marriage and DD's happiness to be salvageable. If he laughs you off, I would conclude with "I hope you think about what I've said. This is a serious issue and I am seriously unhappy. Things have to change, if you don't see that, then we'll continue to grow apart and that won't end well." You don't have to use the word "divorce" if you're actually not considering doing it, but I think it's fine to imply it. It's the "big gun" in this fight that he may need to hear at this point.

I'm so sorry you're going through this, I sympathize I really do.

[crazygame]

I haven't read all the responses and I am sure that you have received a good amount of advice and sympathy. I just want to say that my heart goes out to you. I had similar issues for the first year or so of my daughter's life. My husband disappointed me to my core. He left everything baby related to me and the resentment consumed me. I sought individual counseling, because I didn't know what to do. It was really helpful for me to see how I was enabling him and my counselor provided me with tools to ask him for help. We also did marriage counseling for a different reason, but this was brought up and it was very helpful.

It seemed incomprehensible, but he really didn't realize how little he was helping. I kept waiting for him to see how overwhelmed I was and he never did. His behavior (and your husband's) was inexcusable, but for some reason my husband needed me to look him in the eye and say "you aren't doing enough and this sucks for me." I told him how disappointed I was and it crushed him. He needed to hear it though. I never threatened divorce, because that isn't what I wanted. What I did was make him realize how my view of him was changing. When he started to see things from my prespective, he didn't like what he saw and things started to change.

He has been much more involved since she started talking and became more interactive. Unfortunately, to a certain extent his actions in those first 18 months tainted their relationship and she goes through periods of not wanting him around. It hurts his feelings and he has to work hard to regain her affection, but I think to a certain extent he realizes that she is going to be more bonded with me, because I was always there for her. The moments when they really do connect are amazing and I know that we will all be okay. It's been terribly hard and I am so sorry that you are in the thick of it. Maybe I am not really expressing myself well here, but I have felt what you are feeling. My advice woudl be to be completely honest with your husband. I hope that he will respond and step up.

[curbsideprophet]

I'm sorry your husband is not the parent you thought he would be. I agree that his behavior is not acceptable. I don't think you can continue on as is since you do not feel comfortable leaving DD alone with him, that is not okay! I agree that counseling/getting a third party involved would be good. At the very least you can start going to individual counseling if he refused to go himself or do any type of joint counseling.

As for his interactions with V, can you start with something small, like putting him in charge of bathtime?

[dexteroni]

Apr 3, 2013 17:07:23 GMT -5 crazygame said:

for some reason my husband needed me to look him in the eye and say "you aren't doing enough and this sucks for me." I told him how disappointed I was and it crushed him. He needed to hear it though. I never threatened divorce, because that isn't what I wanted. What I did was make him realize how my view of him was changing. When he started to see things from my prespective, he didn't like what he saw and things started to change.

Lilly, I was wondering how direct you've been with him thus far. You said he complains that you're in a bad mood, but how much actual constructive talking have you done? If you haven't gotten to the point crazygame described above, I think it's time for you to be completely up front with him; to tell him everything you've told us here. He needs to hear exactly how much this is affecting you.

[Deleted]

Apr 3, 2013 17:48:16 GMT -5 dexteroni said:

Apr 3, 2013 17:07:23 GMT -5 crazygame said:

for some reason my husband needed me to look him in the eye and say "you aren't doing enough and this sucks for me." I told him how disappointed I was and it crushed him. He needed to hear it though. I never threatened divorce, because that isn't what I wanted. What I did was make him realize how my view of him was changing. When he started to see things from my prespective, he didn't like what he saw and things started to change.

Lilly, I was wondering how direct you've been with him thus far. If you haven't gotten to this point, I think it would be a good idea to be completely up front with him, as hard as it will be. He needs to hear exactly how this is affecting you.

Honestly, I feel like I've been pretty direct. We had multiple fights/discussions about this (hence, why he says I always "ruin" our days off together). I wrote out a long email to to him today at work (Spring Break=slow day) and outlined my tremendous disappointment and how sad I am about the fact that I may not get to have another child...I laid out the options as I see them (very specifically). I told him I thought his expectations of having four days off to sleep in, surf the net and play video games are unreasonable (and frankly super self absorbed and BORING) and that I really think if we would work as a team, we could BOTH be happy and V would be better off for it. I also asked him if he has thought about what kind of woman he wants V to grow up to be and what he thinks he is doing to facilitate that...It may have been a bit rambling, but I think it got my point across. I haven't heard anything from him-- I'll see what he has to say tonight. I really appreciate all the advice and kind words! Thank you all so much. 

[ECB]

Apr 3, 2013 17:48:16 GMT -5 dexteroni said:

Apr 3, 2013 17:07:23 GMT -5 crazygame said:

for some reason my husband needed me to look him in the eye and say "you aren't doing enough and this sucks for me." I told him how disappointed I was and it crushed him. He needed to hear it though. I never threatened divorce, because that isn't what I wanted. What I did was make him realize how my view of him was changing. When he started to see things from my prespective, he didn't like what he saw and things started to change.

Lilly, I was wondering how direct you've been with him thus far. You said he complains that you're in a bad mood, but how much actual constructive talking have you done? If you haven't gotten to the point crazygame described above, I think it's time for you to be completely up front with him; to tell him everything you've told us here. He needs to hear exactly how much this is affecting you.

I'm kind of wondering the same thing. There needs to be a talk w/ him that isn't a result of being frustrated. It' sneeds to be a pre-planned "we need ot talk" talk. And while I don't feel you should "threaten" divorce- IF you feel this ever could lead to that, it's a fair thing to mention.  That if things don't change, it could lead to divorce. 

But he needs to really HEAR from you how this is affecting you.

I'm also going to add - you talk about not wanting a 2nd divorce, and I hear you on that.  But you also need to think about your DD.  She should see what a GOOD relationship/marriage is like.  If this can't be fixed, staying w/ him "just so" you don't get divorced again isn't doing your DD any favors.

[dexteroni]

Apr 3, 2013 18:06:15 GMT -5 @lilly said:

Apr 3, 2013 17:48:16 GMT -5 dexteroni said:

Lilly, I was wondering how direct you've been with him thus far. If you haven't gotten to this point, I think it would be a good idea to be completely up front with him, as hard as it will be. He needs to hear exactly how this is affecting you.

Honestly, I feel like I've been pretty direct. We had multiple fights/discussions about this (hence, why he says I always "ruin" our days off together). I wrote out a long email to to him today at work (Spring Break=slow day) and outlined my tremendous disappointment and how sad I am about the fact that I may not get to have another child...I laid out the options as I see them (very specifically). I told him I thought his expectations of having four days off to sleep in, surf the net and play video games are unreasonable (and frankly super self absorbed and BORING) and that I really think if we would work as a team, we could BOTH be happy and V would be better off for it. I also asked him if he has thought about what kind of woman he wants V to grow up to be and what he thinks he is doing to facilitate that...It may have been a bit rambling, but I think it got my point across. I haven't heard anything from him-- I'll see what he has to say tonight. I really appreciate all the advice and kind words! Thank you all so much. 

Yeah, but I wasn't sure if that meant you had talked to him directly, or just snarked, or had said it once a long time ago but hadn't brought it up again, or whatever. It's obvious that it needs further discussion, so I'm glad you laid it all out for him today.  Maybe the fact that it's an email will help; sometimes people tune out when the conversation turns to an unpleasant topic, but an email is right in front of him in black and white, to read and reread.  I hope it facilitates some productive conversations. The fact that he knows he doesn't do anything but still places the blame on you for not being ok with that makes me so angry on your behalf. I really hope he comes around.

Really, you guys have a fairly good situation - with four days off every week, each of you can take a day or two "on" with V and still have some time to yourselves. Most working couples have only two days off per week! It's such a shame that he doesn't appreciate that. And the fact that he would rather play video games than spend time with his daughter is just incomprehensible to me.

[cjeanette]

I keep coming into this post wanting to say something productive and end up leaving since the only thing I can think is WTF.

[dexteroni]

Apr 3, 2013 18:31:12 GMT -5 cjeanette said:

I keep coming into this post wanting to say something productive and end up leaving since the only thing I can think is WTF.

I know! I was rereading lilly's OP and comments before asking how much they had talked about it (in case she mentioned it and I had missed it), and I just kept getting more and more pissed off that he doesn't think he EVER has to - nor does he seem to want to - parent his child. And when lilly lets him know how unfair that is, he blames her for "ruining his day off?!?"  I mean - it's just - omfg. 

[karinothing]

I think you have gotten a lot of good advice so I just wanted to say I am sorry. I hope that the e-mail gets through to him. I was thinking that maybe in regards to the video game situation you two can come to a compromise about how many hours a day he plays them, or what time a day. Good luck.

[Deleted]

Good luck! Hope the email will wake him up. <hugs>

[londoncalling]

I also think its important to point out that your marriage sets an example for V. I've said to my DH a couple of times "how would you feel if you daughter's husband did that?" If he doesn't want someone treating his daughter that way, then he shouldn't be acting that way towards me. It's important for him to set a good example of a loving husband and father so that V expects her potential mate to treat her well.

[Bree Van de Kamp]

Apr 3, 2013 12:17:20 GMT -5 @lilly said:

Apr 3, 2013 12:07:59 GMT -5 Willis Jackson said:

What does he do when he gets mad at her?

He yells (not like screaming out of control, but a yell). He gets frustrated easily. If I wasn't there, he would probably put her in her crib and just let her cry. He did that when I first went back to work and she was a little baby and at least a couple times she threw up because she cried so hard.

Noooooooo. No. no.

[Deleted]

Apr 3, 2013 18:53:17 GMT -5 karinothing said:

I think you have gotten a lot of good advice so I just wanted to say I am sorry. I hope that the e-mail gets through to him. I was thinking that maybe in regards to the video game situation you two can come to a compromise about how many hours a day he plays them, or what time a day. Good luck.

I don't think agreeing on how many hours he plays is relevant. My counselor would say focus on agreeing on a "me" time for each. If he wants to use all his "me" time and sleep time playing games, that's his choice but shouldn't affect you and/or v. This is one thing that pissed me off about getting "me" time. H wanted to dictate/criticize how I spent my "me" time. The counselor told him, it's off limits and I could do what I like.

[kathybela]

Apr 3, 2013 16:01:23 GMT -5 auberge said:

Hugs @lilly. I'm truly sorry you're going thru this.

When I read your OP, I thought he was being selfish and immature and you are being way too passive about it.

Then with the updates (smoking cigars, neglect, his attitude towards her), I'm truly shocked. I ask that you take a step back and think about what you have said. You don't feel comfortable leaving him alone,  he's not willing to work on it, etc. I'm sorry you have been thru divorce before but I would absolutely leave. This is not ok on any level.

Parenting should and can be 50/50.

Expanding on the bolded above - take a step back and evaluate how you would advise a friend with the same issues.

[shopgirl07]

I'm just going to say that you don't really have an otherwise good relationship do you?

It's not just that he's uncomfortable with parenting, which happens. It's that he has so little respect for you that he would make those comments to you and treat you and your daughter the way he does.

You can't compartmentalize this. It's not like he's just messy or something. He doesn't respect you. He doesn't care for his daughter properly. He's a poison in your marriage and there's no way you can go on like this. I hope you can find a resolution. In the meantime, I think it's a good idea to go to counseling yourself and talk all of this out.

[dexteroni]

Apr 3, 2013 19:17:47 GMT -5 shopgirl07 said:

I'm just going to say that you don't really have an otherwise good relationship do you?

I hate to keep chiming in here, but I was thinking the same thing. I find it very difficult to believe that something like this could happen in an otherwise "great" relationship. Impossible, in fact.  Great or even good husbands don't treat their wives and children like this, and scoff and throw blame when called out for it. 

[Deleted]

I'm sorry you're going through this. Hugs.

[biscoffcookies]

Apr 3, 2013 18:31:12 GMT -5 cjeanette said:

I keep coming into this post wanting to say something productive and end up leaving since the only thing I can think is WTF.

This.  I am so furious on your behalf and my heart hurts for you and V.  I hope your email helps move you guys on a path toward a better situation.

[Deleted]

The one thing I keep coming back to in my mind is this: Lilly, if in 30 years your daughter came to you to tell you exactly what you told us was going on in her marriage and her co-parenting relationship, what would you say to her? What would you urge her to do? You would not, for one second, consider her a failure. You would do everything in your power to support her.

Likewise, if this was your sister or best friend, what would you say?

If this was another poster, and not your life, wouldn't you be outraged and think that that person doesn't deserve a life like that?

[Deleted]

This is based on my own experience only, but I really don't think there's a way to live like this and not be resentful. I know because I watched it with my parents and my mom was very resentful. My dad just didn't think it was his responsibility to cook or clean at all. I don't know about some of the more mundane parenting tasks, but even with all that said, he was pretty engaged when we were older (coached our teams, taught us to ride bikes, planned our family vacations, took all the family photos, did periodic writeups from the time we were born, read books to us). If none of that is even on the table, I don't see how this is sustainable. I'm sorry.

[froggy76]

Hugs, Lilly. I don't have really have any advice other than what's been said. I do agree with some PPs that he could be depressed. But if he is not willing to get help, then you should not feel like a failure for leaving. You're a great mom and you're doing the best you can!

[CurlyQ284]

I didn't read all the replies but your DH is an asshole. Do NOT settle for doing 100% of the child rearing. My dad did this, I barely talk to him. Your children will have no relationship with him if this continues.

What we do is this: we alternate nights getting up with LO. We alternate who gets to sleep in on weekends, typically the one who gets up at night is the one who sleeps in on days off. With chores, I say "we have to do x, y, and z. Which of those do you want to do?" And then he watches LO while I'm doing my part of the x, y or z.

I would also guess you two are young. He sounds young and immature and he needs to grow up.

[Deleted]

..."no, but you ARE a parent.  I expect more out of you than I'd get by hiring a 16 year old for $5 an hour.  Sack up, put down the video games and be an adult.  Here's the kid, I'm leaving for 2 days.  FUCK YOU".  

[Velvetshady]

Lily, life is too fucking short to spend it living with someone that doesn't want to be an active participant in your life. Or your child's life. He is behaving as though he was your oldest child, not your partner, not v's father--and you should be fucking resentful that he feels this is acceptable.

You deserve a better partner in your life and v deserves a better father. If he is unwilling to be both, it would be better for both you and v to move on. You haven't failed, *he* is failing you and v. And there is no reason you should just learn to live with it--in fact, doing that will be harmful to v in the long run. And to you.