For some, writing is cathartic. For others, it is not. Telling someone to go write a book about a surely terrifying experience, forcing them to relive it for perhaps a very long period of time not only gives their subject power, it forces them to use a media which truth be told, is already flooded with other material. Meaning, their message may be lost. I understand it is uncomfortable for some, but the shock value is exactly why that mode of delivery was effective.
Just because it makes you uncomfortable, doesn't mean it is inappropriate, as pp have said.
Post by Aristotle on Sept 11, 2013 14:58:09 GMT -5
Thanks Nugget, I appreciate that because she is the strongest woman I know and I do give her a lot credit for that. And you're right, it's okay that she still is angry and hurt about her abuse and I don't fault her for that. I just could see her writing this about her father when he dies and I don't want her to feel that much sadness.
Sorry if I offended anyone, I wasn't considering all aspects.
I love anger. I'm also pretty anti the whole culture of forgiveness too. You don't have to forgive or stop being angry at your abuser in order to "move on".
Hey look, my general state is one of anger. I believe I was born this way. However I'm also a reasonable and productive member of society. I actually rarely feel any surges of rage or blind emotion, but my baseline mode is pissed off.
You're basically saying that just because their blurb full of emotion and catharsis makes you uncomfortable or seems unimportant to you, that its pointless. And that earns a big fuck you from me. Good night.
I don't get how people, who didn't suffer through what these survivors went through, think that they can have any idea of what may or may not be reasonable in this situation.
We have NO IDEA what she did to her children. Just from the short obit, it sounds pretty damn horrifying. If they want to out her as a hideous excuse of a mother and a craptastic human being in the obit...good for them! As the survivors, they have that right since they are the ones that have to live with the aftermath of this woman's actions.
I think that there are too many people out there who don't want to say or hear the truth because it may upset someone, rock the boat, or make someone unhappy. That makes me angry, rational or not.
It will because of an article. Not everyone reads obits. Not everyone feels that obits are necessary. I don't. I don't want an obit. People write books/memoirs. That will get attention. There are a lot of ways to bring attention to child abuse besides putting it in an obit.
You're legit fucking pissing me off right now so I'mma step out. This is ridiculous. This is not about YOU. This is not about how they can get attention. This is about how they, as abused and neglected children who suffered for YEARS at the hands of their mother can find closure in a non-violent way and come to terms as a family with what happened. And if they wanted to write that shit on a motherfucking billboard and put it smack in the center of fucking Times Square then what the hell ever, man. KOfuckingKO.
Did I ever say they can't do that? No. Did I ever say everything has to listen to me and think my way? No. Did I ever say I don't understand where they are coming from? No. If it wasn't about attention, then why not just put it in a journal? Why write something like that if you don't want attention? They can do whatever they want. Hell, a fucking billboard would have been a better place than an obit. Sure the obit may make people uncomfortable, but most likely not because of the horrific child abuse.
But if you think it's okay to speak the truth, why not the obit? I'm genuinely curious. You said that the abuser shouldn't be protected. Why shouldn't the truth come out in an obit. Written word is written word whether it be a newspaper article, online forum or obit. What gives the obit a special ranking?
An obit has no special ranking. Obits are meaningless to a lot of people. The only reason people write obits is so they can have closure. I think it is weird. Nobody is going to feel the same the people writing the obits feel. Nobody is going to care as much as the person writing it. Sure it may get some attention, but not always the attention that person wanted.
what sort of attention do you think they wanted and how was that not achieved?
Hey look, my general state is one of anger. I believe I was born this way. However I'm also a reasonable and productive member of society. I actually rarely feel any surges of rage or blind emotion, but my baseline mode is pissed off.
At the risk of being summarily executed, can I just say that I think it's really interesting that a discussion about anger and whether or not it's productive has devolved into four pages' worth of suppressed rage and hulk-smashing and people getting, well ... incredibly angry?
I think its rather apropos.
Someone negating someone else's closure/catharsis/venting over a lifetime of abuse makes this victim of abuse, angry.
At the risk of being summarily executed, can I just say that I think it's really interesting that a discussion about anger and whether or not it's productive has devolved into four pages' worth of suppressed rage and hulk-smashing and people getting, well ... incredibly angry?
I like anger. I'm rarely angry. When I am moved to anger, it forces me to evaluate & clarify my opinions & beliefs about important subjects. Which typically leads to action.
An obit has no special ranking. Obits are meaningless to a lot of people. The only reason people write obits is so they can have closure. I think it is weird. Nobody is going to feel the same the people writing the obits feel. Nobody is going to care as much as the person writing it. Sure it may get some attention, but not always the attention that person wanted.
what sort of attention do you think they wanted and how was that not achieved?
Are we talking about how people can help stop child abuse?no Are we talking about what it is like to be abused and what we can do about it? no. We are talking about how it isn't okay to be angry and how I feel it is not the place to put it in an obit.
You're legit fucking pissing me off right now so I'mma step out. This is ridiculous. This is not about YOU. This is not about how they can get attention. This is about how they, as abused and neglected children who suffered for YEARS at the hands of their mother can find closure in a non-violent way and come to terms as a family with what happened. And if they wanted to write that shit on a motherfucking billboard and put it smack in the center of fucking Times Square then what the hell ever, man. KOfuckingKO.
Sure the obit may make people uncomfortable, but most likely not because of the horrific child abuse.
WHUT.
This is EXACTLY why it should make people uncomfortable. Anyone who feels uncomfortable that 6 adult children of an abusive mother lambasted her rotting ass for being an abuser can fuck off with their "discomfort".
You're legit fucking pissing me off right now so I'mma step out. This is ridiculous. This is not about YOU. This is not about how they can get attention. This is about how they, as abused and neglected children who suffered for YEARS at the hands of their mother can find closure in a non-violent way and come to terms as a family with what happened. And if they wanted to write that shit on a motherfucking billboard and put it smack in the center of fucking Times Square then what the hell ever, man. KOfuckingKO.
Did I ever say they can't do that? No. Did I ever say everything has to listen to me and think my way? No. Did I ever say I don't understand where they are coming from? No. If it wasn't about attention, then why not just put it in a journal? Why write something like that if you don't want attention? They can do whatever they want. Hell, a fucking billboard would have been a better place than an obit. Sure the obit may make people uncomfortable, but most likely not because of the horrific child abuse.
Again, though....if obits are SO unimportant, why is this inappropriate?
Obits are all about attention. Whether its only for the benefit of the family (most), or if it's read by others.
I don't necessarily think that anger has to be divorced from all reason. The angriest moment of my life had a hell of a lot of reason.
When I was 17, I called the cops on my dad when I had had enough of the abuse. My thanks for not staying silent was a meeting with a CPS worker that proceeded to tell me that I was just having a temper tantrum and that I was a spoiled brat who was wasting her time. I had SO much fucking RAGE at this woman. But I took that rage and I'm now in social work as a therapist for maltreated children to make sure that bullshit doesn't happen to anyone in my care. Harnessing my anger is the best thing that has ever happened to me.
I think this is great, that you turned around and did something positive with it. But it sounds like compassion and empathy are your motivators, not rage. I'm guessing you're not like "Man, I love working with kids because I'm just so PISSED OFF." I think that's what LHC is talking about.
Very true. lol, I just got a mental image of me in play therapy with the kids being all like HULK SMASH
At the risk of being summarily executed, can I just say that I think it's really interesting that a discussion about anger and whether or not it's productive has devolved into four pages' worth of suppressed rage and hulk-smashing and people getting, well ... incredibly angry?
I think its rather apropos.
Someone negating someone else's closure/catharsis/venting over a lifetime of abuse makes this victim of abuse, angry.
FYI, not everyone who has been abused react the same way. I have been a victim of mental/emotional, verbal, and physical abuse. If I hadn't been, I wouldn't be expressing my opinion. And like I said, not everyone has to agree with me or listen to me.
what sort of attention do you think they wanted and how was that not achieved?
Are we talking about how people can help stop child abuse?no Are we talking about what it is like to be abused and what we can do about it? no. We are talking about how it isn't okay to be angry and how I feel it is not the place to put it in an obit.
Did I ever say they can't do that? No. Did I ever say everything has to listen to me and think my way? No. Did I ever say I don't understand where they are coming from? No. If it wasn't about attention, then why not just put it in a journal? Why write something like that if you don't want attention? They can do whatever they want. Hell, a fucking billboard would have been a better place than an obit. Sure the obit may make people uncomfortable, but most likely not because of the horrific child abuse.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT BEING IN AN OBIT?!?!?!?!
well, according to the most recent edition of miss manners, if your parent has left you with a legacy of pain and dysfunction due to childhood abuse, you are supposed to express that at the post-funeral cocktail hour with some impromptu remarks. obits and euologies are for basic facts, only. billboards are most appropriately reserved for cheating spouses and/or white collar crime.
while expressing the years of struggle you have endured, be certain to crook your pinky finger whilst holding your martini glass.
I don't think this is unexpected when select people are telling people how they should feel or respond or act towards childhood abuse.
Not you, but others.
And I didn't get that from her posts, really. I got that she didn't think it was the right forum for it, but I didn't get the sense that she was judging them for the emotions they were experiencing.
You always put everything so eloquently. Thank you for explaining what I apparently couldn't.
Someone negating someone else's closure/catharsis/venting over a lifetime of abuse makes this victim of abuse, angry.
FYI, not everyone who has been abused react the same way. I have been a victim of mental/emotional, verbal, and physical abuse. If I hadn't been, I wouldn't be expressing my opinion. And like I said, not everyone has to agree with me or listen to me.
You are seriously contradicting yourself then because you said it was inappropriate for those 6 people do write that obit, yet you say not everyone reacts the same way. They reacted by writing the obit. How dare you say it was inappropriate.
Thanks Nugget, I appreciate that because she is the strongest woman I know and I do give her a lot credit for that. And you're right, it's okay that she still is angry and hurt about her abuse and I don't fault her for that. I just could see her writing this about her father when he dies and I don't want her to feel that much sadness.
Sorry if I offended anyone, I wasn't considering all aspects.
also keep in mind the death of the abuser can be a big trigger so even if she wasn't currently angry or she's doing well she may have a stretch of time after where she is processing and gets angrier and/or more sad. all of which is normal and healthy as long as she isn't being self destructive or harmful about it.
Post by jojoandleo on Sept 11, 2013 15:11:15 GMT -5
midnightrae-WHY is it inappropriate to put in in an obit? What about an obituary MAKES it inappropriate. Sure they CAN get attention in other ways, possibly better ways, BUT that does not make doing it through an Obit inappropriate. You have yet to answer this question. You dance around it and come up with alternatives, but that does not answer WHY is it inappropriate.
You don't find them important, you don't think it is a good way to get attention, we all get that. That does not answer the question. Which will garner more attention does not matter. Alternatives do not matter. Taking ONLY the obit, why was it inappropriate.
FYI, not everyone who has been abused react the same way. I have been a victim of mental/emotional, verbal, and physical abuse. If I hadn't been, I wouldn't be expressing my opinion. And like I said, not everyone has to agree with me or listen to me.
amazing concept, isn't it?
Apparently it is, because you aren't understanding it. If everyone else is entitled to their reaction, so am I.
Kuus, I'd love to discuss the whole one-direction-opposite-direction thing, but I'm... literally afraid of nearly everyone in here right now. lol.
So in my time of lurking, I can sum up most of the arguments in which LHC has been involved.
This is what happens : 1. There is a post 2. LHC responds to a post with something vaguely provocative, not because she is trying to be an ass but because her brain is genuinely seems to go into deep think mode ASAP. 3. SOMEONE ELSE responds to a post and is a complete and total asshole for whatever reason (sometimes it's just poor wording), under the guise of deeper thought. 4. Pitchforks for LHC because there is a lot of BAD FEELINGS going on now and she is caught in the cross fire, even though almost everyone ultimately agrees with her.
midnightrae-WHY is it inappropriate to put in in an obit? What about an obituary MAKES it inappropriate. Sure they CAN get attention in other ways, possibly better ways, BUT that does not make doing it through an Obit inappropriate. You have yet to answer this question. You dance around it and come up with alternatives, but that does not answer WHY is it inappropriate.
You don't find them important, you don't think it is a good way to get attention, we all get that. That does not answer the question. Which will garner more attention does not matter. Alternatives do not matter. Taking ONLY the obit, why was it inappropriate.
Because obits are for when the person lived/died and maybe who survived them. Obits should be short and to the point. Nobody wants to read/not everyone cares how much somebody loved or hated someone. Just leave it as a death announcement.