My brother and I almost always behaved for my parents. I don't even really remember having consequences or angry words. We just didn't question them. Ugh, I don't know where I went wrong, but DD is not like that AT ALL. She's at a stage where she fights every single thing H and I ask her to do.
I do know that yelling doesn't work. She understands that drawing me into her drama helps her cause. Consequences -- nope, those rarely work, either. I used to be so strict, but now I'm seeing that the reasoning with your child approach actually works best with DD. She smiles and complies much more readily when she feels that I'm listening to her, and that she has some control.
It's really annoying. I used to feel like it was namby-pamby too. But for DD, I've got to stop and negotiate with her. At least this week, that's what's working.
I don't have kids, but on the few occasions my parents yelled o.m.g. I just dissolved in to tears and it worked. I'm sure they did feel guilty but they shouldn't have. Looking back I was a bad kid.
Rule #1: Always threaten with consequences that don't hurt you as well.
I'm running out of shit to threaten 11D!
I'm almost crying out of frustration, because I think I'm shocked it didn't work. What kid chooses to stay home rather than do something fun? Mine.
My son. He HATES to leave the house. When I do is threaten to take away whatever it is he's having fun doing at home. Buuuuuuuuuuuut, IF he comes out with me and behaves, he gets to come back home and continue doing whatever it was he was doing.
My brother and I almost always behaved for my parents. I don't even really remember having consequences or angry words. We just didn't question them. Ugh, I don't know where I went wrong, but DD is not like that AT ALL. She's at a stage where she fights every single thing H and I ask her to do.
I do know that yelling doesn't work. She understands that drawing me into her drama helps her cause. Consequences -- nope, those rarely work, either. I used to be so strict, but now I'm seeing that the reasoning with your child approach actually works best with DD. She smiles and complies much more readily when she feels that I'm listening to her, and that she has some control.
It's really annoying. I used to feel like it was namby-pamby too. But for DD, I've got to stop and negotiate with her. At least this week, that's what's working.
Everything could be child-specific.
It's good for me to hear about different approaches.
My only anecdotal experience is that my friends who attempt to "reason" with their children generally have terribly behaved children, while my "harsher" friends have little saints. LOL.
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
i am terrified my child will walk all over me. i want to be a no-nonsense kind of mom, but i can.not. handle yelling of any kind because of my own childhood. i'm totally going to raise the most spoiled brat ever, aren't i?
My only anecdotal experience is that my friends who attempt to "reason" with their children generally have terribly behaved children, while my "harsher" friends have little saints. LOL.
Yeah, that's exactly how I saw it, too, pre-children. Until about a year ago, I was all, "Tiger Mom, Fuck Yeah!" And I still think firm boundaries are the way to go.
But with this girl, it is not working. She's locked in her room again, crying, because I took away ice cream, because she didn't do what I asked. This has been every day this week. Maybe a light bulb will go off in her head someday, Hellen Keller-style, and she'll get that things will be better if she listens to me?
Sigh. I should have listened when every single person from H's home town said, "Oh, he was such and awful child." He's fantastic now, so I guess I only have 13 more years to ride this out. lol(ish)
@misoangry yes, I raise my voice/yell sometimes, but I have learned that it's not effective. All it does is escalate the problem, and it doesn't make the kids any more compliant. After all, if what they are after is just attention and control, then negative attention works just as well as positive and they see that they can control your emotions and ability to maintain composure. They may have other consequences, but it's not a total loss for them, because they see that they manipulated you into reacting. I've found that when I can maintain my composure and disengage emotionally, the behavior stops much quicker and the consequences work better at deterring similar behavior in the future.
QFT
I'm learning this the hard way with my 12 year old SS.
Don't threaten specific consequences. Discipline a kid for behavior immediately no second Chances And be vague about consequences. 'there's big trouble coming' or 'you're going to be sorry you did that'
Can you elaborate on the reasoning behind giving vague consequences? Do I need to warm up to the idea of my child imagining that I could drop them off on the side of the road at any moment to be a good disciplinarian? I think I'm sitting with Ash and now I'm worried a future child of mine will just be a menace to society LOL
Don't threaten specific consequences. Discipline a kid for behavior immediately no second Chances And be vague about consequences. 'there's big trouble coming' or 'you're going to be sorry you did that'
Can you expand on this a bit please. C just turned 2. I think she did not come equipped with listening ears.
Post by shostakovich on Oct 3, 2013 17:47:05 GMT -5
Yelling never really scared me as a kid. I was raised in a loud household - everyone just kind of yelled all the time. Happy? Yell about it. Angry? Yell about it. Confused? Yell about it.
It was when our parents used really quiet, calm voices - spoken through clenched teeth when they were super mad - that scared the everloving shit out my sister and me.
Both of our parents also honed "the look" to perfection.
G sounds like my 2.5 year old. Just today, she told me "I'm very mad mommy. Go away." Why was she mad, you ask? Because her sandwich was cut in the middle, rather than diagonally.
I must say, now that I have a toddler I consume much more wine than I used to.
I have been known to close my windows and turn on the air conditioning for the express purpose of yelling at my children. Also, when the kids were preschool-ish we lived in military housing, and had the choice of smaller housing constructed of cement blocks, or more spacious housing, but shoddily constructed. I picked the cement block housing because I knew my voice would not travel as well through cement. True story.
(In my defense, I yelled far less once I got onto anti-d's.)
i am terrified my child will walk all over me. i want to be a no-nonsense kind of mom, but i can.not. handle yelling of any kind because of my own childhood. i'm totally going to raise the most spoiled brat ever, aren't i?
Not necessarily. I'm sure you'll do a great job!
I don't yell, but I have a non-threatening voice so I had to force myself to sound more stern when disciplining. I squat down to their level, look them in the eyes, and tell them what's up in a mom-is-not-messing-around tone.
I have found that consistency and follow-through are key though. I also learned and got down "the look" early on, and that works wonders!
I follow a lot of what my mom did. She was the most loving mom and is the sweetest person in the world, but there was never any doubt that she was in charge.
I feel like my mother parented me in a very different fashion from the way today's American parents parent their children. There is no right or wrong way to go about these things, but I just know our household was likely rife with behaviors and activity that would dismay many mothers here.
Cross your fingers I can strike a reasonable balance and not become a completely raging tiger mother.
(But, really, who are we kidding? We already know the sad truth about me and my future ways.)
Don't take this the wrong way, but you may be lazy enough to avoid being a tiger mother.
Like, sometimes I feel like yelling at Lu but then I'm like, "Hey, if I just **let** her climb on the back of the couch she won't be bugging me for shit."
And so that is usually my method. Very little yelling. And she's reasonably polite.
LOL. I can be pretty lazy.
My niece and nephew are amazing little children. They are so well-behaved yet interesting and fun. However, they are the children of my brother-in-law and sister-in-law, who are the nicest, kindest, most even-keeled people on earth, whereas Mr. Miso and I are...well, not as nice. Those kids are their parents. Our kid will be us. And horrible. Hahahahaha.
I'm late to this thread but I've always said that there's nothing wrong with having your child fear you. I know mine do. I'm the bad cop and my DH is Prince Charming to my 3yr old. To give you an example of the differences in our effectiveness....I've heard DH say "fine! I'm going to go get your mom!!!!" I know it whips her into shape when I'm not in the room.
I'm late to this thread but I've always said that there's nothing wrong with having your child fear you. I know mine do. I'm the bad cop and my DH is Prince Charming to my 3yr old. To give you an example of the differences in our effectiveness....I've heard DH say "fine! I'm going to go get your mom!!!!" I know it whips her into shape when I'm not in the room.
We're working on that.
I cannot relate to wanting my child to fear me. I think that is *very* dangerous territory. How can a child trust you if they're afraid of you? There is everything wrong with wanting your children to be afraid of you.
i yell more than i should in the mornings before school. it's before his meds have kicked in but i can't tell if he's choosing to be an asshole or if he just can't self-regulate without his medicine. it's stuff like this:
me: (calmly) we were supposed to have left five minutes ago but you took 45 minutes to eat a bowl of cereal! please go put on your shoes.
jonah: okay. (then he goes to his room and never comes out.)
me: ARE YOU SERIOUSLY ON THE FLOOR PLAYING LEGOS?!??!? WHERE ARE YOU SHOES?!?!?? WHY ARE YOU PLAYING LEGOS??!?!??!! LET'S GOOOOOOO!!!! OHMYGOD, JONAH!!!!
then i provide a guilt-stricken apology in the driveway and we're all good and singing in the car by the time we get to school. cycle of abuse anyone?
See, this is the exact scenario that I don't understand how to deal with. Now, I don't have kids yet, but I've learned a ton from all these wonderful ML ladies. I get the situation when you're not on a time crunch or the consequence can be taking something away. How do you get through to them, quickly and in the moment, that they need to get ready to go RIGHT NOW and there's not way around it? It's not like I can say "Sam, if you don't put your shoes on right this second, you don't get to watch tv tonight," because Sam can continue to be a little brat and keep playing. So what's the immediate consequence? Do I put Sam's shoes on for him and whisk him out the door?
i yell more than i should in the mornings before school. it's before his meds have kicked in but i can't tell if he's choosing to be an asshole or if he just can't self-regulate without his medicine. it's stuff like this:
me: (calmly) we were supposed to have left five minutes ago but you took 45 minutes to eat a bowl of cereal! please go put on your shoes.
jonah: okay. (then he goes to his room and never comes out.)
me: ARE YOU SERIOUSLY ON THE FLOOR PLAYING LEGOS?!??!? WHERE ARE YOU SHOES?!?!?? WHY ARE YOU PLAYING LEGOS??!?!??!! LET'S GOOOOOOO!!!! OHMYGOD, JONAH!!!!
then i provide a guilt-stricken apology in the driveway and we're all good and singing in the car by the time we get to school. cycle of abuse anyone?
See, this is the exact scenario that I don't understand how to deal with. Now, I don't have kids yet, but I've learned a ton from all these wonderful ML ladies. I get the situation when you're not on a time crunch or the consequence can be taking something away. How do you get through to them, quickly and in the moment, that they need to get ready to go RIGHT NOW and there's not way around it? It's not like I can say "Sam, if you don't put your shoes on right this second, you don't get to watch tv tonight," because Sam can continue to be a little brat and keep playing. So what's the immediate consequence? Do I put Sam's shoes on for him and whisk him out the door?
Since you can still pick him up, I'd pick him up without shoes, and put him in the car. The first time or two, I'd put an extra pair of shoes in the car, without him knowing, and let him put them on later, before you get out at your destination (especially since, in most cases, my kids would feel bad/apologize by then). After once or twice, though, it becomes pretty apparent to them that their choice is going with shoes or going without shoes, but they are going.
I'm late to this thread but I've always said that there's nothing wrong with having your child fear you. I know mine do. I'm the bad cop and my DH is Prince Charming to my 3yr old. To give you an example of the differences in our effectiveness....I've heard DH say "fine! I'm going to go get your mom!!!!" I know it whips her into shape when I'm not in the room.
We're working on that.
I cannot relate to wanting my child to fear me. I think that is *very* dangerous territory. How can a child trust you if they're afraid of you? There is everything wrong with wanting your children to be afraid of you.
I don't think anyone is talking about fear as in actual terror. More like filial fear, so respect and fear of disappointing someone you love. I was never scared of punishment as a kid, only of the disappointed look @stalkermom would give me if I did something wrong.
Example, I once got a 30% on a math test in middle school because I wasn't grasping the concept. I started crying hysterically in class and got sent to the Counselor. She started asking me all these questions about if my parents were going to punish me and if that's why I was crying/afraid. I was aghast, because I knew I wouldn't be in real trouble, I was upset because I thought my parents would be disappointed.
Don't threaten specific consequences. Discipline a kid for behavior immediately no second Chances And be vague about consequences. 'there's big trouble coming' or 'you're going to be sorry you did that'
I love this approach Sue Sue. It will give us time to formulate a more appropriate discipline than a knee jerk reaction.
I've also been trying your "they say kids that do a don't get b"
Good god, wth would I do without you guys as a parenting sounding board?
my hippie self tries (sometimes successfully) to think about what the lesson i want him to learn in the moment is. do i want him to learn that if he's disobedient then there will be consequences? (which is a 100000000% legit and fully necessary lessson) OR to do i want him to learn that we ARE doing what i say we're doing (going to school, leaving the store, going to the doctor) and i'll help him get there. i have the same conversation with myself when he's struggling to clean the giant pile of legos he has dumped out. do i want him to learn that it's his mess and he is responsible for cleaning it up, or that we help each other in this family and that he is expected to help others since he got help with his legos?
I think you want them to learn all those lessons, which is why I think consistency is overrated. I can tell the difference between when one of my kids is overwhelmed or just what's to push my buttons. I know when they want attention, and I can redirect them from seeking negative attention by offering to help them clean up or with their chores. I talk to them and try to help them understand that even though they aren't being punished and/or we are spending time together, I didn't like their behavior. Sometimes this conversation can happen in the moment, sometimes it is better received later. This may only work for older kids, but it has worked really well with both my boys.
Yep, we were about to go out to run some errands. V climbed in his little sister's crib and then screamed for me to get him out. When I asked him to talk nicely, he screamed again. He went straight to bed. Ugh. 3 is looking bleak.
Oh shit yeah, 3 sucks hard, and I've got two of them
Yes, I yell and then I feel like a piece of shit and guilt consumes me. It's a vicious cycle. I've often wanted to ask about it here, but I'm afraid of the answers and what they say about me, lol.
I will say though, sometimes a well timed voice raising is the only thing that will cut through the bullshit.
This is quite true. I've noticed typical yelling is met with little girl laughter, which is infuriating, so I try not to sink to their level lol, however sometimes by the end of the night I can do a stern loud this is nonsense and I'm not putting up with it so just stop NOW And they get all straight faced
My parents yelled. I was a meek little mouse and absolutely terrified of them. I can still hear my mother screaming my name. I would often wake up with a start as I was falling asleep because I had dreamed her screaming my name.
I said this earlier in the thread, I know, but I do my best to not yell. I don't want my kids afraid of me. I want them to be afraid of disappointing me. I don't want them to fear me.
Maybe I'm extremely lucky in the kid department, but so far occasions that I've felt like yelling have been over reactions on my part and ineffectual in the discipline department. Henry responds to taking away toys or talks. The times I have yelled have done nothing except make me feel bad.
My kid does much better with complying if I tell him up front what the consequences of his misbehavior will be. The key is figuring out what your kid's currency is.