If you are committed to breastmilk, I would suggest working with a board certified lacation consultant to improve Misotiny's latch. Breastfeeding is like any relationship- it requires work from both parties to reach optimum levels.
Most moms have less than great results with pumping early on. It's really best to avoid pumps until lactation is well established around 6 weeks. But sometimes it's necessary when the bebe has some health issues.
Some moms don't let down well to a pump. You can improve your odds by sniffing a sleeper she's worn (creepy, I know) and looking at her picture. Or try pumping one side while she is on the other. Try to pump in the morning when most moms have the more copious supply- evenings are generally the worst. Some moms find manual expression (using your hands) more efficient than even a hospital grade pump. It worth having a LC show you how to do this.
IME, nipple shields cause more problems than they solve. because they interrupt the feedback loop for milk production, they can make things worse rather than better.
Good luck. This may be a natural process but it isn't always intuitive or easy.
I can't see a ticker but she isn't a month old yet right?
It seemed hopeless to me for a while. The shield saved us, as did the breastflow bottles. They helped the boys latch. Then by 6/7 weeks it was better and we were in a groove just in time for me to be a slave to the pump at work.
Miso Andy and I went through something similar. Bad latching, too little too late and my supply was bad at the start. I supplemented when he lost wayyyy too much weight. I remember rejoicing with my LC when I pumped a full ounce, combined from both sides. I had LCs coming to the house every other day for the first three weeks of his life. It was awful.
Ultimately his latch got better. I got better. I learned to massage to maximize my production. Fenugreek didn't help much although super hydration and brewers yeast did. I got to a point where I could nurse him successfully, or pump 4 ounces total. I never stopped supplementing and I think that enabled me to have a less stressful, happier nursing relationship with him. We did it for 7 months and I was proud of that.
Nobody can tell you what to do, whether you will regret stopping or not. It's so personal, and of course it is still early and things may turn around.
For me, I'll say this. Nursing did get better for me and Andy, and there came a time I felt good about it. I was proud of making it to 7 months. But, and this is a big but, when I think about the stress nursing caused me in the first 6 weeks, and how maybe I didn't bond or enjoy him as much as I could have, I don't think I would put myself through that again.
Every three hours for 15 minutes, per lactation consultants' (yes, plural) advice.
Try for longer periods. At this point I wouldn't be worried about an oversupply. Also, google power pumping one of my many lactation consultants recommended it to me. I don't remember specifics though. I believe it is 10 minutes pumping, 20 minutes off for an hour or two.
I managed to EP for 7 months, but early on we were doing a mix of pumped and formula. In time (like several weeks in) I was able to get enough to through pumping to drop the formula.
I took fenugreek until things seemed well-established at about 3 months, and I also ate at least one bowl of real oatmeal a day (and drowned the rest of my sorrows in oatmeal cookies).
I also second the above suggestion to pump MORE than 15 mins at a time. I would get a second let down at ~18 mins and all of a sudden it would really flow. I never stopped pumping without a second letdown, and I didn't watch the clock so much as let down. It might also be worth it (God, I hate myself for saying this because I felt like pumping was all I ever did) to toss in a few extra pumps for a few days. I think about it a nursing newborn would cluster feed, so I think throwing in the extras might trick your body into more/supply & demand and all that.
Also, a friend who had preemie in the NICU received a Rx for a drug that's for ulcers but often prescribed for increasing milk.
Good luck...it is truly the hardest thing I have done since pumping for 7 months while on mat leave the whole time meant putting baby down when happy, pumping, and only attending to him when unhappy. I go back and forth on whether I would do it again for a second child if it came to that. Maybe? It seems like a distant memory now, but I remember being sooooooooooo frustrated and stressed.
Ooh i also noticed a huge supply increase once I could tandem feed. I wonder if pumping 1 breast while feeding her would help. Like a jump start to your boob hormones.
I get, like, half an ounce TOTAL from both boobs per session.
It's ok Miso, truly.
Your baby is still tiny and your supply could still be figuring itself out. It takes 6w for your supply to "regulate".
Babies are always more efficient at the breast, so she is probably getting more than that when you are feeding her - what you pump does not equal what they ingest when at the boob (it's more.)
I would up your pumping to every 2 hours and start downing oatmeal in addition to some dark beer. Visit your health food store and get mothers milk drops to put under your tongue (can't remember the name of the herb! but they work!)
It is so, so hard. I'm sorry For some reason-- and I don't know it; I'm sorry-- I only got a half an ounce or an ounce for the first month or so that I pumped. Maybe it took that long for my milk to come in? We supplemented and I nursed, in the meantime.
Then, when I went back to work, I had to look at pics and videos of DS while pumping in order to get a letdown (even now, I have a hard time getting a letdown and can often pump for 20 minutes to get half an ounce). Once I got a letdown, though, I could pump a few more ounces.
I can't see a ticker but she isn't a month old yet right?
It seemed hopeless to me for a while. The shield saved us, as did the breastflow bottles. They helped the boys latch. Then by 6/7 weeks it was better and we were in a groove just in time for me to be a slave to the pump at work.
She just turned two weeks old yesterday.
Okay. You're in the thick of it.
It gets better. Even if the bfing doesn't work the stress and the anxiety and the WHY THE FUCK CAN'T I FEED MY BABY IT'S A BASIC FUCKING THING gets better. You will be confident in your decision to either keep goin, supplement more, or stop as she gets older.
I can't see a ticker but she isn't a month old yet right?
It seemed hopeless to me for a while. The shield saved us, as did the breastflow bottles. They helped the boys latch. Then by 6/7 weeks it was better and we were in a groove just in time for me to be a slave to the pump at work.
She just turned two weeks old yesterday.
Is there a compelling reason to pump right now. My LC buddies would tell you to go to bed and snuggle and cluster feed.
And forgive me, but I'm not going to answer any more questions that have already been answered in this thread.
I'm that irritated right now.
Maybe this place is hurting more than helping...pumping isn't fun for ANY of us that have had to do it.
Help us understand what you want support with her - tips for producing more milk or that it's ok to move on to FF? I'm pretty sure no matter what, you'll have a ton of support no matter what you choose.
I'm angry just reading about people with four ounces in here.
Seriously.
i got way better help at LLL than i did from an LC who charged me $239 an hour. also, both of my LLL leaders combo fed bm and formula. LLL isnt' the birkenstock boob nazis everybody thinks they are. i'm just saying that IF you are looking for a good resource, they're an internationally recognized good resource.
again, average mom gets 1 oz per session from both sides combined.
The hospital at which I delivered had a Nursing Mothers Advisory Council- think LLL Lite. They shaved their legs and nether regions, wore makeup and sometimes drank. They were awesome.
Post by sparkythelawyer on Feb 10, 2014 18:12:17 GMT -5
I know it does not mean much coming from someone who has made zero humans, but it really is ok for you to throw your hands up in the air, scream "Fuck this Shit" and switch to formula. If you've had all you can stand, there is no need to keep banging your head against the wall. Sorry you're having a rough time, hope things get better for you.
Is there a compelling reason to pump right now. My LC buddies would tell you to go to bed and snuggle and cluster feed.
I can't answer for miso, but I feel compelled to say this was the worst possible advice I got when I was in that position. "Just cluster feed" is so upsetting, guilt inducing and depression enhancing advice when you have a baby who won't latch. And none of that negative emotion helps mom produce. So I kept Andy at the breast as often as we could and it was the best we could do.
I am a lurker but will reply because I HATED pumping! It seriously sucked. When DD was 1st born I would get 1-2oz out per boob at most. And that took forever. She would eat at the boob but it was painful as all hell!! People would say oh don't worry by 8 wks or so there won't be any pain and you will have the hang of it. I was like 8 wks! I couldn't even imagine making it another 8 days at that point. I didn't have any medical issues at birth but DD did. She started having seizures at about a week and a half old. That landed us back in the hospital. The seizures on top of the feeding issues just made me so stressed and anxious about everything. By 4 wks I had switched completely to formula. I definitely felt guilty about it but for my own sanity I know it was the right decision. DD is a happy healthy almost 6 year old now!
With my first kid, pumping only made me cry. I produced so little milk. My happiest day was when I gave up the pump and just let whatever be, be. DD1 nursed at my breast to get whatever she could, then we finished up each feeding with formula. Of course, she eventually figured out that bottles were way more satisfying than boobs and stopped wanting to nurse, but the whole process was fine once I stopped beating myself up about it.
When DD2 came along, a lactation consultant observed me nursing and pumping. She discovered I have a super-slow let down. It takes about 12-15 minutes for the milk to really start flowing. So pumping for that amount of time only primed my breasts. I got fairly good production between 12 and 20 minutes, not before.
Now, pumping for 20-25 minutes every 3 hours is a drag. Eventually, things got better but for a while the whole production was all-consuming.
Post by Mrs. ChanandlerBong on Feb 10, 2014 18:15:04 GMT -5
For what my story is worth, I stay at home and only pumped so I could leave the damn house with out having to be back in time to nurse. I did try to build up a freezer stash with my 2nd, because I learned with my first that even though I'm a 38G, they don't really work for the milk.
I would pump for 20 minutes and get less than 3 oz combined.
I never produced a lot with either child and it made nursing so frustrating.
I only stuck with it because I'm cheap, but hindsight being what it is, I should have stopped at 3 or so weeks with both kids. After that I pretty much made myself miserable until they were weaned.
Can you get a hospital grade pump? I've heard that those are better at getting the oz out than the regular pumps.
I think people are reading the thread and all have good intentions with their responses - I haven't seen anyone who hasn't birthed a kid chime in with advice.
Look, we've all been there. Sure BF'ing is easier for some than it is for others. But we need to know what Miso actually wants from us here, because that's becoming unclear.
I also had low supply, coupled with the fact that I had to cut out all dairy and eggs, thus killing my supply even more. So I totally sympathize, but think maybe this place is stressing her out more than helping at the moment.
She has 3 pages full of support, but she's irritated, which tells me she would be better served to go try and get some sleep
ETA: With the exception of Auntie...you can just leave this post right now.
And forgive me, but I'm not going to answer any more questions that have already been answered in this thread.
I'm that irritated right now.
Maybe this place is hurting more than helping...pumping isn't fun for ANY of us that have had to do it.
Help us understand what you want support with her - tips for producing more milk or that it's ok to move on to FF? I'm pretty sure no matter what, you'll have a ton of support no matter what you choose.
I'm predominantly interested in hearing from people who have had similar difficulties and how they coped, whether they ultimately found breast-feeding and/or pumping success or went to exclusively formula-feeding.
I am NOT interested in hearing from people who did NOT have difficulties and just want to tell me to eat this or take that or do this or that WHEN THEY HAD NO PROBLEMS THEMSELVES.
Is there a compelling reason to pump right now. My LC buddies would tell you to go to bed and snuggle and cluster feed.
I can't answer for miso, but I feel compelled to say this was the worst possible advice I got when I was in that position. "Just cluster feed" is so upsetting, guilt inducing and depression enhancing advice when you have a baby who won't latch. And none of that negative emotion helps mom produce. So I kept Andy at the breast as often as we could and it was the best we could do.
Amen sister.
The thought of cluster feeding with Gabriel still gives me palpitations.
Post by missmaddie on Feb 10, 2014 18:17:56 GMT -5
And DS would. not. latch. 2 different LCs said they had never seen a baby lift his tongue to the roof of his mouth so strongly, thus putting it in the way.
It isn't surprising at her age/gestation/time away from you that she won't latch either. That does not make it easier, just predictable.
Holding a starving and screaming baby who wouldn't latch wasn't working and we had to turn to pumping too..it wasn't as easy as "The baby will get more through direct nursing...," which I think has been missed by a few in your OP.
The most frustrating thing is when people who have had no issues constantly ask if you've tried xyz. I tried every fucking thing. Oatmeal, water, lactation cookies, hospital grade pump, hand expressing, nipple shield, fenugreek (all that did was make me stink). NOTHING worked. I'm getting irritated just thinking about it. Lol.
I get, like, half an ounce TOTAL from both boobs per session.
It's been a long, long time, so I can't give you numbers. i can tell you I had a lot, lot, lot of trouble bfing, and pumping was more productive for me for the first 10 weeks. I had supply problems, and had a great deal of success with fenugreek (capsules), which someone else mentioned earlier. I also avoided antihistamines like the devil. And I way, way, way overpumped. No one actually ever mentioned to me that you're only "supposed" to pump x numbers of minutes on each side, so I pumped until I was empty. Eventually I was getting 8 oz per side. But I wasn't getting much more than you are getting in those early days.
I know from previous posts you're doing at least some of these, but this is what worked for me: 1 a really good hospital pump. This is critical. 2 fenugreek. I want to say I was taking a handful of capsules a couple of times a day, but I dont remember numbers. 3 pump often. Pump more often than you would feed the baby (she's mst in my head, btw) if you were ebfing. 4 drink gallons of water. And hot tea. But stay away from caffeine. 5 this one's harder, but sleep through the night if you can. Even if it's not every night, can your h do nighttime feedings sometime (not to imply that he's not doing this already). Being rested is so critical, not just for the production of milk, but for your ability to handle the ten thousand new strssors in your life.
i'm irritated with you reading the same replies and questions over and over again.
i FF from the beginning, but i just wanted to offer support for whatever you end up doing. misotiny needs to eat, and she needs a happy mom. i'm sorry this is a struggle for you
Do you find your boobs responding better when you do try to breast feed? It is VERY common for women who've been on mag and separated from their babies to have supply issues. Sometimes they can bring their supply up, sometimes they can't. It's really up to you if you want to pull out all the stops and try meds and cluster pumping, etc but there is absolutely nothing wrong with stopping. Having a newborn is hard enough, pumping and having a newborn is super hard, and then add in the frustration you're feeling and it's even worse. Do whatever is going to be best for YOU, we all know misotiny is going to be a genius regardless of what you feed her