Lurker, but wanted to give you my experience. I had my daughter at 31 weeks after I had HELLP syndrome. I was in the hospital for 6 days on all kinds of meds and she was in the NICU for 5 weeks. I produced maybe 2 ounces a day. So, we formula fed her. I still pumped while I was home on maternity leave because I thought any day I would start producing more. It never happened, so I stopped and felt so much better. I just had another baby last July. He was not early and neither of us had any problems. I tried pumping again thinking for sure I would produce more this time. Nope, didn't happen. I stopped pumping after 3 weeks this time because I knew from the time before I would be happier not having the anxiety of trying to produce more. Moral of the story, you are not alone and your sanity is worth everything.
Can I tell you that all I wanted was someone who would tell me it was ok to stop? And no one did. It was all "do this, try that, I can fill a gallon container, what's wrong with you/your pump/your diet, etc.
So I'm going to say it.
It's ok to stop. I would give anything to have that time with my kids back at that stage and have me be happy than to remember it the way I do.
Huge hugs, lady. Whatever you decide to do, Misotiny will be a healthy girl.
Just wanted to reiterate this. I don't like to talk about how I reached the decision to FF, because I struggled enough with guilt over it, and there is too much judgment out there for me to (still) be able to just brush that off, but I will say that the worst thing to deal with in the thick of it was people telling me what to do or try. I know that they meant well, and maybe I should not have turned to exclusive BFing moms for support despite their good intentions, but all I really needed to hear was that it was okay to stop, and that formula is just fine, and that what I should have been doing was enjoying my baby in her first days/weeks instead of dreading each feeding and feeling sick with anxiety.
The first several weeks post-partum were hard enough, and the hormones did a good enough job alone of making me feel crazy, overwhelmed, scared, and like a failure without adding feeding guilt on top of it. I won't put myself through that again, and if you don't want to put yourself through it anymore, it really is okay to not try anything and to just stop.
I'm sorry you are going through this. It is so hard.
ounces in the first couple of weeks is fantastic. They really aren't eating that much yet, and yes, it is constant around the clock.
For what it's worth, trying to pump and breastfeed made me completely melt down, because I constantly had something attached to my boobs and it sucked. So, I said I was just going to breastfeed and screw the pump and supplement with formula if I had to.
What worked pretty well was letting the baby clusterfeed until about 11pm and then I handed him over to DH and let him give him formula. My supply was still getting stimulated, and the baby got a nice full belly and allowed me to sleep for a few precious hours. We were able to drop that night formula feed after 2-3 weeks. Good luck with whatever you do - you are a great mom for even worrying about this...
I had low supply with DD, as she was a micro preemie. I pumped the whole time she was in the hospital but never made anywhere close to enough. We figured it was because she was a preemie. Then DS was born and I had low supply again. Nothing worked. Even though we eventually got him to latch, the problem was me.
I power pumped, chugged oatmeal, Mother's Milk tea. I tried Reglan but it gave me horrible side effects. I was eventually able to get up to several ounces a day, and pumped until he was 8 months old, but I never got anywhere close to full supply. Sometimes, we just don't make enough. And that's okay.
Although it is not abnormal to have very low supply, it is anomalous, so don't assume you'll never get there either. It is a struggle but many women have worked up to full or close to full supply (as is evidenced by the replies). Here is a list of everything suggested to me (some are repeated, but I want to make sure I don't miss anything): 1. power pump once a day 2. pump at least 20 minutes per breast, per session 3. massage your breasts before pumping to encourage letdown 4. use a warm compress beforehand to encourage letdown 5. do skin to skin as much as possible 6. oatmeal, dark beer, and lactation cookies 7. Mother's Milk tea. It doesn't taste great, but if you drink it hot, it's okay 8. Talk to your doctor about domperidone or reglan. Like I said, I had bad side effects (like PPD), but that's uncommon, so it's worth a shot 9. fenugreek. Take tons of it. I think kellymom.com has a recommended dose.
I know we don't know each other, but if you have any more questions or just need to vent to someone feel free to PM me.
All the best to you! Who knew that something simple for most A FEW would be sheer suffering for us? Boo!
FTFY.
I truly believe it is simple for only a FEW.
I believe there are certainly some challenges involved for many, even though it's not discussed.
I know it can be torture for others.
Even though very few of us had the exact same struggles you're currently having, this notion in society that it's easy and natural upset me to no end, and it's only when stuff like this comes up that people share their minor-major struggles. People have no problem telling expectant mothers their labor horror stories or how they won't get any sleep for 2 years ("ha ha!"), but nobody says beforehand that feeding your baby is hard, it may not happen the way you expected it to, and there are acceptable options...but in the end it will be okay. It's only when someone is exhausted, feels like a failure, recovering from major bodily changes, and hormonal and sleep-deprived that we try to reason with and reassure them.
One day you will look back on this and know you made the right decision for you and your daughter, whatever that happens to be.
Hi I mostly lurk, but I felt like breastfeeding was the hardest thing I ever had to do.
My first son had jaundice and after 2 days of latch issues, the nurse helped me with a nipple shield. I would nurse for 30 minutes, pump the 1/2 oz I could get out and then bottle feed that. I would have to wake him up with a cool washcloth so he would eat because he would stop after 5 minutes. I could never pump more than a couple ozs and that was after hours of pumping.I would stay up late to try to get in another session. and cry in frustration when I would get 2 drops. I read and tried mostly anything: I would massage, put a heating pad on for 10 minutes before pumping because I heard that helped. I drank tea, took fenugreek, I think I had 4 different bottles of herbs. I did the dual nurse/pump each session for 6 weeks before he didn't have a hard time nursing. I gave up on pumping and only nursed.
My second son was born at 35 weeks. I didn't even hold for a day and then he had an iv, feeding tube, and oxygen attached. Me, I just had my 2nd c-section. My little guy was too weak to nurse at first. He didn't even try until he was 4 days old. we just put him to the breast, kangaroo care, for a minute or 2 at first.
One thing I found was even better was LatchAssist by lansinoh.I don't have inverted nipples, but it sort of was like having a nipple shield but it was my own nipple not plastic. I could use it to temporary pump up my nipple. In the beginning I supplemented, then was able to do the dual nurse/pump with a hospital grade pump, and stopped pumping and only nursed at week 8.
Third kid. Jaundice. Same as other times: nursing (using the LatchAssist) and pumping.I even bought another pump to see if it would help more since it was a newer version. NOPE. No more than 1 or 2 ozs after 30 minutes. Again took about 6 weeks for me not to do the nurse/pump combo.
They never tell you how hard it is. It should come naturally. For me it was HARD.
I'm sorry Miso . My situation is not quite the same but I had a really hard time producing with a pump. I tried everything but I never got much output and it was beyond frustrating. I added in as many pump sessions as possible, I power pumped, I cried when I worried if I'd have enough for the next day. Both my kids were eventually formula fed, and after a few initial tears at giving it up, my overwhelming feeling was relief. The freedom! I was beyond happy to never have to see that stupid pump again.
And I also want to ditto what eclaires said before. It just doesn't make that much of a difference. The older my kids get the more I realize that all these decision we fretted about when they were babies were just decisions. No major impact on the rest of their life. I couldn't tell you who in DS's 1st grade class was breastfed or formula fed or coslept or drank coke in the bottle. The most important thing is that your child feels loved and safe and wanted.
I will admit that I had an ok time breastfeeding and didn't have latch issues, but...in the beginning I found pumping to be incredibly difficult and really, really painful. I'd pump for 30 min and get maaaybe a 1/2 oz. combined. But I was desperate b/c (in my mind at the time) it was the only way to get more than 2 hrs sleep at a time.
After a few weeks of solid pumping, it became much, much easier. Not sure why - I never received any good tips or tricks that seemed to make a difference. Just, over time, it stopped hurting and I was able to produce a lot more. GL -I hated (HATED!) that pump. Bleck!
I remember being told to pump while I was in the hospital, and producing a few dribbles of colostrum. Those dribbles promptly ran down my stomach as I removed the pump and they were completely wasted. I had no idea how to collect it.
The nurse later told me that colostrum was liquid gold. :rage:
I was like "wtf?" No one had bothered to really tell me *how* to pump. And the nurses all had different advice re: nursing.
- I also spilled about 1/2 oz of breast milk. And we both had thrush. Talk about painful.
The one plus was that when I decided to completely stop pumping and nursing, it wasn't that difficult.
I had a hell of a time trying to breastfeed my first born. Jaundice, supply issues, intolerance to something (everything?) in my diet. In hindsight, I was miserable. Plus, pumping at work sucked.
Before #2 and #3 came along, I gave myself permission to let go of the breastfeeding dream. So much so that when they were born via c/s at 37 weeks, I was already asking nurses for extra bottles of formula. I started out supplementing them with formula after each nursing session and it helped eased my mind that they were getting enough. I think we switched to full formula by about 4 weeks.
I know it's hard in the moment with all the hormones and shit, but it really is okay to just be done with breastfeeding. You tried it, you gave it your best shot, and it's not working. Formula's great too.
I get, like, half an ounce TOTAL from both boobs per session.
This was me. It's a mindfuck. I opted not to even try bfing dd2 because I couldn't deal with the emotional stress. Best decision ever. Please don't feel bad if bfing doesn't work out.
@misoangry My twins were in the NICU for over a month and were IV and tube fed for 2+weeks before they could even try nursing. That was not good for my supply (hahaha, if you call 10mls a supply) or my mental health.
I probably should have given up, but I am a stubborn ass who felt every ounce (pun intended) of guilt the BF campaign shoved down my throat.
I wanted to give a huge middle finger to the people who swore by fenugreek. To the people who said, "just nurse more" as if that were possible with babies who couldn't latch even with a nipple shield and who tore the shit out of my nipples. To the NICU nurse who was condescending about the amount I brought in from home as if I hadn't been up every 2 hours pumping for 30+ minutes. To the people who said, "just call LLL!!"
I have no advice to add that hasn't been mentioned in this thread, but wanted to give you a virtual hug.
I think I officially was insane when I pumped in a Barnes and Noble bathroom in between a dentist and eye doctor appt. I realized I had forgotten the tops of the bottles, and took a cab holding paper towel over my bottle of 1 ounce of BM to the closest CVS to buy a container with a lid. Just so my boys could have a few drops of liquid gold added to their formula.
Neither of my kids was a premie, but both had latch issues in the beginning. I pumped a lot with both, and spent way too much time (especially with my first) feeling angry and resentful that I couldn't make breastfeeding work. Like so many others, in retrospect I wish I had focused less on breastfeeding and more on bonding with my babies. As it is, one of my strongest memories of DS 1's infancy is sobbing my eyes out when he spit up an entire feeding at 4-5 days old. I wasn't worried about my baby in that moment, just about the amount of breastmilk that was 'wasted' in the spitup and the hours I'd need to spend nursing and pumping to feed him again. I really wish I didn't have that memory.
FTR, I *did* take a baseball bat to my pump when it was all said and done.
No one here can tell you whether or not to keep trying to breastfeed. I really hope that you make it over this newborn hump soon, though, and offer you all the internet stranger support I can during a time that sucks for so many reasons.
Dd was 8 weeks early and I pumped a million times a day (not really, but it sure felt like it) and barely got 2 ounces each time. I tried everything to up my supply. Including having a really shitty experience with the LC at the hospital that basically said I wasn't trying hard enough. I never did really establish a "supply" with her and quit pumping/trying to bf with her before she left the hospital at 5 weeks old.
Ds latched fine, but wasn't gaining weight because of my shitty supply so I had to start pumping and supplementing with formula. Again, I was barely getting 2 ounces each time I pumped. I was dead set on bf'ing him though since I wasn't able to bf dd. I saw two different LC's at the hospital (different ones from when I had dd thank goodness), had a home health nurse come to the house for weight checks/advice, talked with someone from LLL, and stopped just short of taking prescription meds to up my supply. Ds has a tongue tie though so I think that might have had something to do with his issues. I finally quit pumping/bf'ing about a month after I went back to work (so ds was 5 months old) because I was so stressed about it and wasn't producing enough for it to be worth it.
I'm not sure if that helps, but I just want to say that only you know what is best for you. And it's ok if you decide that it isn't worth the effort anymore. You tried, and that's all anyone can ask of you. You are a great mom. I'm sorry you are having issues. (((HUGS)))
Post by blessed2bmama on Feb 11, 2014 0:38:42 GMT -5
I EP'd for 17 months. In the beginning I was getting anywhere from 1/4 oz-1/2oz per 30 min session. I pumped every 3 hours around the clock for the first year. I started spacing pumps out on her first birthday. After the first month or so, with the help of new (larger) breast shields, fenugreek, 2 rounds of reglan, lactation cookies and all the water I could force down, I was up to 1.5-2 oz per session. Sonewhere around 5-6 months I was getting 4-6 oz in the morning and 2-3 for the rest. I avoided alcohol, caffeine, dairy and anything known to decrease supply (like sage) the entire time. There were days that I felt like a warrior for managing to meet her needs on my own. There were days I felt like a failure bc I spent so much time on the pump when I really just wanted to be with my baby. I really don't know if I'd do it all over again if given the chance, but I'm also proud of myself for making it work. My point is, you're doing a great job. Keep trying if its really important to you that your baby has your milk. Give yourself permission to stop if you decide that it's no longer worth it. You love your baby. That's what's important. Your baby will thrive and grow regardless of whether you're feeding BM or formula. Good luck!
With DD we had a lot of difficultly latching, feeding, pumping, producing, everything. I was pumping for 10-15 minutes each side after 4-5 feedings every 24 hours with a hospital grade pump (the LC wanted me doing it at least 8 times with every feeding but that would have been unbearable. As it was it was awful.). It would take 5 days of that to get 2 oz. So I guess 2/25 of an ounce total each session? I hated it.
Have you tried a nipple shield? the cookies? the tea? fenugreek? massaging your breast while you pump to express more? taking in lots of water and calories? Screaming bloody murder at the pump? Okay, only the shield actually helped us but I tried all the rest. (the questions are tongue in cheek as I'm sure someone else has asked them).
What I didn't try, but should have, was formula. The whole thing is a mind fuck.
((hugs))
(ETA: It left me so gun shy that I didn't even open this post until it was 8 pages long because I fucking hate pumping).
I get, like, half an ounce TOTAL from both boobs per session.
You are a fucking rock star at pumping in my book. (For sticking with it at that crazy schedule and half an ounce isn't shabby, just incredibly discouraging).
With this kid I think of myself as swimming in milk (because it has been enough, unlike last time). I still only get about 1-1.5 oz total from both sides, at a really good pumping session, and if I'm completely engorged at the time. With my hospital grade pump.
I had issues pumping at first as well, but then I switched to a smaller flange for my pump and it helped me get a lot more milk. Maybe that's something you could try? I didn't start pumping until C was almost a month old and I only got about an ounce total every pump for the first week or so until I switched sizes. I haven't seen it mentioned in here before. Also, my friend was using an ameda pump and hardly getting anything so I let her try my medela and she was able to get more milk out of the same amount of time.
It sucks when you have something in your head that you want to do and other factors stop you from doing that. I fought my way to nursing C until she was 9 months, and then EPing until she was 10 months until I finally gave in. I don't even want to think about all the tears I shed over those 10 months.
Pumping sucks, its ok to stop. Its ok to keep fighting. You have to take care of yourself (physically and mentally)!
I haven't read the responses and I am not sure if you will see this but, I didn't produce a lot of milk with my first, they convinced me I needed to supplement because he was a preemie and had a hard time latching, I only nursed him for 7 months and I could barely get anything when I pumped (which I did religiously for 8 months).
My daughter was different, she had a great latch but it HURT for the first few weeks, I wanted to give up and didn't think I could do it, I struggled with just giving up for the first 2 months but thankfully I had friends that motivated me to keep going, I ended up nursing her for 18 months and I am so glad I stuck it out. However, pumping just didn't work out for me, she was getting enough but I just couldn't pump, my daughter was way more efficent than pump and my body just didn't respond to the pump like it did to my daughter.
I gave up pumping after 8 months, I still nursed her in the am and pm but she got formula at daycare.
How long are you pumping for? I would pump for 30 to 45 minutes when I could (maybe threes times a day). I would letdown more than once. Also I tried oatmeal and the tea and didn't notice much of an output change. Dark beer really helped though.
Every three hours for 15 minutes, per lactation consultants' (yes, plural) advice.
We had latch issues too. DD1 just didn't want my boob. Ever.
I also pumped every 3 hours- for 20 minutes. Every. three.hours. for months. Even when she was sleeping through the night, I was still getting up to pump. I made it 6 months and then said I was done.
looking back, I wish I would have quit a lot sooner. For 6 months my entire existence was focused on minutes/hours and oz. I'm sad at how attached I was to the pump, but that's me.
She's amazing. So beautiful miso. When DS came back from the NICU @ 3 days after getting a bottle there every 3 hours, I just gave up on the boob. I'm hypo plastic ( are you? I mean I know it's SUPER creepy to ask about your boob shape but....) & I have FLAT fucking nips & I just gave the fuck up as I got not one drop out of either boob.
DS was FF. At 15 months he read a stop sign. He's 2 and he knows & spells his colors. He's a Twy Sentwa kid. I promise formula is great & misotiny will thrive if that's what YOU WANT to do.
Happy Mom = Happy Baby
I have no idea what my boob shape is, but maybe that is my problem. They look pretty flat. LOL.
My brother and I were both formula-fed.
I think we're pretty kick-ass.
Am I remembering correctly that you said before that your mom didn't produce milk and was unable to nurse? If so, it might just be a genetic issue for you. Not that that makes it any easier.
I'm sorry this has been so hard for you. But that adorable baby really won't care how she's fed.
We're trained to think that this is natural and should come so easily, and sometimes it just doesn't, and then you feel like shit because of the societal pressure and expectations.
I was exclusively pumping, I never got more than 1/2 oz to 1 oz per session. That was about every 2 hours for about 10-15 min. I also never woke up in the middle of the night to pump, I just wasn't dedicated enough. I gave up at the 7 week mark and I was so happy when I didn't have to pump anymore.
With my second, I had HELLP syndrome (high BP, low platelettes, kidney and liver failure) so I had the magnesium and many other drugs. Also, my daughter was in the NICU for 3 weeks (she was born at 32 weeks). So there was no latching happening at all since my boob was literally bigger than her entire body and my nipple was bigger than her head. I was pumping not even 1 ML per session the first week (I only even got to hold her at day 3) and maybe 1.5 ML the second week-3rd week and I was freaking the FUCK out because I had no issues at all with my first.
At about 4 weeks I suddenly began getting a lot from the pump but by that time she was mostly latching with a shield. She had formula for a long time (4months?) for many reasons and eventually she learned to latch without shield at like 3 months. She ended up nursing for 18 months.
I have no advice, just telling my experience with my preemie, because it sounds like I was having similar output when she was 2 weeks old. ETA: Shit. Milliliters. Not ounces. ML. I pumped into those NICU provided bottles.
I had a very sililar experience.
DS was born at 34W1D due to HELLP. He was in the NICU for 3 weeks so I'd BF at his cribside and pump when we were apart. That isht HURT. Once he was home, I got about 5oz combined in one session and I was like "whooooooooo!" but it hurrrrrt to pump. I hated it. DS had also been on a formula/BF mix the hospital combined - I'd bring in whatever I'd pumped and they would put it in his feeding tube. He had a cannula until he ripped it out at 2 weeks old. In the beginning, yeah, I wasn't making much at all for him, IMO because we were apart and I hated the pump.
I quit at 5 weeks. NOW, I can look back and say "I should have just BF him and dropped the pump, and FF fed if needed". I know for kid #2, should he/she actually occur, that I shouldn't be so "ZOMG MUST PUMP" once we establish supply. And hopfully that pg won't be so awful + scary in the end.
We're trained to think that this is natural and should come so easily, and sometimes it just doesn't, and then you feel like shit because of the societal pressure and expectations.
This is so true. But it is just like everything else about pregnancy, labor and new parenthood. preclampsia, dying in labor, failing to produce enough milk etc. are all equally natural. Beyond the hype is reality. As you know, it isn't as pretty as the hippie stories make it sound.
I was able to pump about .5 - 1 oz from both boobs naturally. When I took the fenugreek and the lactation cookies and all that jazz I got up to 1.5-2 oz. I literally remember doing a football cheer and a victory dance the 2 oz time that I pumped. I scared the dog.
I also have a huge baby (9 lbs 2 oz at birth) so I was supplementing from about day 3-4 once I figured it out with the LCs. My boobs are shaped in a way that indicates I have low breast tissue according to the LC. I quit stressing and gave him whatever I could until I dried up at about 3 months. He is just fine.
It did make me sad because I was the only mom at daycare using formula so they all tried to give me their coupons. They meant well but it stung. They were bringing in huuuuuge bottles for their kids and I'm like "how in the everloving fuck is that possible?"
((Hugs))
Bonus: my boobs were AA before pregnancy and now I can barely fit through doorways with my giant Cs. Actually they really don't look that big but I still pretend I can't fit through at home with DH. I kind of wonder if I have another baby I will be able to make more milk.
The first night after having him in the hospital, it hurt so badly that I could barely hold him while he "latched" (chewed). They gave me a nipple shield and set up an LC consultation, who came in briefly and said I was doing fine. The pain was toe-curling and awful and I had just had a long vacuum-assisted induction.
I kept trying, but he lost too much weight and was still slightly jaundiced at his first appointment. When the pedi suggested I supplement with formula I felt relief. He sucked it down, but really hated to latch after that. So I pumped for 20 minutes every 2 hours around the clock, day and night. I would produce MAYBE 1-2 ozs in a 24 hr period total in that time.
That was unsustainable, so he kept getting formula mixed with what little breastmilk I had. When I stopped doing it every 2 hours, my supply dropped dramatically (from an ounce or so to droplets - I barely covered the bottom of a medela bottle after a session from both sides combined). I never did feel engorgement or letdown.
I eventually made the decision to stop pumping since the majority of his milk was from formula anyway. I felt bad at first, but that went away when the stress of pumping was lifted and I saw he was thriving. I still have not decided if I will try again with a second.
I'm a lurker, but had major issues with my first. For whatever reason she wouldn't latch well enough to remove enough milk from the breast, she was losing too much weight, wasn't peeling or pooping, and was so sleepy I couldn't keep her awake long enough to let down. I saw a lot of lactation consultants and tried herbs and domperidone and nurse, bottle feed, pump schedules.
Ultimately I was never able to produce enough for her. I finally had to give myself permission when she was 6 weeks old to give her whatever BM I could (it was really important to me that she got some so I wasn't willing to give it up completely) and do formula for the rest. I gave her whatever I could pump every day and stopped worrying about how much it was. At the beginning I could only get drops, but I started responding to the pump better at some point and was able to get an ounce or two at a time.
And she was fine and I was fine. I wish I would have given myself permission to stop worrying about it a lot sooner.
I think the chances of getting a full supply after 2 weeks are pretty slim. You will just need to decide if you want to combo feed or do all formula at this point. Giving yourself permission to stop worrying about it will be the first step. Good luck!