Moo (Literally): Breast-pumping Frustration

[lilac05]

I had lots of problems nursing with my first. He had a terrible latch & my inverted nipples and engorgement made it almost impossible for him to latch. Oversupply sounds nice, but it was very painful and made it difficult for the baby to eat. They didn't want me to pump bc pumping increases supply & that was my original problem. End result was still a really hungry, very angry baby & a very sad, angry, and depressed mom.

How did I cope? I cried. A lot. I called the nursing hotline enough that Gail & I were on a first name basis. I apologized, through tears, to my baby that I couldn't figure out how to do something so "natural." Incried some more.

At about 3 weeks, things started to get better. Eventually, it became effortless. I could feed him while doing things around the house. But those first few weeks were awful.

I'm so sorry you're having so much trouble. It sounds like you're doing everything right.

I remember seeing something about the average size of a newborn's stomach. I think it's the size of a walnut. (Remember to calculate misotiny's age by her due date here.). So, you're probably not nearly as far off in your production as it feels! Just because she may drink 2 oz of formula, it doesn't mean that she needs 2 oz of breastmilk. She likely needs less breastmilk bc it's so packed with good stuff. Also, bottle fed babies tend to overeat bc they're sucking for comfort, not more milk. So, she may drink 2 oz, but her body may not even be using the other ounce.

If you're not getting a letdown before your pump before it automatically switches to slow pumping, you should be able to press a button for it to resume quick pumping to get a letdown.

[ellenbrody]

Lurker, but I can completely relate so I thought I'd share my story.

Short version: my son couldn't latch, I pumped (hospital grade) for a month, I had a meltdown, I switched to formula. He is now a thriving almost 8 year-old.

Long version: I had a rough labor followed by a forceps delivery. I attempted to breastfeed, but basically they just left me in the recovery room with him and no one helped me. I thought he was latching, he was on my boob, but what did I know. They brought him to me at night and the next day and every time I was by myself. A nurse finally checked on me and discovered he wasn't latching. She must have called for the LC 10 times to no avail. She finally breezes in hours later, takes one look at my son and declares he's probably tongue-tied and I had been starving him (true story) and to feed him formula as her shift was over and she didn't have time to help me. He gets formula. The next morning she walks in as I am being released and tells me to rent a pump from the hospital on my way out and maybe I could feed him that way.

I go home and pump. It is now almost 48 since I gave birth and this is the first time something is actually sucking on my boob. I get a few drops. I pump again 2 hours later. Repeat for the next 4 weeks. I never pumped more than maybe 2 ounces in a day. I just did not make milk. I never had letdown. I never had sore boobs. I never felt like I HAD to pump. I get it. It's natural. You make a baby - your body makes milk. Except sometimes it doesn't.

My breaking point came when my one-month-old spit up the precious 1 ounce of breast milk it took me all day to pump. All of it, and I lost it. It was just too much and I realized I simply couldn't do this to him anymore. No baby should have a crazy mother who has a tantrum over one ounce of spit-up. He got full-time formula from that day forward. Did I feel guilty. Yes, for awhile because I really wanted to do what was best for him. But after awhile I realized what was best for him was me being a sane, loving mom.

You're a good mom however you decide to feed your child.

[Moe]

Feb 10, 2014 18:18:29 GMT -5 thedutchgirl said:

I'm sorry you are having so much trouble.

For the record, I'm one of the smarter people I know, and I was formula fed.

So, you know, feed the baby but don't make yourself even more stressed or make this time miserable in the process.

I can attest to this!



And hugs to you @misoangry.  That's all I can offer.  

[Brie]

I feel like pugz had similar issues and blogged about her experiences with BF/pumping and FF.

Hugs, miso. BFing can be a complete mindfuck. My one regret is that I didn't supplement earlier and drove myself totally crazy for so long.

[eclaires]

If I had it to do all over again, I wouldn't have even tried BF. I would have gone straight to FF and not looked back. It just isn't worth it to me. Once I made the decision to quit with Jackson, I was so much happier. I wasn't miserable anymore. I was still stressed because he had some reflux issues, but it was just normal first time mom stress, not "I HATE MY LIFE WHAT HAVE I DONE I AM A FAILURE" stress. So my advice to you? Quit, and don't look back. I'll also throw in some advice from my MIL (who FF and has 3 kids who are very intelligent and successful) that she gave me when we went and got formula. She said, "don't ever let anyone make you feel guilty for feeding your baby, including yourself." Your daughter will have all kinds of things that set her up for a successful, happy, healthy life - breastfeeding won't make or break that.

And at the risk of being flamed to death, 7.5 years out from my first baby, I just don't think it matters. I don't think it's better. It's one decision in a long line of decisions, and based on what I know of you, your baby doesn't need an extra leg up on the whole intellect thing anyhow (which is probably the only thing that could get me to BF - if it was guaranteed to give my kid a certain IQ - I'm a wannabe tiger mom). I have two kids that are happy, healthy, intelligent and they never got a drop of breastmilk thanks to me and my defective boobs. I'm perfectly okay with that because they've gotten a lot more from me that I think matters more than how they were fed. And full disclosure, the only reason I even tried with my daughter was because I figured it would be cheaper and I could spend the formula money on shoes if I was breastfeeding. Once it was clear (pretty much right away, no colostrum again) that BF was going to be the same, I stopped, we got the formula and that was the end of that.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[noodleskooze]

@misoangry YGPM

For some people in here--She's struggling to get drops people. Yes, she's tired and frustrated. She doesn't want to hear how you had BFing difficulties in the beginning aka it was a struggle to get four ounces! SOME people struggle to get that in a whole day!
 /end rant

[ohiowan]

I had a terrible time with nursing. I produced less than 5 ml each time in the beginning. When I hit the 5ml mark, I was excited. I tried everything from fenugreek to the supplemental nursing system, and it was a complete mind-fuck. I switched exclusively to formula around 8 weeks and felt ridiculously guilty about not being able to nurse O. When the hormones settled, I wasn't as neurotic and found peace with it all.

Do what you need to do to make yourself happy first.

[cville]

Feb 10, 2014 19:58:33 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

OMG Miso she is so adorable. Also, I know you love ML and I am not trying to steal you away but MMM can be very helpful if you have questions.

Back off!!!  She's made the switch and I'm willing to fight dirty to keep her!!!!!!

[stephm0188]

My kid didn't latch. It was awful. I EP'd for 6 months. The first few weeks were really rough and I barely pumped even an ounce.. After a few weeks, I'd get 3-5oz, if I was taking fenugreek and eating oatmeal and pumping every 2-3 hours on the dot around the clock.

It wasn't easy though. I pumped a lot and barely made enough. Even when he STTN, I still woke up to pump because that's when I produced the most milk, and I needed every drop to keep up with him. I still had to supplement with formula.

In retrospect, I wish I had just FF instead of struggling so much for so long. We all would have been happier.

[ginap]

Feb 10, 2014 19:56:15 GMT -5 @natariru said:

My breaking point was when I was adding my latest droplets into a container and KNOCKED IT ALL OVER. H walked in on something similar to this but much more ragey & ugly crying:

And then I switched to formula.

Do whatever is best for YOU.  (hug) (hug2)

God there is nothing worse than this.  I almost lost my mind once when they told me they had an accident at daycare and lost a whole bag of milk.  I was like DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG I HAD TO BE HOOKED TO A FUCKING MACHINE TO GET THAT BAG OF MILK AND YOU BITCHES ARE ALL BREEZY ABOUT IT!?!?!!?  
I'm so sorry you are struggling @misoangry.  I just want to give you a big hug.  

[cilantro]

If no one has recommended the Fearless Formula Feeder's website, it's a good read.

Good luck to you. I will say I'm shocked your LCs only recommended pumping every 3 hours. That's the advice I received from a pediatrician that almost tanked my supply week 2 and caused my baby to lose weight. It took nursing/pumping every 1-2 hours for the most part. That got better after week 6. Then we could do every 3-4.

[messykitchen]

It's been 15 years, but I tried like hell to breastfeed. My son was a month early due to severe preeclampsia (sound familiar?) and had his cord around his neck, so I didn't see him for over 36 hours. My kid wouldn't latch, and when he did OMG it hurt. When I pumped, it hurt too, and I hardly got anything, not even enough to feed him with. I tried everything and was so frustrated.

SO I quit. I lasted two weeks, and I was so upset all the time that I wasn't enjoying the baby. I had some brief moments of guilt, but I got over it fast. Things were so much better once I went to formula only.

Huge MISO, it really is ok whichever way you go.

[thatgirl2478]

My kid was really lazy with the nursing - she'd fall asleep ALL the time. She was labeled 'Failure to Thrive' because she lost x% more of her body weight than the dr was comfortable with, so we HAD to supplement with formula. After 3 months of pumping and MAYBE getting enough for 1 bottle (the whole day) I said fuck it and switched her to formula. Everyone was happier.

[Deleted]

Feb 10, 2014 19:43:14 GMT -5 ellenbrody said:

Lurker, but I can completely relate so I thought I'd share my story.

Short version: my son couldn't latch, I pumped (hospital grade) for a month, I had a meltdown, I switched to formula. He is now a thriving almost 8 year-old.

Long version: I had a rough labor followed by a forceps delivery. I attempted to breastfeed, but basically they just left me in the recovery room with him and no one helped me. I thought he was latching, he was on my boob, but what did I know. They brought him to me at night and the next day and every time I was by myself. A nurse finally checked on me and discovered he wasn't latching. She must have called for the LC 10 times to no avail. She finally breezes in hours later, takes one look at my son and declares he's probably tongue-tied and I had been starving him (true story) and to feed him formula as her shift was over and she didn't have time to help me. He gets formula. The next morning she walks in as I am being released and tells me to rent a pump from the hospital on my way out and maybe I could feed him that way.

I go home and pump. It is now almost 48 since I gave birth and this is the first time something is actually sucking on my boob. I get a few drops. I pump again 2 hours later. Repeat for the next 4 weeks. I never pumped more than maybe 2 ounces in a day. I just did not make milk. I never had letdown. I never had sore boobs. I never felt like I HAD to pump. I get it. It's natural. You make a baby - you're body makes milk. Except sometimes it doesn't.

My breaking point came when my one-month-old spit up the precious 1 ounce of breast milk it took me all day to pump. All of it, and I lost it. It was just too much and I realized I simply couldn't do this to him anymore. No baby should have a crazy mother who has a tantrum over one ounce of spit-up. He got full-time formula from that day forward. Did I feel guilty. Yes, for awhile because I really wanted to do what was best for him. But after awhile I realized what was best for him was me being a sane, loving mom.

You're a good mom however you decide to feed your child.

I actually got teary when I spilled 1.5 ounces of milk the other day (i.e., LITERALLY CRYING OVER SPILLED MILK).  It was three sessions' worth of pumping.

Thanks for commiserating and for your support.

[frlcb]

I couldn't bf either of mine. They wouldn't latch, I would pump for an hour and get drops of milk. Drops. I used a hospital grade pump, didn't matter. At the end of the day all the fenugreek, pumping, lactation cookies, whatever wouldn't have helped me, it just wasn't in the cards for me. And so we formula fed, and it was awesome. Anyone could feed them. I could feed them anywhere without worrying about people freaking out. I did go through a total breakdown of being a mom failure but then realized that I was doing the best thing possible - I was feeding my kids. At the end of the day the vehicle through which the food came mattered less to me than my sanity and keeping my babies fed.

Good luck!

[lauren170]

Just wanted to say I'm also having such a hard time. I'm going back to the lactation consultant tomorrow. My issue is by the time I breast feed (she takes like 40 min) then supplement with a bottle, then pump, then change diaper, it's time to start all over. The doctor to me to choose between breast feeding and pumping - and logically I should choose pumping but emotionally I can't.

[FloFTW]

First. She's adorable.

With my second, I had HELLP syndrome (high BP, low platelettes, kidney and liver failure) so I had the magnesium and many other drugs. Also, my daughter was in the NICU for 3 weeks (she was born at 32 weeks). So there was no latching happening at all since my boob was literally bigger than her entire body and my nipple was bigger than her head. I was pumping not even 1 ML per session the first week (I only even got to hold her at day 3) and maybe 1.5 ML the second week-3rd week and I was freaking the FUCK out because I had no issues at all with my first.

At about 4 weeks I suddenly began getting a lot from the pump but by that time she was mostly latching with a shield. She had formula for a long time (4months?) for many reasons and eventually she learned to latch without shield at like 3 months. She ended up nursing for 18 months.

I have no advice, just telling my experience with my preemie, because it sounds like I was having similar output when she was 2 weeks old.
ETA: Shit. Milliliters. Not ounces. ML. I pumped into those NICU provided bottles.

[Deleted]

I exclusively breastfed my older 2 DD's. I tried with DD3 for 4 weeks. She was 17 days early, she was born under very poor circumstances (I was sick, she had tachycardia and she was almost born via emergency c-section), a very lazy eater, was very sleepy all the time, had a horrible latch- every strike you can imagine we had it. I saw 4 different Lactation consultants, 2 pediatricians and a midwife who does LaLeche league over the 4 week period. I used nipple shields, ate dozens of lactation cookies, drank gallons of mothers milk tea, took fenugreek, took blessed thistle, took domperidone, bought 3 different pumps (including hospital grade), drank dark beer, ate oatmeal like it was my job. I was only pumping .5 to .75 oz off both sides at each pumping session. So- 6oz a day if I was lucky.

Here was my day: I would pump every 2 hours, round the clock. She would try to BF for 15-20 minutes, I would then feed her a bottle (sometimes BM, sometimes formula) for 15-20 minutes and I would then pump for 30 minutes. I'd get an almost hour break and do it all over again. I was frustrated, she was frustrated. I was sleep deprived beyond belief. It was the worst experience ever. I still hate (10 months later) thinking back to that first month.

As soon as I quit, she started gaining weight. By 6 months old she was 22lbs. She was happier, I was happier. It was the best decision I made. I'm sorry you are going through this- it sucks, big time.

[idoinjuly]

I haven't read all the replies so I don't know if this has been mentioned. Lactation cookies were life changing for me. Maybe try making those?

[Deleted]

Feb 10, 2014 19:38:33 GMT -5 ninjabridemom said:

Feb 10, 2014 19:37:04 GMT -5 @damnation said:

I'm late to the game here but I hope this still counts. I had latching problems too. My supply was non existent the first few days. I attempted to collect colostrum in this weird shaped dropper thing. That was a joke. He never did latch and by day 6 or so, I was only pumping 2 oz. I gave up and went to formula by week 2. It was all just too stressful for both of us.

Omg in the hospital they gave me this weird thing to put in the hospital pump to gather droplets. That was when I sort of started realizing I might never ebf.

Literal droplets. I think 1ml was a big day.

Dear god yes. And then I was collecting the droplets from the pump parts. Fuck that noise kid, here's some yummy formula.

[arch01]

My most epic PP meltdown came when DS was 2 weeks old; I was sobbing and DH couldn't understand why. I finally got out the words, "My body is failing to do what a woman's body should do. I can't feed my own child."

I was in a vicious cycle of BFing, pumping (if DH was at work-bottle feeding while pumping), break for 30 minutes, rinse/repeat. My early days were about what you're getting-not even enough to really be a full feeding when it was all said and done. I power pumped, I took supplements, I took other meds... I finally said enough at 10 months. I never produced enough to give DS an entire day's worth of BM; and I tried every trick in the book. It really, really makes me think negatively on the early months of DS' life-on top of the colic.

The person who told me to say that I was "done" instead of I "quit" made me think about things a lot more positively. I gave it my best shot, I didn't meet my goal, but damn it... I tried. And thank goodness for formula-because my kid was literally starving without it. The second night in the hospital was my first CGTMFO moment-I pressed the nurse button and made them take him to the nursery because he would.not.stop.screaming. They told me later that he downed 2oz of formula and was happy as a clam.

Misotiny will thrive, no matter what she's fed!

[curtains]

Feb 10, 2014 20:19:16 GMT -5 @misoangry said:

Feb 10, 2014 19:43:14 GMT -5 ellenbrody said:

I actually got teary when I spilled 1.5 ounces of milk the other day (i.e., LITERALLY CRYING OVER SPILLED MILK).  It was three sessions' worth of pumping.

Thanks for commiserating and for your support.

This brought back memories of trying to bf.  Please don't feel a second of guilt if you can't.  I tried so hard and finally gave up, my kid is fine and healthy and formula fed.

TinyMiso will be wonderful no matter how she is nourished, just look at all the cultural fab food you will introduce her to as she gets older. This is just the beginning.

Good luck either way.  Here is my poor kid, she survived on formula. 

[lostrn]

I'm just a lurker, and my kid is 5 now so my memory is fuzzy. But he was sleepy, smallish, and a crappy nurser at first. I started pumping from day 2 because he really wasn't latching and of course I barely got anything. At 2 weeks we had to start supplementing because he had lost too much weight. I would breastfeed and pump and formula feed, I kept that up through my 7 week maternity leave. Oatmeal and the occasional beer upped my production. I saw you said she is only 2 weeks old...that is early to have great output and response to a pump. I agree with other posters that say pump every 2 hours when possible. Try holding her skin to skin when you can. Formula is a great when you don't have enough BM. I think by 10 weeks post partum I was pumping 3-4 ounces total every 4 hours at work. But it took 10 weeks to get there.

[arch01]

Feb 10, 2014 19:00:10 GMT -5 farmvillelover said:

I'm halfway through page 3 and I just have to stop reading bc I'm crying over this. Crying at the flashbacks and crying for you that you're having these issues. It really does hurt and it's frustrating and I hate that I have to see a friend go through it. Will read/write more later when I get a chance.

Hugs, lady. 

I very vividly remember those conversations about the lengths we went through to BF. 

I still have my list of pumping output and DS' intake on my phone. I can't bring myself to delete it.

[IrishBelle]

I'm sorry you're struggling. I definitely get it. I pumped for 3 months with a hospital grade pump with my first DD. I was lucky to get half and ounce per session. Most times it was a lot less than that. During those 3 months, I had to supplement with formula. I tried everything to boost my supply but nothing worked. I wish you the best!

[rugbywife]

I will preface this by saying two things: a) I am a hard core believer in breastfeeding and I desperately want to do it and b) I am presently suffering from perinatal anxiety/depression.

My dad is a neonatologist/paediatrician with like 50 years experience (almost, he is 75)…he is also a hard core believer in breastfeeding.

When I was on the phone with him last week, crying as I tried to explain the emotions I am going through, and how concerned I was with being a good mom and that I was worried about having horrible PPD this was our conversations:

Dad: What did I eat for the first 4 months of my life Rugbywife?
Me: Pea Soup.
Dad: Not just pea soup, military pea soup. No matter what you feed your child, it will be better fed than I was. And I turned out fine. You will be able to meet your baby's need, my love, you will be awesome.

My dad was born on the 1st day of WW2 in Warsaw, Poland. I don't know if my baba couldn't produce milk or if he was exaggerating that it was the first 4 months of life, but I can guarantee there was no formula to be had, but the reality is that he is right, our babies with thrive no matter what we give them. I desperately want to breast feed, but at some point I may need to concede that it isn't work and I can't be willing to lose it over that.

I hope it gets easier for you Miso. 

[Deleted]

I love your dad.

[georgeharrison]

I didn't pump much.  I think 2 oz was a huge success, but usually it was much less.  I didn't make enough milk, though, and supplemented right away and switched exclusively to formula at 1 month.

[rupertpenny]

Feb 10, 2014 21:10:37 GMT -5 rugbywife said:

I will preface this by saying two things: a) I am a hard core believer in breastfeeding and I desperately want to do it and b) I am presently suffering from perinatal anxiety/depression.

My dad is a neonatologist/paediatrician with like 50 years experience (almost, he is 75)…he is also a hard core believer in breastfeeding.

When I was on the phone with him last week, crying as I tried to explain the emotions I am going through, and how concerned I was with being a good mom and that I was worried about having horrible PPD this was our conversations:

Dad: What did I eat for the first 4 months of my life Rugbywife?
Me: Pea Soup.
Dad: Not just pea soup, military pea soup. No matter what you feed your child, it will be better fed than I was. And I turned out fine. You will be able to meet your baby's need, my love, you will be awesome.

My dad was born on the 1st day of WW2 in Warsaw, Poland. I don't know if my baba couldn't produce milk or if he was exaggerating that it was the first 4 months of life, but I can guarantee there was no formula to be had, but the reality is that he is right, our babies with thrive no matter what we give them. I desperately want to breast feed, but at some point I may need to concede that it isn't work and I can't be willing to lose it over that.

I hope it gets easier for you Miso. 

I was depressed while pregnant too and it sucks. I just wanted to let you know that I had no PPD and actually feel much better since giving birth.

Also, I bet your dad has some crazy stories. What a birthday.

[Gato]

The crazy thing is, humankind has made huge advances that keep at-risk moms and babies alive. We are so fortunate to have the medical interventions we have. Yet somehow we're supposed to deny ourselves the help and relief and care that formula can be. Because breastfeeding is "best" and "natural" blah blah blah. It seems like a double standard.