Update on page 14 - Another Malaysia Airlines 777 crashed???

[sugarglider]

Jul 18, 2014 5:13:24 GMT -5 ttt said:

Jul 17, 2014 23:32:56 GMT -5 summer said:

BBC had reported that planes from the States weren't flying over there before this tragedy because the FAA told them not to. This wasn't a warning given internationally and lots of international carriers from other countries were frequently flying over before this tragedy

I posted an article about this up thread - the main reason the FAA didn't let American planes fly there is because there is uncertainty over whose air traffic control is controlling that space and how good a job they're doing of that. Which is obviously important but I don't think anybody really thought someone would actually shoot down a passenger jet. Because why TF would you do that???

Is that type of directive from the FAA known by others in the industry? Like, might AirFrance (for example) hear about it and consider following suit simply bc they agree with the FAA's reasons?

[notsocreepylurker]

Are all of our friends here accounted for? I know several travel for work (I am thinking mx mostly). I just....I don't know how to FEEL about this besides sadness and disbelief.

[Cicero]

Jul 18, 2014 9:02:41 GMT -5 notsocreepylurker said:

Are all of our friends here accounted for? I know several travel for work (I am thinking mx mostly). I just....I don't know how to FEEL about this besides sadness and disbelief.

They haven't yet released the passenger list. Unless something has changed recently though, MX doesn't really travel through KL that much. I know she didn't when I was living there at least.

[cinnamoncox]

Jul 18, 2014 5:13:24 GMT -5 ttt said:

Jul 17, 2014 23:32:56 GMT -5 summer said:

BBC had reported that planes from the States weren't flying over there before this tragedy because the FAA told them not to. This wasn't a warning given internationally and lots of international carriers from other countries were frequently flying over before this tragedy

I posted an article about this up thread - the main reason the FAA didn't let American planes fly there is because there is uncertainty over whose air traffic control is controlling that space and how good a job they're doing of that. Which is obviously important but I don't think anybody really thought someone would actually shoot down a passenger jet. Because why TF would you do that???

I think due to misidentification of commercial vs non commercial.
It evidently can happen accidentally (?).
I think we did it by accident so we are more cognizant of the fact it can be done by accident.

[cinnamoncox]

Jul 18, 2014 9:00:56 GMT -5 sugarglider said:

Jul 18, 2014 5:13:24 GMT -5 ttt said:

I posted an article about this up thread - the main reason the FAA didn't let American planes fly there is because there is uncertainty over whose air traffic control is controlling that space and how good a job they're doing of that. Which is obviously important but I don't think anybody really thought someone would actually shoot down a passenger jet. Because why TF would you do that???

Is that type of directive from the FAA known by others in the industry? Like, might AirFrance (for example) hear about it and consider following suit simply bc they agree with the FAA's reasons?

I don't think the FAA can tell others not to fly there, but I can't imagine it's a secret, kwim? Yesterday, France followed suit and isn't flying over until the investigation is complete.

So I don't know if we are just more cautious or what.

[IIOY]

The NYT is reporting that the preliminary US assessment is that pro-Russian separatists fired the missile. Meanwhile NPR is reporting that Putin is calling on the separatists and Ukraine to hold peace talks. This asshole thinks he is going to walk out of this shitstorm a peacemaker. Unbelievable.

[ttt]

Jul 18, 2014 9:51:24 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Did anyone post the intercepted transcripts published in USA Today this morning?

www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/18/ukraine-malaysia-airline-security-service-intercepted-tapes-russian-rebels/12826269/

Russian rebels and the Russian military have denied responsibility for bringing down MH17, pointing the finger instead at the Ukrainian government.

In the first tape, the SBU says Igor Bezler, a Russian military intelligence officer and leading commander of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, is reporting to Col. Vasily Geranin, of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces.

The translated version of the tapes was published by the English-language Kiev Post. Another translated version with some alternate wording was published by the Ukrainian news agency Interfax-Ukraine.

Igor Bezler: We have just shot down a plane. Group Minera. It fell down beyond Yenakievo (Donetsk Oblast).

Geranin: Pilots. Where are the pilots?

IB: Gone to search for and photograph the plane. It's smoking.

VG: How many minutes ago?

IB: About 30 minutes ago.

The SBU says the next part of the conversation takes place about 40 minutes later and involves a separatist militant nicknamed "Major" who is reporting to another militant nicknamed "Greek" on the downed plane.

"Major": These are Chernukhin folks who shot down the plane. From the Chernukhin checkpoint. Those Cossacks who are based in Chernukhino.

"Greek": Yes, Major.

"Major": The plane fell apart in the air. In the area of Petropavlovskaya mine. The first "200" (code word for dead person). We have found the first "200." A civilian.

"Greek": Well, what do you have there?

"Major": In short, it was 100 per cent a passenger (civilian) aircraft.

"Greek": Are many people there?

"Major": Holy sh__t! The debris fell right into the yards (of homes).

"Greek": What kind of aircraft?

"Major": I haven't ascertained this. I haven't been to the main site. I am only surveying the scene where the first bodies fell. There are the remains of internal brackets, seats and bodies.

"Greek": Is there anything left of the weapon?

"Major": Absolutely nothing. Civilian items, medicinal stuff, towels, toilet paper.

"Greek": Are there documents?

"Major": Yes, of one Indonesian student. From a university in Thompson.

In the third part of the intercepted conversation, Russian-backed Cossack commander Nikolay Kozitsin is speaking to an unidentified separatist.

Militant: Regarding the plane shot down in the area of Snizhne-Torez. It's a civilian one. Fell down near Grabove. There are lots of corpses of women and children. The Cossacks are out there looking at all this.

They say on TV it's AN-26 transport plane, but they say it's written Malaysia Airlines on the plane. What was it doing on Ukraine's territory?

Kozitsin: That means they were carrying spies. They shouldn't be (expletive) flying. There is a war going on.

 holy shit

[iammalcolmx]

Jul 18, 2014 9:51:24 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Kozitsin: That means they were carrying spies. They shouldn't be (expletive) flying. There is a war going on.

This Motherfucker AIN'T SHIT!!!

[Vespasia]

Jul 18, 2014 9:38:09 GMT -5 IIOY said:

The NYT is reporting that the preliminary US assessment is that pro-Russian separatists fired the missile. Meanwhile NPR is reporting that Putin is calling on the separatists and Ukraine to hold peace talks. This asshole thinks he is going to walk out of this shitstorm a peacemaker. Unbelievable.    

Putin being Putin, I could almost believe that this whole thing was orchestrated so he could come out looking like a good guy in the eyes of the world.

[NewOrleans]

Jul 18, 2014 9:51:24 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Did anyone post the intercepted transcripts published in USA Today this morning?

www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/18/ukraine-malaysia-airline-security-service-intercepted-tapes-russian-rebels/12826269/

Russian rebels and the Russian military have denied responsibility for bringing down MH17, pointing the finger instead at the Ukrainian government.

In the first tape, the SBU says Igor Bezler, a Russian military intelligence officer and leading commander of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, is reporting to Col. Vasily Geranin, of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces.

The translated version of the tapes was published by the English-language Kiev Post. Another translated version with some alternate wording was published by the Ukrainian news agency Interfax-Ukraine.

Igor Bezler: We have just shot down a plane. Group Minera. It fell down beyond Yenakievo (Donetsk Oblast).

Geranin: Pilots. Where are the pilots?

IB: Gone to search for and photograph the plane. It's smoking.

VG: How many minutes ago?

IB: About 30 minutes ago.

The SBU says the next part of the conversation takes place about 40 minutes later and involves a separatist militant nicknamed "Major" who is reporting to another militant nicknamed "Greek" on the downed plane.

"Major": These are Chernukhin folks who shot down the plane. From the Chernukhin checkpoint. Those Cossacks who are based in Chernukhino.

"Greek": Yes, Major.

"Major": The plane fell apart in the air. In the area of Petropavlovskaya mine. The first "200" (code word for dead person). We have found the first "200." A civilian.

"Greek": Well, what do you have there?

"Major": In short, it was 100 per cent a passenger (civilian) aircraft.

"Greek": Are many people there?

"Major": Holy sh__t! The debris fell right into the yards (of homes).

"Greek": What kind of aircraft?

"Major": I haven't ascertained this. I haven't been to the main site. I am only surveying the scene where the first bodies fell. There are the remains of internal brackets, seats and bodies.

"Greek": Is there anything left of the weapon?

"Major": Absolutely nothing. Civilian items, medicinal stuff, towels, toilet paper.

"Greek": Are there documents?

"Major": Yes, of one Indonesian student. From a university in Thompson.

In the third part of the intercepted conversation, Russian-backed Cossack commander Nikolay Kozitsin is speaking to an unidentified separatist.

Militant: Regarding the plane shot down in the area of Snizhne-Torez. It's a civilian one. Fell down near Grabove. There are lots of corpses of women and children. The Cossacks are out there looking at all this.

They say on TV it's AN-26 transport plane, but they say it's written Malaysia Airlines on the plane. What was it doing on Ukraine's territory?

Kozitsin: That means they were carrying spies. They shouldn't be (expletive) flying. There is a war going on.

[NewOrleans]

Jul 18, 2014 9:38:09 GMT -5 IIOY said:

The NYT is reporting that the preliminary US assessment is that pro-Russian separatists fired the missile. Meanwhile NPR is reporting that Putin is calling on the separatists and Ukraine to hold peace talks. 

Oh.  Peace talks.  Why didn't they think of that?  Brilliant.

^o)

[josieposy]

Putin just wants peace for all.

And tigers....

[ttt]

I just read somewhere that the death toll was increased from 295 to 298 because there were three infants who hadn't previously been counted

[pixy0stix]

Jul 18, 2014 10:09:03 GMT -5 josieposy said:

Putin just wants peace for all.

And tigers....

And to feel the breeze on his manly chest.

[cinnamoncox]

Jul 18, 2014 9:51:24 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Did anyone post the intercepted transcripts published in USA Today this morning?

www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/18/ukraine-malaysia-airline-security-service-intercepted-tapes-russian-rebels/12826269/

Russian rebels and the Russian military have denied responsibility for bringing down MH17, pointing the finger instead at the Ukrainian government.

In the first tape, the SBU says Igor Bezler, a Russian military intelligence officer and leading commander of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, is reporting to Col. Vasily Geranin, of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces.

The translated version of the tapes was published by the English-language Kiev Post. Another translated version with some alternate wording was published by the Ukrainian news agency Interfax-Ukraine.

Igor Bezler: We have just shot down a plane. Group Minera. It fell down beyond Yenakievo (Donetsk Oblast).

Geranin: Pilots. Where are the pilots?

IB: Gone to search for and photograph the plane. It's smoking.

VG: How many minutes ago?

IB: About 30 minutes ago.

The SBU says the next part of the conversation takes place about 40 minutes later and involves a separatist militant nicknamed "Major" who is reporting to another militant nicknamed "Greek" on the downed plane.

"Major": These are Chernukhin folks who shot down the plane. From the Chernukhin checkpoint. Those Cossacks who are based in Chernukhino.

"Greek": Yes, Major.

"Major": The plane fell apart in the air. In the area of Petropavlovskaya mine. The first "200" (code word for dead person). We have found the first "200." A civilian.

"Greek": Well, what do you have there?

"Major": In short, it was 100 per cent a passenger (civilian) aircraft.

"Greek": Are many people there?

"Major": Holy sh__t! The debris fell right into the yards (of homes).

"Greek": What kind of aircraft?

"Major": I haven't ascertained this. I haven't been to the main site. I am only surveying the scene where the first bodies fell. There are the remains of internal brackets, seats and bodies.

"Greek": Is there anything left of the weapon?

"Major": Absolutely nothing. Civilian items, medicinal stuff, towels, toilet paper.

"Greek": Are there documents?

"Major": Yes, of one Indonesian student. From a university in Thompson.

In the third part of the intercepted conversation, Russian-backed Cossack commander Nikolay Kozitsin is speaking to an unidentified separatist.

Militant: Regarding the plane shot down in the area of Snizhne-Torez. It's a civilian one. Fell down near Grabove. There are lots of corpses of women and children. The Cossacks are out there looking at all this.

They say on TV it's AN-26 transport plane, but they say it's written Malaysia Airlines on the plane. What was it doing on Ukraine's territory?

Kozitsin: That means they were carrying spies. They shouldn't be (expletive) flying. There is a war going on.

yikes!

[teflepi]

Jul 18, 2014 9:12:57 GMT -5 Cicero said:

Jul 18, 2014 9:02:41 GMT -5 notsocreepylurker said:

Are all of our friends here accounted for? I know several travel for work (I am thinking mx mostly). I just....I don't know how to FEEL about this besides sadness and disbelief.

They haven't yet released the passenger list. Unless something has changed recently though, MX doesn't really travel through KL that much. I know she didn't when I was living there at least.

Didn't CNN do this yesterday?

[Cicero]

Jul 18, 2014 10:27:18 GMT -5 teflepi said:

Jul 18, 2014 9:12:57 GMT -5 Cicero said:

They haven't yet released the passenger list. Unless something has changed recently though, MX doesn't really travel through KL that much. I know she didn't when I was living there at least.

Didn't CNN do this yesterday?

The names haven't been officially released as they haven't notified all the relatives. I've seen a general list of nationalities, but not the corresponding names. The names of those known to have been on board have come from friends and family members.

[Velar Fricative]

Welp, it was "nice" knowing you, Ukrainian separatist movement.

[Alyssa]

Every death is sad, but to throw on top that 108 AIDS researchers also went down in that plane, what a loss.

jezebel.com/108-top-aids-researchers-killed-in-malaysia-airlines-cr-1607119208?utm_campaign=socialflow_jezebel_facebook&utm_source=jezebel_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

[cinnamoncox]

One American, but I also read no one used an America passport, so dual citizenship perhaps?

And I read about an Australian woman who lost her brother in the missing Malaysian crash and she just lost her step daughter in this shot down plane. Poor woman

So terribly sad and scary.

[secretlyevil]

Jul 18, 2014 10:37:17 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Welp, it was "nice" knowing you, Ukrainian separatist movement.

yes, any sympathy the world might have had for their cause went down with that plane.

[teflepi]

Jul 18, 2014 10:32:50 GMT -5 Cicero said:

Jul 18, 2014 10:27:18 GMT -5 teflepi said:

Didn't CNN do this yesterday?

The names haven't been officially released as they haven't notified all the relatives. I've seen a general list of nationalities, but not the corresponding names. The names of those known to have been on board have come from friends and family members.

Oh good. Thanks. I thought I saw it on there, but glad I misheard/saw.

[heyjude]

Jul 18, 2014 9:51:24 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Did anyone post the intercepted transcripts published in USA Today this morning?

www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/18/ukraine-malaysia-airline-security-service-intercepted-tapes-russian-rebels/12826269/

Russian rebels and the Russian military have denied responsibility for bringing down MH17, pointing the finger instead at the Ukrainian government.

In the first tape, the SBU says Igor Bezler, a Russian military intelligence officer and leading commander of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, is reporting to Col. Vasily Geranin, of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces.

The translated version of the tapes was published by the English-language Kiev Post. Another translated version with some alternate wording was published by the Ukrainian news agency Interfax-Ukraine.

Igor Bezler: We have just shot down a plane. Group Minera. It fell down beyond Yenakievo (Donetsk Oblast).

Geranin: Pilots. Where are the pilots?

IB: Gone to search for and photograph the plane. It's smoking.

VG: How many minutes ago?

IB: About 30 minutes ago.

The SBU says the next part of the conversation takes place about 40 minutes later and involves a separatist militant nicknamed "Major" who is reporting to another militant nicknamed "Greek" on the downed plane.

"Major": These are Chernukhin folks who shot down the plane. From the Chernukhin checkpoint. Those Cossacks who are based in Chernukhino.

"Greek": Yes, Major.

"Major": The plane fell apart in the air. In the area of Petropavlovskaya mine. The first "200" (code word for dead person). We have found the first "200." A civilian.

"Greek": Well, what do you have there?

"Major": In short, it was 100 per cent a passenger (civilian) aircraft.

"Greek": Are many people there?

"Major": Holy sh__t! The debris fell right into the yards (of homes).

"Greek": What kind of aircraft?

"Major": I haven't ascertained this. I haven't been to the main site. I am only surveying the scene where the first bodies fell. There are the remains of internal brackets, seats and bodies.

"Greek": Is there anything left of the weapon?

"Major": Absolutely nothing. Civilian items, medicinal stuff, towels, toilet paper.

"Greek": Are there documents?

"Major": Yes, of one Indonesian student. From a university in Thompson.

In the third part of the intercepted conversation, Russian-backed Cossack commander Nikolay Kozitsin is speaking to an unidentified separatist.

Militant: Regarding the plane shot down in the area of Snizhne-Torez. It's a civilian one. Fell down near Grabove. There are lots of corpses of women and children. The Cossacks are out there looking at all this.

They say on TV it's AN-26 transport plane, but they say it's written Malaysia Airlines on the plane. What was it doing on Ukraine's territory?

Kozitsin: That means they were carrying spies. They shouldn't be (expletive) flying. There is a war going on.

What does this mean? Russia admits involvement? They thought there were spies on the plane?

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN in terms if international relations with Russia going forward?

[Velar Fricative]

Jul 18, 2014 11:13:50 GMT -5 cinnamoncox said:

One American, but I also read no one used an America passport, so dual citizenship perhaps?

And I read about an Australian woman who lost her brother in the missing Malaysian crash and she just lost her step daughter in this shot down plane. Poor woman

So terribly sad and scary.

Holy shit.

[IIOY]

Samantha Power has now said there is credible evidence this was the work of Russian separatists using a Russian anti-aircraft system.

[teflepi]

Jul 18, 2014 11:33:08 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Jul 18, 2014 11:13:50 GMT -5 cinnamoncox said:

One American, but I also read no one used an America passport, so dual citizenship perhaps?

And I read about an Australian woman who lost her brother in the missing Malaysian crash and she just lost her step daughter in this shot down plane. Poor woman

So terribly sad and scary.

Holy shit.

Jeez, that is awful!

[secretlyevil]

I heard this morning that Russia has been found arming the separatists. So if the separatists did it, which it is looking like it, Russia's at fault. Even if it is indirectly.

[teflepi]

I wonder if now China will have to fold on their stance on Ukraine? If they do, especially with this, it could force Russia's hand. Obv this is down the road, but it making me think,

[secretlyevil]

Jul 18, 2014 11:13:50 GMT -5 cinnamoncox said:

One American, but I also read no one used an America passport, so dual citizenship perhaps?

And I read about an Australian woman who lost her brother in the missing Malaysian crash and she just lost her step daughter in this shot down plane. Poor woman

So terribly sad and scary.

I heard the same thing this morning. That poor woman. I can't even imagine.

[8675309]

Jul 18, 2014 9:51:24 GMT -5 asdfjkl said:

Did anyone post the intercepted transcripts published in USA Today this morning?

www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/18/ukraine-malaysia-airline-security-service-intercepted-tapes-russian-rebels/12826269/

I don't want to keep quoting the whole transcript, but CNN has been showing this recording since last night and they've been repetitively saying that they cannot confirm their sources. IN other words, it could have been completely fabricated by Putin so that he could pass the blame onto Ukraine. Who knows right. Still pretty chilling. Especially the mention of bodies falling and then in the next breath asking why the f**they are flying over the space since there's a war going on. Heartless.