No, I just think people cloaking behavior I view as ultimately oppressive in "good intentions" is ridiculous. Intentions mean very little.
I don't really see how someone offering their form of support to you is "oppressive." If you want them to respect your beliefs, shouldn't you respect theirs?
The question is mostly rhetorical. We can agree to differ.
No, I just think people cloaking behavior I view as ultimately oppressive in "good intentions" is ridiculous. Intentions mean very little.
Can I ask what about prayer, specifically, is oppressive? I am about as left wing non-religious as they come and I don't get this. Religion, like people, comes in all shapes and sizes, and not all religions or interpretations of religions are oppressive. Of course plenty are, but I cannot equate anyone who says a prayer for me with oppressive religion. That is a bit of a stretch.
No, I just think people cloaking behavior I view as ultimately oppressive in "good intentions" is ridiculous. Intentions mean very little.
Can I ask what about prayer, specifically, is oppressive? I am about as left wing non-religious as they come and I don't get this. Religion, like people, comes in all shapes and sizes, and not all religions or interpretations of religions are oppressive. Of course plenty are, but I cannot equate anyone who says a prayer for me with oppressive religion. That is a bit of a stretch.
I don't think prayer is at all oppressive. I mean I'm sure it can be, but the prayer itself isn't my issue. It's the assumption that I'm religious or should care about your religion that feels oppressive.
Post by lexxasaurus on Aug 12, 2014 10:52:00 GMT -5
It doesn't offend me, and Tamb pointed out that saying someone is thinking about you it's basically the same thing. It doesn't do anything for you, but the fact that they want you to know that they care is comforting to me. I do hate when it is pointed out that things are up to God, or God's plan, but other than that I just take it as sending positive energy out, and expressing care for me.
"You. You and your crazy life. You and your geographic anomaly. You and your drunken lesbianic ways and terrible navigational skills." - ProfArt and her holy baby
No, I just think people cloaking behavior I view as ultimately oppressive in "good intentions" is ridiculous. Intentions mean very little.
I don't really see how someone offering their form of support to you is "oppressive." If you want them to respect your beliefs, shouldn't you respect theirs?
The question is mostly rhetorical. We can agree to differ.
I feel like respecting my beliefs would also involve respecting the fact that I don't believe in a god. Trying to get me to care about your god isn't exactly respecting that. This could all certainly be colored by my relatives behavior when I was younger, but at this point in my life, any suggestion that I should be religious or care about religion feels very much weighted to me.
I do respect people who are religious, so long as they don't try to push it on me.
Good intentions are good intentions. Someone letting me know, however they choose to do so, that they're pulling for me is always appreciated, even if they don't phrase it perhaps the way I need it.
Yeah but they're not, that's a bullshit cop out statement. People can have all kinds of good intentions that ultimately oppress people, they just don't notice it's happening from up on their privileged perch.
I think you need to calm down.
It is not a bullshit copout statement. When my husband was in a coma, and my mother was dying, I was not about to get picky about how someone told me "We are pulling so hard, in the best way that we personally know how, that everything turns out ok for you all."
It doesn't imply that my beliefs should be theirs, or that their beliefs are superior to mine, or that my acknowledging their concern for my behalf becomes some sort of tacit acceptance of their belief in whatever higher power they chose. It was the truly kind wishes of those people in my universe and their sincere desire that things work out for us. See kindness for kindness. There is not always an alterior motive just because someone said the "P" word
That being said, anything deeper than "we're praying for you" such as all that "This must be God's plan" bullshit would not have gone over so well. And the chaplain who tried to tell me "well, God gives us the tools we need to face things" got told right quick that God was being a straight up dick and if this was his answer to the "tools I needed" then she could take her god and cram it.
No, not if I'm really in need of support or struggling in some way. Now my grandmother telling her granddaughters that she will pray for our acne/split ends/muffin tops/unibrows and the like? Not really feeling the love with that offer. Lol. She's the worst.
Post by borinquen57 on Aug 12, 2014 11:41:40 GMT -5
Not usually. If someone knows me very well, I kind of expect them to not say that, though. It's a nice sentiment, but I figure they'd think of a way to comfort for me that is more "meaningful" for me.
Post by trixiedicksnatch on Aug 12, 2014 13:24:39 GMT -5
It would have never occurred to me that me praying for someone in a time of need might offend them.
I don't understand how someone can dictate or be put off by how I choose to offer support.
When I say I'm going to pray for some one it generally goes like this: "dear god please give :person: the strength to overcome this challenge in their life, please bring them some sort of comfort and relief in their time of need"
It grates on my last nerve when people do it. If you tell me that you're praying for me, at least on some level you're suggesting that I should give a flying fuck that you're praying about me. It's that assumption that I should care that I find offensive. If you want to pray for me you go right on with your bad self, but once you tell me you're doing it, then you're making the suggestion that I should care about it, which would require some type of caring or believing in your god. Assuming I believe in the same god as you or any god at all is offensive.
Would you feel the same way if they said "I'm keeping you in my thoughts/sending my best wishes/etc?" Because if not then this is hypocritical.
I am not at all following how these are the same. One is just wishing someone well, the other is wishing them well, while shoehorning religion into a conversation that has nothing to do with religion.
In my lifetime I can't remember a single time someone has said they were praying for me when some bad shit was going down, though it's possible it was said and I just had too much going on to notice. When I think about hearing "I'm praying for you" the jumble of moments that come to mind involve me being told in some passive aggressive manner that I am less than someone else because I don't believe in the same god they do. If it was only ever said nicely then it may not be that big of a deal, but in reality it's not always used just as well wishes.
Also, are we pretending that there isn't a whole pile of Christians who constantly tell people they're praying for them that would get supremely butt hurt if someone said "I'm praying to Mohammed for you?"
Would you feel the same way if they said "I'm keeping you in my thoughts/sending my best wishes/etc?" Â Because if not then this is hypocritical.
I am not at all following how these are the same. Â One is just wishing someone well, the other is wishing them well, while shoehorning religion into a conversation that has nothing to do with religion. Â Â Â
In my lifetime I can't remember a single time someone has said they were praying for me when some bad shit was going down, though it's possible it was said and I just had too much going on to notice. Â When I think about hearing "I'm praying for you" the jumble of moments that come to mind involve me being told in some passive aggressive manner that I am less than someone else because I don't believe in the same god they do. Â If it was only ever said nicely then it may not be that big of a deal, but in reality it's not always used just as well wishes. Â
Also, let's not pretend that there isn't a whole pile of Christians who constantly tell people they're praying for them that would get supremely butt hurt if someone said "I'm praying to Mohammed for you." Â Â Â
Hmm ill take any form of well wishing I can get when I'm in a bad spot. Pray to fucking Taco Bell for all I give a fuck. The fact is someone is offering support and that's all that really matters.
Would you feel the same way if they said "I'm keeping you in my thoughts/sending my best wishes/etc?" Because if not then this is hypocritical.
I am not at all following how these are the same. One is just wishing someone well, the other is wishing them well, while shoehorning religion into a conversation that has nothing to do with religion.
In my lifetime I can't remember a single time someone has said they were praying for me when some bad shit was going down, though it's possible it was said and I just had too much going on to notice. When I think about hearing "I'm praying for you" the jumble of moments that come to mind involve me being told in some passive aggressive manner that I am less than someone else because I don't believe in the same god they do. If it was only ever said nicely then it may not be that big of a deal, but in reality it's not always used just as well wishes.
Also, are we pretending that there isn't a whole pile of Christians who constantly tell people they're praying for them that would get supremely butt hurt if someone said "I'm praying to Mohammed for you?"
"You. You and your crazy life. You and your geographic anomaly. You and your drunken lesbianic ways and terrible navigational skills." - ProfArt and her holy baby
I am not at all following how these are the same. Â One is just wishing someone well, the other is wishing them well, while shoehorning religion into a conversation that has nothing to do with religion. Â Â Â
In my lifetime I can't remember a single time someone has said they were praying for me when some bad shit was going down, though it's possible it was said and I just had too much going on to notice. Â When I think about hearing "I'm praying for you" the jumble of moments that come to mind involve me being told in some passive aggressive manner that I am less than someone else because I don't believe in the same god they do. Â If it was only ever said nicely then it may not be that big of a deal, but in reality it's not always used just as well wishes. Â
Also, are we pretending that there isn't a whole pile of Christians who constantly tell people they're praying for them that would get supremely butt hurt if someone said "I'm praying to Mohammed for you?" Â Â Â
How does their bigotry and anger justify yours?
Boom
I would put the mic drop gif here but my battery is dying
Would you feel the same way if they said "I'm keeping you in my thoughts/sending my best wishes/etc?" Because if not then this is hypocritical.
I am not at all following how these are the same. One is just wishing someone well, the other is wishing them well, while shoehorning religion into a conversation that has nothing to do with religion.
In my lifetime I can't remember a single time someone has said they were praying for me when some bad shit was going down, though it's possible it was said and I just had too much going on to notice. When I think about hearing "I'm praying for you" the jumble of moments that come to mind involve me being told in some passive aggressive manner that I am less than someone else because I don't believe in the same god they do. If it was only ever said nicely then it may not be that big of a deal, but in reality it's not always used just as well wishes.
Also, are we pretending that there isn't a whole pile of Christians who constantly tell people they're praying for them that would get supremely butt hurt if someone said "I'm praying to Mohammed for you?"
I just don't know why you're so angry.
I would give zero fucks if someone was praying to Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha or the Flying Spaghetti monster. Just because someone invokes the concept of religon does not mean they are using it as a weapon. Why are you defending yourself against nothing?
I am not at all following how these are the same. One is just wishing someone well, the other is wishing them well, while shoehorning religion into a conversation that has nothing to do with religion.
In my lifetime I can't remember a single time someone has said they were praying for me when some bad shit was going down, though it's possible it was said and I just had too much going on to notice. When I think about hearing "I'm praying for you" the jumble of moments that come to mind involve me being told in some passive aggressive manner that I am less than someone else because I don't believe in the same god they do. If it was only ever said nicely then it may not be that big of a deal, but in reality it's not always used just as well wishes.
Also, let's not pretend that there isn't a whole pile of Christians who constantly tell people they're praying for them that would get supremely butt hurt if someone said "I'm praying to Mohammed for you."
Hmm ill take any form of well wishing I can get when I'm in a bad spot. Pray to fucking Taco Bell for all I give a fuck. The fact is someone is offering support and that's all that really matters.
Now I'm thinking about the Taco bell dog.. lol. Seriously though couldn't agree more. I just don't fundamentally understand getting upset at someone essentially wishing you well and trying to offer support. I care more that I'm cared enough for to have those well wishes even if they're in the form of a prayer.
Would you feel the same way if they said "I'm keeping you in my thoughts/sending my best wishes/etc?" Because if not then this is hypocritical.
I am not at all following how these are the same. One is just wishing someone well, the other is wishing them well, while shoehorning religion into a conversation that has nothing to do with religion.
In my lifetime I can't remember a single time someone has said they were praying for me when some bad shit was going down, though it's possible it was said and I just had too much going on to notice. When I think about hearing "I'm praying for you" the jumble of moments that come to mind involve me being told in some passive aggressive manner that I am less than someone else because I don't believe in the same god they do. If it was only ever said nicely then it may not be that big of a deal, but in reality it's not always used just as well wishes.
Also, are we pretending that there isn't a whole pile of Christians who constantly tell people they're praying for them that would get supremely butt hurt if someone said "I'm praying to Mohammed for you?"
Well, a Muslim wouldn't say that because they don't pray to Mohammed the way Christians pray to Jesus. They pray to God.
Anyway, ditto pretty much everyone in here who has said that its not offensive if its from a place of care. I don't believe in God but I believe that the positive energy of my good thoughts are the same as someone else's positive energy in the form of a prayer.
"You. You and your crazy life. You and your geographic anomaly. You and your drunken lesbianic ways and terrible navigational skills." - ProfArt and her holy baby
"You. You and your crazy life. You and your geographic anomaly. You and your drunken lesbianic ways and terrible navigational skills." - ProfArt and her holy baby
Post by RoxMonster on Aug 12, 2014 14:41:38 GMT -5
It doesn't bother me. I grew up Catholic, mainly consider myself agnostic now. Many friends/family are Christian and say it to me. I know they truly care. It ruffles my feathers a little if I am struggling with something and they tell me "You just need to pray about it" if they know I'm not religious, but I just ignore.
I believe in A God but maybe not in the same way others do. I also do not participate in organized religion. But someone offering their prayers to me doesn't bother me. It's not like they're saying which God they're praying to. I mean, I have never had someone say to me 'I will pray to baby Jesus for you.'
I am not at all following how these are the same. One is just wishing someone well, the other is wishing them well, while shoehorning religion into a conversation that has nothing to do with religion.
In my lifetime I can't remember a single time someone has said they were praying for me when some bad shit was going down, though it's possible it was said and I just had too much going on to notice. When I think about hearing "I'm praying for you" the jumble of moments that come to mind involve me being told in some passive aggressive manner that I am less than someone else because I don't believe in the same god they do. If it was only ever said nicely then it may not be that big of a deal, but in reality it's not always used just as well wishes.
Also, are we pretending that there isn't a whole pile of Christians who constantly tell people they're praying for them that would get supremely butt hurt if someone said "I'm praying to Mohammed for you?"
Really? Because what I'm reading into this is that either you have never, ever had somebody just say "I'll pray for you/keep you in my prayers" when something bad has happened, or you are letting your own view of religion color the responses people give to you and thinking that the ONLY reason somebody could be doing that would be to try and "shove religion" in your face. I'm not even a Christian and find the entire concept of organized religion to be highly questionable but I can't help but feel this is a little...over the top, maybe? If they feel like there is a God, and that God hears and answers their prayers, and that they care about you enough to include your problems in them and ask God to help you, you REALLY just see that as "shoehorning religion" into a subject? Would you feel that way if somebody said they would pray to Allah for you? Or really any religion that wasn't Christianity?
As far as the Christians and Muslims that has really nothing to do with the discussion at hand so I'm not really sure why that was brought up.
Yeah, really. I can't think of anyone beyond my extended family that would say I'm praying for you to me. That's just not how the people I'm close to are, even the ones that are religious don't really wear their religion on their sleeve. The only people I can think of who would have said it nicely are the same people who have most definitely said it in a fashion designed to put me down. Tossing a nice I'm praying for you in here and there doesn't really make up for it being not so nice 95% of the time. I mean people, my aunt has taken to crying every time she sees me because I'm such a heathen. I certainly can recognize that most people don't mean more than to just wish someone well, but that doesn't change what it feels like when people say it to me because I know a whole pile of assholes.
I actually just went back to a post about my dad's heart surgery earlier this year. I figured that was prime time for someone to have said it to me/about my dad. There were three mentions of God in 50 something posts none from people I'm actually FB friends with.
- first one was just a straight I'm praying for a speedy recovery etc - (I don't know the person, but it was nice and nothing more) - The second was someone making a lighthearted joking comment and his sentence started with "thank god" - Person three comes in right after with "I thank God for the successful surgery and pray for a speedy recovery blah blah ....." I may be reading into things, but I'm 99% sure he was making a dig at the comment just prior to his based on how it looks on my wall.
And yes, I would feel this way about any religion.
Can I do a spin off post and say something that does bother me?
When we experienced our miscarriages (4 of them) On the 4th someone said to me "It's all in god's plan." That stung like no other. To have someone tell me their god took my children away from me because it was his plan just was incomprehensible to me. That sentiment just was a knife to the heart and was of no comfort to me at all.
This bothers me as well. I know it comforts some people who have a deep faith. A deep faith that I do not share. So telling me that a child dying from cancer or experiencing a M/C is god's plan, is HIGHLY offensive to be.
However when I had a m/c and my coworker who is very religious and knows that I am not said to me something like I hate what is happening but I know God has a plan, I wanted to tell her to fuck off. It was not comforting.
I have the opposite problem. I'm not religious and can never think of anything to say other than "thoughts and prayers," which is a half-lie. I'm not praying for you, but I will keep you in my thoughts. But that's not very eloquent.