Flame free racial thread.

[hermione]

Jul 10, 2015 11:37:51 GMT -5 carfar said:

Jul 10, 2015 11:29:04 GMT -5 @peggyolson said:

We live in a fairly diverse part of town. DD1 *LOVES* the hairstyles of the little black girls at the playground. She's always saying "I like your hair! It's so pretty!"

We tell her to keep her hands to herself no matter the race of the individual she's playing with, so no touching hair, etc.

Is there a reason I should tell her to not comment? She's being genuine that she really does think their hairstyle is pretty.

I don't think there's anything wrong with commenting that she likes it. Thank you thank you for not letting her touch it. 

I was actually going to post the question "My question is... WHY DO PEOPLE WANT TO TOUCH MY HAIR ALL THE TIME?! Also, my son's hair?! people are constantly touching his hair. Why do people think its ok?" 

It is NOT ok to let people feel like they are an animal in a petting zoo. Just say you like my hair and leave it at that. 

I don't have an answer but I went to a Detroit Publc High School. I graduated with 420 people and 9 (including me) were white. Classmates wanted to touch my hair every single day. 

[Deleted]

My confession : I'm biracial and it really annoys me when people, usually full black, say that I'm not black enough because of xyz. Or that I don't understand my culture. Same goes for some white people who are surprised my when they meet me + hear me speak.

Being biracial is tricky and people don't understand that I straddle a line between 2 races and I don't have to identify with one or the other. I can identify with both.

[MNH2013]

Jul 10, 2015 12:08:40 GMT -5 @choco said:

I don't think I ever shared this on here. DH and I had a very cushy life in Tampa but we were the ONLY minority among our group of friends there. It bothered the snot out of the both of us, even more so once we had DS1. I was very concerned how he would be treated as he grew older. Literally everyone made a comment about his hair and it got to the point where I felt uncomfortable since I started taking it as code for "look at that brown baby." There were other kids with just as awesome of a head of curly hair, yet people would only comment on my kid. The lack of diversity in our socioeconomic group was one of the biggest factors as to why we moved to a bigger and more diverse city. It's not perfect where we live now, but so much better than where we were before.

This is what I have an issue with similar to what @bunnybean mentioned. I am irked when people over exaggerate liking something. I was thinking of how to type it without sounding shitty. I can see how that would make you uncomfortable. I try and give compliments but some people (one girl in my office in particular) dwell on things and make anyone in the conversation uncomfortable.

 

[carfar]

Jul 10, 2015 12:23:15 GMT -5 @blissoff said:

My confession : I'm biracial and it really annoys me when people, usually full black, say that I'm not black enough because of xyz. Or that I don't understand my culture. Same goes for some white people who are surprised my when they meet me + hear me speak.

Being biracial is tricky and people don't understand that I straddle a line between 2 races and I don't have to identify with one or the other. I can identify with both.

Yup. I do try and always remember that because I am bi racial, I do actually have different life experiences than someone who is all white, or all black, it's definitely interesting. 

[gibbinator]

When my kids inevitably see their first black person (there is like one black family within 30km) and comment something like "look at her! Her skin's brown. Look mommy!" or whatever. What's the best wording for addressing this properly within earshot of that person?
Ds1 is just getting to the age where he likes pointing out differences.

[Velar Fricative]

Jul 10, 2015 12:23:59 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Jul 10, 2015 12:19:08 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Duh, I forgot about code-switching! Man, I am slacking.

Question for you guys who seem to know about code-switching (@246baje @mrsbecky as well). Would that include how young people speak in a very colloquial form with lots of slang, and then put on the polite, standard English for adults? Or is that not a real shift? Does it have to be between two dialects or two languages?

Yes, that's code-switching. So, pretty much everyone does it BUT it's more evident when it's between two distinct dialects/languages versus when it's between two different registers ("register" includes the slang example you mentioned; it has to do with social setting).

[carfar]

Jul 10, 2015 12:33:55 GMT -5 @stilljustash said:

Jul 10, 2015 12:15:24 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

That makes me so sad. I have a friend who is Dominican, and always felt like she had "pelo malo" when she was growing up. Now she has a hair blog because her hair is absolutely gorgeous and she loves it as an adult. I hope you feel that way now, because your hair is fabulous.

thank you!  (heart) i do love my hair very much now. sometimes, my mom is still shocked when she looks at my hair because it looks SO different from how it did when she was washing/drying/braiding it when i was little. same hair, but a completely different knowledge base (it's taken over a decade for me to truly understand my hair). she did her best, though, and i know it wasn't easy haha.

We are like hair sisters. I kinda love my hair now (most of the time HA)  I actually feel kinda bad for my poor white momma trying to figure out my hair. LOL She still tells stories of my running away telling her she was hurting my "scallop" and my aunts and grandma schooling her on how to care for it properly. LOL.  She did pretty good.. but I feel just recently like I actually know WTF I'm doing.  

[karinothing]

Jul 10, 2015 11:19:09 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

I have one for white people. Every time I black person commits a crime, white people come out talking about where are the black leaders condemning the person actions. Blacks must always speak out saying the don't agree with something another black person did. But I never hear white leaders come out condemning something white people did. Where were all the white leaders with the Charleston massacre or Sandy Hook, etc. Yes individually people condemn those acts, but there is no calling for a "leader" to condemn. Why do all black people have to represent all black people, but a white person can be an individual? The so and so isn't me attitude.

@astrid I have never heard anyone say that.

This is a post and run. Gotta go to work. Hopefully there is a good discussion going on when I return.

I have no clue, this is an interesting point. I have no clue who my white person leader would be. I guess with Charleston or Sandy Hook, you have senators and what not coming out against it, so I suppose those are the "white leaders" but they aren't really marketed as such. So in short, I don't know how to answer your question.

[awkwardpenguin]

@246baje, thank you for starting this thread.

Mine is more of a confession than anything. I recently read the I, Racist article and it really resonated with me. In particular I think I am terrified of mis-steps that would make me look racist in attempts to learn more or understand more. I want to be able to talk about race, and I want to be more actively anti-racist in my own life, but I'm painfully aware that I have blind spots. I still feel bad about the WIC discussion the other day, as an example.

I realize this is something I probably just need to get over, but it helps to talk it through. 

ETA: I need to get over it because discussions of racism need to be less about the feelings of white people and more about actual racism.

[karinothing]

Jul 10, 2015 12:31:59 GMT -5 gibbinator said:

When my kids inevitably see their first black person (there is like one black family within 30km) and comment something like "look at her! Her skin's brown. Look mommy!" or whatever. What's the best wording for addressing this properly within earshot of that person?
Ds1 is just getting to the age where he likes pointing out differences.

I honestly think I would just aknowledge it. I mean there is no harm in noticing someones skin color is a different color. The harm comes from treating them different. So you could aknowledge and then say, but none of that matters or something like that. DS hasn't asked this question yet, but he goes to a diverse daycare (when it comes to teachers anyway) and we live in a very diverse neighborhood. So to him it might just be part of life.

[pizzanight]

I have a probably stupid question about cultural appropriation - DH and I and both our kids are white. We have two guayabaras from when DH and his brother were in a wedding in 1981. Our kids are now the same age and I'd like to do some of DS's one year pictures with them in the shirts. As long as we just do shirts and not like, maracas or sombreros or brownface (GOD PAULA DEEN WTF) is this ok to do?

[karinothing]

Jul 10, 2015 12:58:35 GMT -5 pizzanight said:

I have a probably stupid question about cultural appropriation - DH and I and both our kids are white. We have two guayabaras from when DH and his brother were in a wedding in 1981. Our kids are now the same age and I'd like to do some of DS's one year pictures with them in the shirts. As long as we just do shirts and not like, maracas or sombreros or brownface (GOD PAULA DEEN WTF) is this ok to do?

I think these are fine. I feel like this style of shirt has crossed into mainstream culture.

[MNH2013]

Jul 10, 2015 12:43:26 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Jul 10, 2015 12:30:26 GMT -5 swizz said:

NO ONE in DC touched Cora ever. Like not once in public.

I can't even tell you how many times she's been touched since we moved to TX. And apparently baby wearing makes her even more open to touching? More freaky because they get so close to us! (Always elderly so I let it go, lol.)

My Cora gets touched sometimes because her hair is red. What really annoys me about it is the people who say, "where did she get that red hair?" And I think, "UM, FROM ME!!!! MY HAIR!!!!! I HATE YOU!"

I get this all the time too! M's red hair is pretty fiery mine is a little more dull but it's obviously still red.

[rbp]

Is the Dukes of Hazzard offensive to you? Do you think it was a good move for TV Land to pull it from their lineup?

They drive a car called the General Lee that looks like this.

[sweetday]

Jul 10, 2015 12:33:55 GMT -5 @stilljustash said:

Jul 10, 2015 12:15:24 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

That makes me so sad. I have a friend who is Dominican, and always felt like she had "pelo malo" when she was growing up. Now she has a hair blog because her hair is absolutely gorgeous and she loves it as an adult. I hope you feel that way now, because your hair is fabulous.

thank you!  (heart) i do love my hair very much now. sometimes, my mom is still shocked when she looks at my hair because it looks SO different from how it did when she was washing/drying/braiding it when i was little. same hair, but a completely different knowledge base (it's taken over a decade for me to truly understand my hair). she did her best, though, and i know it wasn't easy haha.

I'm Dominican too and grew up with people talking about my "pelo malo". 

Like ash its taken some time to get to where I am now with my hair and my mom acts the same too! 

[Marmee]

I have a question...my DD3 is very interested in Native American culture. The clothing, music, people, history,culture...she is in just in love with it. She's only just turned 6 but very old beyond her years in a lot of ways. I'm not sure where it came from but she's had exposure in parades/museums/ etc especially up here in wyoming. How do I tred this? I have a Navajo friend but I'm afraid to even ask her because maybe it's offensive to be "into" a culture that is not your own. Unfortunately DD3 doesn't know her (friend from college) so her interest in NA is only from a distance/impersonal way.

[fortnightlily]

About under-representation of diversity in the media, obviously it would be great if more minority voices in fiction, film, etc. could get larger mainstream platforms, but how do you feel about white writers writing characters of color? And does it compare to a cis-gendered person writing a transgendered character, or someone without disabilities writing a character with disabilities?  Is it helping the cause of diversity or is it too often just tokenizing?

[glitzy07]

I hope this isn't a really stupid, insensitive question.

My sister's boyfriend is Filipino (born and raised in the Philippines, moved to the US when he was a teenager).  Many of his closest friends are also Filipino or Cambodian.  In their group of friends, they refer to themselves as the "Brown Boys."  The first time I heard it being used at a party I found myself caught off guard and, as a white person, wanting to be offended on his behalf.  But I think to them it's somewhat similar to the black use of the "N" word being considered ok among themselves, but not if anyone else uses it?  Sister's boyfriend has no problem if his friends use the term, but has indicated that he'd be pissed if someone outside of their group did so.   

In a related story, my sister's boyfriend and my husband are like BFF's, total bromance going on.  I don't know the origin of the story, but somehow sister's boyfriend got the nickname of "Chopstick" that is used between he and H.  I was absolutely horrified the first time I heard it, but sister's boyfriend is totally fine with it and thinks it's funny because to him it was never meant as a racist thing.  In all honesty, I think sister's boyfriend may have come up with it in the first place.  I still think it's awful and cringe anytime I hear it and have told H to knock the nickname off around the kids because I don't need my son accidentally thinking it's ok to call any Asian person a name like that.

I guess my question is what is my place to be offended by things like this if the minority "in question" is not at all offended by it?  Do I just ignore and go on my way if they don't find it offensive?  

[WhatYouSee]

Jul 10, 2015 12:43:26 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Jul 10, 2015 12:30:26 GMT -5 swizz said:

NO ONE in DC touched Cora ever. Like not once in public.

I can't even tell you how many times she's been touched since we moved to TX. And apparently baby wearing makes her even more open to touching? More freaky because they get so close to us! (Always elderly so I let it go, lol.)

My Cora gets touched sometimes because her hair is red. What really annoys me about it is the people who say, "where did she get that red hair?" And I think, "UM, FROM ME!!!! MY HAIR!!!!! I HATE YOU!"

I have exactly this same experience with my red-headed DS! But maybe that's just my insecurity coming out; I want people to recognize my hair as red, but most people probably just see auburn at best.  I died a little inside when my hair person said, "I really think you could go red; you have the complexion for it." (wilted)

[sunshine608]

Jul 10, 2015 13:08:54 GMT -5 rbp said:

Is the Dukes of Hazzard offensive to you? Do you think it was a good move for TV Land to pull it from their lineup?

They drive a car called the General Lee that looks like this.

I have never watched it b/c of the Flag. It came of as a racist show b/c of that but I doubt it was and I wouldn't really know b.c I didn't watch. My parents would turn if it came on. I never saw the re-make either. My parents raised me not support anything commercial related to the confederate flag.  They never even took us to Stone Mountain Park for that very reason.

Honestly I think taking it off was a PR ploy and I'm sure it will be back on with the flag eventually. I don't think it was wrong or right- just something to do.

ETA: to fix my grammar and redundancy

[redwino]

Jul 10, 2015 11:29:02 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Is it super obvious when someone white is trying REALLY HARD to show they are okay with someone of an other race? Does that make sense? Like your old moderate liberal neighbor who says "she saw that slavery movie and wasn't it awful?!" I had a black coworker tell me that exact story.

Yep. I have a coworker who talks about the "adorable black kid" or "sweetest Hispanic kid" and "nicest older black mother" etc. I don't know if she talks to everyone like this but she definitely talks to me (black) like this. It's annoying and weird. It also makes me wonder what racial prejudices she is trying to compensate for. I've considered pulling her aside and having a discussion with her about it because she's young and 80% of our district are minority students. I don't want her to offend our families.

[spunkarella]

Jul 10, 2015 12:42:27 GMT -5 awkwardpenguin said:

@246baje, thank you for starting this thread.

n particular I think I am terrified of mis-steps that would make me look racist in attempts to learn more or understand more. I want to be able to talk about race, and I want to be more actively anti-racist in my own life, but I'm painfully aware that I have blind spots.

This is me, too.

I was an RA in college and my supervisor (black) cultivated a really fantastic, safe environment for his staff to talk about race. We had ground rules and a commitment to listen, share with each other, and suspend judgement as much as possible. It was awesome, and I leaned so much. But it's a process and I still have a long way to go.

Anyway, here's my question. Is there a preference between describing someone as mixed or biracial? I mostly see biracial on the boards and hear mixed in real life.

[carfar]

Jul 10, 2015 13:46:54 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Jul 10, 2015 11:51:04 GMT -5 @stilljustash said:

my H is 100% black and feels the same way about our hypothetical future son(s).

I have serious fears about having a hypothetical son too.

It's different with the girls. The discussions change greatly in content, intensity, and approach.

It doesn't have the same layers of "you are a black man, we are going to have to teach you how to stay alive in society", if that makes sense. 

#truth.    

[rootbeerfloat]

glitzy07, I describe myself as brown because, well, I am, lol. I do not think it's the same as the n-word in terms of baggage, but I get what you're saying in terms of a minority having more leeway in language that pertains to themselves. My Asian friend in college used the term "nip" similarly, but I certainly wouldn't teach or encourage my kids to do that (nor would I do it myself). "Chopstick" is more questionable to me, but it seems like a harmless nickname between the two guys. If there comes a point where you have to address it with your kids, I would say something like "it's a funny name for BF, but not something you can call other people."

[Velar Fricative]

Jul 10, 2015 13:15:05 GMT -5 @choco said:

Jul 10, 2015 13:04:00 GMT -5 @246baje said:

You wouldn't believe the shock people have when I tell them that there are white Bajans.


Lolol actually you would.

The first time I met a Chinese Jamaican I was flooooooored. 

When one of my college classmates turned out to be a Chinese Puerto Rican I almost fell out of my chair.

I mean, reading more about PR (and other places) since then made me realize it's a really diverse place but at age 18 I was still grappling with the fact that all these new college classmates from outside my NYC bubble didn't get the Jewish holidays off from school lol. Then my mind got blown some more!

[carfar]

Jul 10, 2015 14:02:49 GMT -5 spunkarella said:

Jul 10, 2015 12:42:27 GMT -5 awkwardpenguin said:

@246baje, thank you for starting this thread.

n particular I think I am terrified of mis-steps that would make me look racist in attempts to learn more or understand more. I want to be able to talk about race, and I want to be more actively anti-racist in my own life, but I'm painfully aware that I have blind spots.

This is me, too.

I was an RA in college and my supervisor (black) cultivated a really fantastic, safe environment for his staff to talk about race. We had ground rules and a commitment to listen, share with each other, and suspend judgement as much as possible. It was awesome, and I leaned so much. But it's a process and I still have a long way to go.

Anyway, here's my question. Is there a preference between describing someone as mixed or biracial? I mostly see biracial on the boards and hear mixed in real life.

I prefer bi racial, but am not terribly offended by mixed. 

[matildasun]

Jul 10, 2015 13:43:53 GMT -5 toriwc said:

More about language (I've not read past page two yet)...I'm an English teacher. Standard American English. I've always felt funny correcting black kids when they use what I've always considered to be a dialect. Yet some things are grammatically incorrect based on SAE. I like to think I handle it sensitively, but are they thinking I'm an asshole when I make corrections? In writing, I don't feel funny, it's more when we're doing oral work.

One of M's friend's mothers is a linguist who actually works with middle school teachers on this issue. I believe she wrote a book on it. I will pm you her name.

[momin2013]

I have a question that's been bugging me because it applies to DS. If you're biracial (or even more mixed - triracial?), how do you identify yourself on a form where you have to choose a box, like a census, etc.?

I am white and DH is Middle Easterm (often classified as "West-Asian" on forms like this), so since DS is technically both, which box should he choose?

[teatimefor2]

@246baje, Firstly I applaud you for this idea.

I have a couple honest questions, I will phase them as best as possible. Let me just state that I am white, my hometown and college town are very homogeneous as well as the area I live in now. I have a few minority friends, but not a huge amount. The majority of my black friends are British.

Fifteen years ago, I had an internship working with the ABA on the celebration of the 50th anniversary of Brown V the Board of Education. I had to compile media clippings and create bullets about topics in areas the ABA representatives would be speaking. I used a wrong term, I believe it was 'people of color' or 'colored people'. I honestly can't remember which I used. It was my second week there and I was called into the office of a team member who worked with my supervisor. She was black, to set the scene. She yelled at me, told me I had racially offended her and that I should be ashamed. I'll admit, I was completely stunned, burst into tears in her office and spent the next three months hiding from her. I was trying to write in the language that the main figurehead (who was also black) was using. It was my mistake and I had not been exposed to diversity growing up. This experience has stayed with me, I have felt guilty for years; I still do. I also wish I had asked her questions to have a better understanding. So here are my questions:

-Why do black people use negative language to speak about their race? This includes both versions of the N word (ending in -er and -a). Following this, why is it okay for a black person to use this language and it's not for a non-black person? If the language is negative, why even use it?

-I know it is not a black persons job to educate non-black people about what is offensive. But now that I have children, I want to educate them about all people and the history of all people. Black, White, Asian, etc. If you, the general you, as a black person could share one thing you want the next generation to know about black culture, what would you want a white person and understand and realise? I don't want my sons to repeat my huge mistake.

[rootbeerfloat]

Jul 10, 2015 14:07:33 GMT -5 momin2013 said:

I have a question that's been bugging me because it applies to DS. If you're biracial (or even more mixed - triracial?), how do you identify yourself on a form where you have to choose a box, like a census, etc.?

I am white and DH is Middle Easterm (often classified as "West-Asian" on forms like this), so since DS is technically both, which box should he choose?

My preference is to check all the boxes (and the Census lets you do this), but if forced to choose one, my default is either "Other" or the minority option. It depends somewhat on how I think the information will be used, too.