Flame free racial thread.

[SJ]

Jul 11, 2015 1:45:18 GMT -5 @246baje said:

Jul 11, 2015 0:03:43 GMT -5 SJ said:

Anyone who thinks @bluesky is trolling hasn't being paying attention for the last decade or so.

Either she is real or she is the most consistent troll in the history of the universe.

It's because I've been around so long that I think she is either a troll or incredibly ignorant. It has been 5 + years since Asian people in nice cars and she rolls up in here with chocolate and vanilla chess pieces?

If this is how I fail the flame free thing then so be it but this feels disrespectful of what we are trying to do. Because clearly @bluesky doesn't learn and isn't really trying to learn.

I am very sorry for being flippant.

I do think she is real and I do agree that she isn't really trying to learn. She is incredibly ignorant and she has said herself many times that she is very "sheltered"- whatever that means to her.

There is tremendous value in this thread and I apologize if I contributed to drawing attention to one of the most ridiculous parts of it.

As to the topic at hand, I am not sure what I want to say because I am really sitting and resting with the whole concept of not jumping into share our own experiences as it diminishes those that have been shared. I fully admit that my gut reaction is always to try to relate and sympathize, but I am going to try to be more intentional and not do that. It makes total sense that of course my experiences as a non-black woman are not the same as those of a black woman, and to in any way pretend otherwise would be obnoxious. I am just going to read and listen, and I don't think everyone has to post a burning question in order to learn from this thread.

[momin2013]

Jul 11, 2015 8:47:18 GMT -5 @tooshort said:

The snowy day and please baby please are favorites around here. The Lola series as well. I don't think the books need to be anything special, just kids being kids that happen to be black.

Random, but The Snowy Day was (and still is) my favourite kids' book of all time. According to my mom, if you flipped open my school library's copy, the little glued-on sign- out card was just my name over, and over, and over. I need to buy it for DS.

[bananapancakes]

I really enjoyed reading this thread. Thanks to all who contributed.

One of my favourite kid books that shows a great deal of diversity is this one.

www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0152053158?keywords=Everywhere%20babies&qid=1436623744&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

It shows families of all kinds (same sex, intergenerational, interracial). It shows breast feeding, bottle feeding, baby wearing, stroller pushing. The illustrations are beautiful and the text is fun to read.

[Deleted]

Jul 11, 2015 9:47:32 GMT -5 @bluesky said:

I really am trying to learn. I wish I had a bit more constructive input here. It's unfortunate that the replies I get will always be the same as long as I'm signed in under this name.

In chess pieces there are kings and queens. By having the instructor telling the kids to refer to them as chocolate and vanilla instead of black and white, I fear they are instilling in the kids heads that when you see black and white people, you need to refer to them as chocolate and vanilla instead of black and white. Flame away but it happened to my child. She has a black friend and when she was describing her to another friend, she referred to her as chocolate. I personally do not think that is ok. And would have loved to get some legitimate input on this. But I guess that is impossible to happen as "bluesky".

And this will be my last post in this thread.  There are so many great posts here and very informative and I don't want it turned into a circus simply because people feel a need to bash my posts.

You have gotten some good advice. Multiple people have said that it's not a big deal to refer to the pieces as chocolate and vanilla. It's dumb dumb dumb, but no need to talk to someone about it.

In regards to your child referring to another person as chocolate, again, not offensive, just incorrect. So politely correct your child and move on. Obviously kids are learning, so it's not a big deal. Tell her that chocolate and vanilla aren't races. Now if she was describing someone's skin color, then yes chocolate is a color, so then that's fine. Just like you can described someone's skin as white, tan, olive, etc. I'm not sure how old your child is to explain these differences between skin color, race, ethnicity,etc, but I hope you get the point. 

[ellipses84]

Jul 10, 2015 15:37:27 GMT -5 redwino said:

If you're white, did you consider the racial diversity of your neighborhood and schools before moving? This is something most of the minority people I know considered before choosing a home or school. I've never heard white people I know mentioned it.

Yes, I do. While I generally appreciate having a lot of information to make decisions, I feel like the demographic information on the real estate websites perpetuates segregation, and I hope it's not causing our society to take steps backwards. It relates to school district ratings, which I believe is a flawed rating system, and has a strong correlation to socioeconomic status.

I've lived all over the place, including 2 other countries, but primarily on the U.S. west coast, in areas that are very diverse. We recently moved to a large city in the South and the culture shock has been much more extreme than any other place I have moved to. It caught me off guard, but I can't quite pinpoint why. The majority of people I meet are very friendly and welcoming. Our biggest dilemma has been where to live. It would be my dream to live in a diverse, semi-urban/suburban neighborhood with a sense of community in a good school district that two professional working parents can afford (and many of our friends would love the same thing for their children). That doesn't seem to exist here.

DS is in a very diverse pre-school/daycare, so we haven't had to face this issue yet. The elementary school near his DC has good ratings and 0% white students and our neighborhood elementary school has poor ratings and 4% white students. An hour away in the suburbs, the schools have excellent ratings and 70% white students (and I will not be moving there for many reasons). The statistics were absolutely shocking to me. I didn't expect to encounter such extreme segregation. The schools don't reflect the demographics/diversity of the neighborhoods, either. It seems white families are moving or sending their kids to astronomically expensive private school when they reach that age. I would not hesitate to send DS to a good public school where white is the minority. Honestly, I do hesitate at him being the only white child in his entire school, though. I've heard a lot of negative experiences from people who grew up being the only person of their race in their school. I realize our financial status allows this to be an option for us, and not everyone has that choice.

I've been lurking on PC&E because the post a lot of great articles. I realize I've been blind to certain issues, because they haven't really impacted my life much. I recognize the white privilege and ignorance about the current impact and prevalence of racism in America. It was rarely discussed when I lived on the west coast, by any of my multi-cultural, mixed race group of friends and family members, so I appreciate the open and honest forum here.

My question for GBCNers:

What were your experiences as a minority in your school and community? 

Would you send your child to a school where they were the only child of their race? Where they are the minority? Is there are certain threshold/percentage you are comfortable with?

[redheadk]

Thanks for this thread @254baje. I appreciate the opportunity to learn from such amazing, articulate women.

[thejackpot]

Jul 11, 2015 9:47:32 GMT -5 @bluesky said:

I really am trying to learn. I wish I had a bit more constructive input here. It's unfortunate that the replies I get will always be the same as long as I'm signed in under this name.

In chess pieces there are kings and queens. By having the instructor telling the kids to refer to them as chocolate and vanilla instead of black and white, I fear they are instilling in the kids heads that when you see black and white people, you need to refer to them as chocolate and vanilla instead of black and white. Flame away but it happened to my child. She has a black friend and when she was describing her to another friend, she referred to her as chocolate. I personally do not think that is ok. And would have loved to get some legitimate input on this. But I guess that is impossible to happen as "bluesky".

And this will be my last post in this thread.  There are so many great posts here and very informative and I don't want it turned into a circus simply because people feel a need to bash my posts.

I don't know you and would not bash you based on your screen name. The chocolate and vanilla question just seemed out of place based on the tone of this post. Perhaps if you had phrased it in the manner you did with this follow-up people would have realized that you had a legitimate concern. I think the response about how to talk to your child that people are not ice cream flavors is very useful. Don't avoid posting as this is a flame free space. 

[carfar]

Jul 11, 2015 10:53:05 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

Jul 10, 2015 15:37:27 GMT -5 redwino said:

If you're white, did you consider the racial diversity of your neighborhood and schools before moving? This is something most of the minority people I know considered before choosing a home or school. I've never heard white people I know mentioned it.

Yes, I do. While I generally appreciate having a lot of information to make decisions, I feel like the demographic information on the real estate websites perpetuates segregation, and I hope it's not causing our society to take steps backwards. It relates to school district ratings, which I believe is a flawed rating system, and has a strong correlation to socioeconomic status.

I've lived all over the place, including 2 other countries, but primarily on the U.S. west coast, in areas that are very diverse. We recently moved to a large city in the South and the culture shock has been much more extreme than any other place I have moved to. It caught me off guard, but I can't quite pinpoint why. The majority of people I meet are very friendly and welcoming. Our biggest dilemma has been where to live. It would be my dream to live in a diverse, semi-urban/suburban neighborhood with a sense of community in a good school district that two professional working parents can afford (and many of our friends would love the same thing for their children). That doesn't seem to exist here.

My question for GBCNers:

What were your experiences as a minority in your school and community? 

Would you send your child to a school where they were the only child of their race? Where they are the minority? Is there are certain threshold/percentage you are comfortable with?

I mentioned a bit before, but I was one of 4 minority children in my class until high school. There was only one other black/white bi racial boy included, no black girls included in those numbers. It was hard. I was teased for my hair, asked about my hair... got called Oreo a few times... A friend's father decided I couldn't play with his daughter... People sometimes are surprised at "how eloquently I speak"... My general area is very liberal, and open minded, so while I very rarely experienced outright racism, the micro aggressions were real, and just feeling like you don't quite "fit" at an age where that is desperately all you want to do is super hard.

I would try very hard not to send my kid to a school where they are the only one of their race. I'm not sure of an actual threshold percentage is be looking for... But I'd hope it was reflective of the general diversity we have in our area? I have a few years to figure that out.

[redwino]

Jul 11, 2015 10:53:05 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

[/p]

My question for GBCNers:

What were your experiences as a minority in your school and community? 

Would you send your child to a school where they were the only child of their race? Where they are the minority? Is there are certain threshold/percentage you are comfortable with?

[/quote]


I was the token black person in my preschool age 3-5. I only went 2 days a week but it negatively impacted my self image. I experienced no overt racism or prejudice but there was a strong feeling of otherness. There was an Asian-American boy and everyone else was white, including teachers. My k-12 experiences were in fairly integrated schools but my early childhood experience left an impact on me.

I'm very anxious about sending dd to a daycare where she will be the only black child. The only reason I'm willing to do it is because the provider is one of my closest friends and she will be like family to dd. However, I plan to put her in a more diverse environment at 2.

My city is very segregated and my job will allow me to send dd to whatever city school I want. Most of the schools are 90%+ Black or 90%+ Hispanic. There are about 5 schools which skew predominantly White but that percentage is only 60% or so. We don't know what we will do yet. We are considering moving out of the city which will almost guarantee dd will go to a predominantly White school. I'm ok with that but I would like for there to be other races represented and not just 2 or 3 students.

[redheadbaker]

I just read the whole thread and wanted to say thanks to those who have shared their experiences. I've leaned a lot.

[redheadbaker]

Also, for those who want to talk to their kids about race, there is a Daniel Tiger episode about how the kids are the same in some ways, and different in others. It's a good way to start a conversation.

[Deleted]

Jul 11, 2015 10:53:05 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

Jul 10, 2015 15:37:27 GMT -5 redwino said:

If you're white, did you consider the racial diversity of your neighborhood and schools before moving? This is something most of the minority people I know considered before choosing a home or school. I've never heard white people I know mentioned it.

Yes, I do. While I generally appreciate having a lot of information to make decisions, I feel like the demographic information on the real estate websites perpetuates segregation, and I hope it's not causing our society to take steps backwards. It relates to school district ratings, which I believe is a flawed rating system, and has a strong correlation to socioeconomic status.

I've lived all over the place, including 2 other countries, but primarily on the U.S. west coast, in areas that are very diverse. We recently moved to a large city in the South and the culture shock has been much more extreme than any other place I have moved to. It caught me off guard, but I can't quite pinpoint why. The majority of people I meet are very friendly and welcoming. Our biggest dilemma has been where to live. It would be my dream to live in a diverse, semi-urban/suburban neighborhood with a sense of community in a good school district that two professional working parents can afford (and many of our friends would love the same thing for their children). That doesn't seem to exist here.

DS is in a very diverse pre-school/daycare, so we haven't had to face this issue yet. The elementary school near his DC has good ratings and 0% white students and our neighborhood elementary school has poor ratings and 4% white students. An hour away in the suburbs, the schools have excellent ratings and 70% white students (and I will not be moving there for many reasons). The statistics were absolutely shocking to me. I didn't expect to encounter such extreme segregation. The schools don't reflect the demographics/diversity of the neighborhoods, either. It seems white families are moving or sending their kids to astronomically expensive private school when they reach that age. I would not hesitate to send DS to a good public school where white is the minority. Honestly, I do hesitate at him being the only white child in his entire school, though. I've heard a lot of negative experiences from people who grew up being the only person of their race in their school. I realize our financial status allows this to be an option for us, and not everyone has that choice.

I've been lurking on PC&E because the post a lot of great articles. I realize I've been blind to certain issues, because they haven't really impacted my life much. I recognize the white privilege and ignorance about the current impact and prevalence of racism in America. It was rarely discussed when I lived on the west coast, by any of my multi-cultural, mixed race group of friends and family members, so I appreciate the open and honest forum here.

My question for GBCNers:

What were your experiences as a minority in your school and community? 

Would you send your child to a school where they were the only child of their race? Where they are the minority? Is there are certain threshold/percentage you are comfortable with?

I grew up all over the country as a military brat, but was still one of few minorities in my schools. The exception being in San Diego, which was very diverse. On top of that I played soccer, which is popular among black boys, but definitely not among black females. I think I've only had 2 black female teammates my entire life, and I've been playing for about 20 years. This includes when I was living in Cape Town.

Anyway, I had a great childhood, but wish I did have more minority friends. If I could help it, I'd absolutely not want my kid to be the only minority. My parents didn't really have much of a choice since we were assigned locations to live, so they always did their best to expose me to diversity and enrich a strong black culture in to me.

I now have a strong mix of diverse friends and it's perfect.

Diversity is very important to me and I won't live in a non diverse place if I can help it, especially for my hypothetical future kids. If there is an "A rated school" that isn't diverse vs. a "B rated school" that is diverse, I'd probably choose the B rated school.

[Deleted]

Kudos to everybody answering so politely and with such civility.

I am...unable. LOL.

[redwino]

Jul 11, 2015 13:56:25 GMT -5 @mrswindycity said:

What do you consider diverse as far as schools go? I don't know how to word this, but I guess is there a percentage of non-white students that's a threshold of sorts (I know this will vary by each person)?

I guess when I looked up my kids' schools and it was 75% white that seemed not that diverse to me but maybe it's not horrible.

Anecdote: I consider my high school diverse but when you look up the stats it's 88% white. That said, half of my school population was Arabic/Muslim, so they fit into the white category but being at the school, I felt it was quite diverse.

I don't have a true percentage threshold. I feel I went to a diverse HS. The numbers there were about 45% white, 25% black, 20% Hispanic, and 10% other. This makeup was fine for me as a black person but I'm sure the 3 Asian students would have preferred to see more people who looked like them. If we decide to move for another school district, I won't consider a school that is more than 70% white. I would also like to a school with many cultures and religions represented. This is probably a pipe dream living in Oklahoma.

[Deleted]

Jul 11, 2015 14:29:02 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

Jul 11, 2015 13:46:08 GMT -5 @misoangry said:

Kudos to everybody answering so politely and with such civility.

I am...unable. LOL.

I wanted to tag you so many times with the asking nationality questions. But I see you found your way over here anyway.

Hahahahaha.

It's like this, people.

Would you ask somebody if he's gay?

No, you wouldn't.

Don't ask me about my ethnicity.  It's none of your damn business.

[mushmouse]

Jul 10, 2015 11:51:17 GMT -5 carfar said:

Jul 10, 2015 11:47:28 GMT -5 mandapanda18 said:

People touch my kid all the time too... I don't think it is race related. They are always trying to touch his hair, or hands (eww) and have since he was a tiny baby. I ask my son to not touch anyone without the okay from them. A boy came up to him in the park yesterday and grabbed his arms and started swinging them around, he told him he didn't ask (lol) so I guess it is working. 

Yes, people, in general tend to touch babies they have no business touching more than they probably should, however... I know, through my experience as a person with textured hair that people can and do touch black people's hair out of a place of it being "different" and thinking it feels rough or wirey or different. It is not ok. 

It isn't just a baby thing though.  I had very long blonde straight hair and people tried to touch it all the time.  My brother had red hair and the same thing happened to him. No one should ever touch a stranger no matter how different they think they might feel.  Boundaries people!

[Deleted]

Jul 11, 2015 15:31:05 GMT -5 mushmouse said:

Jul 10, 2015 11:51:17 GMT -5 carfar said:

Yes, people, in general tend to touch babies they have no business touching more than they probably should, however... I know, through my experience as a person with textured hair that people can and do touch black people's hair out of a place of it being "different" and thinking it feels rough or wirey or different. It is not ok. 

It isn't just a baby thing though.  I had very long blonde straight hair and people tried to touch it all the time.  My brother had red hair and the same thing happened to him. No one should ever touch a stranger no matter how different they think they might feel.  Boundaries people!

You should go back and read the whole thread...

[Deleted]

Exasperating.

[Deleted]

Ready for the flames or 'education'
Why is it okay to say 'why do white people do this?' I hate when people say that about any race or group or anything. But this happens on the board.
Example 'why do white people always want to touch my kids hair?' I don't want to touch your kids hair. I don't know why that weird person feels the need to do that. But I worry that by asking this, I am treading on the #notallwjitepeople nonsense.


Totally different comment. How do we prevent stereotypes or prejudice? I feel like this might be a human nature thing. But I could be wrong. But I feel like we like to categorize and recognize. Even 'all 3 yr olds are assholes'. Likely not all of them are, but as a group, they can't defend themselves here lol.
But we do tend to group people. 'Women do this' 'men do thus' 'xyz culture is always late'. 'White men can't jump' 'black people run fast'
Why do we do this? Does the media cause this? We have our own stereotypes that we have found for ourselves. Ignorant example 'Asian people drive fancy cars'
But is this innate? Or can we change this? Kids do this but mostly due to society.

I am rambling.

[konapoppy]

Jul 11, 2015 15:42:47 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Jul 11, 2015 13:56:25 GMT -5 @mrswindycity said:

What do you consider diverse as far as schools go? 

When choosing where to live, we preferred a mix of cultures, that truly mix together. It's one of those, I know it when I see it things. An abundance of diversity is really noticeable at community events, which is cool. We weren't looking for a certain percentage, but we wanted to know that our family makeup would be normal. Anyway, here's how things break down demographically. 

Our district of residence enrollment 
0.2.% Native American or Alaskan 
6.6% Asian
0.4 % Hawaiian or Pacific Islander
1.3 % Filipino 
22.4% Hispanic  or Latino
4.1 % Black
53.1 %  White
10.6 % Two or more races 
1.4 % Decline to state

vs. LA County enrollment 
0.3 % Native American or Alaskan 
7.8 % Asian
0.4 % Hawaiian or Pacific Islander
2.2  % Filipino
64.8 % Hispanic or Latino
8.3 % Black
14.2  % White
1.2% Two or more races
0.8 % Decline to state

Thanks for posting this. My suburb has a similar breakdown as your neighborhood (though Asian is the second highest percentage) and all of my immediate neighbors are non-white. The lack of socioeconomic diversity does bother me, but my H and I both work out here. I am hoping that education and frequent visits to our families will expose our kids to more ways of living and lifestyles (urban and rural).

Also, thanks to this thread I just registered for more books with diverse kids and families. We also paid closer attention on our day care tours yesterday and picked a site with diverse staff and kids.

Thanks to everyone for answering questions openly and honestly.

[Deleted]

Jul 11, 2015 17:53:38 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Why is education in quotes?

Because it isn't in a school.

[Deleted]

Jul 11, 2015 18:30:24 GMT -5 @hannymaren said:

Jul 11, 2015 17:53:38 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Why is education in quotes?

Because it isn't in a school.

I wasn't trying to be weird. I was asking a flame free question and then I got flames.
Thanks

[Deleted]

Jul 11, 2015 17:57:52 GMT -5 @246baje said:

Jul 11, 2015 17:18:52 GMT -5 @hannymaren said:

Ready for the flames or 'education'
Why is it okay to say 'why do white people do this?' I hate when people say that about any race or group or anything. But this happens on the board.
Example 'why do white people always want to touch my kids hair?' I don't want to touch your kids hair. I don't know why that weird person feels the need to do that. But I worry that by asking this, I am treading on the #notallwjitepeople nonsense.


Totally different comment. How do we prevent stereotypes or prejudice? I feel like this might be a human nature thing. But I could be wrong. But I feel like we like to categorize and recognize. Even 'all 3 yr olds are assholes'. Likely not all of them are, but as a group, they can't defend themselves here lol.
But we do tend to group people. 'Women do this' 'men do thus' 'xyz culture is always late'. 'White men can't jump' 'black people run fast'
Why do we do this? Does the media cause this? We have our own stereotypes that we have found for ourselves. Ignorant example 'Asian people drive fancy cars'
But is this innate? Or can we change this? Kids do this but mostly due to society.

I am rambling.

The only people very mildly flamed in this thread were @bluesky and not even @upnorth who was incredibly persistent about wanting an n-word substitute.

We have tried to keep it civil trolling aside but when you enter with snide comments what are you trying to achieve? Open dialogue?Because it's hard to get there when you start out with putting people on the defensive.



Isn't your husband of a different ethnicity other than white Canadian? Aren't you raising a multi-ethnic daughter? Wouldn't you want others to hear her concerns with respect?

This was a question. I am trying to learn.
Someone explained. Thanks for that. I listened. I get it better now.
And the prejudice thing was a question that I think we all need to consider. (White all) why do we do that? How do we help that? Isn't that the point of this whole post? An open discussion? I was trying to understand something. Not make fun of.
But if your answer to questions is just to say I am trolling and a bad person, then bye.

[Deleted]

Jul 11, 2015 17:57:52 GMT -5 @246baje said:

Jul 11, 2015 17:18:52 GMT -5 @hannymaren said:

Ready for the flames or 'education'
Why is it okay to say 'why do white people do this?' I hate when people say that about any race or group or anything. But this happens on the board.
Example 'why do white people always want to touch my kids hair?' I don't want to touch your kids hair. I don't know why that weird person feels the need to do that. But I worry that by asking this, I am treading on the #notallwjitepeople nonsense.


Totally different comment. How do we prevent stereotypes or prejudice? I feel like this might be a human nature thing. But I could be wrong. But I feel like we like to categorize and recognize. Even 'all 3 yr olds are assholes'. Likely not all of them are, but as a group, they can't defend themselves here lol.
But we do tend to group people. 'Women do this' 'men do thus' 'xyz culture is always late'. 'White men can't jump' 'black people run fast'
Why do we do this? Does the media cause this? We have our own stereotypes that we have found for ourselves. Ignorant example 'Asian people drive fancy cars'
But is this innate? Or can we change this? Kids do this but mostly due to society.

I am rambling.

The only people very mildly flamed in this thread were @bluesky and not even @upnorth who was incredibly persistent about wanting an n-word substitute.

We have tried to keep it civil trolling aside but when you enter with snide comments what are you trying to achieve? Open dialogue?Because it's hard to get there when you start out with putting people on the defensive.



Isn't your husband of a different ethnicity other than white Canadian? Aren't you raising a multi-ethnic daughter? Wouldn't you want others to hear her concerns with respect?

Wait wait.
I reread my original post and I can see where you are coming from.
Sorry. My post was not in reference to things people said in this 9 page thread. It was a general question.
Somebody replied to that part.
I can see where he confusion came in. I honest to goodness, did not mean that flames in this thread were unwarranted. I think bluesky deserved the snide comments.

[Deleted]

Jul 11, 2015 18:42:26 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

Jul 11, 2015 18:30:24 GMT -5 @hannymaren said:

Because it isn't in a school.

Education only occurs in a school?

It was also because often replies are gifs and people saying 'I'm sick of this nonsense'
That is an education. I read and I learn.
But not traditional

You know what? I waited until page 12 to be brave enough to post and perhaps my use of quotes came off wrong and that was not my intention.
It was meant to be more endearing. Like a little mouse saying 'please don't kill me for asking this'. I suck at words apparently. And no body will believe me. But since I am usually a pretty decent human being around here - I hope you can.

I was trying to create a dialogue with the second half of my post. Why do we stereotype. How do we fix this? Because my H and I were talking about it today. I read an article about 'all women' today. I want to change. I don't want my daughter to stereotype. What do we do to fix this?

[Deleted]

Jul 11, 2015 17:40:01 GMT -5 @koko said:

Jul 11, 2015 17:18:52 GMT -5 @hannymaren said:

Ready for the flames or 'education'
Why is it okay to say 'why do white people do this?' I hate when people say that about any race or group or anything. But this happens on the board.
Example 'why do white people always want to touch my kids hair?' I don't want to touch your kids hair. I don't know why that weird person feels the need to do that. But I worry that by asking this, I am treading on the #notallwjitepeople nonsense.

Treading in that is exactly what you're doing. You're taking a valid generalization and personalizing it. Black people by and large do not go up to other black people, particularly those they don't know extremely well, and ask to touch their hair. I have never had it happen to me by a black person, outside of one or two times when sharing methods to try and get better moisture (a recurring problem with black hair, particularly natural hair). However, white people do (I have had it happen frequently with white folks, particularly after I went natural) and the reasoning behind it is very often othering, treating black hair and by extension the black woman attached to it as a object, and the complete self-centeredness behind thinking their curiosity overshadows that woman's humanity and right over her own body plays into that.

You are making it about you when it's NOT ABOUT YOU. This is the "white fragility" that gets mentioned as making race so difficult to talk about. Because you hear it, but immediately want to distance yourself from it so you break out "why does everyone say white people do this?!" And by doing that, you are effectively shutting down the conversation and removing their experiences by making your comfort more important than the very real fact that yes, white people do this.

This was good information.
To build on this. How do I answer? Say a friend says 'why do white people always do xyz?' Do I say 'I don't know I don't do that?' Or do I say 'yeah. That's not okay' and not really answer the question.

[jln]

Jul 10, 2015 21:35:51 GMT -5 greycat said:

@246baje thank you for this post

Several people recommended reading books to kids. Any specific books I can look for?

Also, I would love suggestions on articles/books about racial bias.

DS1 loves Obama's childrens book.  It has stories about several heroes of all different races.  

[rugbywife]

I feel like I always have questions but never when these threads happen.

I do know that having read a lot of the race related thread on GBCN I have realized that I have done/said some fairly racist things. There was an article posted on CEP last week about what white people need to stop doing during discussion on race. I shared it with DH. Today in the car I said/did something that was unintentionally racist and when he called me on it, I started making excuses, saying that wasn't how I meant it. He looked at me and said, just accept that you said something that was racist, recognize it, and apologize. He was right.

[Deleted]

I'm glad KOKO pointed out that trying to relate is offensive. I had people touching my curly red hair all though my child/teen years up so much that my friends used to make bets when we were out together on how long it would take before someone would do that. I think probably half the time it came from a "what does your different hair feel like" and the other times people are just weirdos. So I had to really think on why that wasn't relatable and that was enlightening.

In all circumstances I try really hard to assume innocence. It seems like that is not taught, in any culture. I do feel like I have to tread with extra caution with people of other races because I don't want my intentions to be misunderstood as because of any racial thing. I don't know if that's offesive or not. i definitely can't claim to understand what it's like to be a minority but I would like to a little more.

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Jul 11, 2015 19:46:52 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

@hannymaren, I swear I am not picking on you, but do you and your H ever talk about race issues? Are you concerned about raising a biracial child and how her experience growing up may be different than yours?

My husband is technically white.
His culture is prejudiced against. Our city is multicultural so he rarely experiences it here. He shuts it down quickly from friends (rare) and ignores or laughs off bigots that are strangers. We were in Hawaii and the guy who took us on a fishing tour told him about an hour in that 'when I read your name I thought you might be some turban wearing guy and I was worried. But you're cool'. How do you reply to that on a boat in the middle of the ocean? My husband talked about his life and his history and hopefully educated the asshole that he was a regular person born in a country with different traditions than this one but still a decent human being. Maybe that man learned something that day. Probably not.
Anyway, he rarely experiences prejudice that he is aware of. The media pisses him off regularly. The mental illness white guy but terrorist middle eastern guy - that drives him nuts.
But as for raising our daughter, she is being taught her culture. We are not any religion.