Flame free racial thread.

[carfar]

A lot of people can't tell my ethnicity. I get variations of "what are you" all the time. It does not matter what I am. It will come out eventually if we hang out enough. Just no. I am not a curiosity. I'm a human, same as you. I may not be completely offended or angry you are asking me, but I'm definitely rolling my eyes that you want to know so you can put me in a neat little box.

[sfy]

Jul 10, 2015 15:13:24 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Jul 10, 2015 15:10:31 GMT -5 @246baje said:

Thanks for this. I need to know this.

How old should I start? What do I say?

I know some people start really young, in elementary school,  before their sons get old enough to be viewed as scary. 

I  wonder if sfy has any experience in this area. 

I think this is good advice.  We didn't start until DS was in high school, and with everything that has transpired in recent years, I now think we were too late.  Look at Tamir Rice.  My big fear was always around him driving, but obviously, we now know that black boys aren't safe walking in their own neighborhoods or playing in parks.  So I don't know if there is an age that is too early.  DH would do mock pull overs with DS, drill him with questions, call him "boy"--all sorts of really grating things but we wanted to be very clear with him who he might face out there and that class/education/shiny cars or whatever else is no armor against racism.  And that is obviously not to say that anyone should have to put up with the nonsense, but I do think some people believe they will be insulated against it, and of course, it's not true.  

I think if I were framing the conversation with young children, I would start with all of the good that LEO do, but perhaps that they don't always know who is good and who is bad and how we as citizens have a duty to sometimes help them discern between the two.  As they get older, I think it's appropriate to talk about how we all have inherent biases and some of us carry those biases to work with us and why that can be particularly dangerous for black men interacting with LEOs.  The older they get, the more frank the conversations can be, but I wouldn't send a brown or black male out into the world without him fully understanding that he will, at some point, encounter someone who is going to be afraid of him, because of the color of his skin, whether that is illustrated by a clutched purse, a quickened pace, or something else.  To do so is to leave our young men woefully unprepared.

[sfy]

Jul 10, 2015 16:39:08 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

Jul 10, 2015 16:36:04 GMT -5 @mrsbecky said:

LOL it's funny you mention this bc I said to someone else that the experiences were different and i was surprised that that line of discussion was kind of going unchecked in here.

I mean people comment on DS1's hair all the time but that wasn't relevant to this conversation.

Well. We are trying to keep it flame free. So...

I haven't read the whole thread, but I wanted to light my flame so hard at the burning desire to know someone's ethnicity and the why can't other people use the n-word questions, but then I reminded myself that it was flame free, that I'm only here by grace of a tag, and that I don't even go here.  So I just kept scrolling, but...ooowee.

[sfy]

Jul 10, 2015 16:59:51 GMT -5 @upnorth said:

pennypenny & @kirkette -well, yes karaoke specifically but I even generally substitute curse words in songs. I guess I'm weird and can accept that the proper response is just to skip it.

Ignore them.  Go for it.  Tag me and let me know how it goes. 

Kidding, kind of.  Bye guys !

[ava]

Jul 10, 2015 17:09:43 GMT -5 itsme said:

Jul 10, 2015 15:44:04 GMT -5 ava said:

This is very interesting to me. My H is half Hispanic, looks very white and has a very Hispanic last name. He has told me countless stories of how many times he has been singled out because of his last name only to be laughed at when they see how white he is, or questioned on his heritage as if he has to prove why he is so white but has a Hispanic last name. He is very proud of his heritage and the constant questions he gets when he gives someone his last name are really annoying for him.



I am white (Italian) and took his last name when we married and have worried about being discriminated against because of the last name as well. About a year ago I was told the company I work for would be eliminating my position and the first thing I thought of was how it may be harder for me to find a job with my married last name. I ended up keeping my job so it is a non issue for now but I worry about that for my DD. She is 1/4 Hispanic and looks very white. I worry her last name could be a hindrance for her growing up.


 

Are you in a state with a high Hispanic population?

Some people who don't know my white husband are shocked when they find out my Hispanic last is mine and not my husband's.  Because I don't have brown skin they assume I'm white and I took his name.  I wouldn't say I get laughed at but there's definitely some shock and plenty of questions.  Then because I live in CA and I'm not Mexican that's another shock to people.  I'm Puerto Rican and Ecuadorian (2nd gen)and people are in awe of that.  People automatically assume that because I live in CA and am Hispanic that I'm Mexican.  I'm not offended by any of it but sometimes I'm like come on people, not every Hispanic is Mexican.  When I explain I was born in NY it seems to make more sense to them.


I don't appreciate that Pandora plays all commercials in Spanish though!  I don't listen to Spanish music on Pandora so why the Spanish commercials?

ETA:  "... I wouldn't say I get laughed at" I take that back.  High school was rough for me while I was trying to find my way and figure out where I fit.  I was laughed at and not deemed Hispanic by the Hispanics because I was too white.   

Yes to the bolded for my H. He spent quite a bit of time in Mexico as a child and some of his relatives down there had a hard time accepting him because he is light skinned.



There is a pretty good population of Hispanics here but it’s not like California by any means.



The amount of mailers and publications in Spanish that we receive is laughable. We primarily speak English and it's always assumed because of the last name we are Spanish speaking.

[Deleted]

pandce.proboards.com/thread/428497/intersectional-feminism

And here is the thread from CEP that discusses some more issues. It's a lot about intersectional feminism, but I think it also does touch on some of the questions that were brought up in this thread.

[MNH2013]

Jul 10, 2015 16:47:35 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Jul 10, 2015 16:25:48 GMT -5 @koko said:

One thing I will...ask? Mention? I dunno. But when a black person is sharing their experiences, please don't jump in with "I totally get that, because *insert here*". Because you probably don't. And I know people do that to try and identify with folks, but what it does is remove the "black" experience, or their experience, and turn it into an "everybody" experience. It also makes it about you when it's not about you.

The hair discussion is a perfect example of that. Sure it happens in Korea, but we aren't talking about Korea. Yes, people will touch white folks' hair but the deeper reasoning AND societal acceptance/history behind it is completely different.

Thank you for putting it like this. I hope I did not come off like that. I was really more making a weird side convo about my daughter's red hair. I do not think it is comparable, nor is it the same in Korea for white people.

I am so sorry if I did that poorly!

I apologize as well. I didn't/don't think it is comparable. Just side conversation. I see how that can take away from the issue.

[Deleted]

Jul 10, 2015 18:38:30 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Jul 10, 2015 18:12:50 GMT -5 @bluesky said:

My DD is on a chess team. Their instructor told them to not refer to the pieces as black and white but instead chocolate and vanilla. I know this sounds a bit ridiculous but I sincerely want to know if that seems ok. I thought it was very odd personally.

Um what.
Please have her use correct terminology.
I would side eye the hell if someone said chocolate rook.  

this is the same school that supposedly frowns upon uncrustables

[Deleted]

Jul 10, 2015 18:47:30 GMT -5 sxia said:

Jul 10, 2015 18:38:28 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

It's bad. I'm a fan as well. There are other shirts that will accentuate your figure.

So, is it bad to be a fan? Is it bad to wear a t-shirt? Is it bad if the shirt says, "Washington" but not "Redskins"? Is it bad if the shirt says "Skins?"
Is it bad if it doesn't have a Native American on the shirt?

Do you think we should also remove any kind of person as a mascot -- Cleveland Indians? Do you think Indian is offensive because they're NOT Indian?
Should we say "Native Americans". I could see the Washington Natives/Nates as a team name.

Would you think I'm a racist because I wear the t-shirt?

I think the Redskins, Indians, Braves, etc really need to change their team names.

It is ridiculous that they haven't yet honestly.

I also have to say that saying "We learned Hail to the Redskins in class" is like saying your elementary school in South Carolina flew a Confederate flag. Tradition doesn't excuse racism, you know? We know better now, and we need to do better.

[sfy]

Jul 10, 2015 18:32:29 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

Jul 10, 2015 18:12:50 GMT -5 @bluesky said:

My DD is on a chess team. Their instructor told them to not refer to the pieces as black and white but instead chocolate and vanilla. I know this sounds a bit ridiculous but I sincerely want to know if that seems ok. I thought it was very odd personally.

Quit that lying shit.

I'm hollering right now. We're past go sit in the corner. Just go pray.

[sfy]

Jul 10, 2015 18:14:19 GMT -5 @246baje said:

Jul 10, 2015 17:16:59 GMT -5 sfy said:

I think this is good advice.  We didn't start until DS was in high school, and with everything that has transpired in recent years, I now think we were too late.  Look at Tamir Rice.  My big fear was always around him driving, but obviously, we now know that black boys aren't safe walking in their own neighborhoods or playing in parks.  So I don't know if there is an age that is too early.  DH would do mock pull overs with DS, drill him with questions, call him "boy"--all sorts of really grating things but we wanted to be very clear with him who he might face out there and that class/education/shiny cars or whatever else is no armor against racism.  And that is obviously not to say that anyone should have to put up with the nonsense, but I do think some people believe they will be insulated against it, and of course, it's not true.  

I think if I were framing the conversation with young children, I would start with all of the good that LEO do, but perhaps that they don't always know who is good and who is bad and how we as citizens have a duty to sometimes help them discern between the two.  As they get older, I think it's appropriate to talk about how we all have inherent biases and some of us carry those biases to work with us and why that can be particularly dangerous for black men interacting with LEOs.  The older they get, the more frank the conversations can be, but I wouldn't send a brown or black male out into the world without him fully understanding that he will, at some point, encounter someone who is going to be afraid of him, because of the color of his skin, whether that is illustrated by a clutched purse, a quickened pace, or something else.  To do so is to leave our young men woefully unprepared.

Thank you so much.

DS is three and since his birth, white people have fallen over themselves to coo at him, to comment on his looks, his hair and to give him special treatment.

I have found it curious because I don't know when it will stop. When he will become scary and how we prepare him for the sudden switch.

It may not stop. My DS has green eyes, so he has always gotten so many comments, even now. It doesn't mean that people aren't afraid of him.

[sfy]

Jul 10, 2015 19:01:32 GMT -5 @smorriso said:

Can I also just add that just because this is a flame free post doesn't give license to stroll in here and post some ridiculous ass questions.

I think people are genuinely trying to give good information and feedback to benefit all. Posting stupid shit and not expecting annoyed responses is unreasonable.

This isn't directed at one particular person, but in general. If people answer your question, then take it as it is. If you're asking something that is ridiculous as chess pieces as ice cream flavors, you're trolling the shit out of women looking to offer insight with patience and understanding.

You guys are killing me right now! I'm in here cackling like a little witch. This isn't directed at one particular person, but YOU...stfu, please lol! Okay, I'm really leaving, I'm not mature enough for this thread.

[spunkarella]

Jul 10, 2015 19:01:32 GMT -5 @smorriso said:

Can I also just add that just because this is a flame free post doesn't give license to stroll in here and post some ridiculous ass questions.

I think people are genuinely trying to give good information and feedback to benefit all. Posting stupid shit and not expecting annoyed responses is unreasonable.

The above isn't directed at one particular person, but in general.

If people answer your question, then take it as it is. If you're asking something that is ridiculous as chess pieces as ice cream flavors, you're trolling the shit out of women looking to offer insight with patience and understanding.

Thank you. This is why we can't have nice things. I really appreciate everyone who has taken the time to respond so thoughtfully. Discussions like this are so rare and so helpful for me. 

[Deleted]

Jul 10, 2015 16:20:00 GMT -5 bugandbibs said:

Jul 10, 2015 11:35:38 GMT -5 @missy1 said:

I wouldn't really call it unacceptable, personally. I just think whoever uses this terms is suppperrrr old and/or outdated.

No, this is unacceptable. The same way calling a black person a negro or colored is unacceptable.

Orientals are things. Asians are people. It's offensive, not outdated. I am a person, not a thing or less than.

Just because it's commonly used in the context of "oriental rug" nowadays doesn't mean it's a word to only describe things. The word technically refers to "Of or relating to the countries of the Orient or their peoples or cultures". Someone asked me on a date once and started with, "Are you Oriental?" I wasn't thinking at the time that this man thought of me as less than a thing. I was thinking, "This is an old and ignorant man." He was seriously like 60... Sure it's offensive; I would not use it ever myself but I'm not putting it in the same category as "chink" or "gook". You're right though, that if it's an offensive term (even though not to me, personally) then it is unacceptable.

[Deleted]

We had a pretty intense discussion at a board meeting last night about racism and prejudice (and the difference between the two). In my area, it's primarily geared towards Native Americans. For those of you who have never been on a Reservation, well... There is a reason that Bobby Kennedy frequently visited the Pine Ridge reservation in South Dakota to talk about the war on poverty. As a white woman in my affluent bubble, I feel like I don't have the tools necessary to properly discuss these issues.

[greycat]

@246baje thank you for this post

Several people recommended reading books to kids. Any specific books I can look for?

Also, I would love suggestions on articles/books about racial bias.

[swank]

Jul 10, 2015 19:15:58 GMT -5 @barefootbarista said:

Jul 10, 2015 19:12:35 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

Side convo. But you have season tix. So do we? Why did I not know this.

I really can't stand Dan Snyder. I will not purchase anymore merchandise, but we are not getting rid of our seats. They are legacy seats. So I guess I am saying I think it is ok to keep the name by continuing to have season tix. I have signed any petition I have seen to have the name changed though.

Ours are legacy as well. My dad usually goes since he is in Richmond, or my brother. But my brother just moved to Charlotte so I'm sure we will just continue to sell most of them-except for Philly or Dallas games.

This is a sidebar but I think you should keep the seats and your views. I think the call for change needs to come from inside the house, so to speak. I think that's why Snyder has been able to skate by thus far with his asinine statements There needs to be more uproar and contempt by the fans and supporters.

[awkwardpenguin]

Jul 10, 2015 21:35:51 GMT -5 greycat said:

Several people recommended reading books to kids. Any specific books I can look for?

Also, I would love suggestions on articles/books about racial bias.

For kids:

Global Babies: www.amazon.com/Global-Babies-Fund-Children/dp/1580891748/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1436582704&sr=1-1&keywords=global+babies

It's Okay to be Different: www.amazon.com/Its-Okay-Different-Todd-Parr/dp/0316043478/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1436583360&sr=1-3&keywords=Todd+parr

All Kinds of People: www.amazon.com/All-Kinds-People-Insight-Editions/dp/1608871606/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1436583456&sr=1-1&keywords=all+kinds+of+people

For adults:

The New Jim Crow: www.amazon.com/New-Jim-Crow-Incarceration-Colorblindness/dp/1595586431/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1436583568&sr=1-1&keywords=the+new+jim+crow

Racism Without Racists: www.amazon.com/Racism-without-Racists-Color-Blind-Persistence/dp/1442220554/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1436583644&sr=1-1&keywords=racism+without+racists

[magpie]

Jul 10, 2015 22:03:30 GMT -5 awkwardpenguin said:

Jul 10, 2015 21:35:51 GMT -5 greycat said:

Several people recommended reading books to kids. Any specific books I can look for?

Also, I would love suggestions on articles/books about racial bias.

For kids:

Global Babies: www.amazon.com/Global-Babies-Fund-Children/dp/1580891748/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1436582704&sr=1-1&keywords=global+babies

Global Babies has been such a hit with my DD!  She's seriously been into that book since she's been developmentally able to see books and still delighted in reading it yesterday at 21 months.  I buy it for everyone as a shower gift.

[glitzy07]

FTR, I don't go around asking people what ethnicity they are. I was asking since we were having a thoughtful discussion and it was a thought that popped into my head. My biracial friend was merely one example.

I have a very close friend, who is white but has a more olive skin tone. She CONSTANTLY gets asked by people "what are you?" and since her parents are both 100% white (and since people phrase the question so poorly) she gets so frustrated with it. I was merely wondering if, from other people's perspective, there was any sort of appropriate way to frame that question. I really appreciate all the thoughtful responses, which all lined up with what I assumed was the answer anyway.

[Deleted]

Jul 10, 2015 19:04:05 GMT -5 sfy said:

Jul 10, 2015 19:01:32 GMT -5 @smorriso said:

Can I also just add that just because this is a flame free post doesn't give license to stroll in here and post some ridiculous ass questions.

I think people are genuinely trying to give good information and feedback to benefit all. Posting stupid shit and not expecting annoyed responses is unreasonable.

This isn't directed at one particular person, but in general. If people answer your question, then take it as it is. If you're asking something that is ridiculous as chess pieces as ice cream flavors, you're trolling the shit out of women looking to offer insight with patience and understanding.

You guys are killing me right now! I'm in here cackling like a little witch. This isn't directed at one particular person, but YOU...stfu, please lol! Okay, I'm really leaving, I'm not mature enough for this thread.

Ok I'm a little tipsy right now and home by myself, so thank you for provided entertainment. I'm dying laughing. People might even be able to hear my cackles through the windows on these load ass Brooklyn streets 

(heart)

[thejackpot]

Jul 10, 2015 21:35:51 GMT -5 greycat said:

@246baje thank you for this post

Several people recommended reading books to kids. Any specific books I can look for?

Also, I would love suggestions on articles/books about racial bias.

I wasn't saying reading books like the books have to deal with race, I simply mean buy books where the people don't look just like you. If you are buying board books don't just buy ones with white characters. Make it natural. My dd is 22 months she has books with little girls/boys that look like her as well as other cultures.

Ex. Please Baby Please- just a regular board book but the baby is brown with curls like her.

[Deleted]

Jul 10, 2015 22:25:23 GMT -5 glitzy07 said:

FTR, I don't go around asking people what ethnicity they are. I was asking since we were having a thoughtful discussion and it was a thought that popped into my head. My biracial friend was merely one example.

I have a very close friend, who is white but has a more olive skin tone. She CONSTANTLY gets asked by people "what are you?" and since her parents are both 100% white (and since people phrase the question so poorly) she gets so frustrated with it. I was merely wondering if, from other people's perspective, there was any sort of appropriate way to frame that question. I really appreciate all the thoughtful responses, which all lined up with what I assumed was the answer anyway.

Obviously everyone is different, but these are my thoughts:

I honestly don't mind too much when people ask me where I'm from. I look Ethiopian and I get asked if I'm either Ethiopian or Eritrean at least 2 times per month, if not more. I honestly don't mind that.

But if I say, no I'm not Ethiopian, please don't then ask me a million more questions asking where I'm from, where my parents are from and have a puzzled look on your face when I keep saying that I'm from America. Or if I say I'm from America, don't say, no really where are you from originally?

That is when I honestly start to feel the rage and want to yell, "don't you know the fucking history of black people and not knowing our history since we were damn slaves." I hate that damn puzzled look like I'm lying about where I'm from.

I'm happy to be American, but as I've gotten older I do wish I knew my ancestry, so it just adds insult to injury when people push the subject. And this does happen often to me, the last time being on Monday on the subway. 

[greycat]

Jul 10, 2015 22:36:44 GMT -5 thejackpot said:

Jul 10, 2015 21:35:51 GMT -5 greycat said:

@246baje thank you for this post

Several people recommended reading books to kids. Any specific books I can look for?

Also, I would love suggestions on articles/books about racial bias.

I wasn't saying reading books like the books have to deal with race, I simply mean buy books where the people don't look just like you. If you are buying board books don't just buy ones with white characters. Make it natural. My dd is 22 months she has books with little girls/boys that look like her as well as other cultures.

Ex. Please Baby Please- just a regular board book but the baby is brown with curls like her.

I wasn't referring to anyone in particular but you bring up an excellent point. DS doesn't have many books with people in them but I will see if I can pick a few that show kids that look different than DS. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Deleted]

Jul 10, 2015 22:56:42 GMT -5 @bluesky said:

Jul 10, 2015 22:53:46 GMT -5 jenny1980 said:

Just to make sure I am understanding: your "legit question" about race is whether it's appropriate to have children call chess pieces vanilla or chocolate? 

I thought it was a big deal the instructor said something so stupid.  I wanted a confirmation (from many) before I proceeded to talk to the owner.  And yes, I questioned my own judgement.  I have black friends who refer to themselves as chocolate (flame away, I'm only telling the truth) and I have white friends who have referred to themselves as vanilla.  I just wanted confirmation the chess instructors were way out of line. 

Sometimes I feel like you live in an alternate reality or something.

[swank]

Jul 10, 2015 23:08:24 GMT -5 @bluesky said:

Jul 10, 2015 23:06:16 GMT -5 page said:

Sometimes I feel like you live in an alternate reality or something.

I've always said I lived a very sheltered life. 

It's like a nuclear bomb sheltered life.

[Deleted]

Jul 10, 2015 22:56:42 GMT -5 @bluesky said:

Jul 10, 2015 22:53:46 GMT -5 jenny1980 said:

Just to make sure I am understanding: your "legit question" about race is whether it's appropriate to have children call chess pieces vanilla or chocolate? 

I thought it was a big deal the instructor said something so stupid.  I wanted a confirmation (from many) before I proceeded to talk to the owner.  And yes, I questioned my own judgement.  I have black friends who refer to themselves as chocolate (flame away, I'm only telling the truth) and I have white friends who have referred to themselves as vanilla.  I just wanted confirmation the chess instructors were way out of line. 

But what are you going to talk to her about?

And what is flameful about a person referring to themselves as chocolate or vanilla?

I just think what the chess instructors said was really really odd and dumb, like dumb as rocks, but not offensive or anything. Chocolate usually refers to something that is brown and last I checked chess pieces are typically black, so where the hell did the chocolate reference come from?

Like honestly it's so stupid that it doesn't even deserve recognition unless you are going to tell their boss to hire people with a higher IQ.  

[Deleted]

Jul 10, 2015 23:34:29 GMT -5 @bunnybean said:

Another legit LOL

[SJ]

Anyone who thinks @bluesky is trolling hasn't being paying attention for the last decade or so.

Either she is real or she is the most consistent troll in the history of the universe.

[smock]

Calling chess pieces chocolate and vanilla isn't offensive, it's just stupid.