Post by underwaterrhymes on Jan 25, 2016 15:46:51 GMT -5
I'm working on about twelve hours of sleep over the past five days, so I found it hard to weed through all of the WOT. And I agree that @kirkette came across as passionate and in some cases very challenging to follow. But her message is right.
If you are white, you have experienced privilege in the workplace, in the education system, and in everyday life.
If you are white, you have undoubtedly committed microagressions.
If you are white, you will never be able to completely understand what it is like to be a person of color.
If you are white, you have benefitted from racism.
It's okay if it makes you uncomfortable. What is not okay is to deny the validity of this or to not make any effort to lift your head out of your bubble and recognize just what a racist climate we live in.
I'm working on about twelve hours of sleep over the past five days, so I found it hard to weed through all of the WOT. And I agree that @kirkette came across as passionate and in some cases very challenging to follow. But her message is right.
If you are white, you have experienced privilege in the workplace, in the education system, and in everyday life.
If you are white, you have undoubtedly committed microagressions.
If you are white, you will never be able to completely understand what it is like to be a person of color.
If you are white, you have benefitted from racism.
It's okay if it makes you uncomfortable. What is not okay is to deny the validity of this or to not make any effort to lift your head out of your bubble and recognize just what a racist climate we live in.
So what do we do about it? I have read a lot on here about privilege and bubbles, but I'm not really sure where to go after acknowledging mine. Hopefully this doesn't come off as snarky, because I am being sincere.
Well, first, I'm also white (as you know) so it's still a learning process for me, too.
But the biggest thing you can do is to first never deny that what a person of color tells you about their day-to-day experiences is true or valid.
Also, being an advocate is huge. When someone else exhibits racism (intentional or otherwise) speak up. White people tend to hear it better from other white people.
Read a lot about the topic. CE&P has a great thread with books and documentaries they've recommended on intersectional feminism, racism, and black history, but Ta Nahesi Coates and Tim Wise are great places to start. (And Tim Wise had a really great webcast that sheds light on this subject here:)
But really, we are a long way away from being a society that is not racist. Listening and learning are great beginnings, but it's going to take a lot more than that to get there. And that's the part where I struggle because we are just so far off.
Post by underwaterrhymes on Jan 25, 2016 16:14:39 GMT -5
Also, I think one of the ways in which racism hides is when people will try deny their own racism or privilege by saying, "I don't see color!"
Bullshit. Of course you do. We all do and we all should.
We do not want to teach colorblindness to our children because that denies the reality that so many people of color experience. We want to teach them to value and appreciate all people, but that is a very different thing.
Post by sewpinkgal on Jan 25, 2016 17:22:23 GMT -5
I lurk more than anything these days, but I saw the tag and had to pop in to say dinner on Friday was fabulous!
I have also waded through the vast majority of the 16 pages and I think that Kirkette has made some very valid points, the WOTs just made them hard to decipher. I really appreciate race discussions on GBCN and hope they continue, even if they get uncomfortable and murky sometimes.
Isn't part of the problem that the "open mindedness" only extends to certain people. I think (not you) people have trouble seeing what people of a different SES are saying, let alone a different race. A board full of highly educated people some of whom think they can't be wrong, because they are educated. I'm not talking about just this thread. I see a lot of right fighting going on. People don't like to be wrong.
Am I off base?
Nope I think you are exactly right. I think the smarter a person is in general, the harder it is to convince them they are wrong about something.
I think you are right on that- open mindedness, and the ability to be able to admit you are/might be wrong, are part of that discussion.
I'm liking shit all over the place here. What I can do as a white person is be an ally. Listen to the experiences of POC and accept that what they are saying is truth, even if it hurts. Read all I can. Raise my kids (and my students) to be better than the current generation. Stand up and say something when I see micro (and macro...) aggressions, even if it's hard and scary and uncomfortable. And know when to step back and let POC take the lead too.
I've got a long way to go, but I wanted to say that I have appreciated the race conversations here and on CEP. I'm learning a lot.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
If anyone wants to teach their young kids about black history (really, American history), I highly recommend any Andrea Davis Pinkney book. IIRC, the Duke Ellington and Ella Fitzgerald books come with CDs, which my kids loved.
I haven't been around much, but I've been trying to keep up. This thread has been all over the place, but it's definitely helped me understand a bit more about the problem. I appreciate everyone chiming and explaining why things are an issue (i.e. "I don't feel like talking about this now" when that is seemingly never an option for a POC, etc) and I am going to do my best to keep the learning going.
DD is in a very mixed class at school. Of the 16 kids, maybe 5 are white and I love it. She is gaining a lot of experiences and knowledge that I wasn't given when I went to a predominantly white Catholic school. I really want to cultivate the learning so she can be an ally for POC. I know it was much harder to do it myself when I was older and suddenly surrounded by a large variety of races and religions.
Can someone define micro aggressions? I'm getting the gist of it by context clues and some examples mentioned here, but would appreciate a definition by someone more knowledgeable about it. I'm sure I don't have a full picture based on what I've gathered so far.
Also I'm presuming macro aggressions are overt racist comments/actions? Are these by definition intentional?
Can someone define micro aggressions? I'm getting the gist of it by context clues and some examples mentioned here, but would appreciate a definition by someone more knowledgeable about it. I'm sure I don't have a full picture based on what I've gathered so far.
Also I'm presuming macro aggressions are overt racist comments/actions? Are these by definition intentional?
I'm not an expert but I was looking this up too, I found this to be helpful.
Can someone define micro aggressions? I'm getting the gist of it by context clues and some examples mentioned here, but would appreciate a definition by someone more knowledgeable about it. I'm sure I don't have a full picture based on what I've gathered so far.
Also I'm presuming macro aggressions are overt racist comments/actions? Are these by definition intentional?
I'm not an expert but I was looking this up too, I found this to be helpful.
Also, I think one of the ways in which racism hides is when people will try deny their own racism or privilege by saying, "I don't see color!"
Bullshit. Of course you do. We all do and we all should.
We do not want to teach colorblindness to our children because that denies the reality that so many people of color experience. We want to teach them to value and appreciate all people, but that is a very different thing.
Yes, and of course this can be hard for our generation to wrap our heads around because we (or at least I?) grew up learning that colorblindness was what we should aspire to.
The biggest eye opener for me was when I realized (and have come to realize even more by reading threads on the GBCN boards over the years) that colorblind is not what we should be aiming to teach our children. At least not in the world we live in today.
I can relate to the constant need to "educate" people and how exhausting it is. In my case its not because of skin color, but religion and being Middle Eastern. Sometimes I don't bother. Sometimes I am calm and have discussions. Sometimes I go off and rage. Depends on the situation and who is speaking the ignorance.
This question has been a part of my life since I was 5 (that I remember).
I learned very quickly, by the time I entered the second grade, to respond back with: Well, what are /you/? And shred them when they said they were 'American'. It was a defense mechanism.
I liked this out of acknowledgement for your response, but I'm sorry you get that question so much.