So, are we talking about that MMM thread..

[Deleted]

I want to echo what miso said. Well, actually, I want to say a few things.

One, I am legit concerned about Kirkette and some of the things she has posted, and I don't think the posts to @booby are defensible at all. But, Kirkette has been a member here for a long time, a lot of us have met her IRL, she has been in my home and met my entire family, and I promise, she is not a threat. That doesn't mean her posts to @booby are not threatening, or that I wouldn't be concerned if I were Pinot and didn't know her, but as someone who does know her, she isn't going to hurt anyone. I think there is probably an explanation for why she is posting like this, and again, I would ask that people please drop it, cut her some slack for awhile, and let her regroup. Please, do it out of the kindness of your heart for someone who has been a member here for a long time and is obviously going through something that has caused a change of approach.

Two, I almost don't want to post this because I don't want to contribute to the debate, but I absolutely believe and have never doubted Kirkette's background. She was a lovely guest at my house, her manners were impeccable, and her posture was perfect.. I know that it sounds weird to defend background based on posture, but I am not saying she just has good posture, I mean that 9 months pregnant, at a party, she was standing as ramrod straight as a soldier, and when she sat, it was perched on the end of a couch like the queen of England. She wasn't showing off and couldn't have known anyone was even paying attention, but that was her default even when hugely pregnant. That's not something you can fake, and it is enough IMO to corroborate the other things she has posted here. And as for the house, well, I'll just say I remember being accused of lying because I lived in a dated townhouse when I was first married. When the Olds control the money, you live in the housing the Olds already own, or consider to be appropriate for some other reason.

[sonrisa]

Jan 26, 2016 13:26:57 GMT -5 05heel said:

Jan 26, 2016 13:08:30 GMT -5 mofongo said:

So, to get this straight, people are truly ok with kirkette's insane, threatening post to booby?

Oh yes.  Definitely.

ANYWAY.  What I'm saying is that I can 100% understand how intensely angry Kirkette is.  I give not a single fuck if you don't get it, but enough with all the surprise and concern.  Just be glad you don't understand and move along.  I'm happy for you!  And since people are so literal...no, I'm not down with threats.  If I were, I'd make them myself.  I don't because it's not right. (God, this is painful.  Lol. )  And interestingly enough, I've found it very easy to avoid threats of harm from internet strangers.  Am I some kind of magical wizard, or do I just have a smidge of common sense?  Deep thoughts.

I can understand why kirkette is as angry as she is. As I mentioned on page 4 or so, I've seen kirkette labeled crazy for just talking about race. And we all know I've thought booby cruel before. What concerned me was her fear. Her response sounded like she genuinely fears booby. That surprised me.

And frankly I'm also annoyed that by upping the ante to threats, most posters are going to remember these discussions as the time kirkette went crazy and threatened booby. They aren't going to remember the underlying aggressions or question what role racism and micro aggressions play in their interactions or the interactions they see. 

I made a point of staying quiet specifically because I didn't want people to dismiss very real issues as "Well, that's sonrisa. She and booby are BEC." And now that is exactly what will happen. Just swap sonrisa for kirkette. 

[Deleted]

Huh.

[cajunmom]

Jan 26, 2016 13:53:09 GMT -5 miso said:

Ugh. I said I wasn't going to get involved.

But I really want to AW my kid because she is two today, and I will look like I'm looking the other way if I start that AW thread without addressing this elephant thread in the room, right? So here I am.

I've "known" @booby for years. Years! There is nothing about her that is remotely threatening or cruel. Occasional Mean Girls behavior? Of course. I can't judge that. I am guilty of that myself occasionally. And let's be serious -- we are all on ML. @booby is here for shits and giggles just like the rest of us. She loves her kid. She loves her family and friends. She loves celebrity gossip. A lot of us have this in common.

@kirkette is my IRL friend. We had tacos together Friday night! She came to my baby shower and my kid's first birthday. She has been to my house. While I cannot reconcile her walls of text with her real-life personality, I can attest that she is an otherwise kind person, and I cannot imagine that she would harm anybody. I know this probably doesn't sound very convincing, given the nature of her most recent posts. I can't speak to that. All I can say is that we had a grand old time at dinner recently, and she was perfectly normal.

I hope @booby does not GBCGBCN. That would be a huge loss for our community.

And I hope @kirkette can get her thoughts across without other posters thinking she is off her rocker. I just don't think it's possible for a person who was charming and lovely on Friday to be crazy just days later.

Now go tell me how cute my little two-year-old is.

As her IRL friend, isn't that worrisome to you?

She seems very confident and proud about the fact that she can and has caused harm to people in the past that bothered her...maybe not physical, but harm nonetheless. 

[fryjack2]

I'm not seeing the humor in chickens GIFs or threat detectors.

Since I contributed to this thread when I wasn't originally going to (because I tend to read and absorb when POC speak about things I can never really know) I'd like to add that the race points Kirkette (and others ) made were valid and I agree with them.

I can also understand having enough and not caring anymore about being an educator or being kind. But I don't understand threats or the unnecessary details added to posts.

[intentionalsnarkshark]

I'm sorry. I should have kept my lame joke out of the mix. I felt instant regret after posting it.

[miniroller]

Just wanted to add that I had no idea what was going on here when I posted that superfluous article a couple hrs ago. I know it's not like a declared serious day on ML or anything (miso, I'm hittin' your thread up in a second;)). Nonetheless, I just wanted to add that my (mostly belated) likes in this thread are genuine, & I really appreciate a couple of points that have been made, just stated so much better than I could have made them.

[agnes]

Jan 26, 2016 14:08:25 GMT -5 05heel said:

I wonder if she included all of those points about her power and wealth because these are things that Booby has specifically tried to throw in her face? Like, check the resume and continue to mock me at your own risk type of thing. Again, not the best way (obviously), but I can just empathize so much with her anger. And I don't think Booby realized how her mocking was being received, even though I maintain that it makes zero sense to come after anyone who you think may be nuts. This is why I tell folks to kiss my entire ass at the slightest provocation. Trying to take the high road gets you nowhere fast.

BINGO!  

[Deleted]

1234FIF! lol, I actually thought about how I was going to word that. It seemed a tad out of touch and I didn't want the tone to read "I'm cool with black people because I know about Nas." **blonde hair flip**, because ya know, plank in your own eye, I've got a lot to learn too and take away from the point.

[Deleted]

Well said.

And ditto 05heel .

When people keep pushing people's buttons, this is what happens. This is not the first time this has happened (not necessarily race related). Even booby herself said she's been picking at kirkette's posts recently. I've felt it before. 

Shit gets old fast. People deal with it differently. Some stay quit, some gbcn, some speak their mind. 

The mean girl schtick, plus race issues aren't funny. At the end of the day, some of these issues do affect people. 

[Deleted]

I am so sorry @kirkette

[LLL]

I'm sorry you're struggling both online and IRL. 

[Deleted]

I'm sorry that that happened to Kirlette. I get the CHILLS when I think about that story.

[scottyderp]

I learned some things in these posts and on MMM. Thank you. Not about nesties' behavior, but about how people feel in life. Things that I don't know, or think about, or have to think about. It's good to read, as sad as it has made people. Because some of us are tellers, and we'll tell others, and they'll tell people. Because it isn't right, and isn't fair.

I think a lot of you are really cool.

[miniroller]

I hope this can become/ will be a good, safe place for you again @kirkette

[bronxgirl]

Jan 26, 2016 15:12:52 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Jan 26, 2016 15:11:31 GMT -5 miniroller said:

I hope this can become/ will be a good, safe place for you again @kirkette

I know it will. I know people are listening now. I really wasn't sure before today.

It can't be easy to talk about this stuff and put yourself in such a vulnerable position. I really admire your strength and am mad and sad for you that you're in this spot. You're fighting the good fight for yourself and your girls. I hope soon you can get to the point where you don't have to fight and can just relax a bit.  As much as I *think* I'm aware of my privelege, your most recent post is eye-opening about how much you, and now your girls, have had to deal with/ are dealing with that is so beyond the general experience of being a white person in the U.S.  Hopefully now we can all cut the bullshit and start to make this a more welcoming place.  Hugs, friend.

[themoneytree]

Jan 26, 2016 15:18:29 GMT -5 @tambcat said:

I didn't hear the Sin Shackles story, but that sounds horrible, and I am sorry. I worry about J's bubbliness and innocence being stamped out by society, and I can't imagine having to worry about racial prejudices on top of general assholishness.

I don't know what this was about either, but just the term 'sin shackles' is enough to make my blood run cold. : (

[scottyderp]

Jan 26, 2016 15:12:52 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

Jan 26, 2016 15:11:31 GMT -5 miniroller said:

I hope this can become/ will be a good, safe place for you again @kirkette

I know it will. I know people are listening now. I really wasn't sure before today.

Without passion, the world is bleak.  I don't want you to have to feel passionate about something so painful.

I'm Team You when it comes to how you choose to express your feelings.  I don't think that there's anything wrong with saying a lot, because it means a lot to you. 

I think it's Lame to call people out as crazy, in general.  I consider it unkind (I've called two nesties crazy--stabintheneck and a lady who made up her entire life and skipped out on gtgs.).  There's nothing about you that is crazy.  Stay passionate.  Be you!  I've been called crazy and unhinged many times on The Nest and here.  I'm neither.  I've been shamed a million times.  Those aren't the people for you.  That's okay, you know that already. 

You wrote such nice things to me that one day, and others.  Your heart is big, I can tell.  I love big hearts.

[trafficgirl]

I haven't chimed in to any of this until now because I've been taking so much in and processing how my world is and how that is not the same world for others.

I will say that my eyes are much more open than before reading any of the MMM thread or this one. I also have not heard the Sin Shackles story and the description chills my blood, truly. I can't even imagine, and I know that's part of the problem.

[elleblue]

{{{@kirkette}}} I can only imagine how exhausting it is to deal with the constant microagressions. And I can just picture the irl ones that occur because people think you're "one of them" or "one of the good ones"* because of some of the privilege you do enjoy, not realizing how offensive and awful they're acting. I'm sorry. I wish we could flip a switch and enlighten people in an instant. I'm attempting to do better in my own life now that I know better, and I see more of that around me, but progress is indeed slow moving.



*just typing that out made me feel sick

[miso]

Jan 26, 2016 14:27:06 GMT -5 cajunmom said:

Jan 26, 2016 13:53:09 GMT -5 miso said:

Ugh. I said I wasn't going to get involved.

But I really want to AW my kid because she is two today, and I will look like I'm looking the other way if I start that AW thread without addressing this elephant thread in the room, right? So here I am.

I've "known" @booby for years. Years! There is nothing about her that is remotely threatening or cruel. Occasional Mean Girls behavior? Of course. I can't judge that. I am guilty of that myself occasionally. And let's be serious -- we are all on ML. @booby is here for shits and giggles just like the rest of us. She loves her kid. She loves her family and friends. She loves celebrity gossip. A lot of us have this in common.

@kirkette is my IRL friend. We had tacos together Friday night! She came to my baby shower and my kid's first birthday. She has been to my house. While I cannot reconcile her walls of text with her real-life personality, I can attest that she is an otherwise kind person, and I cannot imagine that she would harm anybody. I know this probably doesn't sound very convincing, given the nature of her most recent posts. I can't speak to that. All I can say is that we had a grand old time at dinner recently, and she was perfectly normal.

I hope @booby does not GBCGBCN. That would be a huge loss for our community.

And I hope @kirkette can get her thoughts across without other posters thinking she is off her rocker. I just don't think it's possible for a person who was charming and lovely on Friday to be crazy just days later.

Now go tell me how cute my little two-year-old is.

As her IRL friend, isn't that worrisome to you?

She seems very confident and proud about the fact that she can and has caused harm to people in the past that bothered her...maybe not physical, but harm nonetheless. 

Huh? Worrisome? Are you trying to get a rise out of me? Are you trying to get me to call my friend nuts?

I'm not going to do that because she's not nuts.

Look. The way @kirkette expresses herself is not necessarily the way I choose to express myself or others may choose to express themselves.

But it doesn't make her crazy.

The point I'm making is the fact that she was PERFECTLY NORMAL on Friday means she's highly likely still perfectly normal right this moment.

We all have different styles. I tend to be concise. @koko has a lock on caps. scottyderp weaves wonderful prose out of even mundane moments.

Passion presents in different ways. We all have our triggers. We all have our moments.

Doesn't make us crazy.

[kevin arnold]

I'm sorry, @kirkette . That incident with your child was traumatizing and painful. I want you to know that you are being heard, even if many of us don't or can't understand where the anger has come from. I'm trying harder to hear that, understand more, and empathize.

[FastHands]

@kirkette, I think a good chunk of people here truly understand your anger (not in a "I know exactly what that's like" way for most of us, but at least in an, "I can understand where she's coming from" sense), even without the really awful specifics you shared. It's unfortunate, and it is a burden that I think is not that difficult to see (when you open your eyes to it), but I'm sure it's impossible to fully grasp without bearing it personally.

That said, however, I still think you crossed a line with the threats. Maybe your comment about editing your rage was meant to address that, I'm not sure. You get how that leaves people feeling pretty freaking uncomfortable, right?

[scottyderp]

Jan 26, 2016 15:36:27 GMT -5 elleblue said:

{{{@kirkette }}} I can only imagine how exhausting it is to deal with the constant microagressions. And I can just picture the irl ones that occur because people think you're "one of them" or "one of the good ones"* because of some of the privilege you do enjoy, not realizing how offensive and awful they're acting. I'm sorry. I wish we could flip a switch and enlighten people in an instant. I'm attempting to do better in my own life now that I know better, and I see more of that around me, but progress is indeed slow moving.



*just typing that out made me feel sick

I genuinely want to know when I'm contributing to microaggressions.  I have embarrassed myself deeply in the past, on here.  In college, I loved this woman's hair, who was a friend, and I'd touch her braids.  I cringe.  She was so nice, but what if it royally pissed her off.  I am seriously thankful for the nest in this way.

[annieblah]

I am very glad pepole are listening. I think this was eye-opening for many here, as per the apologies, and if you don't see it,well, f off.

[annieblah]

Jan 26, 2016 15:41:44 GMT -5 FastHands said:

@kirkette, I think a good chunk of people here truly understand your anger (not in a "I know exactly what that's like" way for most of us, but at least in an, "I can understand where she's coming from" sense), even without the really awful specifics you shared. It's unfortunate, and it is a burden that I think is not that difficult to see (when you open your eyes to it), but I'm sure it's impossible to fully grasp without bearing it personally.

That said, however, I still think you crossed a line with the threats. Maybe your comment about editing your rage was meant to address that, I'm not sure. You get how that leaves people feeling pretty freaking uncomfortable, right?

No.

[cajunmom]

Jan 26, 2016 15:41:35 GMT -5 miso said:

Jan 26, 2016 14:27:06 GMT -5 cajunmom said:

Huh? Worrisome? Are you trying to get a rise out of me? Are you trying to get me to call my friend nuts?

I'm not going to do that because she's not nuts.

Look. The way @kirkette expresses herself is not necessarily the way I choose to express myself or others may choose to express themselves.

But it doesn't make her crazy.

The point I'm making is the fact that she was PERFECTLY NORMAL on Friday means she's highly likely still perfectly normal right this moment.

We all have different styles. I tend to be concise. @koko has a lock on caps. scottyderp weaves wonderful prose out of even mundane moments.

Passion presents in different ways. We all have our triggers. We all have our moments.

Doesn't make us crazy.

Trying to get a rise out of you? Not at all. I never once said that anyone was nuts, or crazy.

I only asked what I did b/c for myself, if I was good friends with someone from here IRL and then there was a fairly quick shift in the way that they were behaving in some aspect I would be worried, and talk to them off board just to make sure things were okay. 

Maybe a lot of us can not be so quick to jump to conclusions, or think the worst about people.

[miso]

Jan 26, 2016 16:12:46 GMT -5 cajunmom said:

Jan 26, 2016 15:41:35 GMT -5 miso said:

Huh? Worrisome? Are you trying to get a rise out of me? Are you trying to get me to call my friend nuts?

I'm not going to do that because she's not nuts.

Look. The way @kirkette expresses herself is not necessarily the way I choose to express myself or others may choose to express themselves.

But it doesn't make her crazy.

The point I'm making is the fact that she was PERFECTLY NORMAL on Friday means she's highly likely still perfectly normal right this moment.

We all have different styles. I tend to be concise. @koko has a lock on caps. scottyderp weaves wonderful prose out of even mundane moments.

Passion presents in different ways. We all have our triggers. We all have our moments.

Doesn't make us crazy.

Trying to get a rise out of you? Not at all. I never once said that anyone was nuts, or crazy.

I only asked what I did b/c for myself, if I was good friends with someone from here IRL and then there was a fairly quick shift in the way that they were behaving in some aspect I would be worried, and talk to them off board just to make sure things were okay. 

Maybe a lot of us can not be so quick to jump to conclusions, or think the worst about people.

Ok, you keep telling yourself that.

I'm not stupid. "Being worried" is little more than a euphemistic way of saying "thinking she's crazy" here.

So, no, I'm not worried.

[cajunmom]

Oh for fuck's sake.

[miso]

Jan 26, 2016 16:16:53 GMT -5 cajunmom said:

Oh for fuck's sake.

Come at me, bro.